Freud and Jung and Their Secret Affairs

To access truth there are many paths. People choose certain path for different external and internal reasons. Quran itself says, this is your path and this is mine (109.6). Arguments based on the perceived percepts of Quran takes us nowhere. One can argue ad infinitum one way or other. It is not the weakness of Quran. It all depends on what one’s heart is seeking for. It’s just like life itself; an interaction with a living thing - a chemistry between two partners. I happen to find that chemistry with spiritual aspect of Quran and my interaction with it is not tainted by (trifles). ... and I bother not myself with exploring every other spring for satiety of my thirst. If there are other springs and people are drinking from them, I am happy for them. If they are drinking coke or seven-up only, I am happy for them too. I find my nourishment and solace in my spring and I worry not too much to ‘nikal baal ki khaal’.
(above is part of another of my interacts - adding here I don't know why - addressed not to anyone particular)

Re: # 134
I don't need to look for a kachra woman - I see a kachra man or two right here ... and I do get my share sir ...
I can only pray that God shows all a balanced course "siratal mustaqueem"
Your interactions (I read only directed to me) has revealed to me a lot about man's capacity or incapacity to understand. Thanks a lot for taking time to respond. I would have missed this education if I had not crossed your path.
Last question I have for you if you would be kind enough to illuminate: What is your opinion about terrorism and al-quadia and all that? I look forward to the this final revelation.

Re: # 133 Quin
Fine, look for the kachra-woman, offer your other cheek, and whirl scantily-clad, begging or handing out laaahhhhve!

:)

Re: # 125
Yes, ALL IS LOVE ... only if we see the spirit and are not mired in words ... ALL IS LOVE ...NOTHING BUT LOVE ... NOTHING BUT LOVE ...
now don't ask me anyone, what is LOVE?
Go deep in your heart and listen how its beats;
Stop this volcano of thoughts and listen how you breath;
May be then LOVE will reveal its secrets to you.
(PS: and once you know the secret, you will know why IT needs no defending)

Re: # 130 Papps

"Do you mean, one particular community and language is chosen by the god?"

Take the 400-year oppression of the Bani- Israel (children of Israel) at one of the greatest Pharoah's hands.

They suffered humiliation after humiliation because they strayed from the path shown by those who brought to them God's Commands (no! not Charlton Heston please!).

They had to be led because that would first mean their own reformation, and the eventual end of the economically-religiously exploitive godless system in which MAN was god!

The theme of the Qur'an remains dominantly pro-life, pro-unitarian, and anti-evil. It spells out how the force--that is in the bloodstream--plays with our desires and ignorance.

Understand THIS mechanism and you've got it right!

Regards.

PS: this ought to be enough for a Sunday!

Re: # 130 Papps

"in order to make US understand, the Word always came in the chosen community's own language."

When I said THAT, I meant 'chosen' to reform and then lead others to 'belief'. It is disbelief (a kind of ignorance and clouding of one's inner self) that sets one on fire instead of lighting one up! There's a difference in the two states.

'Chosen' as totally misunderstood by the Jews, and also by some Muslims, does NOT mean 'chosen' forever under all circumstances and in all modes of behaviour! If THIS were so, God would indeed be a partisan god as in Greek mythology! Please understand that the followers of His way come, go, or stay depending upon how strong evil becomes. In the end, He will prevail; He cannot lose although it might seem that way these days!

I'm glad you do realise that we are not a joint-venture between God and some other corporation!

Self-denial (forbidding what God has allowed in His Wisdom), suppression of the good SELF, or encouraging evil are unhealthy activities. Good classwork means no homework in the Hereafter! Think about THIS Pappu dear.

Tahir,

I had to attend to other things in between. Continueing from previous post:

I mean when we start judging with the attitude of assigning individuality to each prophet/sage/swami/guru then we fall into the "devilish trap" as you say. The whole purpose of this journey is to come to an understanding of oneness.

"Again the Qur'an and older scriptures describe why there is one God, why we must obey His Commands, and not fall into devilish traps that ruin life-after-death."

Yes! there is one god, the whole universe is a living being called God. If the individuality is ignorance then individual's life and death is just an illusion.

"He is multi-ligual only because from one pair and one language, we've gone off on different routes, therefore, in order to make US understand, the Word always came in the chosen community's own language."

If the God is all pervading as mentioned above. It is manifesting itself in many forms. Why rely on words only? A motherly glance has the same potential to go further on the path of understanding. I would even say even the thoughlessness, wordlessness and activity-lessnes can do the same.

What is chosen langyage and chosen community? Do you mean, one particular community and language is chosen by the god?
Seems does not fit harmoniously with above understanding.

Thanks for your answers

Re: # 128 Pappu

"Instead of trying to "reach" god, we need to come to an understanding that "each" is god. What do you think?"

This is what I think: the Lord of all that we can see and what is beyond our perception, DOES NOT approve of this idea of each being a god! Who told you to believe in this?

We CANNOT ever come to a mutually agreed upon poistion using our own desires. Hate it of you wish, but we must operate according to the Manufacturer's Instruction Manual or else face having a blown fuse, malfunctioning parts and a void warranty.

"prophet/sage/sadhu/swami/guru is one whose understanding has ripened to "each' is god."

None of the Prophets of God's religion (monotheism) proposed THIS!

"You are right when you say that our inner voice tells us who is ahead of us and how we can take help from them. When we judge these people who might be ahead of us in understanding, we insteading of moving ahead start moving back."

For the unbeliever, BACK is FRONT!

Here's something very relevant Pappu:

2:74
And yet, after all this, your hearts hardened and became like rocks, or even harder: for, behold, there are rocks from which streams gush forth; and, behold, there are some from which, when they are cleft, water issues; and, behold, there are some that fall down for awe of God. And God is not unmindful of what you do!

Cf.59 For an explanation of this allusion, see 7:143. The simile of "the rocks from which streams gush forth" or "from which water issues" serves to illustrate its opposite, namely, dryness and lack of life, and is thus an allusion to the spiritual barrenness with which the Qur'an charges the children of Israel.

Regards.

Tahir,

"Reach God HOW, physically, spiritually? I think you're fixating on getting to touch God! No chance. Many sages and self-proclaimed apparently pious men have tried but without the Supreme Authority's clear sanction or Guidance. The stories of the Prophets tells us WHO they actually were, WHAT did they say and do, and WHY must we follow their way.
"

Instead of trying to "reach" god, we need to come to an understanding that "each" is god. What do you think?

Accordingly, then prophet/sage/sadhu/swami/guru is one whose understanding has ripened to "each' is god. On the path of this understanding we are at different milestones. You are right when you say that our inner voice tells us who is ahead of us and how we can take help from them. When we judge these people who might be ahead of us in understanding, we insteading of moving ahead start moving back.

Re: # 126 Papps
There a million other things I could do on a Sunday morning; it is indeed a miracle that we're interacting instead!

Here we go now:

"Do you think people can reach to the god without reading a book, without going to temples, churches and mosques or listening to some one?

Reach God HOW, physically, spiritually? I think you're fixating on getting to touch God! No chance. Many sages and self-proclaimed apparently pious men have tried but without the Supreme Authority's clear sanction or Guidance. The stories of the Prophets tells us WHO they actually were, WHAT did they say and do, and WHY must we follow their way.

You may spend all your life hearing Naik's video cassettes, or selected portions of the Bible being whipped up in the church, or a devious 'pir' promising you the stairway to heaven--the rock anthem!

BUT, the voice that comes from within is considered the best since that chip is implanted in us by the Creator, the second-best is how you doubt and I help clarify through my inner faith, and the worst is when I keep showing you the way (and while you do feel something to be true) you keep denying and ridiculing faith. Prophets were the first category, most are the second, and many on CHOWK are happy with the third one! What can I say?

"What is god?"
Again the Qur'an and older scriptures describe why there is one God, why we must obey His Commands, and not fall into devilish traps that ruin life-after-death. I guess you must read these since I cannot copy and paste long passages forever here!

Even the Arabic Bible uses the term 'Allah'! He alone is the Creator and others have no share in His Power although they do claim that they do! Since He has created and placed us in this examination hall, He will question us, we cannot question Him since our intellect gets clouded by the senses and petty impermanence of this world. He is unlike His Creation, outside of it, but totally knowledeable about each event through His Divine information technology.

"Is he in human form?"
No, that is a Hollywood myth, dreams of the insane. The few grams of limited mental matter cannot fathom the Infinite. Try as you may, you will only be able to sense His Existence through His Creation.

"Does he speak only one language?"
He is multi-ligual only because from one pair and one language, we've gone off on different routes, therefore, in order to make US understand, the Word always came in the chosen community's own language.

"Is he located only at one place?"
He is beyond the XYZ dimensions, beyond what is actually hidden from our senses. We have limited eyesight and hearing, how can we go beyond the limits unless HE wills it so?

"Why do we have to search miracles/god in particular way, after learning a particular language and reading a particular book?"

Chose the language you understand! Not knowing Arabic like an Arab has not stopped me from comparing and understanding what makes me think deeply about things! Why should you limit yourself?

Regards.

Tahir,

""His description is veiled in allegory in the Qur'an and is like the similitude of a believer's heart in which remembrance and gratitude reside."

Download NASA images of outer space and see the Divine 'aatishbazi' of perpetual Creation! Then look within yourself, your heart, and how it connects to the intellect, how the senses say one thing and that 'something inside' yet another.

Why must we--and the trillions of galaxies spinning around--go on; for what and on whose Command?

A believer's heart recieves this 'light' when he has prepared himself according to the prescribed formula which is not as simple as E=mc2!

It is this 'inner' process Pappu dear that you must allow to take place without the high education always causing you to trip over!"

You have not answered any question. You are replying to all the posts serially. Focus on one post. Define each word. It might be all futile exercize in terms having growth. But it's not what you do but the attitude behiind it, that matters the most.

Again original questions were:
Do you think people can reach to the god without reading a book, without going to temples, churches and mosques or listening to some one?

What is god? Is he in human form? Does he speak only one language? Is he located only at one place?
==========
Miracles are all over. Billions of things can go wrong in a pregnancy but still trillions and trillions of babies are born perfectly healthy. You and I are talking on internet is also a miracle. The intellect we use and its working so that we make it fault tolerant and growing network, is also a miracle. Why do we have to search miracles/god in particular way, after learning a particular language and reading a particular book?

Re: # 118

Ah, the story of the 'kachra-woman!

And Jesus never turned his own cheek to the usurous priests, he let them have it!

All is not love!

Re: # 118 Quin

I think you did not read #93.

There's a time for love, and there's a time for war. Even Iblees has a certain twisted character, intellect and convictions; a man need to be one-up on this THING!

You will only get to know CHOWKies by their words; spend time seeing who they really are. THEN only will you know who is an enenmy or a friend.

Regards.

Re: # 116 Quin

"I intend not to promote any cause, nor defend anything. It was coincidental that I was thrown into this discussion."

A man without a cause, with nothing to defend or deflect is worse than any living thing! Surely, you must have some convictions, or are you too worried about what others will think about you? If the answer to the first question is in negative, then the answer to the second question is obvious.

Events and people lead one into things. If you are being led into something that effects you for good, then allow yourself to be led in!

I too am working on a Book idea: the Qur'an.

Now get down on it! Poetry can wait, for 'only the erring follow the poets'.

Now who said THIS?

Re: # 114 Papps

"His description is veiled in allegory in the Qur'an and is like the similitude of a believer's heart in which remembrance and gratitude reside."

Download NASA images of outer space and see the Divine 'aatishbazi' of perpetual Creation! Then look within yourself, your heart, and how it connects to the intellect, how the senses say one thing and that 'something inside' yet another.

Why must we--and the trillions of galaxies spinning around--go on; for what and on whose Command?

A believer's heart recieves this 'light' when he has prepared himself according to the prescribed formula which is not as simple as E=mc2!

It is this 'inner' process Pappu dear that you must allow to take place without the high education always causing you to trip over!

Regards.

#118 Posted by quin

A woman used to throw house-trash over Prophet’s head every time he passed through her street....

See? This is what I meant. This incident is nowhere in any Hadees or Sunnah and is a myth when ascribed to Muhammad. It is actually from the Bahai'i tradition and said to have occurred with Baha'ullah. It was adapted to Islamic tradition at some point by some sufi type scholars because it's a nice story, and great to mislead people.

There was a discussion about this a while ago and I had proven this from several texts.