Yes we can, Obama!

#209 Posted by hamidm2 on

hamidm, you beat me by a couple of seconds (while replying to tahmed's comment) but more importantly and significantly in amount of humour:-)

#209 hamidm: and let me remind you..you are a comedian.
:-)

#207 Posted by tahmed32 on

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And no demographer worth his salt would take seriously what DM sahib and the Indian sources he dwells on claim - that it is Islam (or any other religion) that has a major (or even significant) impact on fertility rates.
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But we can ask demographer to be worth his sugar instead and take it as "it is Islam in India which has major influence on muslims in India to keep producing more and more children".

If there are some states that are exception, we can add them to exception list as well. And then if we can get some recordings of Mullahs while they say so, we can add them as move files??


Another option is to do a census of muslims in India (or may be world-wide) to know how many of them are willing to have two children or less only and if they want more why???


But the result will be a protest from muslims against any such census:-)

Re: # 207

tahmed,

... let me remind you, yet again, that you are an idiot and a shameless apologist for islam and other bad things ..... are you saying that mormons and the amish have dozens of kids because they are simply oversexed? ..... what about devout catholics - my next door neighbor had six kids beofore she ran out of space and stopped listening to the pope (or ran out of eggs) .......

.... your cross-country analysis is nonsense .... you have to look at the breeding rate of people of different superstitions in the same country .... mormons vs. protestants in the us, and hindoos vs. mohammedans in india ..... dost-mittar is right ... even here in america, number of children a moslem has is directly proportional to the number of times he prays daily ... before you jump up and hurt your arthritic knees, let me add that the same is true for jews .... on any day of the week you can see the gaggles of kids being herded by the black hatted descendents of abraham at the el-al terminal at jfk headed for the holy land ......

#203 Posted by hamidm2 on November 13, 2008 6:21:25 am

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who is flagging my posts and why ?
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somebody from your cousin's organization doesn't want non-muslims to know of their plans so early

HP #181 I agree that religion has sometimes been used as a pretext by some mullahs to oppose family planning measures. But, as the cross-country data that I have tried to direct DM sahib's attention to indicates, a number of muslim countries nevertheless have lower birth rates than India or other majority non-muslim countries. And no demographer worth his salt would take seriously what DM sahib and the Indian sources he dwells on claim - that it is Islam (or any other religion) that has a major (or even significant) impact on fertility rates.

This is an example of how ideologues (all stripes, hindu, muslim, christian) are part of the problem humanity faces as it tries to come to grips with serious issues like the demographic transition, the environment and so forth. Even well educated "elite" Indians like DM sahib are so willingly misled by such propaganda. All that the idiotlogues are interested in is "my god can whup your god"!!

#205 DM sahib: So, if the data doesnt support your claim, then it is not relevant. What is this if not the classic approach of an ideologue, whereby you stick to your preconceived notions and reject data that belies these notions?!!

In fact, it is on the basis of cross-country analysis spanning over a century, as I keep reminding you, that demographers have sought to identify the causes underlying high fertility rates and demographic transition!!

tahmed saheb:

I have more respect for your intelligence than to assume that you really think that comparison of fertility rates by religion across countries, for example between Christians of Nigeria and Muslims of Turkey, have any validity.

All I can do is translate a Punjabi expression: You can shake up a sleeping man out of sleep but not the one who is awake.

rabia, some of it may be 'Jihad' but most of it may simply be an outcome of how societies are structured, a byproduct of practices and beliefs - which may apparently have nothing directly relatd to waging a population jihad.

But the label may not be as important as you, I, and everyone else recognizing a major phenomenon, and its absolute importance for the future.

Is religion-based population control or sterilization fair - that will depend upon people's personal values. See, there is a real world out there. How people choose to respond to it is upto them.

But howsoever they respond, or choose not to respond at all, it is never helpful to close one's eyes and pretend the world deosn't exist.

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Ha Ha, hamdim, why would one think badly of your family?!

It's only on chowk that these things appear 'shocking' or 'uncomfortable' to some of us.

who is flagging my posts and why ?

Re: # 198

kaal mian,

..... you hindoos deserve to be extinct ... first you stood by idly when my grandpa gopinath dropped his potohari dhoti and went through ritual bloodletting to satisfy a bedouin deity ..... then you wrung your hands and cried foul when my other grandpa, ahmed shah abdali, ransacked delhi and agra ..... when are you guys going to wake up ? ... for more than a thousand years you have been bending over for invaders from the north and the west ...... now you are in danger of being run over by the progeny of these invaders who have been festering inside your society ..... get a spine !

p.s. i have a cousin who is the autor of many books and a karta dharta with the largest terrorist organization in pakistan (no, not al-qaed, it is the jamat-i-islami which also has its indian branch and controls simi from mansoora in pakistani punjab) ..... anyway, he is a big proponent of the demographic weapon of mass destruction which, according to him, will wipe out the hindoos in 163 years (i don't understand the math, it is too complicated) .... in case you start thinking badly about my family, i also have a cousin who runs a gambling den in quetta and runs liquor across the indian border and plans to run for the provincial assembly ..........

And I can add only this...


It is not just imagination or assumption, i know of at least one large gathering in north india (more than 5000 to 10000 muslims don't remember if it was for some festival or what)in which my brother went along with his muslim friend and clerics were telling people that only way to defeat Hindus is to produce more muslims and have as many children as possible. My brother always teases his muslim friend for this.

#198
since all of us on this board have recognized the problem, it's time for you to start talking about the next step. If a community within your country (not immigrants) is waging a demographic jihad, what is a good response? Religion based population control or sterilization seems pretty fair.

#194 Posted by hamidm2 on
ha ha:-), good question..


In the end nobody loses, imagin all people become muslims and have fun as per Islam:-) I mean if there are no hindus left who will be unhappy then:-)

So hamidm, while it may look bad imagining it now that everybody has become muslim and is living as per God's wish (written in Kuran:-)), it may not look that bad when everybody is actually muslim... (times between now and then will be more troublesome... and we have to suffer it as God ordained so:-))

It is muslim identity that wishes so, assuming that they are really muslims and not something beyond it!

hamidm bhai, hope this discussion is not about stopping anything, but about not deliberately blinding ourselves to its reality, or ignoring it altogether. :)

Shah bhai, it's hard to know what those reasons are. One reason we overlook (which may be true sometimes and places but not others) is the number of converts into Islam being higher than the number of converts out of Islam. Hindus in India have pretty high birth-rates too, so overall, differences with Hindus in India may be small.

But whether in India or in other countries, these ARE glacial changes. Imperceptible during any one year, but one should be able to tell the difference every 50 years. The same holds true for those whose numbers go down as well. If you see the relative numbers of Hindus in Bangladesh or Pakistan, or of Parsis or Jews, you will see alarming (for these groups) changes over 50 years. These things have significant impact over how society sees itself adn functions.

Mutliple marriages and such nonsense are only ways for some people to dramatize phenomena that is never dramatic at any one moment (leaving aside cataclysmic events). Most of the times change is like watching a tree grow.

Tracking that is boring, one can't 'see it.' But the tree - sometimes a giant one that will remove all others - is getting ready.

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See, the problem with numbers is that people see what they wish to see, but change occurs, mostly slowly.

Think about it. There are a billion people in India.

1% change means a difference of about 100000000 poeple. A difference of 0.1% means a difference about 10000000 people.

That's a LOT of difference. Now put it goether over the years, decade after decade you will see the tree growing.

Even a tree can sometimes take decades to grow. This one is bigger tree than them all. :)

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Hope someone will check those zeros! I think I got them right, but one can never be too confident of these things.