Anti-Americanism in Pakistan and the Taliban Menace

Re: # 53 HP

Did it ever occur to you that there could be a thing called "Afghan Nationalism". The fact of the matter is that for the past 30 years their country has been ravaged by foreign superpowers one after the other. Several million Afghanis have been killed ever since due to foreign occupation and millions have been displaced for decades now. Putting everything in jihads account is wrong. But this is done with a purpose. The propaganda line is that that since Afghan freedom fighters are conducting a Jihad (a religious war) therefore it is wrong. But the fact of the matter is that no matter what you call it this war is nothing more than a nationist struggle against foreign occupation. And so is OBLs.

Every self respecting nation would have done the same. Sacrifices have been made and Afghans will fight until the last crusader is kicked out of their country whether they get help from Pakistani side or not.

On the other hand, while neo-colonial imperialists were pouring billions of dollars every week, a way lot cheaper measures could have been taken to seal the Pak-Afghan border. Americans do not want it because they have a bigger agenda and they want insurgency to continue, because it justifies their presence in the area; but corrupt military elite in Pakistan could have made its contribution to the so called WOT conditional, subject to the erection of such wall. Had they done that, no one would have been whining now.

Just as US-West-paki fouj nexus created talibans and mujahideens; the same assholes are responsible for creating Pakistani Talibans. Just as Afghan mujahideen took a life of their own, Pakistani Taliban will (or have)too. Once you empower someone you cannot request him to kindly relinquish his powers - it is as simple as that.

For our survival we must:

1. Hang Musharaf in the courtyard of lal masjid
2. Re-instate an independent judiciary.
3. Hold elections under this new judiciary to elect legitimately representative national government.
4. Americans must be dealt with. They must be contained with in Afghanistan. The insurgency there must be supported to keep them busy over there.
5. Wall must be built to seal off Pak-Afghan border.

It cannot be done, unless napak military is contained by Pakistani citizens first. It is no use to put dharna in front of a neutered parliament, but it is imperative that foujis all around the country must be hounded and boycotted. It is incumbent upon every Muslim Pakistani to socially boycott every fouji family in the country. Shopkeepers must stop selling to them. People must stop having social interaction with them. They must be told the kind of pigs they are. Dahrana must be placed in front of Army house and every cantonment. Dharna must be placed in front of every foujis house, even at the rank of a sipahi. If they have chosen to act and behave as foreign agents, then we must treat them as such too. We must tell them to get the fukk out of our country and go fukk themelves in canada or something, assholes.

#50 Posted by Urstruly
“If first three characters are so corrupt and manipulative then they will keep making talibans fight, no matter what. In other words the real culprits in all this bloody games is whom you and Hoodbhoy are trying to support. A pro-western corrupt military regime. and you keep finding ways to justify violenec against pakistani citizens.�

Wow! You need to read my post with open eyes and ponder over what is in there. The instinctive, kneejerk response is not making you look good. I have clearly not supported the Pak army in my post. You forget that I am even condemning the US for not investigating the shit out of these buggers. The connection that I made is for people who can figure out a few things on their own and don’t need hand holding. I am disappointed that you are accusing me of justifying the violence. I am instead suggesting that the Pak army is out there to kill some innocent people on someone else’s behalf.

You are just upset that I am calling Taliban the ISI creation and mostly of criminal background at least in FATA. The faster you guys come out of the Islamic jihad thingy the better it would be for the country. The whole thing was designed for a purpose and you were sending everyone with a beard to fight the war. That has permanently damaged the country. Some day you will figure out why there were so many bearded Pakistanis in every picture in 2002 to 2005 and why there are so few now. You guys have been had, made fool of and turned in to marshmallows by the Pakistani and the foreign agencies you deride often.
Also read my post #34. That will open your eyes.

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#27 Posted by zeemax
“ the Mangal Bagh group is basically the narco-mafia of Khyber Agency manned by abductors for ransom and hired assassins of the famed Khyber Agency's 'Ilaqa Ghair', propped up by the intelligence agencies as a buffer to Taliban making advances into Khyber Agency. This seems to confirm my earlier suspicions but questions remain.�

Zee, I have been saying this all along that these guys are criminals and work for intelligence agencies. Finally, you have come to your senses and realized that Islamic jihadis in FATA are just criminals out to make some money from one secret agency to another. They have no problem with who is the giver ISI, CIA, KHAD, Iranian, Chinese, or the Russians. Your Islamic Jihadis are just criminals, money grabbers, murderers, drug smugglers, and petty thieves.

There was no Taliban advance towards Peshawar or into Khyber Agency. This was a façade created by the Pak army for show of force in FATA.

Your Hero Baitullah Mehsod is another criminal and an ISI paid servant. Things are moving fast and no one can hide the truth in Pakistan for long!

#25 Posted by pavocavalry
RAVI RIKHYE ON ISLAMISATION IN PAKISTAN

“Point The Third IHT quotes a state ruling party member (the party is moderate) as saying he believes the Taliban group around Peshawar has been created by Pakistan ISI.
You can take it that any Pakistan group fighting in Afghanistan is ISI. The original Taliban were ISI and so are the new Taliban.
US likes to pretend that ISI is some kind of independent power in Pakistan and that parts of it are rogue. Please understand that the the ISI is no independent power. It 100% represents the Pakistan Army and to a lesser extent the other services. There are NO rogue elements worth mention in the ISI: almost everything it does is sanctioned by the army's commanders.�

Up to this point Ravi is right on the money. There are no rogue elements in ISI and no Taliban sympathizers’ either. They are doing what was asked of them. I have always liked to read Ravi and his analysis and obviously, he is a well briefed Indian agencies operator. However, he very quickly turned around and raised the bogey of “we are picking up that Pakistan is preparing to take its new war against India to the next level;�

I would say that India is ready to stir up Kashmir so that Indian work in Afghanistan is justified. Just watch this.

“We cant go into details, but "our" Pakistani are authentic and you can believe us or not, but we can assure you that the balance between Islamists and non-Islamists in the Pakistan Army has decisively, perhaps irrevocably tipped in favor of the Islamists. […] what was previously kept hidden in the last eight years for fear of America is gradually coming into the open, though the Pakistanis are still scared of America.�

If it was not Ravi, I would have just laughed it off but he really is making a case that Pakistan would once again unleash the Islamic Jihadi in Kashmir. Again, as I said, he is preparing the grounds for Indian intelligence and diplomatic offensive in Afghanistan. I think India is prepared to increase its presence in FATA. Going on a diplomatic offensive now would pay off when Pakistan is deep in quagmire in FATA and trapped in a game that it can’t win.

There is not even an outside chance that the Pak army would go Islamic. Not now and not in future. That phase is history.

Re: # 49 HP

You and hoodbhoy are two sides of the same coin. Both of you you in your own ways justify violence and state terrorism on the citizens of Pakistan. Both of you portray sons of this soil as some kind of Martians who have just landed from another planet and are hell bound to destroy our planet. With all political and judicial avenues closed, a dictator and a foreign agent sitting at top, a military that has turned itself into a mafia and a corrupt ruling elite, whose only purpose in life is to plunder pakistan, an illegitimate and unrepresentative civilian government, what do you expect people to do?

If dictator, a corrupt and out of control military, and extremely dangerous intelligence agencies are playing this bloody game so that dollars keep flowing, then why talibans. If first three characters are so corrupt and manipulative then they will keep making talibans fight, no matter what. In other words the real culprits in all this bloody games is whom you and Hoodbhoy are trying to support. A pro-western corrupt military regime. and you keep finding ways to justify violenec against pakistani citizens.

“Tragically for Pakistan, American hypocrisy has played into the hands of Islamic militants. They have been vigorously promoting the notion that this is a bipolar conflict of Islam, which they claim to represent, versus imperialism. Many Pakistanis, who desperately want someone to stand up to the Americans, buy into this.
This is a fatal mistake. The militants are using America as a smokescreen for their real agenda. Created by poverty, a war-culture, and the macabre manipulations of Pakistan’s intelligence services, the militants want more than just to fight an aggressor from across the oceans.�

Dr. Hoodbhoy half truths and not facing the reality diminishes your role. Can we look deeper in to the smokescreen and determine who is actually behind the smokescreen?

The learned Doctor claims that the American hypocrisy played in the hands of the Islamic militants. How truthful is that? How about this: the idiot militants have played in to the American hands. Would anyone with a little common sense believe that these ragtag uneducated petty criminals in FATA can manipulate the ISI? ISI is one of the most sophisticated, battle tested, trained in the finest US training centers intelligence outfit. The ISI has worked with the US for over thirty years; they are no fools manipulated by the likes of Mullah Omar or Baitullah Masood who have never even seen a good college in their whole life. Dr. Sahib you are drinking the Kool-Aid too fast and too much.

Did Taliban create the ISI? The fact is that the ISI created Taliban then how come the same Taliban are now manipulating the ISI. It is the other way around. The Taliban are very smartly manipulated by the Pak army, its intelligence agencies like the ISI and some foreign agencies.

The US and NATO estimate that there are about 10,000 Taliban fighters in Afghanistan. Doctor Sahib you are an educated and a very smart person but you fail to figure out yet another simple fact that 10K fighters cannot take over Afghanistan what to talk of Pakistan. The number is good enough for a guerrilla fight but not for taking over a country. We don’t live in the pre sixties era when a small bunch of guerrillas took over Cuba.

What is the US hypocrisy? Was it not shifting the terror battle from Afghanistan to Iraq? Iraq had nothing to do with Terrorism. It did not take long for the US to lose the moral high ground when the lies for the Iraq war were exposed. The US admin lost credibility and now a majority of Americans is questioning why the US did not capture Osama and why the afghan campaign not concluded when it should have been, way back in 2002.

Was it not the US hypocrisy when the US did not examine the Pak army and the ISI role with regards to 9/11? It is on record that the ISI chief wired $100k to the gang before 9/11. Why the ISI chief not questioned when he was in the US on 9/11? He was breakfasting with the chairman of the Senate Intelligence committee on that dreadful morning. Why he was allowed to fly out immediately after the wire transaction was disclosed?

So what is the deal in FATA? You turn any stone in the tribal area in Pakistan and you will find two hustlers, smugglers, drug dealers, and thieves hiding behind there. The whole Islamic drama and the Taliban is just another scam. The scam is more organized and much more sophisticated because the people behind that are not just the ISI. Ask yourself two simple questions: why the NATO armies won’t fight the Taliban and why the US is so hesitant to put its forces against the Taliban.

The US wants the Pak army to kill some in FATA and their next of kin to in turn suicide bomb Pakistan and the game would continue. The cycle of violence would continue. The money would keep flowing in and yes, some stupid in Pakistan would believe that the Islamic victory is around the corner.

The Pakistani Talibans are just criminals. Pakistan just created another Taliban against the old Taliban. The game would continue for as long as there is a need for the war on terror. The global interests have long superseded the real war!

tahmed buddy, how is that democracy thing coming in pakistan? I recall you were jumping all around celebrating like a little bangladeshi on a camel....how this time its different? who are you supporting now? the camel I hope!!

pandit hamidm: ommm.....shanti....what irrationalities are we airing today?

HP #34 "Taliban and Islamists are a bunch of petty criminals and people are beginning to figure that out too. "

True. Bush and co. never figured thism out too - as the British PM Brown pointed out when he said the response to 9/11 should have been a simple anti-crime action, rather than inflating it into a "War on Terror".

Thus, today the Nation has this revealing story:

Pak-Nato joint action on Afghan border

KHOST (Agencies) - NATO and US troops killed dozens of militants on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border, officials said Tuesday, after the foreign forces suffered their deadliest month since the fall of the Taliban.

US-led helicopters and bombers killed 33 insurgents in eastern Khost province late Monday, while NATO soldiers in the same area cooperated with Pakistani troops across the frontier to kill several more rebels, they said.
..ISAF, co-ordinating with the Pakistan military, responded with air strikes, artillery and rocket fire, causing the militants to flee into Pakistan, it said....

Meanwhile, four persons were killed during a shootout between two rival groups ..to settle a goats’ theft clash.


So: here we have 21st Century NATO forces with all their technical sophistication fighting..guys who are still fighting one another over goats!!

Re: # 43

kaal, the clown, does have an "interesting" view point... his unabashed support and sympathy towards islamism and other such bedouin voodoo ideology is kind of unique...

islamists do take him seriously - and that may not be a bad thing... like hamid pointed out, islamists are all geared up to self-destruct and kaal is just egging them on... Not a bad thing at all...

Re: # 41

ajeya,

.... i agree with you - the whole lot is crazy but the lunatic fringe is ready to blow - it is one dynamite stick short of a suicide belt ...... and your friend eklavya is ready with the match stick to light the fuse ..... he is a true indian patriot

yaar I don't know, why you guys even take the fool seriously. I summed him up in #29. he is a clown

Re: # 39

hamid is right... pakis should be careful about a hanood saying sweet words... Kaal is the ultimate hanood, he has a knife hidden in his armpit... :)

#39 hamidm2

[..... eklavya is a true hindoo nationalist who wants the pakistani people to destroy themselves - that is why he is always encouraging the lunatic fringe of the crazy paki society .... he is like the man who stands on the street encouraging the suicidal fool to jump ......i wouldn't be surprised if he was on thackery's payroll ..... ]

hamidm,

The fringe might be lunatic, but the rest of the society, while not lunatic, is infected with Islam, and acts as the breeders of future lunatics that keep popping up here and there from WITHIN the non-lunatic mainstream.

Therein lies the problem.

Over the centuries some Muslims have struggled to get out of the "system". Maybe Ahmediism is a way out. Or that Persian Bahai thing. While all are equally idiotic, at least these are less violent, and less dangerous alternatives.

#38 chaltahai

[he means to say, there are actually minorities in India of note. not a random traffic cop sardar...actually never mind..he is not a traffic cop no longer :) ]

I realize that he is possibly being sarcastic. but my point was that sarcasm is only effective when people get it. If they don't, then what you are saying is being construed as the literal truth - and has the same effect as if you are NOT being sarcastic.

So therefore, he is assisting in propagating a lie. No matter what his motivation might be. He should be smart enough to realize this.

Re: # 37

ajeya,

..... eklavya is a true hindoo nationalist who wants the pakistani people to destroy themselves - that is why he is always encouraging the lunatic fringe of the crazy paki society .... he is like the man who stands on the street encouraging the suicidal fool to jump ......i wouldn't be surprised if he was on thackery's payroll .....