Emerging Pakistan-U.S. relations

#62 Posted by masadi
"They have been relocated into Pakistan as a "problem" because the US is interested in those areas of Pakistan."

Many people say that BUT no one has ever said what interest US has in 'those areas'. I understand the US wants to stay in Afghanistan for strategic purposes for a long time. I understand that the US wants to continue the WOT to maintain its occupation of Afghanistan. But what good fata is to the US?

The US can be present in FATA with cooperation from the Pakistan army. After all Pakistan has never said no to providing bases to the US.

Initially, it was good to use the Pak army agents as alqaeeda or Taliban in the area to maintain the occupation but now I think it is beyond the Pak army and the ISI. They have lost control and that worries the US.

I think the US thought that the ISI was double crossing and they asked for reforms in ISI. Those reforms are happening. Number two, number three, and number four from the old leadership are already gone. Musharraf brought his trusted man as number one with US approval. The situation still hasn't changed on the ground. So it is not the ISI controlling these Taliban. They may have some agents but not in control.

Now going by your theory, if we assume that the US wants FATA for some reason, wouldn't the US just add another 4 to 5 million who oppose the US under its control?

The whole problem for the US is the Pashtoon belt, why would the US add more Pashtoon in the mix for its own army to fight?
There are no known natural resources in the area. The US can use Gwadar with Pakistani permission and it has neutralized china's interest in Gwadar by positioning itself in afghanistan.

So why should it occupy FATA?

Re: # 65

hp,

... why is it so diffult for you to understand what masadi is trying to say ...let me try and explain it .... the us elite want to control fata and every other place on god's green earth because they are evil - simply evil ...... they are like boogie men who eat babies and feast on human blood .... you are trying to find geo-political reasons where there arn't any .....

.... in any case the afghans will (and do) sell their own mothers for a few bucks so what you had suggested before will work ..... buy half of them and then turn them against each other - if it worked in the anmbar province it will work in waziristan ..... unfortunately pakistan does not have the money to buy a pao of ganderis and its army couldn't fight a hijra with ghungroos on her feet ...... hence, we need the americans to do our dirty job

Re: # 64

masadi mian,

.... this is a well known fact and well documented ... according to my uncle -a durrani) - an afridi was walking along on a hot summer day with a coin clutched tightly in his fist; he opened his fist to look at the coin and found that it was all wet ... in a gentle voice he said, "paisa, paisa, waley jaree .. kuna warqam, ta na warqam"

..... do you need any more proof of the venal nature of the pathan ?

#62 Posted by masadi on September 20, 2008 3:02:24 pm


The "Taliban" on the Western Frontier is a US created problem


Nice way to give pakiland a pass for it's support of islamic terrorism as a state policy...

all pakis can be fooled all the time..

Re: # 68

arjun mian,

.... please don't lump mad masadi with the rest of the pakis who might be clueless and blinded by faith, but come nowhere close to the idiocy of this man ...... now i wish the brroklyn community college had given him tenure so that we could keep an eye on him right here ..... by now we would have shipped him off to bellview ...... unfortunately, in pakistan it is hard to differentiate between the sane and the insane ........

HP writes "Many people say that BUT no one has ever said what interest US has in 'those areas'"

HP sahib, salam and greetings of peace. When the "interest" is fueling the engine that is driving a farcial GWOT, you do not need land-specific interests. The US behemoth is like a spreading cancer, incorporating greater and greater areas of the globe forming nodal tumors everywhere it gets a chance. The purpose is escalation through handing over Pakistan to the Taliban, regardless of what Arjun says there was no Taliban problem in Pakistan before the farcical US GWOT. It is not just FATA as well, it is the Baluchistan area as well that the US is interested in that is strategically important to surround Iran together with be quite resource rich

If I remember correctly, it was you who said that suicide bombing is the symbol of the farcial GWOT and since the center of activity is shifting from Iraq to Afghanistan per US design, this symbolism will be most evident in this area. Now you've done a 100% about face.

Have a nice day,
TNI Masadi

In # 70

Regardless of what Arjun says there was no Taliban problem in Pakistan before the farce of the US GWOT. It is not just FATA , it is the Baluchistan area as well that the US is interested in which is strategically important for it to surround Iran, together with being quite resource rich

In fact let me conclude by saying that the US "thinks" that Afghanistan is much more dangerous for it, compared to Pakistan and FATA, and hence it is looking for closure over there as well as opening a new front in Pakistan. If you notice Iraq and then the problems of Afghanistan have all but vanished from the mainstream media. This is not just coincidence, even Iran has gone to the background...

Hamid sahib, after the Nacirema incident, you have lost all steam, so please keep your 2 cents where they don't reveal your ignorance and cause you further disgrace.

thank you kindly,.

TNI Masadi

in #70 "From Iraq to Pakistan (via Afghanistan of course) per US design.."

Re: # 56

[They use us badly and we do not deliver. They are trying to buy us cheap way, it does not work.]

Ahmedmadani sahib, name your price!

HP,
Just wait.

dost-mittar #: "So, Pakistan has already withdrawn from the war, if it ever was in it, and is letting the Americans do it; the difference is that earlier it was making the pretense of "fighting" the taleban to the Americans, now it is making the pretense of "protesting" American actions for domestic consumption..."

...i am not sure how accurate this is....

...pakistan is the main (and probably only) logistical line for nato in afghanistan.....this means thousands of trucks must have passed through pakistan, providing logistics to nato.....

...in addition, pakistan is the main air route to afghanistan for nato....

...pakistan has 120,000 troops on the border with afghanistan......

....there is active air force and army action going on in the tribal areas, by pakistani troops....

....pakistani troop casualities are higher than all of nato combined.......and pakistani troops have been the biggest target of suicide bombings....

this would, surely, indicate that pakistan is actively involved......

...as i have said if the usa with $80 billion could not win against the insurgency in iraq and with $20 billion a year is losing in afghanistan......how in the world is pakistan going to win in tribal areas.......

.......the whole gwot is coming back to haunt its originators.......this was an ill-though out, ill-planned war with no goals defined......it had reluctant allies who saw its shortcomings......and it is now totally unravelling.....

....the usa will have to announce its retreat in afghanistan, much like it has done in iraq.....it's nato allies are no longer fighting on the frontlines in either country.....

once this whole thing unravels, who will be left holding the bag......obviously iraq and afghanistan......but if pakistan doesn't change its policies shortly....then pakistan will be left holding the bag also.......

......pakistan needs to disengage from this war.......much like canada has done......it needs to tell the usa that it has done all it can.......

then it needs to plan out a solution for this war, internally.....i.e. how to handle the internal extremism......and that should be done keeping in mind pakistan's interests.......

otherwise, it will always seem that pakistan is fighting america's war......and it will never be possible for any pakistan govt. to gather the critical mass support it needs to tackle this problem......

HP #: "The Pakistan army should start cleaning up one area at a time and make all efforts to push these criminals back in Afghanistan for the US army to worry about them..."

...i think all of this is well and good in theory....but i am not sure if it works out practically....

....first and foremost, take a look at the whole gwot....it has now gone on longer than ww11, with no end in sight....all western nations have slowly, but surely, disengaged themselves from the fighting side of this war....it is now, only pakistan and usa fighting.....

.....the usa has lost in iraq....it is withdrawing slowly.....it is losing in afghanistan.......and will eventually lose out totally.....

based on this, pakistan is, now, part of an ill-planned gwot, with no end, fighting in an area, where no one has ever won a war in the past century......

added to this, pakistan is paying with extremely heavy internal casualities......

so, while i agree with the theory of what you are saying in pushing out the taliban......there doesn't seem to be any practical way to do it, militarily.....

and as long as pakistan is considered even remotely to be fighting america's war, there will never be any national consensus behind any strategy adapted by pakistan......

i think pakistan has to, first and foremost, get out of the american alliance in gwot.....then the pakistanis need to sit down and plan out a long term strategy for handling extremism, in pakistan, based on pakistan's own interest......and not based on an ill-thought gwot....

Urstruly#53:

It is not my contention, it is Hamid Mir's that Pak army has not killed any taleban, only some innocent people. BTW, based on my personal interacts, I would say that, generally speaking, there is no difference between taleban and Pashtoon; they all support their Pushtoon brothers' fight against their enemy in Afghanistan even if some call it jehad.

masadi#54:

I do not think that the US will attack Pakistan; there is no reason for them to do so - attacking Pakistan, presuming they have enough resources - a big if - will cost hundreds of billions while Pak army and civilians can be bought much more cheaply. A civilian govt. would find it very difficult to fight its own people and the US should/would understand that but the covert Pak support for the taleban will have to end. Woodward has already suggested that the US will adapt the Anbar strategy in Afghanistan as well but incursions into Pakinstan will also become more intensive, and with the help of "bought" taleban, better targeted.