The Correct Turn

Re: # 120 You have point but we still have Bhangi business assigned to Christians. Caste has move power thant even religion. Scratch little and every pakistani is caste concious. One English lady of Daily news wrote article about and gave good descrition saying Caste is well and alive and doing well in Pakistan. In fact she was surprised. Arjun can get that article.

It is like color complexion. we all say it is wrong to be fair and wishing to have fair complexion is reactionary and unpatrotic. But after all that talk we revert back to same trhink as color concious is in our blood along with caste. Just like Ugliness is not bad or wrong but we do not try to compensate disadvantaged person. Not good looking are worst discriminated but can not do any thing. If woman good looking and car stops on motor way all Punjabi Mundas will stop and try to help but if woman is looking ugly and drivers says Saab let us stop and help, boss says shut up press on petrol paddle and go away fast. Our minds are totally screwed upI thionk.
Anyway good night. bye

nb #124 where were all these "friends" you say she has when she was being raped? have a heart. she may not bow to your favorite god, but the nun is a human being like you.

Is Kashmir key to Afghan peace?
Barack Obama says resolving the Indian-Pakistani dispute over Kashmir will be a goal of his presidency, ending eight years of silence on the issue.
By Mark Sappenfield | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
and Shahan Mufti | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor
from the November 21, 2008 edition

E-mail a friend Print this Letter to the Editor Republish ShareThisE-mail newsletters RSS Daily podcast | 11.20.08 Pat Murphy talks with
Monitor staff writer Mark Sappenfield about how the Kashmir conflict between India and Pakistan affects Afghanistan.

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NEW DELHI; and ISLAMABAD, PAKISTAN - As part of his push to find new solutions to the war in Afghanistan, President-elect Barack Obama is considering a new diplomatic push on Kashmir, reversing eight years of American silence on the issue.

Mr. Obama has argued that Pakistan will not fully commit to fighting the insurgency it shares with Afghanistan until it sheds historic insecurities toward India. Talks about Kashmir, the central point of contention between the two nuclear rivals, are among the "critical tasks for the next administration," Obama said in an interview last month with Time magazine.

It is a strategy that worries Indians, who suggest the Pakistani Army is blackmailing Obama to support its claims. Yet security analysts say the Afghan insurgency has roots in the power struggle between India and Pakistan and cannot be solved without a regional approach.

"It will be very hard to put Afghanistan on a long-term positive path without alleviating some of the Indo-Pakistan tensions," says Xenia Dormandy of the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs at Harvard University in Cambridge, Mass.

Such ideas would appear to fit well with the doctrines of Gen. David Petraeus, who oversaw a significant improvement in law and order in Iraq. He is now the commander of American forces in the entire region, which includes Afghanistan.

General Petraeus has been an open advocate of regional diplomacy as a key counterinsurgency tactic. On Oct. 15, he told a round table of Washington Post reporters that in seeking solutions to Afghanistan, "there may be opportunities with respect to India."

The goal would be to build a level of trust between India and Pakistan, freeing Pakistan from its historic fear of India, with which it has fought three wars. The surest way to do this, Obama has said, is to find a solution to Kashmir – the state split between each but claimed in full by both.

"We should try to resolve the Kashmir crisis so that [Pakistan] can stay focused – not on India, but on the situation with those militants," he told MSNBC on Oct. 31.

Obama went further in the Time interview, mentioning he has spoken with former President Bill Clinton about becoming a special envoy to the region – a comment that has been front-page news in India and Pakistan.

Nothing could be more damaging to American interests in the region, says Raja Mohan, a member of India's National Security Advisory Board. He claims Indo-Pakistan relations are better than they have ever been, citing the recent opening of trade between Pakistan - and-Indian-controlled Kashmir as something that would have been unthinkable in the past.

Moreover, he suggests India and Pakistan have behind the scenes made significant progress on the issue of Kashmir, to the point that the two nations have a tentative road map for how to resolve the crisis. It was scuppered only by the collapse of former Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf's regime in August.

Bush steered clear of Kashmir

The progress was partly the result of the Bush administration's decision to steer clear of Kashmir, says Mr. Mohan. Entering the fray now would only disrupt the delicate balance, making it appear as if the US was merely trying to placate Pakistan in return for its support in the war against terror.

In such a case, Mohan says, India might have a hard time winning concessions for a fair deal: "So long as the Pakistani Army thinks that the Americans are on their side, they're not going to deal with India."

Both Obama and his top South Asia adviser, Bruce Riedel, have spoken of the need to be discreet. In a 2007 teleconference for the journal Foreign Affairs, Mr. Riedel said: "I would urge the administration to seize the opportunity to quietly, but forcefully, push for a resolution there."

In the interview he called Kashmir "the itch that has driven Pakistan towards supporting terrorism for the last 20 years." Indeed, many experts say the enmity – for which Kashmir is the most potent symbol – has shaped security in the region, including Afghanistan.

Rivalry plays out in Afghanistan

For years, the mutual mistrust has led India and Pakistan to play their own version of the Great Game in Afghanistan. India has consistently been Afghanistan's main ally in the region. But Pakistan sees Afghanistan as its strategic backyard, which under no circumstances can be yielded to Indian influence.

Fears are stoked by the memories of 1971, when the Indian Army helped Bengalis secede from Pakistan to form Bangladesh. With Afghanistan historically claiming a significant chunk of Pakistan as its own, Pakistanis worry that an Indian-backed Afghanistan could dismember Pakistan further.

"Pakistan is the only country in South Asia that stands between India's complete hegemony in this region," says Fahmida Ashraf, an analyst at the Institute for Strategic Studies in Islamabad, a thinktank funded by the Pakistan government.

Repeatedly, Pakistan's Army has acted to prevent this from happening. It has done this by cultivating networks of militants as a proxy army. In Afghanistan, the Pakistan-backed mujahideen chased out the Soviet Union, India's ally. Then the Pakistan-backed Taliban took control of the country, preventing it from falling into the hands of pro-India Northern Alliance warlords.

This proxy war continues. India has invested $750 million and pledged $450 million more to the government of President Hamid Karzai, who is strongly pro-India. India is Afghanistan's largest trade partner. And it has taken the provocative step of opening consulates in two cities sitting on the border with Pakistan – Jalalabad and Kandahar.

Pakistan claims Indian intelligence agencies are using these consulates as bases, though it has never made this evidence public. Generally speaking, the allegations are that India is funding separatist militants in the Pakistani province of Balochistan.

"India wants to destabilize [Pakistan's tribal areas] and Balochistan," said Rahman Malik, a Pakistani government security adviser during a trip to Washington.

Analysts say this might be true, but only to a small degree. Militants "might be getting some support from India, but it's not anywhere near what the Pakistanis like to suggest," says Marvin Weinbaum, an analyst at the Middle East Institute in Washington.

Privately, a Pakistani diplomat who spoke on condition of anonymity agrees. India's involvement in the unrest along Pakistan's western front "might be no more than 5 percent of all the trouble out there."

But publicly, Pakistan "is basing its Afghan and Indian policy on its perception," says Mr. Weinbaum.

In July, militants struck the Indian Embassy in Kabul with a bomb blast that killed 41 people. American intelligence agencies have said they have evidence that Pakistan's intelligence agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) directorate, was involved.

"Even today, the Pakistani military sees India as the threat," says Ms. Dormandy, of Harvard. "Until that attitude changes, you're not going to see Pakistan step back from its historically strong use of militant assets to affect foreign policy."

There are signs that this attitude is beginning to change. Pakistan is now fighting many of the militants it once sheltered in Bajaur and Swat in northern Pakistan. Obama's intent would be to accelerate this process and send a clear message to Pakistan.

"Why do you want to keep on being bogged down with [India and Kashmir], particularly at a time where the biggest threat now is coming from the Afghan border?" he told Time. "I think there is a moment where potentially we could get their attention."

Kaalchakra: ever thought that perhaps the pious hindus of orrissa have told the nun that they will kill her if she opens her mouth to anyone?? or are pious hindus too pious for anything like that??

Look, one understands the need to believe that the lady was raped by a mob, paraded naked, and the police did nothing.

There are ten real human beings (not very good ones, no doubt) - a father-son pair among them, lying in jail ove those (probably true) allegations.

But we can't let that sitution continue for ever. At some point in time, the lady has to step and work with the police.

That is what we expect from every other woman in a similar, very tragic situation.

I do feel, all this will be a moot point, and the lady may be finally ready to cooperate with the police. If those in custody, or others are guilt, hang them.

Tahmed, I just read your other post. How can I not question what is happening here where the story changes every day? She is unwittingly aiding and abetting her rapists to escape by not participating in their ID parade. She now says a "Hindu man" saved her from being gang raped, but she doesn't know what he or the rapist look like. The priest who swore that saw her being gang raped seems to have disappeared. There is no forensic evidence against the rapist at all. If she had not been a nun, it would all have been over by now. It is her duty to help bring them to justice.

Re: # 120 Arjun's superiority complex gets massaged when he throws his bags in taxi and taximan opens door. Then he must be smoking state express and feeling he has put world on fire.And then he gives "little" to humilate man and must be feeling great. He has some "taxi" problem.
His bosses may not be happy for wasting companies resources and xroxing.
I was never big boss but people in place I worked use to abuse and misuse Xrox machine. People used to copy books and toss pages as they had little spot. So I told them you can do all cheating but you will be charged 1 Rs for 300 pages and put man at Xrox machine to do xroxing for them. The use dropped by 95% in one day. I got raise .
Basically never give anything free and subsidise bad behaviour and people left to themselves will steal.

Tahmed, I'm surprised you know who attacked her, since she can't identify them herself.(BTW,She is also now saying she was not paraded naked in the street) Don't tell me what I should or shouldn't think. As a woman, I feel she is letting the side down by not cooperating with the investigation and by making statements which she then contradicts herself. She is not alone and friendless as many rape victims are.

Re: # 120 I do not want to criticise food I have not eaten. But crepe etc is weak man or womens food and laced with over spiced curries which can kill you if you eat that for 60 years. There is no "stuff" in that. THat is reflected in waek management capacity of India compared to Pakistan. Some thing is race related but also we are made by what we eat, drink and breathe.As Romair said is write if you eat that stuff you can not have managerial capacity which is basic job and fire and fire and then go for power lunch or dinner and dominate people and make them paranoid and afraid. Roti and Dal has that punch that can not be same as rice and watery soup. That is reason Indian army has problem and theior military officers have no initiative to take over and rule. General carryout out orders is wrong to our mind. The generals should be like lions and tiger always angry and prawl and looking for opportunities and planning moves like wild tigers.
It is just general question so some body can answer who are having some training in law.
This indus treaty is for all time valid ? ( Some times tearties are time bound , like now there is no legal basis for Durand line as it has gone beyod its prescribed time) Can treaties are Perpetual ? Can Pakistan or India withdraw from it ?
Some body like YLH can answer but he is always lost in fog of 1947.

#119 excellent post, madani sahib. this madman is merely reflecting the mindset of the caste-ridden hindu society where "dignity of labor" is an unheard of concept.

Re: # 115
Arjun why you have hatred for hard working people driving taxies. They just provide transportation in style. They make more money in NY than than your governers and educated code coolies and in recession proof enviornment and and have not to pay taxes on each dollar they make in USA cities. I read American people have great regard for people who provide good service. In pakistan there is dignity of Labor. Just code coolie is not only job in world.
Good night.

akcheema:

Dasa is like a crepe. As hamidm described it, it has a crispy exterior (if well made) with a filling of potatoes, onions or any other stuffing. It is served with a lentil cum vegetable based soup called 'sambhar' and coconut chutney. I don't know how hamidm liked sambhar, it invariably has heeng in it.

BTW, the most variety (30 or so) of dosas I saw was on the menu of a restaurant in Dhaka. It had a choice of many non-vegetarian stuffings. In India, I have never seen dosa with a non-veg stuffing.

I also think that with the increasing tourist traffic from Indians in Lahore, anyone who opens the first dosa shop will be quite successful.

Cheema sahib: like i wrote to nb, she is a reasonable, well educated (a doctor) individual. So, i am merely reminding her of this in the hope that she will not stop questioning the veracity of the Second Nun's Tale (the way Chaucer had the nun singing out her story of Cecilia whom the roman thugs wanted to worship Jupiter the way the BJP thugs want the nun to worship the elephant man).

hamidm: you ate a couple of lousy dosas and presume to provide tips on how improve on the oily potatoes they have inside. bulleye happens to know the all the south indian restaurant owners, and they pay him Clinton-level speaking fees to talk about dosas. Wait till he wakes up and provides you with a written prediction of how the industry will evolve.

#114 Posted by shankar on November 22, 2008 5:01:12 am

HP has the midas touch...sorta....his cab has gold colored paint on the interior...

HP sain,

I wonder if you Sindhi Muslims take a page from your Sindhi Hindu counterparts. Those guys really have the Midas touch.