Emerging Pakistan-U.S. relations

Re: # 68

arjun mian,

.... please don't lump mad masadi with the rest of the pakis who might be clueless and blinded by faith, but come nowhere close to the idiocy of this man ...... now i wish the brroklyn community college had given him tenure so that we could keep an eye on him right here ..... by now we would have shipped him off to bellview ...... unfortunately, in pakistan it is hard to differentiate between the sane and the insane ........

#62 Posted by masadi on September 20, 2008 3:02:24 pm


The "Taliban" on the Western Frontier is a US created problem


Nice way to give pakiland a pass for it's support of islamic terrorism as a state policy...

all pakis can be fooled all the time..

Re: # 64

masadi mian,

.... this is a well known fact and well documented ... according to my uncle -a durrani) - an afridi was walking along on a hot summer day with a coin clutched tightly in his fist; he opened his fist to look at the coin and found that it was all wet ... in a gentle voice he said, "paisa, paisa, waley jaree .. kuna warqam, ta na warqam"

..... do you need any more proof of the venal nature of the pathan ?

Re: # 65

hp,

... why is it so diffult for you to understand what masadi is trying to say ...let me try and explain it .... the us elite want to control fata and every other place on god's green earth because they are evil - simply evil ...... they are like boogie men who eat babies and feast on human blood .... you are trying to find geo-political reasons where there arn't any .....

.... in any case the afghans will (and do) sell their own mothers for a few bucks so what you had suggested before will work ..... buy half of them and then turn them against each other - if it worked in the anmbar province it will work in waziristan ..... unfortunately pakistan does not have the money to buy a pao of ganderis and its army couldn't fight a hijra with ghungroos on her feet ...... hence, we need the americans to do our dirty job

#62 Posted by masadi
"They have been relocated into Pakistan as a "problem" because the US is interested in those areas of Pakistan."

Many people say that BUT no one has ever said what interest US has in 'those areas'. I understand the US wants to stay in Afghanistan for strategic purposes for a long time. I understand that the US wants to continue the WOT to maintain its occupation of Afghanistan. But what good fata is to the US?

The US can be present in FATA with cooperation from the Pakistan army. After all Pakistan has never said no to providing bases to the US.

Initially, it was good to use the Pak army agents as alqaeeda or Taliban in the area to maintain the occupation but now I think it is beyond the Pak army and the ISI. They have lost control and that worries the US.

I think the US thought that the ISI was double crossing and they asked for reforms in ISI. Those reforms are happening. Number two, number three, and number four from the old leadership are already gone. Musharraf brought his trusted man as number one with US approval. The situation still hasn't changed on the ground. So it is not the ISI controlling these Taliban. They may have some agents but not in control.

Now going by your theory, if we assume that the US wants FATA for some reason, wouldn't the US just add another 4 to 5 million who oppose the US under its control?

The whole problem for the US is the Pashtoon belt, why would the US add more Pashtoon in the mix for its own army to fight?
There are no known natural resources in the area. The US can use Gwadar with Pakistani permission and it has neutralized china's interest in Gwadar by positioning itself in afghanistan.

So why should it occupy FATA?

hamid writes "they love money more than they value their ass" ....."

Might I politely request that you keep your 2 cents out of areas that are beyond your dumb-ass understanding...

Have a nice day,
TNI masadi

HP writes "The game as it is being played out now and the right strategy is to force the Pak army to be more proactive in FATA and the US should be ready to pay part of the expenses with new arms to the Pakistan army and the political Government to continue to provide the cover."

This is more of the same and will produce similar results, the only difference will be that the political institutions will get blames and will further deteriorate as a result, setting the stage for a movement of the electorate towards either the military or the Taliban types who will gain in legitimacy. That might be what the US wants but it is certainly not good for Pakistan or for democracy or for restructuring the Pakistan military.

HP writes "I think in the end if Pakistan gets rid of the criminals in FATA, that would be good for Pakistan. So it is a win-win strategy for the US and Pakistan."

HP sahib you are way off on this one. No GWOT US strategy can be good for Pakistan, we have seen the results of these strategies thus far. The "Taliban" on the Western Frontier is a US created problem, it is a problem the US wants to escalate and so has brought its effects into mainland Pakistan. It is not something the US wants to fix. The US is not bothered as much as it advertises, with these so-called "hit and runs" from this side of the border, they can be controlled on that side of the border. The purpose of this "pushing" is for escalation. And the "strategy" as I have elaborated on many times in the past will only mainstream the Taliban types. They have been relocated into Pakistan as a "problem" because the US is interested in those areas of Pakistan. If polite occupation wont work, and these U.S. hit and runs were for just such pressure building, then the US will not hesitate to cross the border as an invasion force. The U.S. has enough forces to mount a buildup if it so desires, why buildup when you can painlessly occupy through agreement is the question..

Have a nice day

Re: # 59

hp,

... once again i agree with you ..... as my uncle, who is a pathan himself once said, "the reason there are so many kunees in afgahanistan is because they love money more than they value their ass" .....

Hamid

"high flying b-52's dropping tons of bombs instead"

That will never work in the terrain in both Afghanistan and FATA. That is why the US is using drones and gunship helicopters.High flying bombers can drop bombs in the mountains but the outcome would always be unknown. It is a guerrilla war and you have to fight it at the same level.
You have to follow them in the mountains and that increases the number of army losses in terms of life.

It is the loss of life that is a big hurdle for the Pakistan army and the US. No one wants to take that loss otherwise I think the Pak army would have fried all the Talibans already.

I am not a racist to blame all followers of Islam.

The US and Pakistan are starting another strategy that is now generally known as the Alanbar strategy. In Iraq the US bought many tribes to fights the insurgents. Tons of money was spent to show that the surge worked.

So now the US and Pakistan would spend money(of course the US money) in both FATA and Afghanistan to buy off some tribes that are not completely allied with the Taliban and encourage them to face Taliban in the mountains where both the US army and the Pakistan army have failed repeatedly as they cannot move their equipment in the areas and are unfamiliar with the terrain.

What are the chances of the success? No one can tell. People who have read history of the Soviet occupation know that afghans switch loyalties very quickly. In the old days, the groups of fighters would move from one side to another based on the money they were getting.

That means even some taliban would come forward to get the money but what they do afterwards...is any body's guess.

The Pakistan army should start cleaning up one area at a time and make all efforts to push these criminals back in Afghanistan for the US army to worry about them.

Re: # 55 If USA delivers Kashmir like Kosavo pakistan army will fight like hell and liqidate Jehadi in no time. It is not in national interest to have full stop as when this double game will come to stop and money stops. Man and armies are slave to money, same dirty money. America wants cheaply pakistan army to fight for them, they will but not with this peanuts thrown and army and leaders children getting entrance visas to white west countries. Pay as good as nato soldiers to pakistani army they will deliver Osama Bin Laden in know time, packaged, deliverwd, no questions. Americans are stingy and not paying adequately.

Re: # 55

hp mian,

..... i agree with everything you say in your post - i think pakistan should force america to do its share in killing the taliban .... america is not doing enough - it should be using high flying b-52's dropping tons of bombs instead of using sissy 500 pound hellfires from drones ..... heck, even the ragtag taliban can drive up with one ton bomb in a truck ......

.... the part i don't agree with you on is that al-qaeda is a 'hoax' ...... it is very real - it is as real as death ...... you just might know it by its other name - 'political islam' which is sometimes simply called 'islam'

It is abusive relationship both ways. They use us badly and we do not deliver. They are trying to buy us cheap way, it does not work.

Alqaeeda is a hoax but there is no doubt that Taliban are a reality. They are supported by the people in FATA. I think some of us get caught up in the conspiracy theories too. The US does not have enough army to fight these folks in FATA and that is why they are pressing Pakistan to help out.

For the last six years the US paid every single dollar spent on the 100,000 Pakistani army posted in the tribal areas but results are not encouraging.

As I said the US does not have enough army to send to Afghanistan but even if it did, in the current financial crisis, this admin does not have the strength to send more troops out there and start a war in the Pakistan area. But that does not mean they can't force the Pak army to fulfill its promise for the money the pak army has taken from the US over the year.

Blame it on the US, ISI or the Pak army as much as you want but no government should allow these criminals from FATA and their friends Taliban to harass and destabilize Pakistan.

The US would never make the tactical mistake of entering Pakistani area for military campaign. The US may continue incursions but never a full fledged attack- at least not in this admin. Any crossing of the Pakistani borders by the US or the NATO armies would just legitimize the attacks on Afghanistan from the FATA areas by the criminals. That will also end the Pak army's whatever cooperation the US is getting now.

The game as it is being played out now and the right strategy is to force the Pak army to be more proactive in FATA and the US should be ready to pay part of the expenses with new arms to the Pakistan army and the political Government to continue to provide the cover.

I think in the end if Pakistan gets rid of the criminals in FATA, that would be good for Pakistan. So it is a win-win strategy for the US and Pakistan.

It is in Pakistan's interest to end this Taliban nonsense in Pakistani areas. They should go and fight the US in Afghanistan.

Dost writes "It seems that now the US has decided that it has to fight the taleban in Pakistan itself, as Pakistan is not doing it."

Mian you are one weak analyst. First your "data", the claims of one journalist and his offer of giving up is job is quite pathetic, second, the Americans have enough "taleban" to fight in Afghanistan, why would they be interested in Pakistan when they have their hands full already? The reason is similar to why they "relocated" the al-qaeda to Iraq. It was about Iraq stupid not al-qaeda, just as right now its not about the Taliban stupid, its about Pakistan....comprendey?

Have a nice day,

TNI Masadi