An Ode Called Amritsar

Why do all these posts have nothing to do with the article?

ignoramous babbler shh2/senna,

Dinesh and Dilip have only one thing in common their last name. Dilip an old friend, has become little nutcase in BS company but still a well intentioned good soul.

Seems this sight is owned by ahmed2 and hmdim. Good luck BSites. The world on the next bend with China, Russia and India knows that the munna BS & BD need to be destroyed for the world peace.

#127

Contd from your post in UP .




How can Hindu 1

Who eats meat /beef

Doesnt abort or have gender selection

Dosent burn bride

Doesnt take dowry

marries all castes

doesnt perform sati

Doesnt drink pee

does NOT drink beer (drinking som ras must for hindu)

Lets his widow sister marry

Divorces his wife

Does not beat nari dhol pashu sudr

Doesnt wear dhoti

does not know sanskrit like guru

reads only Rabindro nath Sawami & not ramayan Mahabharat

How can he be Hindu 2
AND IF YOU SAY THEY CAN

MUSLIM 1 is SUB SECT !


.We all can have that right ...Brahmosamaj Aryasamaj Anad Margi even Sardar are having dera Sacha Sauda .

Re: # 137



Seeds of peace has been running similar camp for Isarelis and Palestenians .







'Dilip D'souza (a journalist of a particularly left leaning)'

Desouza is using his christian card very well and is kattar neo con rt wing republican .Loved by Robertson to bad mouth hindu india

Re: # 129 interesting truth about rich kids visiting usa and meeting ape kids.

"Sridharsaar I would not read too much into the comments from the participants of such camps. They are nothing but rich kids out to spend their summer vacation in the good old US of A and this camp provides them an easy visa and travel opportunity. The number of kids coming to these camps in the scenic state of Maine are less than 20 kids per year. Also these kids are the Indian Rape equivalents who see this as a resume builder when they apply to Under Grad schools for some liberal arts program in the geoplitical space. This camp experience bodes well for them as it adds to their credentials where none exist.

Dilip D'souza (a journalist of a particularly left leaning) wrote about one such camp in 2002 (Rediff column from Aug-14-2002 ) followed by a slide show piece in Aug-28-2007 again on rediff ('The youth are the future, especially in South Asia'). I think this is just a mini-me chai-biskoot session for some underinformed and overprevileged kids."

Joining hands for peace


By Rajmohan Gandhi


MANY in India have been troubled over the charge publicly levelled by a senior official that Pakistan’s agencies planned the bombing of the Indian embassy in Kabul, and over suggestions that Indian agencies should consider retaliating in like fashion against locations in Pakistan where hits against Indian targets are allegedly planned.

If New Delhi had found evidence of the ISI’s role in the destructive act in Kabul, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee should have confronted their Pakistani counterparts with it. If the evidence was confirmed, the Indian premier should have solemnly presented it to the Pakistani and Indian peoples, and to the world.

Given the power and secrecy of the subcontinent’s intelligence agencies, anything, it is true, can occur. Yet if extremist pro-Taliban groups in Afghanistan and in Pakistan’s tribal areas have on numberless occasions targeted Pakistani leaders and its security forces for supporting the US-led war on terror, the Indian embassy in Kabul would also be a natural target for them.

Apart from the fact that Indian backing for the war against terror has been unambiguous and well known, India’s role in the reconstruction of Afghanistan’s infrastructure also invites the Taliban’s hostility. Therefore assertions in New Delhi (or Kabul) that a Pakistani agency rather than one of Afghanistan’s Taliban-related extremist groups attacked the embassy have to be backed by solid evidence.

And if the ISI or sections of it are indeed in cahoots with the Taliban, it is the people of Pakistan who should worry the most and devise steps necessary to break the unholy alliance. In the struggle against the threats of extremism and terrorism, the people of Pakistan are the Indian people’s natural partners, and a key constituency for Indian leaders perturbed by the threats.

In fact the Kabul incident should trigger a much-needed partnership between the people of Pakistan and the people of India. Pakistanis should demand from Islamabad the truth about the charge that an intelligence agency was involved, and Indians should likewise ask New Delhi how its agencies quickly reached the conclusion that not pro-Taliban extremists but the ISI was responsible.

People on both sides of the India-Pakistan border (and on both sides of the Pakistan-Afghanistan border) have the right to know the facts about the embassy bombing, for their security is at stake. And if security agencies are engaged in dirty work or in disinformation, then the peoples of Pakistan and India must jointly take up the daunting yet inescapable task of putting the agencies in their place.

To take our countries back from the agencies may well be the need of the hour. Ministers are our servants, and the agencies our servants’ mazdoors. Of course servants too are always entitled to respect, and to appreciation when they do their job well. I for one refuse to endorse the assessment of some of India’s Pakistan-watchers that elected leaders will prove worse than the military in dealing with extremism. The late Bhutto’s powerfully articulated rejection of extremism is a strong legacy that is shared, as far as I can see, across the spectrum of mainline Pakistani politics, by PML and ANP leaders as by the PPP. However, for figuring out effective ways of addressing grievances and defeating extremism and terrorism these politicians may need to consult more closely with one another across party, provincial and ethnic divides, and also with military and security experts.

Perhaps intellectuals on both sides of the Pak-India border should prepare an updated manifesto for the subcontinent. Some items on such a manifesto are obvious: mutual respect, including unreserved respect for the other nation’s independence; an equally unequivocal rejection of violence, whether direct or indirect, open or concealed, for solving internal, bilateral or international disputes; a clear rejection of the clash-of-civilisations theory; a solution for Kashmir acceptable to Kashmiris and to India and Pakistan; and a commitment to minority rights in both countries.

Also critical to such a manifesto, yet not so obvious in our dazzlingly globalised world, is a commitment to search for subcontinental and regional solutions instead of looking to global powers or a superpower for interventions. The US and China are formidable countries, and both India and Pakistan have tried to build relationships with them. Given the history of India-Pakistan mistrust, such relationships have seemed attractive.

Yet geography is stronger than history. Oceans and mountains remain large impediments even in the 21st century. For years India and Pakistan have tried to involve distant powers in their dealings with each other, with poor results. It is time to put the subcontinent first. Whether we like it or not, geography mandates coexistence. We can decide to enjoy what cannot be helped and seek to profit from it.

This does not mean that Pakistan should give up on its China links, or that India should turn its back on Afghanistan or on India-US relations. What it does mean is that India-Afghanistan or India-US links should not grow at Pakistan’s expense, or Pakistan-China links at India’s cost. It also means that our peoples should be vigilant against inviting external conflicts to the soil of the subcontinent.

We should acknowledge, in both India and Pakistan, not only the divisive roles of the agencies but also the hegemonic character of our societies. The arrogance of the high-born, the high-placed and the man with the stick is known to both countries. While Pakistan may not formally accept caste hierarchies the way India continues to do (despite progressive laws and the emerging political power of the so-called lower or ‘untouchable’ castes), Pakistani society seems to tolerate armed elites and private jails.

In India and Pakistan alike, muscle-power or gun-power is celebrated in posters and movies. In real-life interactions between the citizen and the policeman or the government functionary, the citizen usually comes off second best in both countries. Correcting this equation, and honouring the listening policeman or politician rather than the macho one, has to be part of our subcontinental manifesto. If despite disasters and misgovernance our economies have grown, the credit should above all go to the subcontinent’s hard-working and enterprising people. Our countries are on the move because of what our ‘common’ people grow, create, repair or remit, and the millions of vehicles they skilfully drive on hazardous roads.

Should we be betting on the subcontinent’s civil society, on the sanity and energy of our peoples? Though not permanent, hates and fears can after all continue for long, especially when politicians feed those fears and hates instead of working on education and healthcare. Still it may be a good idea to bet on our peoples and on their willingness to become partners. Better to bet thus and lose than concede that mutual destruction is the subcontinent’s destiny.

The writer is research professor at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign.

Anyhoo Kaal - you are going overboard with this "once a muslim, always one" theme... I understand your angle here, but it may not be true...

For example - Living in Dar-ul-Islam is part of being a true muslim... yet million of muslims jump to kafir lands, live under kafir systems and willingly present themselves to slaves of abominable secular systems in the West and elsewhere... A muslim living in such conditions, that too willingly for money, is never a true muslim in theory - yet they do it all the time in droves...

So things are not always on such black and white... there are millions muslims who are true patriots of indian nation(which at best is secular or at worst is hanood), while there are millions of hanoods who are traitors to the core - commies, for example...

While keeping in mind the dangers of islamism spreading, let's not lose sight of this fact... read the article on a new bollywood on movie this theme....

Re: # 133 kaal

Are you saying that Ras Bhai is a bad muslims because he believes in muslim-kafir friendship?... or is he just peddling that idea to put kafirs at ease, even though he doesn't believe in such idea?

"can Muslims themselves ask for denying jobs, education in IITs, IIMs, engineering coleges and medical colleges and give up property rights to remain Muslims?"

Guru, Islam fully understands the capabilities of non-Muslims - what they are capable of doing, and what lies well outside their thoughts.

Hard to know which is sillier - this way of some Hindus fooling themselves or nonsense like Ras bhai's # 129.

"can Muslims themselves ask for denying jobs, education in IITs, IIMs, engineering coleges and medical colleges and give up property rights to remain Muslims?"

Guru, Islam fully understands the capabilities of non-Muslims - what they are capable of doing, and what lies well outside their thoughts.

Hard to know which is sillier - this way of some Hindus fooling themselves or nonsense like Ras bhai's # 129.

Re: # 129 Ras,

These convent kids are Na Ghar Ke Na Ghat Ke! They should have gone to Bhendi Bazar to connect with poor Abduls and Salmas to know BS (BakiStan). How can they? They do not live in Mumbai, these kids live 2-D CNN Bombay.

Most of them get selected to go on phoran yatra because they are superficial bournvita cadburrey kids. Dont believe in them. New generation which competes for IITs, IIMs and IASs is different breed. mUch more confident in themselves and thinking along my lines. These are not Shiv Sena or BJP type. Name calling is not going to deter them.

We need to get rid of religions and let Dharma prevail. BTW I did not read any book and still does not. I rather interact from the lowest of the low in slums to the ones in Malbar Hill and Basking Rige/White Plains.

Probably I have done personally more for poor Indian Abduls and Salmas than ..

In despair I came to the conclusion that Islam is a dogma for dividing community/family/nation. It makes people rootless, self hating slaves of alien race.

Indian kids need to visit more times Shanghai, Ho Chi Minh City and Moscow than any western city to prepare for the world which is on the next bend. By mixing with BS &BD kids what would you gain?

Re: # 125:
"if you or anybody else thinks that Muslims will leave Islam for money, or for jobs, or for security, then they are going to be extremely disappointed. Muslims are not Hindus. Once a Muslim, always a Muslim - in thought, deed, and identity - no matter what."

can Muslims themselves ask for denying jobs, education in IITs, IIMs, engineering coleges and medical colleges and give up property rights to remain Muslims?

Is there one here from India and US to volunteer? Can we start from you Eklavya or Senna? I will personally come or send my representative to collect the keys of your house/flat and talk to your employer to get Dharmic equivalent or better replacement.

Oh! Muslims are ready for mit jane ko for the sake of Islam?

Look at Jinnah, the dracula, he played muslim card for political power.

India-Pakistan ties: Seeds of Peace in a foreign land

By Our Correspondent

WASHINGTON, July 20: “Books are not a reliable source of information when it comes to India-Pakistan relations,� says Keshav Pasari, a Bombay teenager.

Keshav, who never used the new name Mumbai in the conversation, is part of a team of 14 high school students from India spending 21 days with a team of 14 Pakistani students in the US capital. All Indians are from Bombay or Mumbai and all Pakistanis are from Lahore, which has remained Lahore. All the students agreed that the history taught in their schools is not reliable.

“If you need information about each other, take it from whichever source you can but do not trust the books you are taught,� said Keshav. Usman Chaudhry, his new friend from Lahore, agreed. “We should read neutral authors, international experts,� he said.

“Don’t demolish this wall or they will learn not to hate each other,� says a poem recited at a similar India-Pakistan gathering at the University of Wisconsin, Madison.“Brown skins, black eyes, black hair do not separate them, nor do their culture, food or dress; but their fears do, so let this wall remain.�

This group of 28 students decided to leave this wall behind and fly over to a strange land to know each other. And what they found? “I thought Pakistanis were rigid, unreasonable and they hated us,� said Keshav. “Now I know they do not.� He wanted to join the Indian army before he came to this “Seeds of Peace� camp. Now he does not.

“I will have to look for another profession because I do not want to fight Usman.� Saroj Merani, who teaches journalism at a Bombay college, comes from a Sindhi family whose parents were from Karachi and Rohri. Her students did a research project on Dawn, comparing it with Indian newspapers.

“Things are changing,� said Ms Merani who came with the group as a coordinator. “We are learning to know each other. We have to know each other.�

“See, we were together even when the rest of the world was drifting away, when continents were colliding with each other,� said Keshav.

He stopped there. No one in the group suggested that India and Pakistan should undo their borders and merge, as those of older generations often do. Pakistan’s Ambassador Hussain Haqqani, who also addressed the students, noted that it was a little too late to suggest merger. “It is like saying to a 60-year-old man that you had no right to be born because your parents should not have married each other.�

An Indian student got up after the ambassador’s speech and reminded him that three out of five items served at two separate receptions at the Indian and Pakistani embassies were the same: samosa, gulab jamun and chaat.

“Awesome,� said Isbah, a Lahore student, when asked to define her experience. “We need to know each other better.� The programme is organised by a group called Seeds of Peace, formed by a journalist, John Wallach, to promote peace between Arab and Israeli children.

In 2001, India and Pakistan were added to the list. Since then, seven groups have come to the camp from various Indian and Pakistani schools.

What I see in the present crisis in Islam is the fight over munafiqoons ........ the mulahs fighting to 'convert' the munafiqoons to sunnah compliant momeens...... whereas the western influences ensure that the munafiqoons become murtids irreversibly........

that is why the mullahs hate west.........because the western civilization is ensuring that the present day munafiqoons do not become sunnah compliant momeens!!!

Re: # 125

"Once a Muslim, always a Muslim - in thought, deed, and identity - no matter what."

That is false!! The moment a momeen child takes to western education and wears jeans and T Shirt (especially women folk) you have a munafiqoon getting created in the so called Islami country.

And more muslims are taking to western education than madarassa education.

More muslim munafiqoons are getting created than real Sunnat professing madarassa educated momeens.

The rate at which the munafiqoons are completely leaving Islam and becoming murtids is greater that those munafiqoons who ae becoming sunnat following momeens.!!

The murtids are increasing - despite propaganda of Islamists!! It is a silent and irreversible revolution in the momeen world that is soon going to be the biggest probelm for the Islamists!!

Re: # 106

"Hakim Unani dawakhana"

What has Unan to do with Arabia?

Why is it not called "Islami dawa"??

The fact is that Islam was a bedoiun civilization where the cure for almost everything was in Camel's urine and milk.

No frking vegetable or medicine grew in that arabic desert and they had to get Vaidyas and Hakims from other lands!!