A Guantanomized Age

Excellent and very important article. I wish all westerners could read and ponder this.

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The World Is My Country -Tom Paine (1737-1809).

Excellent work, Junaid.

This constant drumbeat asking conveniently-named 'moderate' Muslims to stop being Muslims is as misguided as it is unrealistic.

And you are so right: Muslims living in the so-called 'democratic' countries' have both an opportunity and a full duty to "oppose serious injustices, such as torture, occupation, collective punishment, and disproportionate use of force" by these countries.

But the heart-warming news, from Muslim pov, Junaid, is that whatever sundry outsiders (barring good people like marshakala) may say, Muslims have not forotten their duty and their opportunity (although thought leaders like you can help them do even better).

Junaid,

Kya naam hai same category as Mujahid and Ghazi.

Very well written and very true. It can almost move an Islam haiter like me to sympathise with you. Actually people like me are very sympathetic to Momins viewing them as the gr8st vicitms of Islam.

See the fact is Islam is not a religion but a way of life and a rabid political ideology which is etremely evil. Christianity and Judaism are almost as evil but the difference is that Xians and Yahoods are not so much in thrall of evilness as Muslais are. The evil Islam can perpetrate has to be seen from at least the Hindu POV in Sindh. I mean it takes a special brand of evil to perpetrate religous and sexual genocide on the poorest of the poor in the name of making them pure Paak.

I mean if we have riots in India always and witout exception the Muslais start them and then whine when they lose. Here in Sindh what are the Hindus trying to do. How are they trying to injure muslais or Islam except the fact that they are not muslais themselves and that islam considers and insult.

Actually in most ways u r right they (the west) do not have the right to question you but they are doing so as they have the financial and millitary muscle to do it.

Read muslai history about ur ancestors doing the same in large parts of the world.

You reap what you sow.

And you peadophile murderer was the biggest son of a sow.

Sanatani

junaid mian,

.... please disregard sanatani's rather offensive style, but he is right about the inherent flaw in islam ..... islam falls in the same category as nazism and other totalitarian ideologies and that is why people are afraid of it ...... like the germans under nazism, muslims are victims of an isidious ideology

The author must be given credit for hiding his fundamentalist Muslim diatribe well within this scholarly sounding article.

He almost had me fooled. I started reading the article and then lo and behold, it teetered and veered to its inevitable conclusion.

What Moderate Islam..


Has the author seen it?
Asim Javid

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Article is good for muslims not for westerners. Even if they read 1000 such carefullly written apologetic articles, they will not be able to ignore the problems and the difference in those problems that Islam creates.

If you say that you are analyzing problem carefully and end up with conclusion "no there is nothing wrong with Islam" then problem is with you not others. You can not say "no problem" you can only suggest your list of causes/solutions for it. My later posts will show "why" and you can reason against them as always....


First the important points...

This questions is dealt ok
[["Why aren't more moderate Muslims condemning terrorism?"]]

The answer has to come from those so called moderates and they can say whatever they want.

this question:
[[
and "What is it about Islam that produces terrorists

]]

is not answered, instead it was wrapped in the answer of the above question and was quickly thrown under the bed. The smell is there for everybody, so just hiding won't help.

1. What is their that creates ISlamic states???

2. What is their that alienates muslims in all other countries many 100 years from 9/11 or since ever, what makes it intolerant of other religions?

3. What is there that gives muslims this Ummaha concept and reason to work for Islam rather than for their own country, for their own people (while they may not be capable of working for any one of them)??

4. Why only muslims have to kill in the name of religion. Christian may be killing crores of muslims, but why they don't do it in the name of Islam, why they don't say we are Christian and we are doing it for Christianity?

5. Why only Islam is being protected so violently and spread for so many centuries and not Hinduism, Buddhism (and Christianity can not at least compete in degree)???

6. Who taught Kashmiries to kill and expel Hindus? USA?

7. Who asked Pakistan to kill Hindus and Bangladeshis in the name of Islam? How come there are no Hindus left in Pakistan (close to none compared to what existed after migration)? What was done to them, who did it and why??

This is not all that is needed to beat the deception of ignoring the "uniqueness" of Islam when it comes to problems that religions create. There is lot more.

Kuran and Muhammad's life give immense support to many of the ideas of Islam that create these problems. So many Sultans were not fighting/killing in the name of Islam because they had dreams, but because they could immediatley grab this idea from Kuran and life of Muhammad. And many of them were doing it very sincerely (eliminating kafirs or converting them or raping women captured).

Sharia laws are not what USA has printed and distributed, nor the hundreds of millions of muslims (across globe) who love them were trained by USA, nor even they were always muslim. It is psychology of Islam that leads you to that path very quickly.

As always denial and deception are the best weapons of those who belie reason/intellect; and who are more for their religion than anything else (including God, so they won't even side with God, if he comes:-)).

"This is a painful but clear reminder to Muslims here and elsewhere that Muslim life does not occupy the same plane as American life"

This is a really silly article and i hope you are very young. Its no secret that american foreign policy sucks and media is biased. Its also no secret that immigrants and minorities are treated with some bias in every corner of the globe.

However if you think there is a country that treats its immigrants better than america (for the most part) then youve obviously never travelled outside of disney world.

The nuanced argument is that americans could do a better job with international human rights..... o.k but they are already far superior to any muslim country in the whole world in terms of domestic human rights so lets keep that in mind while laying out utopian conditions for them to satisfy.

I read these articles, and this one is quite well-written - so the author must be at least of average intelligence. And I think - why is it that Islam shuts off people's abilities of thinking rationally?

Consider this:

"Applying this Muslim litmus test in a different setting demonstrates the point: If a white worker was assaulted in a black neighborhood, would he march into work the next day demanding his black colleagues "denounce" the attack?"

The answer, if you are not brain-dead, is obvious: SKIN COLOR BY ITSELF DOES NOT AFFECT YOUR WAY OF THINKING. BUT BEING INDOCTRINATED IN ISLAMIC IDEOLOGY DOES.

THAT - is the difference.


You, my friend, are drinking from the same well - reading the same book, indoctrinating your children with the same poison - that the terrorists are. A good example - the recent bombings in India. The mastermind turned out to be a well-educated muslim from a middle-class background. The indoctrination just affects different Muslims to different degrees. Some become terrorists, some actively help the terrorists, some become terrorist sympathizers, and almost all become Islamic apologists. All these people are working towards the same cause, and the same goal, although many of them may not know it. Just like individual ants don't see the overall pattern of the activity of the entire colony of ants.

Author bhai,

Open your eyes. Open your eyes, and again open your eyes.

Lemme tell you a simple reason why the wrongdoings of west cannot be blamed on their religion. Because of the fact the state and religion is kept separate. Have you seen any Muslim country whose constitution does not guarantee that the laws will be in line with Quran & Sunnah except perhaps Turkey.

So brother, wake up before it is too late, and i hope that as cliftonbridge said, you are young because then there is hope.

Clifton, Tahmed, and shoray... good points....

Hamidm sir, How r u? Baal bacha raazi baazi....

Sanatani, Have you ever heard the name of a medicine called 'Barnol'. I hope, I got the spellings right.

Eklavya ji, frankly, I just can't get what do you mean, and this is not the first time..... Can you come again....

bhatti ji, junaid makes a very good case for why the West doesn't care for Muslim lives, how they don't see how unjust they are toward Muslims and Muslim countries, and how Muslims living in America and other 'democratic' countries have a great opportunity and solemn duty to oppose the unjust policies of their host countries toward Muslims everywhere.

Now, you and I could tell him that this is a pathetic and absurd way of thinking, but that won't allow for Junaid bhai's (and other people like him or even good people like marshakala's) very different view of what justice is, how Muslims (or any other group) are being treated, or what people's primary duties and responsibiities are.

Eklavya ji,

I think I got you, but what I understood is so absurd that I am sure I got it wrong.

So, one more try.....

Or is there anyone else who can help me decipher what Eklavya ji is saying....

yaar krbhatti:
#9 is the cliffsnotes version of #2. Specifically:

"The indoctrination just affects different Muslims to different degrees. Some become terrorists, some actively help the terrorists, some become terrorist sympathizers, and almost all become Islamic apologists. All these people are working towards the same cause, and the same goal, although many of them may not know it. Just like individual ants don't see the overall pattern of the activity of the entire colony of ants."

krbhatti: ever wonder why so many Junaid-types love to paint the west as treating all muslims as terrorists - all evidence to the contrary - while being blithely unconcerned by constant attempts by hindus to do exactly that on chowk?

# 14

Tahmed bhai,

Please enlighten me why it is so?

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