Musharraf's Resignation and Beyond

Pakistan will never have democracy because most Pakistanis utterly lack the insaniyat which is its necessary prerequisite and which requires an ability to rise above one's religious bigotry which has been handed down from the past generations and which has been reinforced at its source by none other than Mahomed Ali Jinnah.

Pakistan will never have democracy (except perhaps in name) because it was set up, by design, as an Islamic entity and at its core it is incompatible with the concepts of plurality and is unable to treat non-Muslims as equals.

My sympathies to the awaam as the usual culprits get ready for the next tango.

Alslaam-o-Alaikum.

I have joined the forum after a long time.

This passage from Bina’s article is of interest.

“America is perceived as one of the major factors keeping him in place, as a key ally in the ‘war on terror’. Washington has now started realising the need to back the people of Pakistan and the elected government rather than an unelected president and army. The ‘war on terror’ cannot be won by military means alone. It is important to support the political process and take the people along.�

All Pakistanis know it that it was never allowed to be a democracy by the USA who always supported dictators in Muslim countries in the belief that dictators can be easily forced into doing what Americans want them to do rather than to get involved in long processes of parliamentary government. My Observations:

1. USA’s aid to military remained highest under military dictators and lowest under democracy.

2. Common Pakistanis were tortured by the West with a double-edged sword – forcing dictators down our throats who supported extremism to keep themselves going and then using us as a whipping boy in not having democracy and becoming breeding grounds of terrorists.

3. That Pakistanis love democracy cannot be denied. We have always struggled for making Pakistan a democratic country. We were handed 3 martyred popular prime ministers by the dictators or their agents. West never came to our aid.

4. Unlike any other country of the world as far as I can remember, Pakistan is a product of a democratic process. Here is a clip from Wikipedia to this effect:“In the Constituent Assembly elections of 1946, the League won 425 out of 496 seats reserved for Muslims (and about 89.2% of Muslim votes) on a policy of creating an independent state of Pakistan, and with an implied threat of secession if this was not granted.� Let bygones be bygones. Pakistanis need to move forward. Like Pakistani Islamic scholar Ghamdi says, “There is no substitution for democracy. Why do we talk of making Pakistan an Islamic state or a secular state? Let us make Pakistan a democratic state. Democracy itself will bring in what people want from its leaders.�

Bina, thank you very much for writing this article.

Sincerely,

Welcome back, Ahmadzai. It's been a long time.

USA and India have kept Pakistan from attaining true democray. When nation stated India annexed mercylessly State oF Nizam ( which survived more than Mughal empire and Indian "democray" invaded helpless state and made HH Nizam Pauper and low paid pensioner). That was indirect starting war on Pakistan. Then invaded Kashmir and occupied Kashmir. So pakistan was put on war footing even though they wanted friendship with Indians. So Pakistan was in all war going situation. That gave omnipotent position to army and democracy agenda had no value when existance was at stake. BIGGEST supporter of dictetorship and army of Pkistan was Indian Democrasy. They allowed and developed democracy in their country and cut armry to size just as branch civil govt. While they wanted to push back Pakistan in dark ages so supported Pakistani army by indirectly keeping Covert and overt war. Then what all people were thinking came true when india army march on east Pakistan and broke pakistan.
This created siege mentality in army and people. The only think state think of was making army strong and well equiped. When enemy has broken your home only people think of army to protect them. Some may say Indian act was not deliberate but it does not matter the damage was done.
Now america has done more damage but atleast they pay. But americans suppoer army to rule Pakistan and as they micromanage so much now democracy is not possible. NRO is american trick to control rulers and PPP. This is effectively done.
India is 80% responsible , usa is 20% responsible making democracy unviable in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

#4 the US and India did not come out with guns to kill peaceful demonstrators - the mqm (which you support did).

and the truth is that india and the US are democratic nations where the rule of law has been steadily strenghtened.

hypocrisy and lies did not spare your "rising sun" musharraf. they will not spare mqm and zardari either. because truth is "khuda ki lathi" - and truth ultimately prevails.

Ahmedzai: welcome back.

please dont follow the easy course of repeating the conventional wisdom in Pakistan which treats the US as some kind of an omnipotent being without whose permission "even a bird may not fall". Rather than a nation with legitimate self-interest in fata - namely, preventing the armed bands of men hiding their from conducting future 9/11 type disastrous attacks on it. If musharraf cared as much for the safety of the Pakistani people, he would have joined hands with the US to eliminate these thugs once and for all. Instead, he made a career out of it by playing both sides of the fence.

As for the US influence, think about this: the military did not interfere in Feb 18 elections - and what changed was not the US, but the C-in-C on the army: the lawbreaker musharraf being replaced kiyani whose actions have shown him to be serious about his duties, unlike the self-promoter musharraf. What reasonable conclusions does one draw from this?

Re: # 5 Please leave obsession with Karachi,MQM, Quaid E Awam Altaf Hussain. He has come out to support mr. Zardai for president as he wants power controlled by native Sindhi. This because as there is unfortunately no better candidate. As they blood is thicker than water as new sindhi and native sindhis can work out problem. MQM is democratic than any party and non dynastic. All others can learn from MQM unity, decipline and faith. Sad part is MQM candidate can do better justice but they have numbers as only progressive modern people vote for MQM. All others vote on caste, ethinic , tribal and what not. Please keep out crtiticism of MQM. Now all mess done will be done by others, only MQM will give support to give stability to govt. Mr. Zero and Hero can learn lot from Altafbhai. He rarely leaves London and works all time for his social, political work. He can also goon tours. Altafbhai belives in intensive work working at MQM international HQ.Hope Zero and Hero spend some time at home than all time going out of country.

Re: # 7 I do not support anybody, only people who wants to good and help people of Karachi.Only MQM fills the bill.Even astute observer and who have travelled many countries , and management consultant (High Tech) like Romair has said MQM has only modern charasteristic . ( He is not fan of MQM but he has to admit others do not as his military specially airforce background makes him give honest opinion and write diplomatically.
Again Please do not write anything bad about MQM as due to ignorance and prejudice you have totally wrong opinion. You can avoid mistakes by not saying anything .
You are ignoring violent people like BLA and tribal lakshars and going after MQM ,now some times oppressed peoples anger goes out of control like PPP wallahs took opportunities just to loot after demise of Mrs. Bhutto. If you remember some bad things happened in Karachi and Altafbhai decided to Resign.That is called leadership. He wants political struggle by peaceful way like mr. Gandhgi. Altaf likes peace so he said good words about mr. Gandhi, though we know he was no good as many indians like mujumdar have also said
Good day.

Unfortunately when people cruticise MQM there is lots of recism and color prejudice. Now Panjabis or Sindhi all others are not real white like real europrean They are wanabi white( comapred to indians and afroicans) but never be truely considered white. Unfortunately. I am sorry but that is truth.

Ahmedmadani sahib,

Good morning. It is always refreshing to read no bs, straight from the gut stuff from you.

BIGGEST supporter of dictetorship and army of Pkistan was Indian Democrasy. While they wanted to push back Pakistan in dark ages so supported Pakistani army by indirectly keeping Covert and overt war.

Sadly, there is an element of truth in it. Although it may have been accidental and not fully intentional. Also the Indian leadership exported some undesirable characters like Molana Maudoodi in 1947 to Pakistan to create chaos there.

Regards

Madani sahib,

ours is a racialized world thanks to Euro/American over lordship in world affairs. It is of little surprise that when someone wants to devalue a group it will imitate the practices of their "lords and masters", and try to place their opponents in the lower rungs of the color line. That said, the MQM is overly ethnocentric itself and that certainly does not help regarding national identity. Support of anti state elements like the dictator Musharraf, indulging in ethnic and political violence on their behalf and having a "Quaid" who makes moronic speeches from overseas are also negatives that the party should revisit.

Thank you for your kind attention and generous support,
Have a good day,
TNI Masadi

Re: # 10, 20% responsibility is american as through greed of out politicains and army officers they have made them slaves who will kill muslim brothers just to have few hundred dollars in pockets. And this is not liked by any moral people and so they are punished by nature. Now all recent problems on north western fronts are due to greed of dollars and lots of people are going to be wiped out in this till army comes to senses. Now when mr. Kayani flew topay homage to USA military man and pick up cheques who is in charge kayani or Zero or Hero ? Both dead drunk with big hunt of Musharaff they are not even acting effectively. Robot PM goes to usa and says It is pakuistani war. Money makes slave is true. Where is democracy when general decides importanyt aspects war where is democratic control of zero or hero. All farce American keep them and have no values more than Chaparasi.
But we will go through all farce and its on auto pilot.

g'night

Re: # 11 Masadi you are powerful in think as you tell truth.
I have learned lot from your writing , some times i may not agree with all. But basic thesis is Dandy and on point.
Due to i have lost my fair color pride and I have great understanding which transcends color barrier though it is still hard. Mr. T always critise me Recist etc is wrong. He does not understand preference is different than discrmination. Unfortunately this recist people are even in Saudi arabia where materially it is better than usa.
British have left India but still we are slaves and all this beautification of making pale face by indo paki men and women is kind of White race worshipping at great artistic level. Some times I get Frustrated even after 200 years deshi brown brit slaves/ sahibs will be going church of white boss worshipping Church.
I am very happy for your change good for you and you can conveypolitely your thoughts.

Pt. Manadarji,

"having a "Quaid" who makes moronic speeches from overseas are also negatives that the party should revisit."

There used to be another Quad (aka Dracula aka MAJ) who also gave bombastic speeches and in idealistic verbiage in desi land but were actually meant for overseas white audience. This new Quaid is following the original one but in reverse way. He "makes moronic speeches from overseas" for desi audience. Nothing changed in 61 years.

Re: # 4
ahmed....

Kind of stupid comment...
Have you forgot, how Pakistani establishment treated Mujibur Rehman?

Indian democracy was not in good shape upto late 80s. Congress monopoly was not less harmful than your army capturing power in Pakistan. Now, Indian democracy is far better.