Sidra Omer October 31, 2008
#13 Posted by delhiwala on November 4, 2008 5:15:22 am
God punished Sikhs for not being Sikhs.
If Sikhs could follow the path of Khalsa there would not be any issues but present day Sikhs are trying to immitate the West and others to let go of their own past.
Dasam Guru also faced similar situations but he organized against all odds. There is no caste in Sikhism yet the comparisons are made based on castes by people. Why?
If you notice most of the time caste is brought out it is by those who have let go of Sikhism not by practising Sikhs.
I am so fortunate that I am dont believe in caste and I have mixed heritage.
If Sikhs could follow the path of Khalsa there would not be any issues but present day Sikhs are trying to immitate the West and others to let go of their own past.
Dasam Guru also faced similar situations but he organized against all odds. There is no caste in Sikhism yet the comparisons are made based on castes by people. Why?
If you notice most of the time caste is brought out it is by those who have let go of Sikhism not by practising Sikhs.
I am so fortunate that I am dont believe in caste and I have mixed heritage.
#12 Posted by KaalChakra on November 4, 2008 1:03:31 am
nkg, this has not been an area of my study, so I don't wish to say more than I should.
I just believe that while Guru Nanak was a great Guru and remains an eternal presence with Sikhs (as with Hindus), Sikhism itself is about ALL Gurus, most importantly about the present Guru - Guru Granth Sahib.
Furthermore, while there is prejudice, it calls for better education of those who are prejudiced. 5Ks themselves don't hurt anyone individually nor do they come in the way of any discourse socially. They are a mark of discipline, at worst a bit of inconvenience for some themselves.
I just believe that while Guru Nanak was a great Guru and remains an eternal presence with Sikhs (as with Hindus), Sikhism itself is about ALL Gurus, most importantly about the present Guru - Guru Granth Sahib.
Furthermore, while there is prejudice, it calls for better education of those who are prejudiced. 5Ks themselves don't hurt anyone individually nor do they come in the way of any discourse socially. They are a mark of discipline, at worst a bit of inconvenience for some themselves.
#11 Posted by nkg on November 4, 2008 12:42:26 am
Re: # 10
Kaal....
"Please don't confuse 5ks with religious flaunting. Those are the requirements of the religion itself, not optional items (even if many Sikhs do not wear them all for many reasons)...."
These 5 Ks were introduced under certain circumstances ( not in the original concept envisioned by Guru Nanak). That has changed. So, why to continue.
Have you checked it why is it essential to maintain 5 ks and if you don't maintain, what you loose? When the US people, with their limited knowledge of Asians, attack Sikhs, can you blame them 100%? Not that way....
"...And nobody should forget anything (except Hindus who are past masters in the field of forgetting). A wiser option many be to remember, yet to move on..."
With excisting police and legal setup in India, it is not possible to punish the guilty. This is reality....
Kaal....
"Please don't confuse 5ks with religious flaunting. Those are the requirements of the religion itself, not optional items (even if many Sikhs do not wear them all for many reasons)...."
These 5 Ks were introduced under certain circumstances ( not in the original concept envisioned by Guru Nanak). That has changed. So, why to continue.
Have you checked it why is it essential to maintain 5 ks and if you don't maintain, what you loose? When the US people, with their limited knowledge of Asians, attack Sikhs, can you blame them 100%? Not that way....
"...And nobody should forget anything (except Hindus who are past masters in the field of forgetting). A wiser option many be to remember, yet to move on..."
With excisting police and legal setup in India, it is not possible to punish the guilty. This is reality....
#10 Posted by KaalChakra on November 4, 2008 12:28:58 am
nkg,
Please don't confuse 5ks with religious flaunting. Those are the requirements of the religion itself, not optional items (even if many Sikhs do not wear them all for many reasons).
And nobody should forget anything (except Hindus who are past masters in the field of forgetting). A wiser option many be to remember, yet to move on.
Please don't confuse 5ks with religious flaunting. Those are the requirements of the religion itself, not optional items (even if many Sikhs do not wear them all for many reasons).
And nobody should forget anything (except Hindus who are past masters in the field of forgetting). A wiser option many be to remember, yet to move on.
#9 Posted by nkg on November 3, 2008 6:30:07 pm
Sidra...
5 Ks were not introduced during the time of Nanak...
To Sikhs of this forum....
There are lot of positives about Sikhs. They are the only people who loves jokes about themselves....
Couple of points they should remember....
You need to change with time and place. If you stick to the time of Mughals (5 Ks were adopted to handle Mughal/Islamic barbarism), you end up nowhere. Today Sikhs are being targetted due to the strange attire, they try to stick to without trying to understand the circumstance. If you are in India, proudly flaunt your 5 Ks. But why to do the same in USA or Europe?
And please try to forget the past ( 1984 Riots). In India, riot victims never gets justice, because you can not punish mob....
5 Ks were not introduced during the time of Nanak...
To Sikhs of this forum....
There are lot of positives about Sikhs. They are the only people who loves jokes about themselves....
Couple of points they should remember....
You need to change with time and place. If you stick to the time of Mughals (5 Ks were adopted to handle Mughal/Islamic barbarism), you end up nowhere. Today Sikhs are being targetted due to the strange attire, they try to stick to without trying to understand the circumstance. If you are in India, proudly flaunt your 5 Ks. But why to do the same in USA or Europe?
And please try to forget the past ( 1984 Riots). In India, riot victims never gets justice, because you can not punish mob....
#8 Posted by kaurasach on November 3, 2008 3:49:25 pm
the worst are the bhapas who after suffering make statements that anti sikh acts are exaggerated.....
ehna di dari putt kay ehna they chitraan ch they deo
ehna di dari putt kay ehna they chitraan ch they deo
#7 Posted by kaurasach on November 3, 2008 3:37:37 pm
Politics made it a water issue......there was no water issue...in punjab, you could find water 40 feet below ground when this happened...
CRPF openly boasted how they were under orders to create terrorists by torturing youth in Punjab....so the kanjree would win the elections in divided land....
Sodhi....aren't Sodhis the ones who took the original "bir" of the gurus and mocked Guru Gobind Singh?
CRPF openly boasted how they were under orders to create terrorists by torturing youth in Punjab....so the kanjree would win the elections in divided land....
Sodhi....aren't Sodhis the ones who took the original "bir" of the gurus and mocked Guru Gobind Singh?
#6 Posted by pinku on November 3, 2008 10:49:21 am
Here is something about Sikhs and Muslims of Kashmir, from not so recent history of Sikhism, the gift that Islam gave them from the very begining and the reason why Sikhism originated.., plus a little about many Brahmins who may now be living as fanatical muslims in Kashmir...
[[
There were a great many rebellions during Aurangzebs's reign, including those by the Rajput states of Marwar and Mewar, and the Sikhs. Things came to such a head that Guru Tegh Bahadur, the ninth Guru (Spiritual Pontiff) of Sikhism, was executed by Aurangzeb for standing up against the forcible conversion of Kashmiri Hindu Brahmins and refusing to convert to Islam. Aurangzeb had demanded that all Kashmiri Brahmins convert to Islam. The Kashmiris then asked for assistance from the Sikh Guru. Guru Tegh Bahadur was proclaimed their Guru, and he advised Aurangzeb that if Tegh Bahadhur could be converted to Islam, then the Brahmins would convert to Islam. Tegh Bahadhur was then executed after his refusal to convert. This day, November 11 is still commemorated by the Sikh community. The son of Guru Tegh Bahadur, Guru Gobind Singh, the 10th Guru of Sikhism, led an open revolt against Aurangzeb's forces. It is thought that a letter to Aurangzeb by Guru Gobind Singh (The Zafarnama) contributed to the death of the aged Emperor. The letter highlighted all the atrocties that the Emperor had committed. He is said to have had extreme remorse after reading it, and soon ceased many of his hostilities towards his non-Muslim subjects, especially before his death.
]]
This is not just to offset any negative campaign by muslims against Hindu/Sikhs but also to remind Kashmiries, Hindus and Sikhs what their ancestors have gone through... FOrgiving is perfect but don't forget...
[[
There were a great many rebellions during Aurangzebs's reign, including those by the Rajput states of Marwar and Mewar, and the Sikhs. Things came to such a head that Guru Tegh Bahadur, the ninth Guru (Spiritual Pontiff) of Sikhism, was executed by Aurangzeb for standing up against the forcible conversion of Kashmiri Hindu Brahmins and refusing to convert to Islam. Aurangzeb had demanded that all Kashmiri Brahmins convert to Islam. The Kashmiris then asked for assistance from the Sikh Guru. Guru Tegh Bahadur was proclaimed their Guru, and he advised Aurangzeb that if Tegh Bahadhur could be converted to Islam, then the Brahmins would convert to Islam. Tegh Bahadhur was then executed after his refusal to convert. This day, November 11 is still commemorated by the Sikh community. The son of Guru Tegh Bahadur, Guru Gobind Singh, the 10th Guru of Sikhism, led an open revolt against Aurangzeb's forces. It is thought that a letter to Aurangzeb by Guru Gobind Singh (The Zafarnama) contributed to the death of the aged Emperor. The letter highlighted all the atrocties that the Emperor had committed. He is said to have had extreme remorse after reading it, and soon ceased many of his hostilities towards his non-Muslim subjects, especially before his death.
]]
This is not just to offset any negative campaign by muslims against Hindu/Sikhs but also to remind Kashmiries, Hindus and Sikhs what their ancestors have gone through... FOrgiving is perfect but don't forget...
#5 Posted by muqaddam on November 3, 2008 10:48:16 am
I sympathise with the Sikh community in toto. The sorry state of affairs in Punjab could have been avoided but for the thoughtless machinations of ruling (Anti)National Congress.
The track record of Congress Party:
1948: Nehru was requested by the Army top brass to give them one more week and they would bring the entire J&K under Indian control. Nehru developed cold feet and ran to UN leaving part of the state in Pakistan's control. Had we taken Gilgit we could have been at a distance of shaking hands with the USSR and with a friendly regime in Afghanistan we could have had a direct surface link to USSR.Today Pakistan is playing the dog in the manger as far as India's desire to get access to Central Asian countries
1962: Nehru failed diplomatically to counter China and did not foresee the Chinese aggression. As a result, India was humiliated on the battlefield for no fault of the jawans and lost several chunks of territory to the Commie neighbour. On top of it all he had the temerity to justify the loss of our soverign territory by saying that not a blade of grass grew in Aksai Chin which the Chiks captured. Strange coming from a Prime Minister
1984: Indira Gandhi messed up the Punjab issue, Op Blue Star, consequent alienation of the Sikhs, which eventually took her life
1987: Rajiv Gandhi embarked on the ill-advised operation against the LTTE in Sri Lanka. Prem Dass was laughing all the way to Candy while the Indians were doing his dirty work. Indian Army lost 1800 men and in return we got nothing. This episode ended in rajiv losing his life.
1989: Again Rajiv meddled in the elections in J&K which led to unrest and subsequently militancy from which the nation has not yet been able to recover. Prior to 1989 J&K was a real heaven, the local Kashmiris although resentful of Indian rule, were peaceful . Post 1989 everyone has suffered the Kashmiri Pandits, Muslims and the Nation on the whole.
God save us from Congress Party
The only bright spot in its long history was the Indo-Pak war of 1971 which saw the dismemberemnt of Pakistan
The track record of Congress Party:
1948: Nehru was requested by the Army top brass to give them one more week and they would bring the entire J&K under Indian control. Nehru developed cold feet and ran to UN leaving part of the state in Pakistan's control. Had we taken Gilgit we could have been at a distance of shaking hands with the USSR and with a friendly regime in Afghanistan we could have had a direct surface link to USSR.Today Pakistan is playing the dog in the manger as far as India's desire to get access to Central Asian countries
1962: Nehru failed diplomatically to counter China and did not foresee the Chinese aggression. As a result, India was humiliated on the battlefield for no fault of the jawans and lost several chunks of territory to the Commie neighbour. On top of it all he had the temerity to justify the loss of our soverign territory by saying that not a blade of grass grew in Aksai Chin which the Chiks captured. Strange coming from a Prime Minister
1984: Indira Gandhi messed up the Punjab issue, Op Blue Star, consequent alienation of the Sikhs, which eventually took her life
1987: Rajiv Gandhi embarked on the ill-advised operation against the LTTE in Sri Lanka. Prem Dass was laughing all the way to Candy while the Indians were doing his dirty work. Indian Army lost 1800 men and in return we got nothing. This episode ended in rajiv losing his life.
1989: Again Rajiv meddled in the elections in J&K which led to unrest and subsequently militancy from which the nation has not yet been able to recover. Prior to 1989 J&K was a real heaven, the local Kashmiris although resentful of Indian rule, were peaceful . Post 1989 everyone has suffered the Kashmiri Pandits, Muslims and the Nation on the whole.
God save us from Congress Party
The only bright spot in its long history was the Indo-Pak war of 1971 which saw the dismemberemnt of Pakistan
#4 Posted by dost_mittar on November 3, 2008 8:36:16 am
It's a sad story of both the Sodhi family and the Sikh community. But Sikhs are a brave people, they don't forget but they do forgive and move on. This is what most of them have done.
The author seems to be quite ignorant about the sikh faith. "Keskara" does not mean turban but in fact combines two Ks, Kesh (unshorn hair) and Kara (steel bracelet). Turban is not part of the 5Ks.
The author seems to be quite ignorant about the sikh faith. "Keskara" does not mean turban but in fact combines two Ks, Kesh (unshorn hair) and Kara (steel bracelet). Turban is not part of the 5Ks.
#3 Posted by laddu on November 3, 2008 7:03:37 am
"..It was called an 'Encounter' when the police shot a Sikh just for being a Sikh...."
This is the most stupid recount of what happened in Punjab twenty years back.
This momeen has no idea what happened and that is why they would never succeed their Jehad or inciting Sikhs for a Khaali-sthaan.
The TNT-mongers from Pakistan would never succeed in their Global-TNT or communalization of the Indian nation.
This is the most stupid recount of what happened in Punjab twenty years back.
This momeen has no idea what happened and that is why they would never succeed their Jehad or inciting Sikhs for a Khaali-sthaan.
The TNT-mongers from Pakistan would never succeed in their Global-TNT or communalization of the Indian nation.
#2 Posted by kabuliwallah on November 3, 2008 3:39:38 am
The guards she trusted to protect her avenged the anger and loss the Sikh community was feeling. They killed her while she was walking with them on a cemented pathway. The rows of trees on either side of them were the only witnesses to the vengeance. But following that, the nation witnessed the mass murder of thousands of Sikhs by the people of India.
i do not know how you can blame the entire "people of India" for the inhuman acts of a few sadists. It is akin to saying all Americans are responsible for the anti-Arab backlash post 9/11. Intentionally or otherwise, you have exposed your own bias.
i do not know how you can blame the entire "people of India" for the inhuman acts of a few sadists. It is akin to saying all Americans are responsible for the anti-Arab backlash post 9/11. Intentionally or otherwise, you have exposed your own bias.
#1 Posted by majumdar on November 3, 2008 12:34:10 am
The incidents of 1984 and our continued failure to punish the culprits would forever be a blot on India. And it is much to the big heartedness of this community that the rest of India has been to a large extent forgiven by them.
Btw, it is not true that most Sikhs have moved away from Punjab or India. There are more Sikhs in India than anywhere and they are doing reasonably well. Many have emigrated but for most it was for economic reasons (perfectly legit)
Regards
Btw, it is not true that most Sikhs have moved away from Punjab or India. There are more Sikhs in India than anywhere and they are doing reasonably well. Many have emigrated but for most it was for economic reasons (perfectly legit)
Regards
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