Dr Afia Siddiqui's Case

The article is so true and i praise the genius ans sensitivity of the writer Yes we can not brush aside all the atrocities!
hope everyone can recognise the grim situation and___'Do' something abt it as well!

#43 masadi:

Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance --George Bernard Shaw

Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a last week.

CIA mike writes "Faisal.K:

We need more Pak patriots like you to stop this madness"

We do not need fanatics like Faisal K that outdo the fanatics of the mullah variety in the destruction they cause. I understand that you CIA freaks want to escalate the problem on our borders and want through your methodology to mainstream the mullah and these morons like Faisal K are the "useful idiots" (like Musharraf) that you want to use to destroy our nation, but believe me there are those in that country who will make you and your goddamned moronic imperialism fail, and fail it will.

You call this intelligence or patriotism Faisal K writes "
We can cry bloody murder all we want for what happened to Afia but even today militants hurled grenades into a mosque during taravih."

A prime example of using unrelated events mixed with illogical emotionally charged connections to justify injustice. Tahmed sahib, salam and greetings of peace, search your conscience before you write supportive naats regarding the CIA mike and this moron Faisal K.

Have a nice day,

TNI Masadi

#40 Mike: We already have enough Pakistanis patriots like Faisal - the ones who voted the puppetmeister musharraf along with this puppets (the mullahs and corrupt politicans) out of power (the national assembly was stuffed with bearded men under musharraf's "guided elections" e.g., and those were all booted out by the Pakistani people).

What we could use more of is people in the Bush Administration capable of understanding the importance of the lawyer's movement in Pakistan (something the lawyer community all across the US has understood and supported).

Faisal.K: Good point.

So Pakistanis have to fight a two-front battle. First with the puppets (afia and co) and then with the puppetmeisters (rogue generals zia and musharraf, one of whom gave mullahs teeth and the other covered their ass in fata while pretending to be fighting them).

The only way to fight this difficult battle is to be internally strong by having the rule of law in place. In that case, each terrorist action would be properly investigated (using modern forensic tools which I have no doubt the US and other potential targets outside Pakistan of the terrorists would be glad to provide), and the culprits brought to justice.

With Zardari's sabotage of the lawyer's movement for an independant judiciary, I think this battle has remains almost as confused as it was under musharraf. By "disappearing" afia along with her young children for 5 years, her legitimate rights (even suspects and criminals have rights in a lawful society!!) have been trampled over - and thus, a common criminal has been turned into a political figure. (if this para. sounds confusing, it merely reflects the realities that we need to understand in Pakistan if we are to win this two-front battle).

Faisal.K:

We need more Pak patriots like you to stop this madness.

We can cry bloody murder all we want for what happened to Afia but even today militants hurled grenades into a mosque during taravih. People are dying every day in our country!! Who is going to answer for their deaths? Is it worth saying b.s words and playing knights to our sister in plight when she might have been one of those responsible for perpetrating this madness in our lives? Think long and hard before jumping the gun people.

Author,

You want powerful folks to become accountable to the average Joe?

Like the senior madame in "Umrao Jaan" said...

Gadha ghaas se dosti karega...
Toe khayega kya?

#27 contd...

to be prophet and treat same way like the tribals of FATA. If Pakistan wants to de-islamise, it should start from teh capital itself.

I will pick up some bad example in India too. VHP activist Dr. Praveen Togadia, who is very instrumental in making the tribals of Gujrat and MP "Hindooooo"....

#27 Ahmed...
This is the reason, muslim countries don't support Pakistan when India-Pakistan matter related to J & K is concerned...
In one hand, you are asking for freedom for Kashmir moslems, where they have every right a democratic setup can offer and you are supporting Chinese regime in Xinjiang, who are flooding Han Chinese to change the demographic pattern in Xinxiang...

Majumder,
It is very difficult to revert back to civilisation for the people of FATA. When you see Red Mosque kind of stuff in the heart of capital, what do you expect from the rest of Pakistan? Something civilised!!! Arab slavery and resultant barbarism deeply rooted in these areas for centuries. Even you set up school and colleges, how will you wipe out the slavery? These people are fighting in the name of mideaval arab beduine, which these so called "enlightened" Pakistanis believe.

Re: # 34
....do come in swings ...

apologies

Re: # 33; majumdar

it only took ONE generation under Zia to get us where we are now .... so, unless the process starts with some sincerity, nothing would happen .... ever!

second thing is, the brotherhood were crushed in early 1980s ... its been more than 2 decades and generally Syrinas are quite happy with their 'improved life-styles' brought about by less Islam in their outlooks overall!

and yes I agree, these things do come have swings and roundabouts ... but you can't expect a humble cogwheel such as myself to eliminate religion!! I'd like to, but unfortunately some 'weaker souls' do need their fairytales to help them sleep at night! .... I am speaking of 'containing' this monster ... at least in our lifetime

Cheema sahib,

The kind of change that you seek while good takes generation, sometimes even centuries. If you want to compress them into a five year plan, you risk bloodshed on an immense scale eg Russia, China, Afghanistan. And there is no guarantee that at the end of the day you will get a "good product"

As far as Syria is considered, Muslim brotherhood maybe crushed for now but there is no knowing what would happen a generation hence. Remember that Islam had been similarly crushed in the 5 stans of CA between 1918-1990.

Regards

Regards

Re: # 30; rabia

unfortunately chowk is a forum where a 'select few' "English-speaking" Pakistanis, with the help of expats of similar backgrounds, discuss matters they have very little insight in. They claim to represent them somehow when the reality on the ground is very different ..... it is reminiscent of many of our Oxford/Cambridge/Harvard educated leaders ... who have nothing in common with the masses, yet feel qualified to render solutions at the drop of a hat

and the Hafiz Asad solution did work!! Long live the name of a TRUE "Ameer-ul-Momineen" of his times!!

Re: # 29; majumdar sahib

I made good friends with someone in Sydney recently ... he is from that part of the world and until his arrival in Australia lived in a 'compound' his family/extended fam shared! ... managed to get away based upon some uni education/scholarship etc .... anyhow, what he said was that it was not until he arrived in a completely different culture (the west) that he knew anything about how the outside world lived! and this is from a uni educated person.

Needless to say, he wasn't even exposed to any "alternative" viewpoint until then .... now that he is, he feels and thinks very differently ... after having analysed the 'issues' from a distance for a few years .... that is the tragedy sir!

people in that part are only ever given the one option .... as for the alternative, they know nothing about ... irony is, this is regarded as the "people's will"!! how can it be when they have no decent opportunities for education, interaction with others, drinking/running water and "knowledge"; by knowledge I don't mean what one learns at school/uni but an "insight" into what life is about and what different options they may have .... this is taken to be "their life-style" that has to be maintained at all cost!! ... and that is called "their proud culture"; what's to be proud of in that exactly? ... just saying I am proud of something about myself doesn't add any substance to that pride!

please I urge all to give some consideration to the millions of suffering souls ... who'll continue to suffer ... be it in the hands of the Pakistanis, Americans, Taliban and whoever else ..... a complete turn around is required and in this process the Pakistanis have to play their part to set things right and not make them worse ... also, I strongly believe that without the basic know-how of what the various options there are available in the world, the so-called facade of democracy cannot and will not work in Pakistan ... people have become, rightly or wrongly,... sigle-minded in their thinking .... it has become the cultural norm to "blame the other" for one's shortcomings .... we either sort this menatlity out or perish as anything of significance in history ... simple!

majumdar: I think tahmed32 wants the pakistani army with the US danda behind it to take care of the problem. akcheema wants to go for the hafiz assad solution (the syrian army wiped out the muslim brotherhood in Syria in the 80s with measures like collective punishment of entire villages, and very civilian-targetted bombings). I'm not exactly sure what they're arguing about, to be honest.