The God Delusion

quin #129 " I am just content to deal with what comes my way and keep my space clean and serve others (humanity) where I can."

That basically is it in a nutshell. "Organized religion", "theology" and so forth are merely ways to make bucks.

you say "My voice is voice of a loner."

Only if you are surrounded by religious nuts. I, e.g., have been harping on this theme for years on chowk. Mr. Masadi (with whose views I dont always agree) is pretty much saying this on religious issues too.

Re: # 127 khurram,
For me spirituality is the true religion, though this does not stand to the argument that religion is what it is at the ground. I understand that.

I am not a theologian and nor wish to be one - true religion does not need any theology. We are in a mess because of theologies. Prophet did not come with theologies. Those were later developed for expediency. I have nothing to do with that. And neither I wish to train myself in that discipline. There are more important things to work upon, for example, sociology of violence, economics of information age and so on and so forth. If I had a few more lives, I may do some of that. But in this short life I could not. I am just content to deal with what comes my way and keep my space clean and serve others (humanity) where I can. That is all my spirituality is about. Not the black hole of theology which sucks everything in and where everything of worth is lost forever.

I have given my personal opinions without shying away from anything and I don't want to go to all the references on the interacts or iLogs where I have expressed it so. I don't have any system for religion in mind so that I can present it as my interpretation. All I am saying is that when the religion is seen in its totality, we can discern that the basis of hatred, intolerance, and bigotry is against the true spirit of religion. When it is seen that what the fountainheads of each religion were trying to achieve, when it is seen that what was the angst and anguish of the fountainheads of all great religions, then we can see that there is no basis for exclusivity, not of hatred. Their angst stemmed from love of humanity - a strange love - not easily understood, and that is why they were often persecuted. Now, if we persecute anyone,it is like turning religion on its head.

My voice is voice of a loner. And I have no misgiving about if it will be heard correctly or not. I will keep saying what I have to say but I harbour not the notion that it will be heard or listened to.

I feel that the general pathos of Muslim psyche have turned to be exactly the type of pathos which Quran wanted to correct. Only if we can see that in Quran. Anyway, I hope that my work on the renditions Quran will help highlight the spiritual aspect of it. And that's all I can hope to contribute.

Thanks anyway for your 'always' succinct and decent remarks.

Re #127 Posted by khurram on

That is right. What matters is how those who spill blood and will spill more (of any religion) can be made to exchange floweers, not us. We all can exchange nice words/flowers/bouquet and can stop discussing bad things but that won't stop any fight anywhere.

Even if we try our best things will not solve in one day.

so let's be bold once again, amen (just talking about letters:-), not people)

No amount of management, no amount of effort can solve a problem till you identify it properly.

To solve a problem you need three things at least:

1. Identify issue (root cause)
2. find a solution
3. Manage/execute this solution

As you see, if you skip the first, you siply can not do the next two.

For social problems, soonerorlater system itself will give you enough clues to see the root cause, but you should be open to analysis/understanding.



another attempt at being idiotically bols



Theoretically, we should talk to top religious leaders say Pope etc and force them to accept that religionis not needed. But you know how dangerous it is? What I have told URSTRULY should be told to POPE and top Maulanas or Shankracharya. Convine them and then communicate it to peddlers or comon people.

So tell Pope and Maulanas that we need God without religion, can you please step aside??? Give them bouquet or may be bribe if they need?? Rehabilitate the top order if needed (though they have ore money they will rehabilitate us at mere suggestion:-))

quin,
If you are distressed by the 'wrong interpretation of religion', you should at least offer your version of the 'right' interpretation of religion.
Instead, you shy away from 'religion' and seek refuge in 'spirituality' .

Re: # 94 NDocR Thanks for participating. Your point well taken.

Please see my post #124 and # 41 where I have expressed my concern that most of the interactors have gone on tangents, misunderstanding what I am trying to convey. As I said, misinterpretation of religion and its misuse in the hands of vested interests is fanning the flames of regional conflicts and bringing havoc to that part of the world. To reiterate, I am blaming wrong interpretation of religion contributing to an already volatile state of affairs caused by various socio-politico-economic factors. We need to set our priorities right.

The fight is not between which religion is true or not, and neither we need to fight to death for atheism vs. theism, what our intelligentsia need to reflect on and debate is that what is the way out of this mayhem. As you so rightly said, a forum like Chowk can be instrumental in that only if we can figure out our priorities. We get worked up, sucked into peripherals and trifles and ignore the monster which is staring us squarely in our eyes. I came to Chowk hoping to contribute my penny’s worth in that direction. We can only hope. I appreciate your effort for bringing this angle into focus.

I understand the housing market collapse was also caused by religion - people bought houses they couldnt afford because they were sure they would find 72 virgins in the basement. Hamidm can explain the details on how this works.

Re: # 112 Urstrly wrote:
"Now take this article, eg., it takes the position that since all the war and mayhem is caused by religion therefore religion is bad and hence must be discarded (or there is no God). The basic premis of this argument that " all the war and mayhem is caused by religion " has no basis at all. ...."

To clarify, my so called article, (I call it a poem in prose) does not argue AT ALL the way it has interpreted in above lines. It does not argue anything. It just expresses the pain which comes from seeing the mayhem which is (in part) caused by the wrong interpretation of religion.

The reasons for the mess we are seeing in that part of the world are many (socio-economic and political) but wrong interpretation of religion is fanning the flames. We cannot come out of this vicious circle unless we are able to break this cycle of hatred, bigotry and violence.

The reason I alluded to 'The God Delusion' was to showcase the tolerance which is needed in these times. As I have said I do not agree with all the conclusions Dawkins has drawn, but there is lot of truth worth pondering over the facts which he has presented.

I am sad that the 'article' has not been seen in its true spirit by some interactors. I am sad that the real issues of violence and its reasons have almost gone unaddressed. And I do appreciate those who has understood the sentiments behind this writing.

Regards, I had NO idea that stupid website had grown so much. Check out some of their new pictures - conclusive proof in the watermelon.

Later, everyone.

Regards

Exactly. Flying spaghetti walas have to convince us why their religion is preferable to Islam or Christianity, and so on.

The same thing with Primal Soup walas. (1) Can they explain their theory/God/religion in simple terms that a lay person like me can understand? (2) Why should I bother?

#119 #120 Eklavya

There is an established religion of 'flying spaghetti'. It has gained recognition at least across US and claiming to be reconized in the schools and other institution as 'organized religion.

Here is the next best thing after Islam. Please adher.

BTW, if Hamidmn wasn't just taking us for a ride, then his view of the spaghetti god might resonate with 'primal soup' people.

Here's a fun video:

Peant Butter: The Atheist's Nightmare

http://axiomsun.com/home/video/peanut_butter_the_atheists_nightmare !.html

Urstruly, you nailed the argument against most self-professed atheists:

"My thesis is that by the very nature of it atheism cannot have an argument to prove their thesis. Its like being a mirzai - who cannot validate his own religion on its own merit unless he invalidate Islam. Compare this to Islam, which stands on its own merit - its self evident."

A-theism which is simply a denial (evidenced in loud statements like there is NO GOD), by its nature, cannot be proven with any reasonable degree of confidence. Also, offering no positive explanations/contributions (about the nature of the universe) of its own, it will always remain a marginal belief of a few.

The spaghetti god kind 'atheism' may be more interesting.

Hamidm seems to imply that there may be some kind of 'god' that is very different from God that we normally speak of.

If that is what he saying then that is a more positive statement (than simply NO GOD). Yet it's not clear (at least to me) what he means. If hamidm wasn't just kidding us, and wants us (and others) to take him seriously at all, he should explain to us befuddled lot this 'spaghetti god' of his. :)

Re: # 106
Mr. Beduine follower....
"...terror in the minds of indians..."
It is not terror. It is called nuicense. When it will go beyond the limit of tolerence, people will carry out another Gujrat like "whip the arab slaves" activity; may be in bigger scale and much more organised way....Islamic dogs needs periodic refreshers. Indians knows that very well...
Anyhow life is cheap in Asia...

Re: # 112
Urstruly...

Most of the Iraqis are killing themselves in sectarian violence(Shia-Sunni-Kurd). Some part of it is deeply associated with Islamic history. Afghanis are dying due to their association with arab barbarism. What you expect people to do with these jihadis? Wait for them to transform themselves into civilised human being?

#112 Ustruly

World wars and other wars will always happen because there will always be monsters like Hitler... In the same way, social reforms will also come because Gandhis will be there too.

But only you, religion paddlers are capable of transforming a simple soul Abdul or for that matter Ram Bharose in a monster.

Atheists do not need any proseletizing and never did so. If your religion brings you comfort of a drug-addict, good for you. Take an overdose. But if Abdul explodes a bomb in Delhi, Bangalore expecting for himself an orgy in hereafter and kills my friends, I'm after you as I know those killed will have no heaven nor rebirth.

The corollary is that deception of religions
can not be divine, it can only be idiotic or evil or something much worse.