Of Medical Students, Passports and Religous Tolerance

Guru maha dev

I listened to the audio posted by you .By god i thaught i was listening to Moulana ISRAR if not Moudoodi .Listen yo Israr atleast and all the deductive logic used by both of themis the same ,In fact Dr Naiks reparte is also same For example If some one says darkness they all say dont say darkness say ABSENCE of light,So on,, you can go lecturing endlessly

Re: # 277
Guru

"GOI should make 100% reservation in education, jobs and owning land to Dharmic/Indic people and all these god fearing poor Abduls and Salmas wil revert back to Dharma, and thus saved.'

What is Dharmic ..is it not MUCH closer to Islam than polytheism idolatory And Icon worshipping.You want to be proudly Idollator .Nothing wrong with that for Muslim.

But listen to Swami Viveka Nanda what he says .He says idollatory is only INFANCY of hinduism untill he /she mature to pray IDOLLLESSLY . that is in mind and imaginatinof endless immeasureable all knowing supreme being .That again what muslim believes about god Just look up the 100 more or more than hundred names of Allah and ask there meaning .God is abstract but u got to be muslim to pray without assistence of image

Btw does anyone have any idea how old masadi is ?
Out of curiousity..

From the gist of the rambling nonsense below in #273 the West and the US according to masadi and his acolytes, are intrinsically wrong in every regard being imperialists and having machinated against the interests of Pakistan etc etc.. through from the days of the British colonies to recently under US unilateral aggression and their naked imperialism.

His dedication to democracy seems rather schizophrenic. How can it be that the ideology of his enemy is so sacrosanct to him?

Perhaps it is because he himself in fact represents the interests of Western imperialism...

Or perhaps its because he doesn't really know what he's talking about and believes that if he makes enough meaningless noise someone might pay attention to him .. (it seems to have worked in the case of majumdar .. whom I think should be christened "Igor".

There are no democracies in the World which are not capitalist with perhaps the exception of Cuba which too is going that way.

Masadi watches too much TV it seems. The democracy of American PR and the lifestyle advertising agitprop which is beamed across the World ...( in so far as according rights and benefits to citizens over the interests of the capitalist and industry) does not exist and has not ever existed nor shall ever exist on planet earth.

To quote him..

"In other words, Pakistan should remain a feudal state with military dictators incorporting themselves with the feudals to dictate to the people as if they were their slaves! Fantastic recommendation. This person is an ignoramus. Without overthrowing the feudals the bourgeoisie revolution can never occur, it is simply not possible and didn't occur in Europe and certainly not in the US where a violent civil war ended all remants of feudalism that wanted to establish itself. Democracy has nothing to do with such economic systems of tyranny".

This rambling only goes to show you know nothing about the US or Europe and simply believe blindly in their advertising.

My dear masadi.. the US and Europe .. the so called bastions of democracy are in fact culturally, socially and politically seeped in feudalism to such an extent to make waderas from interior Sindh look like socialists... I know .. I deal with these people everyday. Wealth always remains crystallised, and this so called democracy you advocate only goes to revoke that pittance of welfare the Pakistani citizenry may receive by default in terms of stability of governance by the military. The civilian politicians just want to make money and are too illiterate or myopic to do anything else.. being the very feudals you seem to despise .. or do you .. ? more schizophrenia.

My low regard as you put it of civilians as mostly just petty profiteers, illiterate peasants, traitors and mullahs is not a statement of disputable opinion but simple fact.. look around you.

I nevertheless am not suggesting that Pakistan is not fit for democracy .. For whatever loyalties I have for Pakistan .. I'm merely suggesting that democracy is not fit for Pakistan. ... It most certainly is not what it appears to be.

Urstruly (#267),

The “last prophet� notion is a misplaced one, negated by Quran, ahadith, and some well-respected scholars of Islam (Shah Waliullah, Ibne Arabi, Jalal Uddin Room, et al). Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) clearly foretold appearance of a prophet among Muslims in the latter days.

Your ullema do not own Islam. And Ahmadis are well within their rights to consider themselves Muslims. The question now is … what are you going to do about it?

Twisting arms to enforce your faith is a sign of a defeatist outlook; you’ll continue to lose ... and that is uncool. Learn from kaal bhai who continues to hang on to mispalced notions from the past and fails to move on (grin) ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/07/20/do2001.xml

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most of these generated by you! You are the agent provocateur here

Hey everyone, remember post #4?

"Another useless article guaranteed to generate 10,000 fake clicks and 900 interacts!"

Re: # 269 gooN Ru

Wht don't you actually perish in your rage; when will you do it?

Anxiously awaiting your departure....

Posting on Masadi sahib's behalf:

Army apologist Leadenwinter writes "masadi & co & the concerned public Anyone who imagines that Pakistan can survive in any form without the military is utterly disconnected with reality to the extent of being delusional or malicious. "

WE have heard these same statements from every damn dictator that has sucked on the blood of the nation. Pakistan khatray mey hai, we will cease to be without the military so the military has to step in and do away with the legitmate government of the people and its demands. No longer do the people buy this India expanding, religion touting, barbarism of the Pakistan Army. Those in touch with "reality" know that the Pakistan Army has brought us to the condition we find ourselves in today and that is that the nation has ceased to be because the military on the payroll of the Americans for a good portion of our 60 year history has kept us in a colonized state.

Then he writes "(These first two groups are victims are of advertising and the last group consists of out local politicians and the CIA and the likes of masadi (who I'm sure is paid by some party adverse to national interests)."

I am on nobody's payroll, on the contrary those you support have been upon their own admission and the admission of their paymasters on the payroll of the Americans to whom they sold the soverignity of this nation without firing a single shot upon a phone call from Powell/Armitage...

Then he writes "Capitalist democracy is an intrinsically Western and European idea, and even most Western democracies did not extend franchise to the more disaffected and "ideologically challenged" elements of their citizenry until they were sure that they posed no challenge to the over-arching status-quo of the economy in question. "

There is nothing "capitalist" about democracy. Capitalism works against democracy by making the state a tool (or partner) with the corporatized economy to impoverish and extract surplus from the masses and the nation that the people are partners in. Democracy makes them a partner in the power structure if properly implemented through public institutions, when circumscribed by wealth, it gets translated into an establismentized "democracy" of the kind the Pakistan Army/US is pushing and the kind that is practiced to deceive the people in the US. There is nothing Western or Capitalist about incorporating the people into decision that affect their lives. Like I have busted your bs before, a dictatorship of the military sort as seen in Pakistan and as our history has amply revealed is more susceptible to outside influence and selling our soverignty than a people's democracy.

Then he writes "Prior to this the church and the aristocracy through sheer brute force built and held areas of land and populations as "nations" . The integrity of the nation is and remains integrally and implicitly sacrosanct and the democracy came later in phases as Western feudalism metamorphosed into capitalism."

Then he writes " Pakistan simply does not have this kind of capital. We are by no means a nation and there's no disputing that. Nor do we have the institutional integrity or indeed infra-structure (social or otherwise) to sustain a democracy. "

In other words, Pakistan should remain a feudal state with military dictators incorporting themselves with the feudals to dictate to the people as if they were their slaves! Fantastic recommendation. This person is an ignoramus. Without overthrowing the feudals the bourgeoisie revolution can never occur, it is simply not possible and didn't occur in Europe and certainly not in the US where a violent civil war ended all remants of feudalism that wanted to establish itself. Democracy has nothing to do with such economic systems of tyranny. We do not need to either maintain feudalism or to have an unchecked bourgeoisie revolution that oppresses the masses and we certainly do not need to have the kingship of the Pakistan Army.

The he writes "Pakistan's aspirations to democracy are like a caveman longing to buy a fighter jet and America's promotion of democracy is like selling fighter jets to cavemen because they know that nothing will come of the purchase except their own profit."

Nonsense, the people of Pakistan are not cavement even though the military dictators due to their policies want to convert them into hunter gatheres because they have looted the wealth of the state. The US does not push "democracy" in third world nations except as slogans, they support dictators of the Pakistan Army, work through them and have been using and working through them for almost all of our history, that was the purpose of the British creating Pakistan and then handing the mantle of this colonized, dependant on externals for defense with a simmering wound on its northern borders, to the Americans to use as a whore during the Cold War- not with the democratic governments of Pakistan but with the military dictators

Then he writes "There is no successful democracy is the World, which allows the public to decide as to any other issue other than the face of the dictator who shall rule them for the next term. This is true of every Western democracy which each have the institutional and social capital behind them to allow for this capricious little throw of the dice to decide the temporal direction of their nation....Democracy is only good for for this, not for nation building and not for the shaping of the very institutions that allow democracy to exist."


Only a PMA graduate with little to no knowledge of world affairs and of its history and the struggle of the people generalizes in this fashion. A lot of gains have been made by people struggling for their rights in America, in Europe and even in this nation and every struggle that produces these results pushed the nation so concerned towards "democracy" and away from the mere slogans of it. Dictatorships don't last because the people will not after a while stand by dictation. It is for this reason that the Americans even though they wish to operate under dictators push for circumscribed democracy after a while, the famous Pakistan Army/US "stop gap" forumula, but now the people are beginning to understand this BS and will not stand for it. The days of Army dictatorship and of Army apologists are over in Pakistan and after killing our nation, it will yet live again, by getting rid of these thugs.

Then he writes "These have to come from higher ideals such as patriotism and pride in nationhood and the concerted efforts of the powerful to the common end .. all things which Pakistanis and indeed Muslims can never achieve.The military may be incompetent bastards to a man.. but its all Pakistan has to show for itself in terms of institutional capital. Its actually all we have .. as the civilians are "mostly" just petty profiteers, illiterate peasants, traitors and mullahs. (emphasis on mostly for those who might get offended)"

What should one think of his so-called "left rhetoric" when he holds the people of this nation in such low regard, this is the hallmark of the Pakistan Army and its apologists they consider themselves a breed apart and even though they are illiterate and are fools themselves with a high school education (PMA), they think that the people of this nation who are well aware of their environment and the political climate are fools. Fool, if patriotism etc are higher ideals and if democracy has been used as slogan in those Western countries why not those "higher ideals"- and note this, the so called better developed public of those western nations are morons compared to the average Pakistani who has been made self and class conscious because of circumstance.


Then he writes "If the military loses power, Pakistan will cease to be. If Iran is to be invaded and India's economy is to be checked Pakistan must destabilise. As I have maintained before.. the US instigated these previous elections in a bid to destabilise.. since then this is the third time Obama brought up the issue of invasion."

Yeah yeah we have heard all this before from Ayub, from Yahya, from Zia and from Musharraf and now from this apologist of the Army. Pakistan ceased to be when the Army attained power and sold us to their highest paymaster and became the whore of the West. It came to be again after ZAB formed the constitution, only to be killed by that sob Zia. Pakistan is dead but the lawyers movement and other assorted movements for democracy are working hard to bring it back to life, the day that it does come back to life, will be when this nation's ghadar Army ceases to be and a new Army takes shape. Till then let it work with the Americans and Obama to break up Pakistan, like it did in Bangladesh, the people of Pakistan, our brave people will rise to the occassion and reclaim their nation and their souls that this miserable institution has taken away from them, at the point of the gun.....,

Regards

PS: Masadi sahib has not been released from detention even after 3+ days when the detention was supposed to be for 24 hours.

Re: # 267 Truly

Brother, may I correct you when you say "He is the last Prophet of God, according to HIS teachings"?

It was primarily God's Word that supported the foundation of THIS claim in 33:40 and which the Q-cumbers have twisted in THEIR favour; thanks to the British Crown's fullest support!

Re: # 262 GooN Ru
"Aren't you Islamists devillish APEs?"

A case of the kettle calling the pot black!

Perish in your rage Islam-hater; we love the religion created for all mankind by the One God!

The spirituality/Dharma/god exists but the religion never existed and never will. There is nothing like religions, it is only gathering of mentally sick.

"He is the last Prophet of God, according to his teachings. Therefore, Muslims have absolutely no problem a person calling himself a prophet as long as he does not call himself Muslim and his religion Islam."

Mo was not only the last prophet but the last follower of the religion which he founded in the cave for the cave dwellers of the time he was in the cave. The religion died the moment he steped out of the cave.

So, you must not call yourself Muslim and your religion Islam or whatever Mo called his legion in that cave of 7th century Arabia.

So the Qadianis are the ones who are terrorists? Taking notes now, thanks, Urstruly, for setting things right.