Freud and Jung and Their Secret Affairs

Re: # 51
Worshipper of the J-people, Dr. Sohailsky,

Isa (peace on him) was NOT a Jew (follower of Judaism) but a Muslim and a Prophet. Get your facts right! The same is the case with Ibrahim (peace on him). You've been watching too many Hollywood movies!

Have you forgotten where you come from, the people you've left behind, and what contributions they've made to world history? I think you have.

In treating emotionally unstable people, you've lost your sense of being as a Muslim.

Get a better glimpse through the Qur'an about these allegedly 'smart people' you seem to love so much, these creators of deadly Godless Communism, the A-Bomb, and controllers of all mass media perversion....

How did you miss mentioning Adlof Hitler?

Re: # 49
As-salaam Alaikom,

Just a handful know how Marxists and shrinks have become esteemed columnists (5th. columnists!?) at CHOW-Q. Guess what 'Q' stands for?

Look, Baba 'case' of Toronto, Najma-goes-to-Torn-Ronto, and loser Q-cumbers are all well-settled in frozen hell, doing their 'thang'.

Writing well is better than psycho-analysis. Ah! the pain these creatures inflict upon the 'sheeple' with their sex-centred stories...

Regards.

Re: # 46
Pyaray Bacho, Kiwi kia hay?
Kiwi aik parindah hay
Har aik polish ki dibbia par kiwi hehta hay

With this jingle, NOW can you guess what is the purpose of this gem from Baba 'case' of Toronto?

I said it eons ago: the man NO CAN DO! But that doesn't mean he must be allowed to try at our expense. My God, what an expense!

drsohail, I agree with Dash_dot.
I hadn't heard that joke in toto btw, pretty good!

Re: # 51 hhhhm! you are a muslim I think (a practising one???)


I would be careful in these times of religious fundamentalism!

Re: # 48
dear ahmedmadani...your letter reminded me of an anecdote
human history and civilization is the result of the contributions of five jews
the first jew was moses who said that human mind is the most imporatnt thing so we need to think seriously about life
the second jew was christ who said that human heart is the most important thing and we need to be kind and compassionate
the third jew was marx who said that human stomach is the most important thing we need to feed people and solve their class conflicts
the fourth jew was freud who said that sex is the most important thing if unsatisfied it can cause emotional problems
the fifth jew was einstein who said nothing is absolute it is all relative
it is interesting how many psychiatrists and psychologists in europe and north america were jews but most of them were non-practicing secular jews....sincerely sohail

Re: # 49 LOL MASADA Complex - your second para.

Could you please write a few words on this and post it here - seeing that your submissions are not accepted for publication on FP

This article written by chowk's resident shrink has no place on chowk fp yet it is plastered right at the front with the mugshot of this fool, and articles that are relevant to the Pakistan/India scene like the ones I write and blatantly censored with impunity. This is the kind of bs site this chowk is becomming. Now, what is the value of summarizing some biographical aspects of personalities, what does it add to our understanding of the homeland and its position within the world system or of the current setup of the world. These shrinks are part of the mechanism of capitalism to blame the individual for the problems the system creates, to profitably link that blame with disease and with medicine both very profitable ventures and to convert a people who have discovered their freedom via a lable into those that are the outsiders or rejected or psychotic. These shrink they are criminals, the witch doctors of the present era working with the powers that be to control and dominate humanity and as Al-Gore says when he tries to profitably sell the environment (capitalist style), this control and domination "need not be costly"- push the drugs make the big bucks, fools psychosis in the Western world is positively related with shrinkery, so what have you fixed? Absolutely nothing.

Remember Karl Mannheim's assertion, during times of integration and status quo the "psychotic" might be the exception, to be controlled by institutions and law enforcement but during times of crisis and institutional contradiction, he (the pyschotic) defines the course. What does this tell you about the psychosis in the Western world? IT tells you that that system even under maximum control, drugs and a bursting prison population is in deep crisis, the change is coming, humanity will be liberated and the shrinks will be out of business hunted and destroyed as oppressors of mankind

Dr.KS Thank you sir for your article.
Do Freud and Jung were Jewish ? Was Adler also Jewish ?
It appears one can not become great in scholarship unless one you have at least few affairs . That where average person fails , he lusts in dream of opposite sex, money and power fame and goes to sleep snoring.It is said saints are awake at night and worrying about world and worldy things.
Good day.

hurricane, I appreciate your openness. hmmm and your poise. I confess I may have been abrasive and all that ... I think I am like a 'funny' mirror ... if you know what I mean (if not then read interacts again.)
communication skills ... now you are being condescending sir/madam (i don't know you) - it is interesting how you appear to be protectiing of others ... queer, if I need doc's help for communication skill (who does not in this anyway), you need help with this queer trait of yours ...
(btw, all this is a joke - for fun - even the abrasiveness - nothing here is serious anyway - the more people become serious on trifles more funny it looks - cheers)
PS: there is no double n in my nick unless you are doing intentionally - if it is inentional I take the joke with humour :-) enjoy

However, I confess, if one strips away the abrasive tone of quinn's interact, he does make an interesting point regarding the lack of clarity on how did those affairs shape the modern psycho world.

quin, me thinks you need some communication skills. Perhaps Dr. Sohail can help?

"So, both you and hurricane, listen carefully now. "

jes.

I leesan :)

seriously though. Dr. Quinn the medicine woman, it's you that's appearing condescending, and wee bit...umm...arrogant.

anywho...I'll leave this debate of worthiness of the article between you and Dr.Sohail. I've said enough on the matter

What this fella hurricane does not read before writing and understand before replying is explained again in my reply below to drsohail. Read pl and don’t loose your sleep over others. They are supposedly mature enough to decide and defend themselves.

Doc, fist I do appreciate your thorough reply, however, you have missed the main point of my contention. I had not objected to the simplicity of style. You did not have to ‘defend’ that (and elicit profuse sympathy from others) You don’t expect me NOT to understand one of the basic tenets of good writing – simplicity. If you thought that I don’t understand even that – that is exactly my point. You have tendency to become condescending. (That comes from … but that is another topic – I want to focus here only on the merits of the article).
It is a given – almost an axiom – that good writing has to be simple and elegant and profound. (The best example of which is Shakespeare’s “to be or not to be�)
What I was referring to was the ‘simplicity’ (= ordinariness) of thought and lack of profundity in that article. I will explain here again how you failed in this article due to inept handling of your so mulled over material.
(btw, was I asking you to use jargon? How you concluded that and start explaining the inappropriateness of jargons (or you may have found this as an opportunity to display your knowledge – or you are trying to avoid the real issue of my contention).
So, both you and hurricane, listen carefully now.
What was the basic idea of the article? Tell me. Give me in one sentence (the theme sentence) of the article and then read it again and read the article and you will understand what I am trying to say. Don’t try to impress me with how many pages you read. Let’s talk about the merit of the article that is on the table so to say. Just a reader to writer talk (or a writer to writer talk.) What is your theme? Say it and then you will see that your theme loses substance my dear doctor because it lacks supporting material. And that is what I meant by being simple (=ordinary).

Starting with the tile, it gives an impression of frivolous gossip column as someone else has said. Then, to the two- third of the article you keep dragging reader through Freud’s well known (becoming almost clichéd) ideas. Then comes your intended theme, or so I thought. But you could not produce more than just a narration of the events. And then some of Jung’s ideas (disproportionably less than Freud’s). And then you conclude “It is amazing how the unresolved conflicts of Freud and Jung affected the evolution of human psychology in 20th century.� A far fetched, baseless speculative conclusion.
So do you see the structural incoherence – (Title = onion, Freud’s ideas= aaloo, events = meat, Jung’s ideas= matar, conclusion = aaloo bukhara)

WHERE IS SUPPORTING MATERIAL IN THE ARTICLE TO SHOW TO THE READER THE LINK BETWEEN THEIR PERSONAL CONFLICT AND SHAPING OF THEIR IDEAS? JUST SHOWING THEIR CONFLICT AND SHOWING THEIR IDEAS DOES NOT SHOW THE LINK BETWEEN THEM.
I know you must have mulled over your main idea (viz., link between their personal conflict and shaping of their ideas) for months or years, and you wondered “how the history of Freudian and Jungian traditions…would have been different if …�. But there is this big missing link which does not show reader anything – reader is left wondering only and wonders, "WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE ARTICLE AGAIN?" The conclusion is no more than a conjecture at the best. And that is what is simplistic That is like a high school students’ simplicity, painting things in broad strokes, generalizing too much and not seeing the missing links in logic of their writings.

Every trivial thought which comes to mind is not necessarily worth sharing or worth an article unless you develop it on sound basis.
Doc! Remember theory of blind spots??? Or you need further help.

Thank you Dr Sohail for sharing this wonderful Knowledge with us.

Our Khalifa 2 ( Founder of Nizam e Jamaat Ahmadiyya ) studied Freud and Psychology and he, his sons and his Nizaam became the strongest Pirs of Pakistan.

Now after reading your article , I can do my psycho analysis and I can a bit better understand Pakistani Pirs and their tactics .

You cannot imagine about the psycholgical tricks of our Jamaat e Ahmadiyya.

They are habitual liars , dramatists , actors,black mailers, whiners, 5th columnists , worst torturers ,money worshipers and brutal murderers .

You cannot imagine about the grip and control they have over my life and how much damage, pain and suffering they have caused to Mureeds and followers like me.

When it comes to oppression, blood sucking and cold blooded murders then Pirs of Jhang , Pirs of Multan , Pirs of Rabwah and Pirs of Islamabad become one.

" ibn e Mariam huwa karay koi
meray dard ki dawa karay koi "

Dear Dr. Sohail,

What my fellow moorakhs don't understand that it is very very hard to right simply. Especially if you're technically adept, it is very hard to let go of the jargon (which is used as a safety shield).

The ability to present something in a simple manner is one of the most cherished skill in the world. World leaders that are very successful, are those that can boil an entire plethora of issues faced by a society into something very easy to understand : "Roti, KaprDa aur Makan" for example.

In my own realm, motivational speakers make obscene amounts of money for presenting complicated theories in an easy manner. Deepak Chopra, Tony Robbins, etc are not trying to impress us with jargon.

Jargon appeals to intellectual pride, where simplicity speaks to the heart.

So I hope you don't have to defend the simplicity of your writing anymore...us chowkies are a lost cause...don't pay much attention to our criticism ;)

Sorry folks, I still have not read the article. Too much budboo - could not go close despite best intentions. I hear the rumors that it is a gup shup column with with a flavour of psychotic rant. Can someone tell me if it is worth wasting my time. Anyone gained anything from it ...
And folks, they are talking about style now - ha he hu hu
biggest joke ... what style ... do they know what style means????
tahir_the man, thanks for warning; let us see where the mirchin goes. And well said about 'respect' thing. And as far agreeing thing - honestly you write so much - who can read all that - especially slow witted like me - so it is very safe to say - I don't agree with all - you know.
saya-e khudaya-e zuljalal