A Guantanomized Age

"herald a new age of Guantanomized discourse ..."

Since Islamists have ushered in a new age of "Jehadized-discourse" where every non-muslim is to be terrorized into submission - it is time such a counter discourse where every Islamist is presumed guilty of accepting the "discourse of Jehad" until he publically recants and criticizes it.

"....Muslim life does not occupy the same plane as American life....."

Go to a shariah state like Saudi Arabia that every Pakistani wants to emulate and see what is the blood value of an idolator kafir as compared to a full bloodied muslim male....

at least America and other liberal states in Europe (and India) do not legislate to make muslim blood inferior to non-muslims like Islam does in its occupied land.........

"....Only Islam, it appears, is on the dining menu, and it is cooked to order.........."

Hey, now that we idolators have been on the dining menu of Islam since it's beginning......it is our time to question the genocidal agenda of Islam against idolators like me in the free world....

"We are, after all, ceaselessly reminded that terrorists subscribe to totalitarianism ....."

Please answer whether the program of Islam includes establishment of Shariah based state and Sunnat conforming submitters or not??

Matloob Zaman

The concept of a Muslim moderate is not entirely useless in practical terms (although, theoretically, given that Islam itself is moderation, moderate moderation may make no sense). The practical implication is that a 'moderate' Muslim differs, in some ways, from a Muslim like Osama Bin Laden who is labeled an 'extremist' by many people, especially non-Muslims.

The important thing is to understand, as HP suggested, what 'moderate Muslim' means. How does such a person differ from say Osama, and what does he or she share (simply being a Muslim)?

...i remember reading somewhere that obl wanted oil to be priced at $300/barrell....i thought it was ridiculous at that time.....however, the way it shot up, it seemed like it would hit $200/barell.....

....i also remember reading american analysts that the ultimate aim of al-qaeda is to destabilize the american system and way of life.....no one could explain how and when, but that was the chatter.....

....i also couldn't figure out how that could happen.....other than ira kind of threats.....however if the current financial wipe-out in the usa is any indication, perhaps al-qaeda has, knowingly or unknowingly succeeded.....

....the usa's financial system is getting wiped out...no one knows the extent of it, since the govt. is taking over one financial institution after another....but i assume it must be much bigger than what we can see.....

....so much so, that the usa is begging arabs and chinese to buy out its institutions, and even they are refusing....and if the chinese stop being the visa and mastercard for usa's economy, things will turly unravel....

....so has al-qaeda succeeded - perhaps concidentally - in its mission....one would have to say yes....

america was the sole feared powerful superpower till 9/11.....

since then, america is caught up and being defeated in two major wars - afghanistan and iraq.....these wars are costing it $100 billion a year, with no end in sight

.....its currency has depreciating around 40%.....and may continue to go down.....

....its financial institutions have, literally, been wiped out.....and are now surviving totally on govt. support.....the govt., itself, is surviving on chinese support.....

....its military budget is $515(?) billion........yet it cannot win any war.....

....iran is now the most influential player in the gulf.....while russia is again spreading its wings, having defeated a us ally in georgia......in addition, us supported leaders are falling like bowling pins in the region.....

so, did al-qaeda plan all this out....hmmm.....or is it just the results of an obnoxious and arrogant us foreign policy.....i.e. a country, whose citizens are spending beyond their means and which is still inovled foreign conflicts, requiring huge amounts of money......

....i would have to say the later.....

what is still interesting, is that the republicans are, despite all of the above, still neck to neck with the democrats in the presidential race........and the usa is planning to attack another country....iran!.......

apparently, there are a huge amounts of hamidm's in the usa, who think all is well, as long as the stage is set for jesus to return to the promised land......this huge group could actually bring in the republicans again!!.....another eight years of republicans, and even citibank, boa and wells fargo may have been renamed saudi commercial, abu dhabi islamic bank and the int'l bank of chinese commerce.....

one would have to say al-qaeda 1 - usa 0 seems to be the score, at the moment......

cliftonbridge #8 {"However if you think there is a country that treats its immigrants better than america (for the most part) then youve obviously never travelled outside of disney world.

The nuanced argument is that americans could do a better job with international human rights..... o.k but they are already far superior to any muslim country in the whole world in terms of domestic human rights so lets keep that in mind while laying out utopian conditions for them to satisfy.

cliftonbridge #65 {"However i think american society has treated muslims very well and for the most part i think american muslims are very pro america in general which they should be and they have every right to be against american foreign policy like countless nonmuslim americans."}

Cliftonbridge,
If I were a jingoistic American, I would applaud your justification of our diminishing regard for our own high ideals as embodied in our constitution. In your zest to be more Catholic than the Pope, you are obviously ignoring the fact that to most Americans our freedoms, including those of our fellow citizens, are absolute and not subject to some obscure scale that compares our standards to those of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, or, for that matter, India.

One of the important traits of responsible citizenship is to not drink our own bathwater. Insisting that blacks have a far better life and more rights in the US than in most of Africa cannot justify or even excuse the real discrimination that exists in our country against African Americans. This line of reasoning was long used by racists and the KKK in their persecution of minorities and suppression of any attempts at rectifying the injustice.

Your assertion that America treats its Muslims better than the treatment they receive in most Muslim countries does not hold water. It's analogous to saying that a husband who beats his wife once a week is a better husband than the one who beats his wife several times a week. The correct position should be that domestic violence is evil - regardless of the frequency or intensity.

The current state of draconian measures against people who have "Muslim-sounding" names, "Muslim" features, or "Muslim" garb cannot be justified and must be eradicated. Your defense of this treatment is neither helpful nor foresighted. In ancient Japan, people suspected of being Christians had to stomp on the crucifix to prove that they were not followers of hated western foreigners. After the Reconquista in Spain, new Muslim converts to Catholicism had to eat pork to prove their sincerity. It won't be long before each one of us will have to have disposable Korans to, God forbid, flush down the toilet to prove our loyalties. Please reconsider your viewpoint.

Sincerely,
Salim

Moderate Muslims! what does this term refer to anyway? (Those who chose to submit to the will of others than Allah SWT even if it is for worldly gain?)

There is only one original Islam and it's followers; where in the scripture it refers to a variety of Muslims of given degrees of temperament? and how does it classify them?

You are, either with us(if you follow Islam)or against us(if you follow anything less than prescribed Islamic scripture as revealed, i.e. The Quran-e-Kareem).

Anything that falls in any other category and yet identifies with Islam &/or Muslim is a corrupt attempt to hogwash for purposes of seeking personal gains, luxury & comfort and the label of being American Muslim which as also described by others on this forum equals to nothing else but submission to slavery, after all it keeps everyone at home happy that their people are being treated well in America specially since they label themselves as "moderate American Muslims".

No better way to be an apologist for being a card carrying member of the followers of Islamic faith, while denouncing people of the same faith and wrapping oneself in the star spangled banner!

Be an original, since nothing in the world can compare or compete with the original Modesty and Humility Islam offers, provided one learns and follows the basics without the contamination of corrupt innuendos.

The faith of Islam was not delivered by the extremists or terrorist nor was it revealed to them for their exclusive misinterpretation.

Masadi Sahib:

Does it mean that you are a first rate Elite in Pakistan. Your elitist parents sent you to the elitist of the elite school in Pakistan then they sent you the elitist of the university in buckle of the bible belt. Now America return claiming to know more. There is a saying in Hindi "aapke ki tou sari ungalian ghee mein hain".

Please give a break those who have done well or are trying to do well in what you call "third rate slaves" and
second class citizens".

Anil mian, I know they didn't teach you critical thinking skills at HBS, but come on, the third rate is in reference to slave, the second class is in reference to "citizen", now I know the modern citizen is a slave to the capitalist but the slavery I talk about it more explicit than the slavery of the modern citizen.

Have a nice day,

TNI Masadi

Masadi sahib:

"...a third rate slave to the West..."

or

"...'second class' citizens ..."

Please make up your mind. Seriously.

["What is it about Islam that produces terrorists?"]

Al-Quran.

["Why aren't more moderate Muslims condemning terrorism?"]

Because moderation is merely a diversionary tactic.

Shoresh** writes "The author must be given credit for hiding his fundamentalist Muslim diatribe well within this scholarly sounding article."

These kinds of comments, unjustified and deliberately detracting, trying to diss an article by associating it with a well developed stereotype, coming from a rank racist who has sold his soul as a third rate slave to the West, is what is most demeaning to read coming from any human being.

Cliftonbridge writes "However i think american society has treated muslims very well and for the most part i think american muslims are very pro america in general which they should be and they have every right to be against american foreign policy like countless nonmuslim americans."

Very well as 'second class' citizens that know how to fit in their place. Let them resist and then you'll notice how the polite hypocrisy turns to old time southern racism....

HP sahib there is no comparison between the propaganda of the U.S in a U.S dominated world and the propaganda of the Al-Qaeda types. Such is the difference between the two that the latter's propaganda merely provides legitimation for the former's and tries to prove its farce correct and its stereotypes accurate. Further, it is not a real war, the war wouldn't last a day were the US to lose interest in it.

Re: # 65

this was for rabia