A Guantanomized Age

Rabia maybe you should read the para in context. He is talking about muslims IN AMERICA and claiming american society has practically embraced apartheid by their foreign policy (putting a diff premium on MUSLIM life that american muslims should recognize because it impacts their own lives in america).

America has actually got a great human rights record on muslim americans by the standards of the world we live in. Where they dont have a great record is their FOREIGN POLICY. Yes they do put a diff. premium on iraqi afghani pakistani life but every country does that and how is that news?

The more intelligent way to present that would be to say that americans need to recognise that 1000 iraqis lives are not less important than one american life. By addressing the statement exclsuively to muslims in america he made it pretty obvious that he was deliberating suggesting that shitty american foreign policy (against muslims) has in some way translated to a shitty domestic policy (against muslims) which is untrue.

"But this banal observation cannot suffice. In light of the vast gap in casualties and carnage, the insistence on grilling American Muslims can only be understood as a decoy, a way of avoiding uncomfortable questions about unseen others.

It is, in short, the extraordinary rendition of reality.

This is a painful but clear reminder to Muslims here and elsewhere that Muslim life does not occupy the same plane as American life"

Hamza yaar, tahmed isn't that bad. I mean, his thinking is all muddled but he is a good guy at heart. I am worried about you tho...will you be joining the lakshar e detroit or will you be sending care packages to the marines as they land in islamabad?

chacha's issue is that he is on social security n medicaid n he appreciates it to the point where he will sell his offsprings to ensure the perks. he is extremly paranoid that even though in real life he has formally changed his last name to schtinkinbaum...but they'll still deport him back to chakwal if he deosnt proove his patriotism by being a complacent uncle tom 24-7...its a typical qadiyani syndrome...no need to dwell on it too much

"all it does is make some subjective generalizations, and then repeat them over and over again"

tahmed32: no, that's all you do.

rabia #44: this is a badly written article even by chowk standards - all it does is make some subjective generalizations, and then repeat them over and over again.

HP #39 you are right that there is a difference between UK (and indeed european) vs US muslims. The former seem to have a bigger problem adjusting to the country they came running to than the latter.

These differences are not new - they were apparent from day 1, in the 1960's. While this is a subject for a PhD thesis, suffice it to say that the big gap in education levels in UK vs US muslims has to be a major factor in all this, imho.

Cheers.

HP: The ironic thing is that it's supposed to be muslims whose worldview dehumanizes huge chunks of humanity. Eklavya's and Ajeya's comments really expose the hypocrisy of their own claims. To them, the author is just a brainwashed enabler of jihad, so brainwashed that he doesn't even realize it. Of course the liberal US publications in which an article like this would have no problem being published are also enablers of jihad. Everyone's an enabler of Jihad!

Good Heavens and bahatar hooraN! so many posts on this subect. Must be friday...

Papa kehtain hai..baRa kaam karega..but pappu can't be civilized sala!! from BBC.

Computer terror teenager jailed

The court heard Munshi had a guide to making napalm on his computer
The youngest person in Britain arrested and convicted under the Terrorism Act has been sentenced to two years in a young offenders' institution.

Hammaad Munshi, from Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, 18, was 16 when he was arrested in 2006. Police found a guide to making napalm on his computer.

The Old Bailey judge said he had been influenced by "fanatical extremists".

His family backed the sentence, but said the case showed how easily a teenager could be groomed.

Al-Qaeda propaganda

Munshi was convicted last month of making a record of information likely to be used for terrorist purposes, but cleared of possessing terrorist material.

During his trial at Blackfriars Crown Court, the jury heard that he had spent many hours viewing jihadist websites and had downloaded guides to making napalm, detonators and explosives.

Munshi was convicted alongside two other men, Aabid Khan and Sultan Muhammad.

Khan, 23, from Bradford, West Yorkshire, was said to be a "key player" in radicalisation via the internet. You have brought very great shame upon yourself, your family and your religion

Judge Timothy Pontius

He was accused by prosecutors of "inciting others to take part in [jihad] and arranging for himself and others to attend military training in Pakistan in preparation for going to fight and, inevitably, to kill".

Munshi was said to have been recruited by Khan when he was just 15.

His barrister had told the court he had shown "curiosity" rather than any kind of malicious intent.

However, on Friday Detective Chief Superintendent John Parkinson from the West Yorkshire counter-terrorism unit said all three were dangerous individuals who were not just curious about extremist material.

"They'd gone out of their way to possess information about how to construct explosive devices, information about how to carry out acts of terrorism," he told the BBC's Asian Network.

"They were pieces of information that had to be specifically sought out, and has therefore definitely stepped over that criminal threshold."

The trial heard that Munshi was desperate to go and fight and went by the online name of "fidadee", meaning a "person ready to sacrifice himself".

He also had a discussion with Khan, via an internet messaging service, about how someone might smuggle a sword through airport security.

Police said they found al-Qaeda propaganda on his computer and notes on martyrdom hidden under his bed.

'Shame'


Judge Timothy Pontius said: "There is no doubt that you knew what you were doing."

He said the nature of what was downloaded made it a "particularly serious offence".

"You have brought very great shame upon yourself, your family and your religion," he told Munshi.
Aabid Khan and Sultan Muhammad were jailed last month

"However, in the light of the evidence, I have no doubt at all that you, amongst others of similar immaturity and vulnerability, fell under the spell of fanatical extremists, and your co-defendant Aabid Khan in particular.

"They took advantage of your youthful naivety in order to indoctrinate you with pernicious and warped ideas masquerading as altruistic religious zeal.

"Were it not for Aabid Khan's malign influence, I doubt this offence would ever have been committed."

Khan was sentenced in August to 12 years for possessing or making documents promoting terrorism. His cousin Muhammad, 23, also from Bradford, was sentenced to 10 years for similar offences under the Terrorism Act.

'Lessons to learn'

In a statement, Munshi's grandfather Sheikh Yakub Munshi, who is a well-known Islamic scholar, said the family respected the court's judgment.

"But like any other family in this country, we are deeply upset by the situation in which Hammaad finds himself," he said.


Labour MP Shahid Malik says it's a wake-up call for many Muslim parents
"All of us feel there are lessons to be learnt, not only for us but also for the whole Muslim community in this country.

"This case demonstrates how a young, impressionable teenager can be groomed so easily through the internet to associate with those whose views run contrary to true Muslim beliefs and values."

Shahid Malik, Munshi's local MP, said the teenager's family had been left "shocked and bewildered" by what had happened.

"It is a real wake-up call for parents because there is a real need to be vigilant, especially when their kids are on the internet," he said.

"It is a real wake-up call to how older jihadists can prey on vulnerable young people.

"Mosques have done a lot but they need to do more in terms of telling young people what is acceptable and what is not in Islam."

Hamza

Whine all you can, my paki brother... the problem is rooted within yourselves... solution will also be found within yourselves...

mohar..yarr u didnt even object when they were burning ur ammi alive...u didnt blink when ur abboo shoved a coat hanger in ur ammi's vagene n aborted the lil paraswati n u have the audacity to inquire muslims...the only inquiry i appreciate from hindus is...'helloo sir would you like coffe with the dozen glazed'..but just for the record...in majority mosques hate-speech is not allowed by the mgmt...i m personally privy to some imams being banned by the mgmt of the mosques to ever give a lecture again because they went overboard. But we should be able to whine as much as the rest of the anti-war crowd.

I beg to differ with people who are just calling it a silly article. Mostly are not following the writer’s train of thought. I don’t think he is writing an apology or a justification, he is asking questions and there are many out there that need answers. He clearly is trying to figure out what is the correct answer and why the witch-hunt, if there is any.

Tahemd is correct that this may not be a big problem in the US, but it is a major issue in UK, especially with the Pakistani Muslims. The best way is to discuss the issue rather than making fun of the writer or abusing him. This abuse only shows that people deriding him are clueless. He has presented his thoughts seriously and clearly made an effort to show his true feelings. At least he is trying to think about the issues but others because they can’t think, are abusing the writer to keep their popularity going among some folks. I can understand why Indians would behave in a certain way but Pakistani need to discus this issue threadbare.

When you have a war going on the enemies are invariably dehumanized from both sides. (I have a long post on Dr. Sohail’s article about dehumanizing; I will repost it, if people can’t look it up.)

Communication Media is one big weapon in fighting a war. Media is a front in this war like any other war and both sides are using it. While the Western media is propagating against the Muslims, the Muslims in their own countries are using various methods to retaliate for counter propaganda. The issue is not what media says is right or wrong but how you deal with it. It is like selling a product. You glorify it and the competition points to the deficiencies.

If the west is attacking Muslim beliefs and cultures, the Muslims are attacking the western beliefs and culture. The west is asking for moderate Muslims and the Muslims are showing western hypocrisy.


The issue here is really minor. A bunch of immigrants from the Muslims countries who live in the West are caught in the middle of it. It does not matter to people living in Pakistan, Indonesia or Malaysia one bit about what the western media is saying in the west. They can deal with that by using their own propaganda machine against the West.
Remember propaganda is mainly bound for your own people.

The issue is how should the Muslims living in Europe and North America deal with this?
They need to figure out how to answer questions and ponder over what the heck is moderate Muslim.

Think about this and I will post more later.

Excellent article. Haters will hate..keep representin my brother

Pakis, Pakis

Did Junaid, or any other pakis for that matter, stood up in his mosque and denounce the preacher who just finished a hate speech against kafirs?... this happens every friday, all the time... Did any paki ever stood up against jihadis anywhere any time?...

Junaid can continue his randi rona till camels come into his a## - until pakis confront their own evil, nothing going to change... The reaction from the west will escalate, it's not going to go down - no matter how much crocodile tears you cry....

chalta, you can ridicule me anytime :)

----------

pinku, hey, doesn't it say somewhere in one of your Hindoo books - neither too happy nor too unhappy, neither too detached, nor too attached....?

#8
cliftonbridge did you even read the rest of the paragraph that you were quoting from? This is the whole thing:
"

This is a painful but clear reminder to Muslims here and elsewhere that Muslim life does not occupy the same plane as American life: that if ten, twenty, or even one hundred Muslims die for every fallen American civilian, it is not sufficient cause for introspection; and that if a Muslim plays no role in attacks on Americans, he is still subject to a harsher judgment than an American who cheers policies that leave tens of thousands of Muslims dead."

The author was talking about the attitude towards loss of civilian life in MUSLIM COUNTRIES as a result of the war on terror. NOT about the civil rights of US Muslims.