Freud and Jung and Their Secret Affairs

A most interesting and informative article.

Nothing original but a well written summary about people we have rather vague memories about.

Re: # 69; and tahir

I am in a good mood so for now...shall merely "register" the other comments and not respond!....bear in mind, don't perceive it as weakness as you always do

let's say.....that'll be for another day!

Re: # 69; tahir

I have no reason to doubt your assertions; in fact I agree with them (about Rumi, i.e.,)!

all I want to know is where that leaves poor allama Iqbal?!!

Re: # 67 Oye cheemaya

You're intellectually empty; who gave you the licence to kill with your surgeon's knife oye?

Challenge, to me? Make me laugh some more!

Go read: The Life & Work Of Jalal-ud-din Rumi (by Afzal Iqbal) with a foreword by Professor A.J. Arberry! Published by PNCA, Pakistan.

The man has written other books as well. In THIS one you will find what the devious little 'saint' was really upto.

Draw your own conclusions, publish a paper perhaps but don't waste my time with your 'open daNggal' non-sense. By having your hair turn gray standing in the sun does not make you a wise man!

And don't come back unless you've read THE MEANING OF THE QUR'AN (by...you guessed it!)

Naqshbandi, I feel compelled to tell you that you are wrong in your statements that modern analysts have given up Freud completely. Many of his theories are still accepted and used every day
You may believe they should not be accepted; that is your prerogative.

Tahir mian

OPEN CHALLENGE!!

you prove the credibility of Iqbal after all you have said about Rumi; especially the pan-islamist reverence you islamists from pakistan grant him day and night!

otherwise we all would be more than justified in re-affirming the solid belief that you are very much the wanker you portray yourself to be!

and do it without personal insults too.....God, you wouldn't have anything to write about, would you??

Re: # 60; tahir
[[Oh how you love Baba Fraud and whirling Rumi of Konya!]]

you still haven't thrown any light on my question from before; this is the same Rumi revered by Iqbal as "perr-e-rumi" and throughout his poetry (both persian and urdu).

Did Iqbal make a mistake?

If NO.....Rumi can't be half bad!!

If YES....can we trust anything else Iqbal said??

by discrediting Iqbal's early poetry as silly and immature "indian nationalism" and subsequent "philosophy" so reliant upon Rumi......there not much left of your Iqbal, Is there??

Thanks for the article dr. sahib.
It was interesting. Though psychoanalysis is certainly interesting and Freud's contribution cannot be discarded a lot of professional psychologists have proven that he falsified and forged a lot of his data on which his sexuality-based theories. Modern psychoanalysts have therefore abandoned almost all of his theories since they are not scientifically provable or falsifiable and the evidence Fraud claimed was often made up by him!
http://donaldclarkplanb.blogspot.com/2007/01/freud-fraud.html

BTW did u know that one of Fraud's disciples/students Otto Rank became first the psychologist and then the lover of the writer Anais Nin?

ist hier ein lil Geheimnis. Tahir liest das tägliche gita. das chutiya, ohne zu verwirklichen, wird im Gehirn thoought ein hinduistisches, welches das ganndoos Herz ist musalman….tahir keine Sorgen bemannen youwill nicht katled, wenn Sie Islam aufgeben und Ihr ' vergessen; uran khatarra Quran ist nicht für Ihre Art!

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Chowk mein budboyein maarta aa gaya jo ek rukh-moor
SarR gayyey kuchh ke naak, bhaag gayay kuch thoor
Hey quinny, you were right. I see this moorukh (or rukh-moor?) nein hun chupeet wut layee hay – lag gayeen hein us ko mirchian – under under tap da phir da – uttoun deidaan smiliyaan.
This is true condescending and arrogance: replying when he can show off; wutting chupeet when he can’t. Well done dude - now you can go back to work - but I suggest take up a new nick to keep battering where you can – every one needs a ‘funny’ mirror (brilliant notion by the way) ; also I liked your blind spot thingy - and the cooking / tasting analogies – aaloo Bukhara or did you mean ullo bechaara.
At last I did read the article but only after reading your interacts and so it became damn clear how weak, and worthless this piece is. Even our high school kids are doing better these days. And yes "far fetched speculative" conclusion. These are our professionals. No wonder Pakistan is such a Kishware Haseen shad bad.
(don’t take me wrong – I love Pakistan – and I sing Pak sir zameen shad bad whenever I log-in )

#57 your opinion on whether he was a Jew or not means nothing at all. He was a liberal Jew. He met the ultimate criterion of Jewishness; he was targeted by the Nazis, and yes, his ashes are buried at Golders Green.

Re: # 58 Quinn

Consider the extra 'n' dropped.

Oh how you love Baba Fraud and whirling Rumi of Konya!

“Flowers are restful to look at. They have neither emotions nor conflicts�

I guess he was describing those could were unable to pay his fees and got deflowered on the couch!

“Whoever loves becomes humble. Those who love have, so to speak, pawned a part of their narcissism.�

I guess THIS involved his wife, her sisters and female cousins together in bed (just like John Lenon and Yoko Ono protesting away with a little child in a twin-bed)!

Good bye, and keep on engineering...

Re: # 57 A.M. dear,

I expect that you WILL switch over to a name that does NOT remind you of what you were but rather what Allah wishes you to be. Good effort can sound better if you consider my advice.

As for "haya, Sharam,Parda", these are alien concepts in lands that promotes bestiality, pornography, homosexuality, lesbianism and other perversions in the name of 'freedom of expression. Its more like 'freedom of XXX-pression'

:)

The one point which I really wanted to make but forgot as I got entangled in structural points, is that not only drsohail but many professionals and general public misunderstands the concept of sex as Freud actually meant. Generally speaking, sex is narrowed down to the actual sexual act. However, Freud saw it as Eros – the life force -that not only creates life BUT ALSO PRESERVES IT. All its preserving acts may include phenomenon such as love without ‘sex’ (so to say), and is associated with all kinds of positive emotions and social behavior, cooperation and collaboration - all that which tries to preserve LIFE. Opposite of Eros was termed Thanatos – the death drive.

So his idea of sex was much deeper than usually perceived even by professionals (as being a professional does not guarantee an understanding of the philosophy – there is science and then there is philosophy of science – two different things)
My own personal belief is (and lest anyone forget I am only a professional engineer) that to properly convey Freud’s meanings, a different diction should have been evolved, as the word ‘sex’ got too narrowly interpreted in later times than what Freud meant by it. Freud did not see it in any pervert way. simply, Freud’s followers let him down by not adapting vocabulary to keep things distinct. On the other hand, Jung did a great job in developing new diction for his discoveries.

Missing the core teachings of such big minds and drawing not to their real wisdom, but picking the cherries from the surface – is what put bad taste in my mouth.

Here are two most beautiful quotes of Freud for dessert:

“Flowers are restful to look at. They have neither emotions nor conflicts�

“Whoever loves becomes humble. Those who love have, so to speak, pawned a part of their narcissism.�

Deep deep stuff – almost poetic – Rumi like .

Anyway friends, this is my last post on Chowk. I have a few intense projects coming my way. My involvement here was tentative anyway, and I came here for a reason, partly, to get a taste of things around here. Had some lovely exchanges … some not so lovely but as Rumi said in his “Guest House’ … welcome them all.
I will thank every one individually through PMs – sorry that is my way of paying respect. I will post this part of the interact as iLog with my e-mail in case you would like to keep in touch.
Wishing peace and love to all … Mutaal Mooquin

Reply to # 51 0f Dr Sohail,

Dr Sohail,

I would not recognize Freud as a Jew , as orthodox Jews and Eastern Christians don't agree with his approach and they also don't agree with " un-paid prostitution " kind of things, which so called greedy European settler Jews brought to Israel.

Maximum, we can call Freud as a " Munafiq " Jew .

Like most of the European thinkers, Freud was probably not aware of the Eastern concept of " Haya " , modesty and his writings and activities revolved around his own culture.

In English we don't have proper word for " Haya ", the closest word probably , is modesty.

I hope as you grew up in the lap of an Eastern mother , hence you may know about concepts of " Sharam , Parda and Haya " .

After reading your articles , I believe you can be a Freud of Pakistan and you can incorporate Eastern concepts of " haya " , " Sharam " and " Parda " in the modern science of Psychology and Psycho- analysis.