Local Liberal Dribble

Masadi,

A bigot is a person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own, and bigotry is the corresponding ideology.

How did you decide I am a bigot? Do you mean if I am intolerant to bombing of innocent civilians and places of worship, which is the life style of some Pakistanis, you labeled me bigot? Mohammad Atta and 18 other Arabs who did 9/11 did not have economic grievances and also they did not come from the lower social strata. Moreover, Islam is not supposed to have any stratas, then why Islamic country such as Pakistan where 97% of the population is Islamic, produces 90% terrorists?

For your ready reference this is what I wrote:
"Religious fanaticism is a social, economic and psychological problem, or in other words, it is a purely modern human problem rather than only an ideological one. Unfortunately "moderate Muslims" when they address it become as myopic as the fanatics themselves because they get stuck in the quicksand of conflicting ideas, conveniently forgetting that the fanatic may just be a mentally ill human being with serious social problems and that the moderate himself may only be indulging in a navel-gazing tug-of-war of ideas and words to come to terms with his own liberalism in a place where religion is ubiquitously present in everything and everywhere.
"
Lot of words but what does it mean? Are Buddhist/Hindus from Combodia bombing Churches or Mosques? They and Tibetans are economically destitute as Pakistani Muslims involved in terrorism. You may be right it might be psychological. At purfunctory level one could point at the reports in press regarding high deppression among Pakistanis. That might be in turn because of social conditions, family practices and easy Islamic devorce laws. But what is behind all this? Is it the teachings of Koran and Hadiths? What is idealogy?

well it wasnt an existentialist novel...but for lollywood it was very well made and timely.

I thought the last scene was great ....it isnt a question of what he was wearing. The point is this guy wearing jeans and whatever felt he had a right to give the azaan. "They" thought otherwise and took the mike away from him ...but he continued giving the azaan, - his voice couldnt be drowned out just because the "fanatic" had the mike.

NFP:

okay, so you're inching just a little closer to "art" again. good for you.

i haven't seen this movie, and probably will not. thanks for the write-up. :)

p.s. next time give the liberals thoRa sa break and rage against the surkhis. if you can!!! On second thought, never mind.

p.p.s. mohar only likes your "write-up" 'cause he hates us "pakis." :) do not be fooled by his praise. ;)

Re: # 20; aanandk sahib,
[[The movie also had some irritating and rather offensive statements like "we ruled India for hundreds of years" or "we created the taj mahal" (Shaan tells his white gf this). Who is the "we?" - muslims? pakistanis? There are just as many muslims in India ... and sorry, pakistan never ruled india. (Of course, a pakistani's view on these dialogues would have been different)]]

I noticed that too and agree it comes across as quite offensive....depending of course on one's perspective like you said.

My criticism of religious theology in interact # 2 is not limited to "one particular faith system" as perhaps perceived at times......I have repeatedly made it clear that religious belief/ritualism etc is often inter-twined with one's cultural background and at times inseparable. Religio-fascism, the concept of the domaination of one faith over the other, is the issue and has to be tackled head on.....it is meaningless to attempt an apologetic stance and try to 'justify' barbarism in the name of religion...any religion!

That is why I am in favour of confining this beast, as much as possible, to the private. Let's face it, we can't 'eliminate' it completely; its like treating cancer....sometimes the only option is to "de-bulk" the tumour as much as possible, to prevent its spread to other more vital structures.....it only means that the procedure may have to be repeated several times to gain 'local control' of the disease.

Unfortunately an interest in fairytales seems to be a necessity for the common man with feeble insight and imagination (I have no idea why?). Why can't people enjoy and cherish the 'mythos' in mythology more than the 'logos'?....or at least equally as much.....afterall, we all enjoy "Iliad and Odyssey" without 'believing' in the ultimate supremacy of Zeus(substitute apropriately)! don't we?

Re: #20 (Yes, I'm new and will address you as you just did me)

About Rasheed Naz's 'Tahiri', I kept an open mind and have a softer view on Mullah's than what they are portrayed in the media or hear'say. They dont bite, I have met some very honourable charismatic and peaceful Mullah's (this was waay before Sept 11 happened and new-era aggressive confused 'Mullahs' cropped up mind you), hence I have mixed views on anti-Mullah-ism and didn't know what to expect from the character in the film. Unlike the majority I wasn't like Beard + Afghan Turban = Evil!

Aanandk, I'm open to good film suggestions, please name a few, I've heard south Indian films are good, but dont get enough exposure which is usually the case unfortunately, would they have English subtitles?


To the rest of the commentors; NFP likes to have an issue with all things Islam in general, I dont give a monkey's about his opinion. Besides it was a film, a medium of entertainment, and made for the underrepresented Pakistani-Muslim public ABOUT the Pakistani-Muslim public (and being one of them, I can relate so much to that film, he got it spot on!).

Anyway not like it was made to appease everybody on the planet's tastes impossible as that is, koi theka tho nahi liya Shoaib Mansoor ne.

You're all entitled to your own views, but dont just mimic NFP here. It's like he's just weedled a little hole in there and now non-Muslims who felt uncomfortable by the movie's popularity are climbing nay jumping onto this bandwagon.

I could argue all the negative points being raised here nonstop as I didn't find any fault in the film, but (yawn),I dont have such time to spare.

Re: # 13

About the tahiri character. Perhaps you saw the grey that I missed. But it was clear from the beginning that he was going to be the dark one.

Nadeem Paracha raises a very important point. My biggest problem with the movie is that it seems to play "fair and balanced" on the issue of terrorism - on the one side there are the mullah-types who go around finding vulnerable, confused youth & on the other side is the imperialist superpower. The truth is that this is a very cliched view on this topic. It creates a false sense of right & wrong and plays up stereotypes about US and mullahs. The same stereotypes are employed by Mohsin Hamid in his book "reluctant fundamentalist."

The general theme that the innocent, common man is caught up in a larger battle between two evils (religious fanatics versus imperialist US) is woefully cliched in my opinion. It absolves almost all mistakes committed by the common man himself.

The most important character in the movie was that of Sarmad the younger brother. No one talks about his psychological transformation - what prompts a "modern" youth like him to take up a rather medieval outlook?

The movie also had some irritating and rather offensive statements like "we ruled India for hundreds of years" or "we created the taj mahal" (Shaan tells his white gf this). Who is the "we?" - muslims? pakistanis? There are just as many muslims in India ... and sorry, pakistan never ruled india. (Of course, a pakistani's view on these dialogues would have been different)

Cinema couldn't get any better? Hmm, I respectfully disagree with that. (Then again, I'm an Indian and from south india. Truth be told, I grew up watching some real quality home-grown cinema from kerala like Adoor Gopalakrishnan and the bengali masters. Even today, there are many many independent and original movie makers in India who don't get the exposure that the Bollywood crew - Johars, Chopras or Khans get. I've seen a couple of masterful hindi movies in the last couple of months. So my perspective on cinema might be a bit biased.)

I would only be glad to see more quality movies like KKL from Pakistan. And from that point of view, maybe this movie could spur more quality movie makers from pakistan.

Then we have fools and intellectual morons like pappu in #17 who because of their bigotry blame Islam, the most noble system of simple morality and justice the world has seen........

NP writes "Also, I think it's time we start addressing irrationally-charged matters like religious fanaticism as a psychological issue rather than an intellectual or an ideological one."

Mian you just throw words around, it is not a psychological issue but a sociological one, having to do with the socioeconomic structure of a society. It might appear psychological in its individual manifestations but it surely isn't so given the numbers as well as variety of religions involved (which makes it a non-ideological issue of course).

The movie in question you talk about gives about the same message as the GWB "The war isn't against Islam" only to be followed up with "Islamic terrorists". The US elite have given a major enemy status to a the frankenstein of their own creation through circumstance and direct indoctrination as well in their previous fight against communism, it then gave them a victory at great cost in that conflict and left them power drunk in that victory, later giving them this status to deflect the actual struggle against them, they have helped mainstream those thugs and helped them develop grass roots support due to their actions of killing women and children and their support of the people's oppressors, the Pakistan Army.

The movie made by the CIA supported GEO, gives the message that if you "non fundamentalists" are not with us in our looting and our killings then you are with the terrorists and we will treat you like them and convert you into Osama worshippers through that treatment, a self fulfilling prophecy! The middle way the way of justice and not letting your hatreds guide your choice, the way of Islam is ignored, the burden of blame in that movie is never on the US, it is always on the other side whose transgressions are deliberately sensationalized and inflated, mullahs of the kind they show are quite powerless in our society unless the Americans with their proxy occupation force the Pakistan Army gives them the power through major enemy status and material support...Its a cat and mouse game of the elite in which hatreds are enflamed and escalation sought by the major player in this game, the US, nevermind the people of all ideological shades get ground....

"Religious fanaticism is a social, economic and psychological problem, or in other words, it is a purely modern human problem rather than only an ideological one. Unfortunately "moderate Muslims" when they address it become as myopic as the fanatics themselves because they get stuck in the quicksand of conflicting ideas, conveniently forgetting that the fanatic may just be a mentally ill human being with serious social problems and that the moderate himself may only be indulging in a navel-gazing tug-of-war of ideas and words to come to terms with his own liberalism in a place where religion is ubiquitously present in everything and everywhere.
"
Lot of words but what does it mean? Are Buddhist/Hindus from Combodia bombing Churches or Mosques? They and Tibetans are economically destitute as Pakistani Muslims involved in terrorism. You may be right it might be psychological. At purfunctory level one could point at the reports in press regarding high deppression among Pakistanis. That might be in turn because of social conditions, family practices and easy Islamic devorce laws. But what is behind all this? Is it the teachings of Koran and Hadiths? What is idealogy?

anyhoo - good write up from nadeem...

I remember a bunch pakis were going ga ga over this movie - it was as if this movie was like best thing since sliced samosa... I wonder what the fuss all about...

[... believed that produced by a group that is partially responsible for the state of affairs in Pakistan; the message could not be credible...]

What the heck is HP talking about?... paki army produced this movie?

“Religious fanaticism is a social, economic, and psychological problem, or in other words, it is a purely modern human problem rather than only an ideological one.�

Well said Nadeem. After a long time you appeared to have finally recaptured your distinct intellectual mojo. The problem of religious fanaticism is not about the Muslims alone. This web site is actually a showcase of what is wrong with the religious fanaticism. We not only have Muslims but Hindus and Ahmedis religious fanatics too. While the Muslims are extolling the virtues of the criminals in the tribal areas of Pakistan, Hindus are magnifying the benefits of caste system and claim that dalits get better treatment in the caste system. For Ahmedis, the innovative use of cusses is the highlight of the Ahmedi message.

The Christian fundamentalists in the US appear to be freshly out of the Cuckoo's nest. The Jewish fundamentalists are promoting only the violent methods of conflict resolutions. Surprisingly, some in a community that barely a few decades ago went through the most horrible and torturous period of its history, promote nuke drops on other people.

This phenomenal rise of the religious fanaticism worldwide is astounding. I am sure in time scholars would begin to look for the causes that are not so obvious now. Unfortunately, Muslims and especially some educated Pakistani Muslims have caught the bug too. It is one thing to see the uneducated youth following a crooked message, but now we see people with some faculty to figure out right from wrong, following a path of destruction.

Couching political demands in religious language is the work of non political actors. When non political actors become the leaders in a community, the solutions offered don’t lead to peace but to destruction.

The society still hasn’t reached a level of sickness that is incurable. So, every attempt to show the pitfalls no matter how feeble is appreciable. In that regard, perhaps, there was some value in the movie. Otoh, can we just continue to tiptoe around the issues?

I haven’t seen the movie but I believed that produced by a group that is partially responsible for the state of affairs in Pakistan; the message could not be credible. Your review just confirmed my thoughts.

This is classic NFP drivel. I cant believe he has only just seen it and was actually bashing it prior to watching it.

It's a superb piece of well-researched, well thought-out and crafted work by ShoMan.

Aanandk i disagree there, the characters aren't black and white at all, Maulana Tahiri was actually quite unpredictable, started off a bit of a charmer. The darker depths of his character were then exposed in subtle layers. Thats just one example, and that makes it quite true to life. Even the 'saintly' character played by Shah got an ear-bashing at some point.

Black and white would've been Fawad Khan's 'Sarmad' having done some muscle-flexing heroics ala Bollywood style, but he remained the bumbling-kid-having-lead-a-sheltered-life throughout.

Sorry guys but cinema couldn't get any better.
Dont just criticise it for the sake of criticising.

Mr. Paracha,

Though I agree with you that the movie leaves a lot to be desired, must say you left out an important aspect of the film in your critic.

The fear on the face of the Pakistani father seeing his daughter resting her head on the shoulder of a gora was the most telling scene of this movie. It reminded me of an interview I had seen of Salman Rushdie. When asked if 'fundamentalism was the root cause of terror', he replied
'no, they both have a common root cause. Fear of sexuality, especially fear of the female as a sexual person in the psyche of some believers.'

akcheema #9 (T)

that is what I was thinking as I just read Majumdar in #9

It is called acting .... and hence entertainment

I think it’s quite offensive to legitimate psychologically unwell people to lump sum religious fanatics with them. That's one sorryass excuse.