Freud and Jung and Their Secret Affairs
Khalid Sohail June 16, 2008
#88 Posted by freethinker on June 24, 2008 10:43:49 am
Dear S.R.: Post #86
Thanks for your excellent and timely post. The most repulsive and abusive interactors at Chowk are those who proclaim to be the so-called defenders of their respective faith. No religion teaches you to be abusive.
One can make a reasonable point without being unnecessarily abusive and offensive. I do not understand why the Chowk management allows such abusive interacts and does not filter them (even after they get posted). They should at least make sure that the interactors adhere to the Chowk guidelines. Otherwise what good do these guidelines serve?
People like you should express their views more often and as assertively as you have done. With regards,
Mohammad Gill
Thanks for your excellent and timely post. The most repulsive and abusive interactors at Chowk are those who proclaim to be the so-called defenders of their respective faith. No religion teaches you to be abusive.
One can make a reasonable point without being unnecessarily abusive and offensive. I do not understand why the Chowk management allows such abusive interacts and does not filter them (even after they get posted). They should at least make sure that the interactors adhere to the Chowk guidelines. Otherwise what good do these guidelines serve?
People like you should express their views more often and as assertively as you have done. With regards,
Mohammad Gill
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#87 Posted by drsohail on June 24, 2008 7:47:02 am
Re: # 86
dear SR..i fully agree with you that mutual respect is the foundation of a genuine dialogue that we are trying to create on chowk.
sincerely sohail
dear SR..i fully agree with you that mutual respect is the foundation of a genuine dialogue that we are trying to create on chowk.
sincerely sohail
#86 Posted by SR on June 23, 2008 8:47:57 pm
Re: # 80 Tahir --- uncouth and crass
Dear Tahir
I am ashamed of you. The articulate, intelligent and sensitive Tahir that I thought I had first seen on Chowk was a breath of fresh air. But how wrong you have proved me. You are as bad as Masadi. He too, has valid things to say at times but many people ignore him (I certainly do) because he comes across as a frustrated raving mad looney when he rants and wails, insulting others and calling them names when they disagree with him. You are doing the same, as do some others who are supposedly followers of the Arabian Prophet that they claim was the most modest and kind spoken man. But a tree is know by its fruits. Is this the image you want to project about your faith and its founder? If that is the case you do your own cause a huge disservice.
You and your kind disgust others and if you continue there will be no one left who will lend an attentive ear to your preechings. And you shall have been the instrument of defeating your own point of view in a world of competing ideas and ideologies.
Be decent in your postings at least, even if it does not come naturally. It might do your cause some good.
...SR
Dear Tahir
I am ashamed of you. The articulate, intelligent and sensitive Tahir that I thought I had first seen on Chowk was a breath of fresh air. But how wrong you have proved me. You are as bad as Masadi. He too, has valid things to say at times but many people ignore him (I certainly do) because he comes across as a frustrated raving mad looney when he rants and wails, insulting others and calling them names when they disagree with him. You are doing the same, as do some others who are supposedly followers of the Arabian Prophet that they claim was the most modest and kind spoken man. But a tree is know by its fruits. Is this the image you want to project about your faith and its founder? If that is the case you do your own cause a huge disservice.
You and your kind disgust others and if you continue there will be no one left who will lend an attentive ear to your preechings. And you shall have been the instrument of defeating your own point of view in a world of competing ideas and ideologies.
Be decent in your postings at least, even if it does not come naturally. It might do your cause some good.
...SR
#85 Posted by Shah2 on June 23, 2008 5:05:28 pm
Due to open door policy muslim have rejoicingly admitted in ther strategic inner circle jews ,hindus aethist deviant mirzaee aga as muslim.Laddu is correct here you can be christian like con artist Bobby Jindal and REMAIN hindu (spiritual ).I believe Hindu named Muslim like Chema than Persian named anybody .Of course he is Aethist
#84 Posted by akcheema on June 23, 2008 3:56:29 pm
Re: # 83; sorry
instead of Tahir sahib, I should have written "Tahir...the Asadite".
Will be careful in the future
Regards
instead of Tahir sahib, I should have written "Tahir...the Asadite".
Will be careful in the future
Regards
#83 Posted by akcheema on June 23, 2008 3:52:15 pm
Re: # 80; Tahir sahib
[[Before each one of us BELIEVED and then practised God's religion, what was he if not an unbeliever]]
I thought according to your mythology every human being was a "born muslim" and it is the parents and environment that changed them to something else??
I'll reply to the rest of your post later.
Regards
[[Before each one of us BELIEVED and then practised God's religion, what was he if not an unbeliever]]
I thought according to your mythology every human being was a "born muslim" and it is the parents and environment that changed them to something else??
I'll reply to the rest of your post later.
Regards
#82 Posted by drsohail on June 23, 2008 1:57:45 pm
Re: # 81
Dear Charlie...you are right. It is partly because Freud had a secular and Jung had a spiritual perspective and blurred borders between science and religion. On the other hand I feel Jung contributed more in personality theories (for example the concepts of introverts and extraverts)that is a great contribution to human psychology....sincerely sohail
Dear Charlie...you are right. It is partly because Freud had a secular and Jung had a spiritual perspective and blurred borders between science and religion. On the other hand I feel Jung contributed more in personality theories (for example the concepts of introverts and extraverts)that is a great contribution to human psychology....sincerely sohail
#81 Posted by Charlie on June 23, 2008 1:29:16 pm
Dear Dr Sohail,
As always, it was an excellent read... Very simple and easy to understand even for the ones who have no knowledge of ABC of psychology....
Personally, I think that you are more influenced by Freud than Jung. Is it true?
Keep the good work up...
As always, it was an excellent read... Very simple and easy to understand even for the ones who have no knowledge of ABC of psychology....
Personally, I think that you are more influenced by Freud than Jung. Is it true?
Keep the good work up...
#80 Posted by tahir on June 23, 2008 7:12:18 am
Re: # 78 FINAL NOTE TO DuNggar Daktar Cheema:
May Allah deal with you directly and in a manner that appropriately punishes your warped interpretations about a great scholar of Islam. Just read his autobiography and bury yourself in sand. Since you had poor schooling to begin with, Dr. Asad's good English will trip you.
Have you read his humble introduction and the recently added foreword in the latest print? Hang your head in shame when you do.
Oye cheemaya, if you wish to believe in contradictory (with one another AND to the Qur'an), insulting, and strange tales, that's your business. The least I can do is to first ask you to walk the path (which you pretend to walk), and then seriously sit and compare this great work with others translations. But I guess you're too buy supporting Q-cumbers, sufis, and other perverts.
And may Allah deal with you for saying:"Asad wrote a book called "message of the Quran" in the English language"
God curse you, Asad's work is a translation+detailed explanation+dictionary+comparison, all rolled into one. His translation of Bukhari was consumed by the riots of 1947 in Lahore (he lived in Model Town!) after which he understood that it was worthwhile to turn his attention to God's own Word.
"He perhaps had no intention of this but as these things evolve, started an almost new heresy within Islam."
Keep your silly imagination locked up or seek help in Toronto!
"Hence his book was banned in the Kingdom (Islamdon) of Saudi Arabia"
Because the current rip-off (of Marmaduke Pickthall) translation uses double parenthesis and quotes page-long ahadith which have absolutely no link with the Arabic text, and does not always explain things to a layman! Although he knew their kings intimately, the KSA (Islam does not permit hereditary royalty) will never permit Asad because people will wake up to facts. A translation must not be solely judged on whether it is banned in KSA. Abdallah Yusuf Ali's version is now disallowed in KSA. So?
Look you foolish doctor, you're making me repeat things! But guess what, I know what I'm talking about, while you pretend, just like MGAQ did! I love my faith and what God says; for you this is drudgery, but for me it is a labour of love for Him! See the difference?
In 1200 years, nobody stood up to truly re-analyse or sift through this placed-on-a-pedestal ahadith literature; it is NOW that scholars are beginning to do that. Within our lifetimes, you will see that some good will come out of this re-search.
I still maintain, after having compared and compiled an index (by no means complete), that the ahadith ammunition stockpile has numerous spent cartridges in it! And you insist on firing them to kill the devil in you. It JUST WOULD NOT WORK! Try the real thing kid.
Who on earth are YOU to clarify my position to Naqs-Bandit; are you my secretary or a personal biographer?
The painful research of a man who saw the material emptiness of western civilisation cannot be so easly disregarded simply because YOU have chosen to do so. And just because his translation is not available at the round-the-corner 'parchoon ki dukaan' does not mean it carries no value for those who wish to be guided.
God's Word (Qur'an) indeed is what counts. Don't try and spin your cobweb around my statements. Your web is the frailest of all structures!
You've bragged about meeting Dr. Asad. I don't have the means to verify your assertions. How can I believe a Bradford brat who insults God's religion in one form or another or joins the jeering crowd when it ridicules Islam?
By bringing up the topic of Dr. Asad's Jewish ancestory, you're being more wicked than the kuffar-e-Makkah! Before each one of us BELIEVED and then practised God's religion, what was he if not an unbeliever or a Muslim by name only? The greatest enemies of faith have sometimes converted to fortify it; the examples are numerous. Why don't you stand up and be counted too?
Go drown yourself in the sea of ahadith for all I care; I'm too busy solving puzzles. I must do Divine classwork now.
You cannot wish me away; now get lost cheemaya.
May Allah deal with you directly and in a manner that appropriately punishes your warped interpretations about a great scholar of Islam. Just read his autobiography and bury yourself in sand. Since you had poor schooling to begin with, Dr. Asad's good English will trip you.
Have you read his humble introduction and the recently added foreword in the latest print? Hang your head in shame when you do.
Oye cheemaya, if you wish to believe in contradictory (with one another AND to the Qur'an), insulting, and strange tales, that's your business. The least I can do is to first ask you to walk the path (which you pretend to walk), and then seriously sit and compare this great work with others translations. But I guess you're too buy supporting Q-cumbers, sufis, and other perverts.
And may Allah deal with you for saying:"Asad wrote a book called "message of the Quran" in the English language"
God curse you, Asad's work is a translation+detailed explanation+dictionary+comparison, all rolled into one. His translation of Bukhari was consumed by the riots of 1947 in Lahore (he lived in Model Town!) after which he understood that it was worthwhile to turn his attention to God's own Word.
"He perhaps had no intention of this but as these things evolve, started an almost new heresy within Islam."
Keep your silly imagination locked up or seek help in Toronto!
"Hence his book was banned in the Kingdom (Islamdon) of Saudi Arabia"
Because the current rip-off (of Marmaduke Pickthall) translation uses double parenthesis and quotes page-long ahadith which have absolutely no link with the Arabic text, and does not always explain things to a layman! Although he knew their kings intimately, the KSA (Islam does not permit hereditary royalty) will never permit Asad because people will wake up to facts. A translation must not be solely judged on whether it is banned in KSA. Abdallah Yusuf Ali's version is now disallowed in KSA. So?
Look you foolish doctor, you're making me repeat things! But guess what, I know what I'm talking about, while you pretend, just like MGAQ did! I love my faith and what God says; for you this is drudgery, but for me it is a labour of love for Him! See the difference?
In 1200 years, nobody stood up to truly re-analyse or sift through this placed-on-a-pedestal ahadith literature; it is NOW that scholars are beginning to do that. Within our lifetimes, you will see that some good will come out of this re-search.
I still maintain, after having compared and compiled an index (by no means complete), that the ahadith ammunition stockpile has numerous spent cartridges in it! And you insist on firing them to kill the devil in you. It JUST WOULD NOT WORK! Try the real thing kid.
Who on earth are YOU to clarify my position to Naqs-Bandit; are you my secretary or a personal biographer?
The painful research of a man who saw the material emptiness of western civilisation cannot be so easly disregarded simply because YOU have chosen to do so. And just because his translation is not available at the round-the-corner 'parchoon ki dukaan' does not mean it carries no value for those who wish to be guided.
God's Word (Qur'an) indeed is what counts. Don't try and spin your cobweb around my statements. Your web is the frailest of all structures!
You've bragged about meeting Dr. Asad. I don't have the means to verify your assertions. How can I believe a Bradford brat who insults God's religion in one form or another or joins the jeering crowd when it ridicules Islam?
By bringing up the topic of Dr. Asad's Jewish ancestory, you're being more wicked than the kuffar-e-Makkah! Before each one of us BELIEVED and then practised God's religion, what was he if not an unbeliever or a Muslim by name only? The greatest enemies of faith have sometimes converted to fortify it; the examples are numerous. Why don't you stand up and be counted too?
Go drown yourself in the sea of ahadith for all I care; I'm too busy solving puzzles. I must do Divine classwork now.
You cannot wish me away; now get lost cheemaya.
#79 Posted by akcheema on June 22, 2008 4:56:12 pm
Re: # 75; Tahir mian,
Post # 78 is very much for your attention and response as well. (I have read the book you refer to ad nauseum!...perhaps a long time before you even discovered it). Like I said to you before, I met up with Mr Asad in Spain with my father when I was a lad and he was 90 I think!
Post # 78 is very much for your attention and response as well. (I have read the book you refer to ad nauseum!...perhaps a long time before you even discovered it). Like I said to you before, I met up with Mr Asad in Spain with my father when I was a lad and he was 90 I think!
#78 Posted by akcheema on June 22, 2008 4:53:29 pm
Re: # 73; naqshbandi sahib (Cc: Tahir Gul Hasan...the Asadite),
I see your distress and it pains me sir. I'd tell you a couple of very short stories to make the point I am going to make and it'd also clarify the position and status of your interlocutor in # 73.
Once upon a time in a place called Qadian, a man called Mirza Ghulam Ahmed was born (13th Feb, 1835 to be precise). Whilst growing up, he became increasingly dis-enchanted with the faith of his ancestors and in due course started a movement to attempt to reform this faith. This movement was called the "ahmaddiya movement in Islam" and it was launched in 1889. Subsequently, as it happens in matters of a religious bend, this message (along with Mirza sahib himself) got increasingly distorted and we have the current issues with having to declare them a heresy (initially) with subsequent ex-communication from the fold as we know it.
Second story goes like so. There was born in the land of (initially) Poland (place called Lwow) which is now called Lviv (and part of present day Ukraine) a man called Leopold Weiss, into a Hasidic Jewish family. He became increasingly dis-enchanted with the faith of his ancestors and subsequently adopted a new faith called Islam and changed his name to Mohammed Asad. He travelled extensively within the muslim world and saw first hand the plight of the people adherent to his new faith. He was also not happy with many aspects of this new faith and wrote a book called "message of the Quran" in the English language, inspired no doubt by the very original straight from "Loh-e-Mahfouz"....He perhaps had no intention of this but as these things evolve, started an almost new heresy within Islam. Hence his book was banned in the Kingdom (Islamdon) of Saudi Arabia, amongst other parts of the muslim world. He attracted some followers, nevertheless.
Moral: Upto the reader of the two stories written above.
As for the Conclusion; it is as follows:
The followers pf the former (MGAQ) are called "Ahmadis (Ahmadites)" or "Qadianis", after his place of birth; and the off-shoot faith is labelled as "Ahmadiyyat" or "Qadiyaniat".
By the same token, we call the followers of the latter heresy "Asadis (Asadites)" or perhaps "Ukrainis(?)" and the heresy itself can be called "Asadism" or "Ukrainism".
I hope this clarifies Tahir sahib's position for you.....whatever he may be, wahabbi he is not!
Question remains, does he remain a muslim by asserting that God's word was "incomplete" or "incomprehensable to the Ajami musalman" without Mohammed Asad's intervention! He is also on record here known to disregard "Ahadith" as a source of guidance on matters of a religious nature...therefore denying us of an important souce of history, not to mention an elaboration of the life (and lifestyle) of our Holy Prophet.
Perhaps you can decide whether we should believe "the Word of God" or "the Word of Mohammed Asad"!!
I see your distress and it pains me sir. I'd tell you a couple of very short stories to make the point I am going to make and it'd also clarify the position and status of your interlocutor in # 73.
Once upon a time in a place called Qadian, a man called Mirza Ghulam Ahmed was born (13th Feb, 1835 to be precise). Whilst growing up, he became increasingly dis-enchanted with the faith of his ancestors and in due course started a movement to attempt to reform this faith. This movement was called the "ahmaddiya movement in Islam" and it was launched in 1889. Subsequently, as it happens in matters of a religious bend, this message (along with Mirza sahib himself) got increasingly distorted and we have the current issues with having to declare them a heresy (initially) with subsequent ex-communication from the fold as we know it.
Second story goes like so. There was born in the land of (initially) Poland (place called Lwow) which is now called Lviv (and part of present day Ukraine) a man called Leopold Weiss, into a Hasidic Jewish family. He became increasingly dis-enchanted with the faith of his ancestors and subsequently adopted a new faith called Islam and changed his name to Mohammed Asad. He travelled extensively within the muslim world and saw first hand the plight of the people adherent to his new faith. He was also not happy with many aspects of this new faith and wrote a book called "message of the Quran" in the English language, inspired no doubt by the very original straight from "Loh-e-Mahfouz"....He perhaps had no intention of this but as these things evolve, started an almost new heresy within Islam. Hence his book was banned in the Kingdom (Islamdon) of Saudi Arabia, amongst other parts of the muslim world. He attracted some followers, nevertheless.
Moral: Upto the reader of the two stories written above.
As for the Conclusion; it is as follows:
The followers pf the former (MGAQ) are called "Ahmadis (Ahmadites)" or "Qadianis", after his place of birth; and the off-shoot faith is labelled as "Ahmadiyyat" or "Qadiyaniat".
By the same token, we call the followers of the latter heresy "Asadis (Asadites)" or perhaps "Ukrainis(?)" and the heresy itself can be called "Asadism" or "Ukrainism".
I hope this clarifies Tahir sahib's position for you.....whatever he may be, wahabbi he is not!
Question remains, does he remain a muslim by asserting that God's word was "incomplete" or "incomprehensable to the Ajami musalman" without Mohammed Asad's intervention! He is also on record here known to disregard "Ahadith" as a source of guidance on matters of a religious nature...therefore denying us of an important souce of history, not to mention an elaboration of the life (and lifestyle) of our Holy Prophet.
Perhaps you can decide whether we should believe "the Word of God" or "the Word of Mohammed Asad"!!
#77 Posted by Senna on June 22, 2008 1:10:10 pm
Re: # 76
' am proud of Indian Politicians. "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
60% of recent BJP Karnataka elected have 6 out of ten Criminal records against them ....In last Gujjurat BJP won election no body dared o think other than BJP because be it Hindu (but congress or others) could not even slightly favour prosecution agauinst perpetrators and blatant murders of 2002.
Its synonymous for average to feel anti bjp is anti HINDU and evenAnti Indian ....
I am not saying better for any other politicians .If they wanted to be Nank, Bulleh Shah they would not enter POLITICS
' am proud of Indian Politicians. "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
60% of recent BJP Karnataka elected have 6 out of ten Criminal records against them ....In last Gujjurat BJP won election no body dared o think other than BJP because be it Hindu (but congress or others) could not even slightly favour prosecution agauinst perpetrators and blatant murders of 2002.
Its synonymous for average to feel anti bjp is anti HINDU and evenAnti Indian ....
I am not saying better for any other politicians .If they wanted to be Nank, Bulleh Shah they would not enter POLITICS
#76 Posted by saminshah on June 22, 2008 12:04:17 pm
Till date I believe that Indian Politicians lot are of lowest of low lives ,even bellow then standard of whores and pimps.But after watching pakistani politicians for quite some time now I am proud of Indian Politicians.
#75 Posted by tahir on June 22, 2008 10:28:05 am
Re: # 73 Naqs Bandit
"bashing saints like mawlana jalaluddin rumi"
What is Wahabi? At least I don't call my self THAT! In Allah's religion--Islam--one does not have to worship saints or whirl dancing to the 'dholak' of perversions they disguised as 'peoples' religion. Wolves in sheepskin!
Keep yourself busy washing their 'maqbaras' or dancing at their 'dargahs'! And please don't throw a slipper flying from Baghdad in my direction. Oooh I'm so afraid of your sufic powers...
"he has more islam in his toe than the whole wahabi/ahle-hadith/deobandi/tablighi/salafist neokharite nasibi movements put together."
And even more in the love-diwans he wrote for his beloveds: all men! Are you condoning these perversions?
"that book by afzal ahmad"
Afzal IQBAL!
"wahabi fool naa-tahir"
Now watch it Naqs (defect) Bandit, you're getting yourself into spiritual nass-bandi!
"bits translated originally into latin by prudish victorian orientalists in which the venerable hazrat rumi used a few sexual allegories to make spiritual points"
Please don't bestow your sexual spirituality on some poor fellow now!
"his story of the woman who was so overpowered by her lust that she made love to a donkey and died as a result. it is nothing salacious"
Ah! So before I could tell you, YOU told everyone about the sexual-spiritual story! Go ahead quote the whole impious poem now.
"laanat on wahabis and their blockheadedness!"
I think THEY call themselves 'muwahidun' (unitarians). Anyone who blows the lid off this sufi cover is a blockhead, right?
Ta-ta my whirling naked sufi friend.
"bashing saints like mawlana jalaluddin rumi"
What is Wahabi? At least I don't call my self THAT! In Allah's religion--Islam--one does not have to worship saints or whirl dancing to the 'dholak' of perversions they disguised as 'peoples' religion. Wolves in sheepskin!
Keep yourself busy washing their 'maqbaras' or dancing at their 'dargahs'! And please don't throw a slipper flying from Baghdad in my direction. Oooh I'm so afraid of your sufic powers...
"he has more islam in his toe than the whole wahabi/ahle-hadith/deobandi/tablighi/salafist neokharite nasibi movements put together."
And even more in the love-diwans he wrote for his beloveds: all men! Are you condoning these perversions?
"that book by afzal ahmad"
Afzal IQBAL!
"wahabi fool naa-tahir"
Now watch it Naqs (defect) Bandit, you're getting yourself into spiritual nass-bandi!
"bits translated originally into latin by prudish victorian orientalists in which the venerable hazrat rumi used a few sexual allegories to make spiritual points"
Please don't bestow your sexual spirituality on some poor fellow now!
"his story of the woman who was so overpowered by her lust that she made love to a donkey and died as a result. it is nothing salacious"
Ah! So before I could tell you, YOU told everyone about the sexual-spiritual story! Go ahead quote the whole impious poem now.
"laanat on wahabis and their blockheadedness!"
I think THEY call themselves 'muwahidun' (unitarians). Anyone who blows the lid off this sufi cover is a blockhead, right?
Ta-ta my whirling naked sufi friend.
#73 Posted by Naqshbandi on June 22, 2008 7:12:20 am
aah! wahabis bashing saints like mawlana jalaluddin rumi again. know that he has more islam in his toe than the whole wahabi/ahle-hadith/deobandi/tablighi/salafist neokharite nasibi movements put together.
that book by afzal ahmad is actually proof of his islamic credentials and his sainthood you idiot. i am sure this wahabi fool naa-tahir is referring to the bits translated originally into latin by prudish victorian orientalists in which the venerable hazrat rumi used a few sexual allegories to make spiritual points. e.g. his story of the woman who was so overpowered by her lust that she made love to a donkey and died as a result. it is nothing salacious,
laanat on wahabis and their blockheadedness!
that book by afzal ahmad is actually proof of his islamic credentials and his sainthood you idiot. i am sure this wahabi fool naa-tahir is referring to the bits translated originally into latin by prudish victorian orientalists in which the venerable hazrat rumi used a few sexual allegories to make spiritual points. e.g. his story of the woman who was so overpowered by her lust that she made love to a donkey and died as a result. it is nothing salacious,
laanat on wahabis and their blockheadedness!
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