US Commando Strike in Waziristan

It is really strange that whenever US/NATO attack tribal area target only ‘women and children are killed’.

Unfortunately US attack was necessary, logical and natural as Pakistan.

The Daily Times states:
“Some of them were not identified but the charge that many were women and children is obviously state propaganda in order to provoke public opinion. Earlier, a missile attack in South Waziristan killed locals along with two Canadian Muslims who had come to Al Qaeda camps to fight jihad against America and Pakistan.�
The same article goes on to say:
“Two warnings have been registered. The one by Al Qaeda is an invitation to the Pakistani state to commit suicide. The one by America says do something about the Tribal Areas and the writ you have lost there and do it fast or else. The first is deliberately anarchist in its approach; the second is probably unwilling to understand the constraints of the post-jihad Pakistani state. The one by America says do something about the Tribal Areas and the writ you have lost there and do it fast or else.�

CIA mike, it is not strange at all, most of the innocents the US military kills are women and children because the men are outside the structures that these moronic barbarians attack. They do similar things in Afghanistan. This act was illegal and a gross violation of International Law. Both those helicopters with the retarded morons should have been shot down....

have a nice day,
TNI Masadi

We will see many post like “it is a blatant violation of Pakistan's sovereignty� … blah blah blah.

Pakistan's sovereignty in this tribal area is a joke. The Frontier Corps are ineffective, ill-equipped and some of them in cahoots with Taliban. What you need is Pakistan army regulars who are well trained and well equipped etsblishing the writ of the state.

mike: I guess the question to you is, were the benefits from this incursion to your side worth the shitstorm that is going to take place as a direct result of it?

The end begins.. With Iran's oil in their sights the lovely Americans and their glorious leader Obama are going to invade come november.

Theres a month left to clean up the mullahs.. Bit of a tall order no ?

#4 rabiawsti:

Thanks for not calling me a CIA agent like some others did and will.

You are right. This attack will be used by some to inflame the Pakistani public. American government had been very patient and careful to not to cross the border.

Unfortunately the political establishment of Pakistan is unable and unwilling to tackle terrorism problem in the tribal area. I read almost every day good innocent Pak citizens are getting blown away. The Pak army does not want to take action without support of civilian government and I don’t blame them.
The Daily Times editorial “Interpreting two ‘warnings’ is very thoughtful and succinct about problem Pakistan is facing.
Here in US, people want Pakistan to be peaceful and prosperous country. We do not have any ill will towards Pakistan. We have many Pakistanis contributing to the prosperity of this country and they are good citizens.

#6 mike195879 The current track record of american foreign policy suggests ill will towards all humanity, never mind Pakistan.. all very reminiscent of Stalin's famous opinion that its not in any way important to win when its more important to ensure that everyone else loses...

#7 Posted by Leadenwinter�
I disagree with your statement “.. All very reminiscent of Stalin's famous opinion that it’s not in any way important to win when it’s more important to ensure that everyone else loses...�
I am no naive to say that every US action is good. For example, invading Iraq was wrong and stupid. We are in Afghanistan because we were attacked on 9/11. Before that we did not intervene when the Taliban was ruling that country. We did help Bosnia and Kosovo to gain freedom from tyranny and ethnic cleansing.
I hope you give credit when credit is due and criticize when criticism is warranted

CIA mike writes "We are in Afghanistan because we were attacked on 9/11. Before that we did not intervene when the Taliban was ruling that country. We did help Bosnia and Kosovo to gain freedom from tyranny and ethnic cleansing."

Salam and greetings of peace (that your country denies the world) CIA mike. How goes? Raazi Baazi? Baal Bacha?

Not only invading Iraq but invading the country of Afghanistan over unproven allegations without giving peace a chance was just as barbaric. Regarding Bosnia and Kosovo, the US intervened long after the ethnic cleansing had been done and it was not humanitarian, it was for the purpose of establishing camp Bondsteel. This base lies directly astride the Trans-Balkan pipeline that the US in the process of building. When you look at the world scene and how US interference is sending the vast majority of humankind to hell through starvation, and impoverishing its own, and embarking on every nonsense military adventure overseas to keep its "warfare state" kicking while try to dismantle the "welfare state" that it was forced to incorporate post depression, you know how barbaric, dirty and full of stink the mentality of the US elite is. The Pakistan Army if it was a people's army should have blown those copters right out of the sky....

Have a nice day,

TNI Masadi

masadi:
Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago.

CIA mike writes "masadi:
Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago. "

CIA mike, how goes? Baal? Haal?

Your non-response tells me that you are completely stumped in the intellectual field when faced by my arguments (just as you probably were a year back) and as bankrupt as the US elite in the morality department, probably more than you were a year ago..

That said,
Have a nice day living in a fools paradise and drinking kool aid,

TNI Masadi

US Commando Raid in South Waziristan

A.H Amin

03 September 2008


The US military was accused today of having sent a force of commandos across the border from Afghanistan into Pakistan on a raid in which 20 people were reportedly killed, including women and children.

Both Nato and the separate US-led coalition in Afghanistan denied any knowledge of the pre-dawn attack, which local residents said involved both American and Afghan troops backed by helicopter gunships. But it was immediately seen as both undermining sovereignty and presenting a challenge to the coalition govermnet led by Yousuf Raza Gillani, the object of an unsuccessful assassination in Rawalpindi this morning.

"It is outrageous," Owais Ahmed Ghani, the governor of North West Frontier province, said in a statement on the incursion. "This is a direct assault on the sovereignty of Pakistan and the people of Pakistan expect that the armed forces of Pakistan would rise to defend the sovereignty of the country and give a befitting reply."

This comes from a total amteur who has already by his incompetent handling taken Baluchistan to the brink of secession.Now the same man is in NWFP province in governors seat.All set to create chaos in the NWFP also.

The US air mounted raid , there are no coalition forces in this area was mounted from a forward airbase in Paktika province of Afghanistan near Sharan.Their could be multiple aims of this raid.To psychologically harass the Pakistani state.To tell the tribals that the USA can strike at will anywhere in the tribal areas.To spread panic in the area so that any major anti US figure in the area leaves his hideout and changes location and is in the process discovered.

The US attack was logical and natural.They have decided that the centre of gravity of all the trouble is Pakistan.Right or wrong this appears to be the central US perception now.

Seen in this context a major US operation aimed at reducing Pakistan in effectiveness of a small or large dimension may commence in end 2008 and be finalised by mid 2009.This could involved selective surgical strikes, a black and white ultimatum , physical invasion assisted by India,outbreak of war of secession in any of Pakistan's smaller provinces,assasination of key leaders or a leader and finally manipulating things in such a way that martial law is imposed in Pakistan.

The Americans are no longer dealing with the Old Fox Musharraf.The army it is dealing with now is a semi defeated force.Besieged in its own country's western provinces.At war with its people , or at least a substantial albeit effective minority.

In dealing with the Americans I discovered in 1996 and this idea was successively reinforced that at state level they never act at random.Every action,smalles in size has a grand strategic idea.Its time that soldiers and politicians realise this fact and start preparing for the worst to come.

Mike....
There is no point arguing with arab slave/islamists like masadi etc...They will be fed by US govt. and still they try to create trouble for the same people, who are feeding them. This islamic phenomenon is quite global.

India had sufferred such trouble (terrorists sneaking from Pakistan into India and killing people, attacking civilian infrastructure) for long time. India have even handed the list of islamic organisations and location of islamic training centres (aka terrorist training camps) just accross the border in Pakistan. It was of no use. The same sh** logic; they can not prevent people from sneaking into India. Even they will not stop breeding ultra-islamic forces (Laskar e Taibya... etc.).
Honesty is something alien to Pakistani (may be generic to islam) establishment. We are experiencing that for decades. The Mumbai bomb blast mastermind, Dawood Ibrahim, was in Karachi for years. He got his daughter married to Pakistani hero Javed Miandad. Still Pakistan was denying that he was in Karachi!!!
It would have been better for USA to take action based on logic than emotion. Destroy the terror infested areas than try humanitarian way, to convert them into civilised human.
The tragic part is, the area currently US and NATO forces are bombing, once, was centre for learning, art etc. It's name was Gandhar and flourished as part of ancient India for centuries. The medaval arab beduinism destroyed everything. The beautiful cave carving, monastary/temples and adjacent schools ( path shala in sanskrit) was hallmark of this region.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandhara
Upto Kushans, it was fine. After islamic invastion it slipped into extreame darkness...

Major Sahib You write "In dealing with the Americans I discovered in 1996 and this idea was successively reinforced that at state level they never act at random. Every action, smallest in size has a grand strategic idea. Its time that soldiers and politicians realise this fact and start preparing for the worst to come."

Your premonotion and hearing of distant drums is correct.
It reminded me of Hindustani Singers. When Giant Singers are going for "bada Khayal" etc many times they start with "alapi". In that process they basically express and explain notes before staring for Vilambit Ektal leading to Drut Trital ( everything is predetermined) , and mental trial for notes. This action appears like "American Alapi" the just little sign of coming things.
American politicians/ army has lost respect for Pakistani political and military Leadership and they are giving what they think about. Actions speak louder. The response shown by both civil military leadership to american actions justify american down grading of both. Future president made statements which feels oppressed elite locals are more loyal than royals. Now this habits of little "protesting" and then justifying American actions like this is Pakistan's war etc. Slave mentality and practice and habits leads to exactly same slve character.
Pakistans Future will be Cambodia.
Hope Things change for better.
Good day.

Re: # 14 There is danger of American encouraging B.Stan to go seperate way. They are propagating why not Rich baloach than poor pakistani. All that gas and more potential gas and mineral wealth is tempting foreign powers. There is sufficient accumilated fuel to start fire. B. Leader wanted in pakistan is living openly in A.Stan and can that happen without American approval ? It appears USA has some evil designs on Pakistan ? In last century to control Panama Canal new country Panama was made breaking old country.

I think in an ongoing conflict, analyzing every incident and worrying about the messages and intentions is always fraught with dangers of out-analyzing the situation. The US admin has worked hard to get to this point and I think we had discussed the US plan a long time ago. What we are witnessing is the unfolding of the plan.

1. In Pakistan, after the March 9, 2007 Mush debacle, the US went in to high gear in changing the face of the Pak government. The goal was clearly to save the army from the growing wrath of the people of Pakistan.

2. When it became apparent that Musharraf can’t maintain the civilian face, he too was let go and now Zardari is the new horse.

3. Like Musharraf, Zardari too is committed on the War in FATA. The CIA/State Dept outed his connections with the Pentagon and that is a little bump that has to be handled. It is hard for Zardari to maintain a pro-US public face on the War in FATA. So this incident and the fake outrage by the Pakistan Senate and NA, just appears to be damage control. Some folks in the remote villages paid the price of infighting between the CIA and the Pentagon.

4. Pakistan army Chief was in the US after he went aboard Lincoln .There is no sign that the Pak army is not committed with the US. The Pak army was fully aware of the situation and encouraged the unanimous response by the Pakistani officials and the NA. This was just face saving fake response to maintain the façade in the Pakistan.

There is no change in the strategy by the US. We might see an increase in incidents like this as the elections in US heat up. The Dems, if they win, will not change the policy but the Republicans can’t afford to be beaten due to feared Dem vendetta after the elections. The intensity in the war on Terror increases the Republican candidate’s chances. So, the domestic US politics influences some actions in FATA too.

Now read these two appropriate comments from influential think tanks. It is not hard to see where they are coming from.

C. Christine Fair, a South Asia specialist at the RAND Corporation, suggested that the raid did mark a policy shift, and cautioned about the potential consequences of the new strategy.
"Without integrating these attacks within a wider Pakistan strategy – which the US government does not have – we risk a serious blowback which could make things worse, not better," Fair told IPS. "Ninety percent of our logistics still move through Karachi port, so attacking Pakistani targets when we are still dependent on them makes little sense."

Bruce Riedel, a former CIA officer now at the Brookings Institution, argued last month that the US should be willing to use force against "very high value targets" in Pakistan, but cautioned against "loose talk about larger military options."

"The notion of moving NATO forces into the FATA is crazy," Riedel said at a Brookings panel. "We will only spread the cancer deeper into Pakistan...Talk about these issues is extraordinarily counterproductive. It only feeds the paranoia and conspiracy theories of the Pakistani political milieu."