The Correct Turn

Re: # 143

tahmed mian,

.... if i were you i would not discuss rape, honor killings and other such things with the horrible hindoos ....... as pakis we don't have a very good record ourselves .... as a matter of fact, we are on really shaky ground when a member of the parliament defends honor killings on the floor of the house ........

..... i think you would be on much safer ground if you stuck with criticizing the lowly dosa which is hog swill compared to karahi gosht ....... in any case, like i said before, a nun being raped in orissa (wherever that is) is like a tree falling in the amazon jungle .........

NB, at the end of the day, we have to address the practical situation.

What should be, again, practically, done with people who have been lying in jail over her allegations of a mob having raped her?

What exacty should you, I, and tahmedji believe about her rape and about the police standing by doing nothing while she was raped?

kaalchakra sahib #140 the practical alternative is to do what one can to promote the rule of law and protection of the basic rights in society. religion be damned.

Kaalchakra, she is no longer saying (b) happened; the coppers were nowhere around apparently, and as I have already said, it was only one person, which was bad enough, a Hindu man saved her from being gangraped.
Some rapist is probably roaming free now and will reoffend with some other unfortunate woman because she couldn't identify him. I agree it's not her fault,it's his, but it will happen.

#139 nb: it is not unheard of for victims of sexual abuse to not wish to have anything more to say in the matter. even if the criminals and their henchmen are in custody and not running lose anymore - let alone members of India's second largest political party!!

blaming the victim for not speaking out is hardly a way to give vent to anger and frustration.

tahmedji, yes, we should not find fault in the lady, because that would not be right.

But should Indians:

(1) Let those who are in jail for raping her out of the jail?

(2) Accept and believe that she was raped by a mob, dragged through the streets, while the police watched and did nothing?

Those are real practical issues at some point in time. It's been a few months already. What should Indians who do not wish to find fault in the lady do now to addres those practical isues? What would you do specficaly in relation to those issues if you were in the position of these Indians?

What are the the practical alternatives?

I am not giving the criminals a pass at all. I am angry and frustrated that she is not participating. Perhaps you can't understand this. I compare her with Bhanwari Devi, who only had her husband and still kept fighting. Of course everyone is different, maybe she just can't do it, but then the rapist will get away. Is that a good thing?
And don't ask where the Pope was when she was raped. Having friends doesn't mean bad things will never happen to you. I had a break-in some years ago despite having friends. I used to get groped in India despite having friends.People who are raped, assaulted, murdered all usually do have friends. Having friends means someone will support you after everything is over.
If she doesn't participate, and can't participate, the Church needs to stop blaming the Government of Orissa for not doing anything.

Kaal, let tahmed get the answer from his favorite bloodstained coat hanger. :-)

#136 kaalchakra sahib: indians should just stop trying to find fault in the nun. if you cant bring yourself to express sympathy for her or disgust at the perpetrators and their enablers, dont say anything at all.

that is all i am "asking of the indians" (specifically you and nb).

ok, tahmedji, you tell us what Indians should do.

(1) Let those who are in jail for raping her out of the jail?

(2) Accept and believe that she was raped by a mob, dragged through the streets, while the police watched and did nothing?

kaalchakra sahib: please dont give me these lawyer-like arguments. these are your fellow indian citizens, for God's sake. not even evil Pakis.

#131 nb: where was the pope when this woman was raped? you think those pope stands with a stick next to every christian in india? and you think BJP cant reach her if she is out of orrissa, or even out of india??

for some of your rabid countrymen on chowk i wouldnt ask them to have a heart. the reason i am asking you is because i cant believe someone as sensible and well educated like you can have such a distorted view whereby you blame the victim and give the criminals a pass!!

tahmedji, the lady has the support of the local archbishop, who lives in Orissa. As do many many other Christians. We have no evidene that Hindus have told her that they will kil her if she 'opened her mouth.' As a matter of fact, she does so regularly.

Again, rightly or wrongly, people have suffered (may be they deserved that) from her allegations. Many people are in jail, waiting for her to at least cooperate with the police.

That is what we expect from every human woman who is raped (may be, after a couple of months, if needed). People's patience is running thin, even if they are totally friendly and understanding toward her.

We surely don't want people to kept in jail indefinitely over this issue, will we? Tomorrow if a Hindu woman and made allegatons that a mob of Christians raped her, we will need SOME evidence that that really happened. It would be reasonble to expect her to at least work with the police.

Otherwise, we are promoting complete anarchy.

#129 well said again, madani sahib. In the US, "bhangis" eat at the same table as Hamidm sahib, and he doesnt even know that.

Tahmed, are you saying the Church does not stand by its own? Even as a Hindu, I resent that. They have always supported her. The Pope is backing her, who more can you need? Think of all the rape victims who are poor, alone and friendless.
Don't tell me to have a heart. I knew when I wrote that thread that some Pakistani would accuse me of being on the side of her attacker/s. I just didn't think it would be you.
And she is not going back to Orissa anyway, so she is not at risk from anyone in Orissa. I just realised you may not know this, but she is from Kerala.

Re: # 112

shankar mian,

..... i have already issued that fatwa against faruk mian ..... indian moslems are perhaps the most pathetic moslems of all - there are a few good 'house moslems', but most of them are paki fifth columnists who are plotting to overthrow the hindoo regime in india and establish the khilafat .........