US Commando Strike in Waziristan

#180 second para. "cost scores of lives" should of course be "cost scores of thousands of lives"

hamidm #178: i was hopeful for this outcome ("a megalomanic dictator has been removed and iraq has the first functioning democracy in that region ") that much-misrepresented chowk article that i wrote five years ago. And I had also provided the underlying basis for this silver lining that I saw in the invasion.

However, I had failed to take into account the incredible incompetence of the Bush administration, which failed to provide law and order after Saddam's overthrow, and that in turn cost scores of lives, trillions of dollars, and above all loss of focus on Afghanistan where the snake pit of the perpetrators of 9/11, namely al qaeda was based. Whether or not the outcome will justify the terrible cost is for historians to consider.

All I can say is - I have a good excuse (i.e. no one could have predicted the incredible oversights of the Bush Administration back in 2003). You on the other hand have no such excuse for ignoring that obvious fact and calling for a repeat in Iran of what would at best be a similar pyrrhic victory.

First the US wrestler(or weight lifter) deputy secretary Armitage threatened to bomb Pakistan into stone age, then Obama repeated that threat, now the actual raid into pakistani territory, is something working to plan here?

Re: # 171

et tu, hp ? ........... "US which went in Iraq w/o any provocation and reason?"

..... if there ever was a just war it is the war in iraq ...... it was a day late, a dollar short and the aftermath of a brilliant military victory was poorly executed, but it was a just war never the less ...... a megalomanic dictator has been removed and iraq has the first functioning democracy in that region since muhammad overthrew the legitimate government in mecca ...... it is still work in progress, but we have come a long way baby ! ......... next, iran ...... the civilized world cannot afford to wait while crazy dictators and mad mullahs tinker with nukes that will threaten mankind sooner or later ......

..... hp, stop whining and support your troops who will be in that region for the next fifty years .... we have to fulfill our manifest destiny

#176 akcheema

They might be top secret from US point of view but some of these techniques might be in use in Pakistan by US special forces? No? Does any one know anything unusual that was not done before to suspects?

Re: # 175; Pardesi
[[so effective (in Iraq/Anbar region) and top secret that he can not talk about it for long long time. Has any one heard about these new techniques?]]

they are "top secret" and you expect someone at Chowk to have heard about them??

Bob Woodword is on TV talk shows these days promoting his new book 'The War Within'.

He claims that US forces have developed "new techniques" to take care of Al Quada leaders and these techniques are so effective (in Iraq/Anbar region) and top secret that he can not talk about it for long long time.

Has any one heard about these new techniques?

Re: # 159

tahmed,

No one is taking your argument that the pakis are voting for mainstream political parties interested in roti...blah blah.

You should also accept that these are the very parties that support and sustain the hoodood, they are the parties that support the terror madrassas,..etc etc.

No one dares to change any of that because the abdul pakis with the dose of TNT and the ilks of you support the extreme islamist views enshrined in hoodood, the very law that prevents samia sarwar murderers being prosecuted, which requires male witnesses for rape.

That is the true pakistanis and you are the true educated pakistani trying to white wash the pak reality.

the americans know since 2004 where haqqani has his base near datta khel....the americans rgularly meet haqqanis brother i kabul in his house in wazir akbar khan behind indira gandhi hospital .....so why this attack now ? its all a hoax...part of the pressure campaign on pakistan....psy war

9 killed in missile strike in Pakistan
Apparent target is said to survive
By Zulfiqar Ali and Laura King
Los Angeles Times / September 9, 2008
PESHAWAR, Pakistan - US forces made an apparently unsuccessful attempt yesterday to assassinate a prominent Taliban-linked commander who sometimes shelters in Pakistan's tribal areas, witnesses and military officials said.

Missiles from a suspected American drone aircraft struck a compound in the insurgent stronghold of North Waziristan, just across the border from Afghanistan, witnesses said. At least nine people were killed. Some reports put the tally as high as 21.

The targeted village, Dande Darba Khel, contained a madrassa, or Islamic seminary, and a family compound associated with the Haqqani clan. A Haqqani-led network of fighters is blamed for a number of high-profile attacks inside Afghanistan this year against Western forces and other targets.

In the past few weeks, the Bush administration has stepped up unilateral strikes against Taliban and Al Qaeda figures in the tribal belt adjoining the Afghan border. Last week, American forces made an unusual ground raid on a village just inside Pakistan, killing up to 20 people but apparently failing to kill any militant leaders.

Associates of the Haqqani clan told Pakistani media that neither Jalaluddin Haqqani nor his son, Sirajuddin, who has largely taken over his command role in the Taliban movement, were present in the village at the time of yesterday's strike. But some other close relatives, including one of Jalaluddin Haqqani's wives, were among the dead, they said.

The elder Haqqani, who is reportedly ailing, made his name as a guerrilla commander during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. He also has longstanding links to Osama bin Laden, whom he is believed to have met in the late 1980s. The dead in yesterday's missile strike included at least three suspected foreign militants, but at least two children and some women were believed killed as well, local officials said.

The Haqqani network is thought to be responsible for attacks including a shooting and bombing assault on a Western hotel in Kabul, an assassination attempt against President Hamid Karzai, and the bombing of the Indian Embassy in the Afghan capital, which killed about 40 people.

changing stories! quite a transition; at first it was Pakistan and it's ISI responsible for the attack on Indian Embassy at Kabul according to the so-called evidence provided by the Allied forces commanders to Pakistan Govt. now it's Haqqani!! what next? Its getting pretty crafty, isn't it?

Pakistan publicly decries US raids on its soil as a violation of its sovereignty, even though its government is thought to tacitly support such unilateral moves on the part of the Americans. A Pakistani military spokesman, Major Murad Khan, confirmed that explosions had taken place yesterday in the area of North Waziristan, but that the cause was not immediately known.

A Pakistani military official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the strike had all the hallmarks of an American missile attack carried out with an unmanned Predator drone - strikes that have been carried out with increasing frequency.

do I sit down and see to that justice is done or do I "psych-analyse"

Good point Cheema sahib. But before you finish this could you please suggest some punishment for the US which went in Iraq w/o any provocation and reason?

You wanna cut the heads off in Pakistan and nuke them for their crimes. Fine, let us do it...but what do you suggest for the US? Something similar?

There is no doubt that there are criminals in FATA but not every single resident is criminal and only a fascist can suggest collective punishment for the crimes of a few. I am sure you are not one!

hafiz asad belonged to the alavid sect a sub sect or similar sect of shias like nurbakshi ismaili so when he launched the mass killings in Homs it was eliminating the hard cores in the sunni majority...when the british raised the hazara pioneers a 100 % shia hazara mongol force the british rationale was that since the hazaras then believed that killing any sunni would straight give them a position in paradise( refers brig gen dyers memoirs of leading hazara pioneers against iranian baloch in first world war)....similarly the british successfilly used the 100 % turi shias in kurram against all sunni tribes of pashtuns......but all this is sectarian...the situation in pakistan is far more complex and to compound it has taken an ethnic form...pashtun versus punjabi

Re: # 167 also tahmed

it is clear from that rambling that it is late where you live ... get some rest sir

Khuda Hafiz

Re: # 167;tahmed

when a crime is committed, one seeks punishment ... especially when the crime is against a greater good/scoiety on the whole etc ... with me so far?

now suppose someone commits a henious crime against someone I care about ... do I sit down and see to that justice is done or do I "psych-analyse" the criminal .... for all I know, he may have legitinate grievances through his life and his "final act" may have been a cumulative result of a psychology, twisted and torn through the years, and now do I say he "deserves" my compassion and sympathy?? ... think about it before answering .... like I said before, once an adult, we all have our own crosses to bear and own deeds to answer for .... can't keep blaming someone else sir! or worse society at large

Good night sir

#166 cheema sahib: That is an element of truth, but certainly not the whole truth, in the answer you give. Trouble is, it is an answer to a question you yourself put, not the one I asked.

My question to hamidm remains unanswered. You may take a second shot at answering it if you like. Or you may ignore it. But please dont try to deflect the question by making up a question-answer of your own.

Re: # 159; tahmed sahib,

question is, do they openly stand up to these elements?
the answer is NO!
the reasons are complex ... and admittedly not religious but a general dissatisfaction with their lives, and 'tribalistic' affiliations etc .... you'd have to admit, in our culture if one's own 'flesh and blood' were to be associated with this nonsense, one is much less likely to oppose it openly! It becomes a question of personal/tribal prestige and "honour"!

One mustn't forget that these "elements" come from "within" the society itself; they are a representative of a sick society ... at large. And now there are elements who propose a "purely political Islam"" sans the ritualism .... and that becomes even easier to follow for a testosterone ridden youth, who has few other outlets for his hormonal imbalances!

and these are the complex emotions, not to mention "guilt-trips of a religo-political nature" that these elements play to their advantage.

Short of a Hafiz Asad solution, there is none other I am afraid.