Amjad Hussain October 27, 2008
#16 Posted by Amjad-Mirza on November 1, 2008 1:39:45 pm
Response #10---#14 . Kulhare
As far stoning or ‘rajam’ is concerned it’s not in the Quran, so it’s not ordained by God or the Prophet. It is not an Islamic or Had punishment. I fully agree it’s barbaric and amounts to extrajudicial killing.
Pakistan’s Council of Islamic Ideology states in its report that just 2 counts carry capital punishment in Islam. That for cold-blooded murder & spreading ‘terror or mischief on earth’.
Adultery carries symbolic flogging and just that…not stoning.
Unfortunately just one ‘out of context’ example is sited by misguided mullahs of the tradition of the prophet that is regularly misused to justify such barbaric acts. People forget that it was a case to punish a Jewish woman according to the laws of the Torah by the Jews. Remember that in Medina, at the time of the prophet, several communities co-existed each observing their own laws and traditions. That case had nothing to do with the Muslims or Islam; hence it can not be used as an example to inflict horrendous punishment on women.
‘Strong arm of the state’ should take action against the culprits and bring them to justice for extra-judical killings.
As far stoning or ‘rajam’ is concerned it’s not in the Quran, so it’s not ordained by God or the Prophet. It is not an Islamic or Had punishment. I fully agree it’s barbaric and amounts to extrajudicial killing.
Pakistan’s Council of Islamic Ideology states in its report that just 2 counts carry capital punishment in Islam. That for cold-blooded murder & spreading ‘terror or mischief on earth’.
Adultery carries symbolic flogging and just that…not stoning.
Unfortunately just one ‘out of context’ example is sited by misguided mullahs of the tradition of the prophet that is regularly misused to justify such barbaric acts. People forget that it was a case to punish a Jewish woman according to the laws of the Torah by the Jews. Remember that in Medina, at the time of the prophet, several communities co-existed each observing their own laws and traditions. That case had nothing to do with the Muslims or Islam; hence it can not be used as an example to inflict horrendous punishment on women.
‘Strong arm of the state’ should take action against the culprits and bring them to justice for extra-judical killings.
#15 Posted by Amjad-Mirza on November 1, 2008 1:26:20 pm
Response to #7 Tahmed32—Thanks for your kind comments & wonderful suggestion. I will indeed make this article available to wider readership.
You and other ‘Chowkies’ are also welcome to circulate it widely amongst friends, opinion makers, colleagues and those that may benefit from its contents. Particularly the legal fraternity and law-makers in Pakistan. It’s my humble contribution to dispel the ‘myth’ that primary Islamic Law (The Quran) ordains and condones capital punishments as the ‘norm’ and ‘Muslim Governments’ will be in defiance of God’s Law if they granted reprieves to the condemned? I hope it generates debate that is both objective and rational.
You and other ‘Chowkies’ are also welcome to circulate it widely amongst friends, opinion makers, colleagues and those that may benefit from its contents. Particularly the legal fraternity and law-makers in Pakistan. It’s my humble contribution to dispel the ‘myth’ that primary Islamic Law (The Quran) ordains and condones capital punishments as the ‘norm’ and ‘Muslim Governments’ will be in defiance of God’s Law if they granted reprieves to the condemned? I hope it generates debate that is both objective and rational.
#14 Posted by Alphalpha on October 29, 2008 2:34:01 pm
and furthermore, those who promote divine laws and morality are idiots.
#13 Posted by tahmed32 on October 29, 2008 2:28:42 pm
further to #12 ..and those who promote sharia laws (with their emphasis on brutal punishments matched with "criminal procedures" that belong in a comedy routine rather than a justice system) are partners in crime on such hellish practices as the killing of this 18 year old.
#12 Posted by tahmed32 on October 29, 2008 2:23:08 pm
In sindh a dog was let loose to attack an 18 year old, and she was then shot dead, with father forced to watch. The excuse was that she bore an illegitimate child.
While the excuse was fake (it was a land dispute), this is another example of the misguided - indeed satanic - ways of those who use "Islam" as a convenient cover to promote their own ends.
While the excuse was fake (it was a land dispute), this is another example of the misguided - indeed satanic - ways of those who use "Islam" as a convenient cover to promote their own ends.
#11 Posted by Kulharee on October 29, 2008 5:51:00 am
Correction to # 10: she was stoned in a soccer field and thousands gathered to watch the stoning (and not necessarily taking part in the act itself).
#10 Posted by Kulharee on October 29, 2008 5:48:21 am
There’s a tiny news in the NYTimes today about a Somali Rape victim stoned to death. The woman, 23, had been raped and the Islamic authorities determined that she was guilty of adultery. She was buried upto her neck and then stoned by thousands in a soccer field and thousands gathered to watch it. This happened in Kismayu a region of Somalia controlled by Islamists. Don’t you guys think that such laws belong in gutter?
#9 Posted by LOOP on October 29, 2008 2:50:39 am
firstly to argue about shariah law in a country where none exsists whatsoever is a complete waste of time and secondly for it to be implemented by judges and lawyers majority of which would not know how many rukus there are in the Quran is a much bigger plunder.
first do away with the western systen, set a up a strong islamic law system with muftis and scholars and then determine who should be beheaded and who not.
however, to argue that capital punishment is wrong or outdated is kufar.
first do away with the western systen, set a up a strong islamic law system with muftis and scholars and then determine who should be beheaded and who not.
however, to argue that capital punishment is wrong or outdated is kufar.
#8 Posted by tahmed32 on October 28, 2008 7:17:56 pm
Amjad sahib: btw, my late father had written an article rejecting Zia's Hadood Ordinance on the basis of the Quran, and he had argued the same point you make (i.e. that the "mercy" aspect that is endemic in the Quran is totally ignored by these evil laws).
#7 Posted by tahmed32 on October 28, 2008 7:15:58 pm
Amjad Sahib: This is a substantive article on an important issue. It also corrects an important misconception about "sharia laws", namely that they represent the teachings of the Quran, rather than in fact being the opposite. That is, while the Quran emphasizes mercy, these laws are merciless in their application. I fully agree with your call for a moratorium on capital punishments on the basis not just of the Quran but also on the miscarriage of justice that often takes place, with the innocent often being executed due to corrupt police practices.
I think you should publish this article in a forum with broader readership than chowk.
I think you should publish this article in a forum with broader readership than chowk.
#6 Posted by Amjad-Mirza on October 28, 2008 4:46:18 pm
Thanks to barrister AKC for the highlighting the case of Mahmood Tayab, who served 16 years (if correct almost a life sentence…that amounts to 32 years with remission)for a petty crime of stealing Rs3200 underscores the points I have emphasized in my article. If criminal justice system doesn’t inspire confidence in such small matters, how could it be trusted with matters concerning life & death?
If we are to err, then it must be on the side of caution.
Another important issue raised in this case is one of proportionality [punishment should reflect the crime committed], 16 years for stealing Rs3200? This is way out of order.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there were more like him forgotten & rotting away in the dungeons of Pakistan.
After all Kashmir Singh spent 35 years on death row; before he was discovered by Ansar Barney and set freed to be re-united with his family.
I was glad to have my brother back home in 2006 after 18 years, what troubles me most is that many might not make it, some of them have spent half their adult lives behind bars-yet they are still facing the gallows, despite assurances by the Prime Minister & the President.
If we are to err, then it must be on the side of caution.
Another important issue raised in this case is one of proportionality [punishment should reflect the crime committed], 16 years for stealing Rs3200? This is way out of order.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there were more like him forgotten & rotting away in the dungeons of Pakistan.
After all Kashmir Singh spent 35 years on death row; before he was discovered by Ansar Barney and set freed to be re-united with his family.
I was glad to have my brother back home in 2006 after 18 years, what troubles me most is that many might not make it, some of them have spent half their adult lives behind bars-yet they are still facing the gallows, despite assurances by the Prime Minister & the President.
#5 Posted by Kulharee on October 28, 2008 8:46:23 am
It’s terrible what happened to you brother. Justice will prevail. Keep fighting, and wish you luck.
#4 Posted by barristerakc on October 28, 2008 7:41:27 am
What really needs to be reformed is the lower-judiciary on war-footing apart from the working of the law ministry.
I went to Sukkar Jail on a Legal Aide Mission (I do it because of the guilt) and there I found Mahmood Tayab who was in jail since 1992 for stealing of property worth Rs.3200 and he got justice in 2008.
I went to Sukkar Jail on a Legal Aide Mission (I do it because of the guilt) and there I found Mahmood Tayab who was in jail since 1992 for stealing of property worth Rs.3200 and he got justice in 2008.
#3 Posted by Amjad-Mirza on October 28, 2008 7:24:44 am
Thank you Qasim92 for your words of wisdom. It’s my humble contribution to dispel the ‘myth’ that primary Islamic Law (The Quran) ordains and condones capital punishments as the ‘norm’ and ‘Muslim Governments’ will be in defiance of God’s Law if they granted reprieves to the condemned?
The learned are aware that there is such impediment. I hope that all the stake holders and civil society in Pakistan would ascertain that PPP-coalition government honours its manifesto comments to restore and reform the Superior Judiciary and criminal justice system. People do not want to be ruled by men but governed by laws that are just & fair.
The learned are aware that there is such impediment. I hope that all the stake holders and civil society in Pakistan would ascertain that PPP-coalition government honours its manifesto comments to restore and reform the Superior Judiciary and criminal justice system. People do not want to be ruled by men but governed by laws that are just & fair.
#2 Posted by qasim92 on October 28, 2008 5:30:16 am
This is one of the best opinion pieces I have read on this site, well argued and balanced. This God forsaken country needs independent, competent criminal justice system that is free from political & sectarian manipulations. The recovery of the ‘missing people’ who where kidnapped from the streets & are held in concentration camps in Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay should be returned to the loved ones and the Superior Judiciary restored to pre-November 2007 positions.
State shouldn’t have powers to ‘kidnap’ and execute people on the basis of their political and religious believes. I agree with the author and support the freeze on capital punishments and reform of blasphemy Laws in Pakistan that have brought nothing but condemnation and disrespect for Islam word-wide.
State shouldn’t have powers to ‘kidnap’ and execute people on the basis of their political and religious believes. I agree with the author and support the freeze on capital punishments and reform of blasphemy Laws in Pakistan that have brought nothing but condemnation and disrespect for Islam word-wide.
#1 Posted by barristerakc on October 27, 2008 10:18:58 pm
YAY to Capital punishment!
I) we do not have enough spaces in jail to fill in the convicts
II) it’s the Islamic Way
III) it’s good for my profession
I) we do not have enough spaces in jail to fill in the convicts
II) it’s the Islamic Way
III) it’s good for my profession
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