The Future of Indo Pak Conflict

no my dear
Agha Amin

To the author: did you recently talk to an Indian news channel? I thought I heard your name mentioned.

Pakistan was divided up once. It need to be cut up more. The NWFP is gone. Karachi is on the way out. Punjab should be renamed pakistan. Then the conflict will end.

That is the essence of two nation theory on which pakistan was founded. It is an amoebic theory, it seeks out the other to kill and maim, which will lead to partition.

That is what happened with bangladesh, now it is happening in nwfp.

Starting in karachi.

Then only the global problem, it is not terrorism, it is pakistan, will be solved.

Re: # 75
Rah...
"Mumbai vs Karachi: is the blame game ever going to end?"
There is no game in it.....
Pakistan is getting exposed day by day....

Mumbai vs Karachi: is the blame game ever going to end?
by Teeth Maestro
Before I begin this rant, I must out-rightly condemn all terrorism activities, be it from a ruthless terrorist in India or even in Pakistan wherever there is loss of life it must be condemned regardless of who is suffering The Mumbai attacks were shocking for everyone, for the three days the killers were on rampage killing over 200 innocent lives everyone specially in India was shaken to the core. While we in Pakistan sat watching in earnest prayer hoping that this bad dream would simply go away, we too are sick an tired of these terrorist and truly do not wish this plague to get worse
What followed soon after the dust settled in Mumbai, was an all out aggressive propaganda waged by the Indian Government against Pakistan trying its best to pin the blame on Pakistan. Generally the accusations were based on some scanty evidence that the bureaucracy could muster up in the short few hours, it was for us, as if the entire book of conspiracies were suddenly cracked open by RAW and brought into quick production simply to exploit this disaster for its own gains, all in an attempt to bring Pakistan on its knees and into Indian submission [being a patriot Pakistani, I assure you that will not happen, Indians would agree vice versa if they were in the same spot] To believe that this highly professional group of terrorist could conduct a fully coordinated attack while leaving a blatant bread crumb trail seems too dubious. A team of terrorists hitchhiking a boat ride from Karachi to land smack in the middle of Mumbai and take the city om a target shooting spree, seems all too James Bond’ish. To have a confession by a person allegedly a Pakistani, is definitely a poorly enacted video, as the accent completely defies all dialects spoken anywhere in Pakistan.

But the most funniest is the tale of the Versace dressed terrorist caught on a shooting spree was in my opinion the biggest blunder that the Indians failed to throughly analyze before the finger pointing session started. The so-called Amir Qsaba [if we are to genuinely believe the Indian government to be honest in providing us with the 'right' name] would wear an orange armband on his ‘right hand’ while going on a public killing rampage, all Indians must know that this saffron band called Kalava - is worn while performing Hindu rituals like Yajna or Puja. It is tied by a priest on the wrists of all the people attending the prayer ceremony. Kalava is tied on right hand of males and unmarried females, and on left hand of married females. Somehow the evidence is weak, simply to take accept these allegations on a scouts honor given by the Indian government is not going to cut it.
Many Indian’s might hurriedly defend my allegation to say Amir Azam Qsaba used this to distract and throw off the investigators while he was being photographed at the train station, I sincerely doubt the significance of such a small token in this larger plan, if he was so convinced to pin the blame on Pakistan, he could have very well worn a ‘Green and White’ t-shirt with Pakistan plastered right across the front, carried a Muslim skull cap and a foot long beard would have been more too the liking of RAW. So short of all that this saffron band does signify that he was a Hindu and not Amir Azam Qasba etc etc
The above rant was a light hearted poke at what the Indian government bases its entire set of publicly revealed allegations on Pakistan, rest is still under investigation [read is still being cooked up]. I truly believe India has enough extremists within its borders that outside elements don’t need to physically walk in and take them out, likewise Pakistan too has enough problems within its own borders that picking a battle with India is not a wise decision to make but even if the ISI or the terrorists were so committed to hiting out at India then the apparent bread crumb trail is all to suspicious. Do we believe everything the Indian government chooses to say, I dare say NEVER. In that same light would I believe every word my Pakistani government chooses to hit out at India, I also am first to say NO. Its all a game of propaganda played by both sides over the past 60 odd years but lets not have the people fall for this mesmerizing trap so quickly.
The nail clincher by India recently has been to ask the Pakistani government to hand over a number of terrorists have been residing in Pakistan, firstly even if we ever decide to play roll over and play dead, I would first like to try them in our courts before even thinking of handing our people to India. That said, while the Indians are busy contemplating on the Pakistani terrorists please have a look at this list recently compiled by Pakistan to hand over to the Indian, would you please cough up these 35 terrorists living in India in this international exchange program, after all they too are terrorists who killed hundreds of Pakistanis and are now conveniently living in India. A tit-for-tat reaction, sadly yes, We could do this endlessly but if wisdom were to prevail we both could take a gentle step back seize the baseless propaganda, fix our own internal threats and then reinforce our borders to prevent the other side from creating yet another havoc
List of Suspected Terrorists Residing in India
1. Ajay Verma, a Karnatika resident and directly involved in bomb blast at Sialkot in which 7 people were killed,
2. Manoj Shastri alias Javed Khan, resident of Mumbai, wanted for killing of 14 Namazees at a Karachi Mosque,
3. Raju Mukherjee, resident of Calcutta, wanted for bomb blast in Lahore in which 9 people were killed,
4. Mr. Bal Thackeray, resident of Bombay, Chief of Shiv Sena, wanted for organizing at least three major massacres in Pakistan in which some 33 people were killed and a highly active in organizing ethnic and sectarian clashes in different parts of Pakistan,
5. Vivek Khattri alias Kaala Pathaan, resident of Maharashtra, wanted for at least four bomb blasts in which over seventeen people were killed,
6. Ashok Vidyarthi alias Aslam resident of Ajmair Sharif, wanted for sniper shooting at an Imam baargah in Karachi, killing some 14 Shias,
7. Rajan Nikhalje alias Chhota Rajan, wanted for a number of terrorist attacks in different cities of Pakistan including a bomb blast in Sabzi Mandi Islamabad and a bomb blast in Quetta. Chhota Rajan is now launching terrorist operations in Pakistan from Indian Missions in Kandahar and Jalalabad (Afghanistan) and is head of RAW’s organized Crimes Wing or Special Operations Division (SOD), he is also wanted for killing of Chinese Engineers in Baluchistan and organizing the murder of some Chinese workers near Peshawar
8. Asotosh Srivastava alias Maulvi Nazir alias Mulla, resident of Alahabad, wanted for firing on an imambargah in which 9 people were killed,
9. Ashok Dube alias Shah Jee, resident of Gandhi Nagar (New Delhi), wanted for killing some 11 Namazees in a Lahore Mosque,
10. Sanjive Joshi, resident of Bombay, wanted for comprehensive assistance in terror attack on a Christian Mission School near Murree,
11. Ramparkash alias Ranu alias Ali, resident of Hyderabad Daccan, wanted for terror attack on a Christian Hospital in Taxila (he is also identified as a graduate of Hindutva Brotherhood’s terror training camp, located near Sarojini Nagar),
12. Ramesh Verma, resident of Pune, wanted for terror attack in Sheikhupura, killing 7 innocent citizens
13. Bihari Mishra, wanted for organizing a number of terror attacks in Pakistan through his terrorists of Hindutva Brotherhood’s terrorist school,
14. Manoj Kulkarni, resident of Colkata, wanted for terror attack in Attok , killing 17,
15. Venkatash Raghwan, resident of Mahablaishwar, wanted for terror attacks in Rawalpindi, killing some 9 people,
16. Ajit Sahay, a former RAW Deputy Director, now attached with Chotta Rajan, wanted for organizing attack in Hyderabad (Sindh),
17. Ashok Vohra alias Nepali, wanted for printing fake Pakistani currency and spreading it worldwide, particularly in Nepal, UAE and UK and also organizing a terror attack in Gujranwala in which 8 people were killed,
18. Vijay Kapali alias Guru, resident of Maharashtra, wanted for terror attack on an AJK village, killing 13 of a family. He is also working for RAW’s cross border operations wing,
19. Vivek Santoshi, resident of Calcutta, wanted for organizing terror attack on some US citizens and killing them in Karachi,
20. Mohandas Sharma, resident of Patna, wanted for planning and executing terror attacks on foreign nationals in Pakistan at least on three occasions,
21. Ramgopal Soorati, resident of Soorat, wanted for terror attack in Jhelum, killing 9 through a bus blast on the highway,
22. Rakesh alias Kalia, resident of Bombay, wanted for terror attack in Kasur,
23. Parkash Santoshi, resident of Lucknow, wanted for terror attack on a religious gathering in Lahore,
24. Aman Verma alias Pappoo alias Gulloo, resident of Aagra, wanted for terror attack in Peshawar in which 11 people were killed,
25. Mohinder Parkash alias Yasin Khan alias Riaz Chitta, resident of Lucknow, wanted for organizing terror attacks in different parts of Sindh,
26. Ashish Jaithlee alias Shaikh alias Osama, resident of Bombay downtown, wanted for providing explosives to the terrorists who killed French engineers in Karachi and also to those who carried out Marriot bombing, these explosives were provided through Pak-Afghan border
27. Manohar Laal alias Peer Jee alias Ubu Khalid, resident of Gohaati, wanted for providing explosive devices for attack on Foreign Mission building in Karachi,
28. Ramnarayan alias Mufti, resident of New Delhi, wanted for providing huge consignments of automatic weapons to activists of banned Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and banned Lashkar-e-Tayyaba
29. Arun Shetty, resident of Bombay and wanted for bulk infiltration of explosives, arms and ammunition into Pakistan,
30. Nikhanj Laal, resident of Hurryana, wanted for terror attack in border city of Narowaal, killing seven people,
31. Sunil Verma alias Httyara, resident of Maharashtra, wanted for organizing terror attack on Daily the Nation’s office n Karachi,
32. Ashish Chowan, resident of New Delhi, wanted for supply of arms and assisting latest terror attacks in Quetta. Ashish is presently reported to be present in Indian Consulate of Kandahaar (Afghanistan) ,
33. Babloo Srivastva of Chhota Rajan gang for providing highly sophisticated weapons to a sectarian outfit in Pakistan and assisting in missile attacks on UN offices in Islamabad in year 2000,
34. Suresh, alias Aamir alias Akbar Khan wanted for providing weapons and explosives to militants in Wana and North Waziristan through Afghanistan and
35. Abu Bakkar, wanted for a number of terror attack in different parts of the country and now living in India with a new identification under the blessings of Indian spy agency RAW
Credit: The Daily Mail & Deadpanthoughts

The conflict will continue unless :--
India pulls so far ahead of Pakistan - it might happen given the delusion among the Pakistani elite

Re: # 65

this fellow (Ram Guha) has again started writing shit!!!!
I think, we need some fatwa to cut his fingers....
there are couple of stupids (Girish Karnad and Ram Guha are most prominant) and scums (moslas) Banglore provided shelter to .....
We need to clean up Bangalore...

The country loses major wars under the dicatorship of army generals yet the people enjoy having a fauji at the helm(remember the celebrations when the funtoosh Commando staged a coup?).The elected civilian President cannot take any decisions without a nod from the army. The Head of State does not know that his general is planning an audacious attack to swallow a piece of the neghbour's territory. The world calls it a failed state although to most Pakistani Chowkies that is nonsense .
A strange country, all told. 50-60 years of warfare? The Pakistani generals will preside over the destruction of the country within the next 5-10 years

Re: # 68

The case of teh arrested pakistanis blows the myth that poverty is teh source of terror. The info reveals that the jihadi leader gave this guys parent 1.5 lack rupees in return for he being recruited on the jihadic mission.

It is the availability of money, that is the root of terror.

It is the money collected in the mosques that funds terror and each and every paki is complicit in the terror.

Re: # 69
Extremist Zanani, which 'dall' or 'lashkar' do you belong to? Just curious.

Future of Indo/Pak conflict is simple....

Both of these stupid countries should fix a time and should bomb each other same time.....it would be much easier than to kill each other piece by piece.......

Both are nuclear powers with poor and hungry citizens with chaos.....so, the only solution is to use their nuclear powers......

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/07/mumbai-terrorism-india-pakistan

R evealed: home of Mumbai's gunman in Pakistan village

Since the terrorist attacks in Mumbai 10 days ago, speculation has been rife about the birthplace of the lone surviving gunman, Ajmal Amir Kasab. India and Pakistan have clashed over reports that he came from the Punjab. Saeed Shah, after spending days travelling throughout the region, tracked down the killer's home - and his grandfather - and found conclusive proof of his identity

* Saeed Shah
* The Observer, Sunday December 7 2008
* Article history

The little house was certainly that of a poor family, with a courtyard to one side and a small cart propped up in one corner. The old man and middle-aged woman who answered the door were not the owners. No, they insisted, the owners were away.


'They've gone to a wedding,' said the old man, identifying himself as Sultan. He was, he said, Amir's father-in-law. So, that would make him Ajmal's grandfather? At last, it seemed, this was the right place.


It had taken days to get to Faridkot, a small, dirt-poor village in Pakistan's Punjab province. More than a week after the arrest of the only Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorist taken alive during the terror strike on Mumbai, so little was still known about him. His name, for instance. Was he Mohammed Amin Kasab, Azam Amir Kasav? Or was he Mohammed Ajmal Amir? The name Kasai in fact means he would hail from a butcher community - that would be his caste. But it was recorded as Kasav, then later Kasab. The discrepancies reportedly stemmed from the fact that the Mumbai police officers who first questioned him were Marathi speakers and unable to communicate with the south Punjab resident in anything other than Hindi patois.


And where exactly was he from? Faridkot is what he told his interrogators, but this is a common village name. There were four candidates in the Punjab region.


Days of trying to establish which was the right one had led to a Faridkot near the Indian border, outside a town called Depalpur. The nearest city was Okara. It seemed to fit. And it was at this Faridkot that Ajmal's father was believed to live.


Initially villagers were unhelpful. No, said those approached, there was no one known here of that name. Even shown a photograph of Ajmal taken during the Mumbai siege, all swore they did not recognise him. The mayor was clear. 'There is a man who came to see me called Amir Kasab, who was worried,' said Ghulam Mustafa Wattoo. 'He told me that the Ajmal on the news was not his boy. That boy's gone away to work. There's no extremist network here.'


Was this another dead end?


As the villagers were questioned, the confusions appeared to multiply. Finally the name Mohammed Ajmal Amir, son of Mohammed Amir Iman, who ran a food stall, emerged.

At other Faridkots, including one near the town of Khanewal, villagers had been friendly and helpful, proffering tea as they shook their heads. 'No. Not from here,' they said. For a while, it appeared that this Faridkot would also prove a wasted journey. The mayor said there had been no local police investigation, suggesting that the authorities did not view this place with suspicion. But, over time, inconsistencies in the villagers' accounts heightened suspicion that this was the place. 'He [Amir] has lived here for a few years,' said one villager, Mohammad Taj. 'He has three sons and three daughters.'


Noor Ahmed, a local farmer, said: 'Amir had a stall he pushed around, sometimes here, sometimes elsewhere. He was a meek man, he wasn't particularly religious. He just made ends meet and didn't quarrel with anyone.'


Still the picture was confusing. While sometimes confirming that Amir did live in the village, and had a son called Ajmal, on other occasions locals claimed to know nothing.


Finally one villager confirmed what was going on: 'You're being given misinformation. We've all known from the first day [of the news of the terrorist attack] that it was him, Ajmal Amir Kasab. His mother started crying when she saw his picture on the television.'


Attempts to meet Amir, the father, however, were not to be successful. Villagers eventually told us that he and his wife, Noor, had been mysteriously spirited away earlier in the week.

'Ajmal used to go to Lahore for work, as a labourer,' continued the villager who feared being named. 'He's been away for maybe four years. When he came back once a year, he would say things like, "We are going to free Kashmir."'


Wresting the whole of Kashmir from Indian rule is Lashkar-e-Taiba's aim. Ajmal had little education, according to locals. But it is still unclear whether he was radicalised in the village or once he had left to work elsewhere.


It is said that from the age of 13 he was shuttled between his parents' house and that of a brother in Lahore. If he did indeed speak fluent English, as claimed in Indian press reports, he would have had to have learnt that after he left the village.


But the villager who turned whistleblower said that local religious clerics were brainwashing youths in the area and that Lashkar-e-Taiba's founder, Hafiz Sayeed, had visited nearby Depalpur, where there were 'hundreds' of supporters. There was a Lashkar-e-Taiba office in Depalpur, but that had been hurriedly closed in the past few days. The Lashkar-e-Taiba newspaper is distributed in Depalpur and Faridkot. Depalpur lies in the south of Punjab province, an economically backward area long known for producing jihadists.


Shown a picture of Ajmal, the villager confirmed that he was the former Faridkot resident, who had last visited the village a couple of months ago at the last festival of Eid.


Some locals have claimed that this Faridkot, and another poor village nearby called Tara Singh, are a recruitment hotbed for Lashkar-e-Taiba, the militant group accused of carrying out the Mumbai attack. On the side of a building, just outside Faridkot, is graffiti that says: 'Go for jihad. Go for jihad. Markaz Dawat ul-Irshad.' MDI is the parent organisation of Lashkar-e-Taiba. In Depalpur, a banner on the side of the main street asks people to devote goatskins to Jamaat ud Dawa, another MDI offshoot.


Tara Singh is home to a radical madrasa - Islamic school - and there is another hardline seminary in nearby Depalpur. The nazim (mayor) of Tara Singh, Rao Zaeem Haider, said: 'There is a religious trend here. Some go for jihad, but not too many.'


Some reports emerging in India suggest that Ajmal may have joined Lashkar -e-Taiba less because of his Islamist convictions but in the hope that the jihad training he would receive would help to further the life of crime upon which he had already embarked. But once inside Lashkar's base, his world-view began to change.


Here, films on India's purported atrocities in Kashmir and heated lectures by fiery preachers led him to believe in Lashkar's cause. It has also been said that, when he was chosen for the Lashkar basic combat training, he performed so well that he was among a group of 32 men selected to undergo advanced training at a camp near Manshera, a course the organisation calls the Duara Khaas.


And finally, it seems, he was among an even smaller group selected for specialised commando and navigation training given to the fedayeen unit selected to attack Mumbai.

The authorities may now attempt to deny that Ajmal's parents live in Faridkot, but, according to some locals, they have been there for some 20 years. But by the end of our visit, a crucial piece of evidence had been gained. The Observer has managed to obtain an electoral roll for Faridkot, which falls under union council number 5, tehsil (area) Depalpur, district Okara. The list of 478 registered voters shows a 'Mohammed Amir', married to Noor Elahi, living in Faridkot. Amir's national identity card number is given as 3530121767339, and Noor's is 3530157035058.


That appears to be the last piece of the jigsaw. A man called Amir and his wife, Noor, do live in Faridkot, official records show. They have a son called Ajmal.


Following our last visit to Faridkot, the mayor, Wattoo, announced via the loudspeaker at the mosque that no one was to speak to any outsiders. By yesterday, Pakistani intelligence officials had descended in force on Faridkot. Locals, speaking by telephone, said a Pakistani TV crew and an American journalist had been roughed up and run out of town. It appeared that the backlash had begun.

The key numbers

10 The number of people India says took part in the attack on Mumbai

1 Survivor from the militant group

2 Indians arrested on Friday in Calcutta suspected of handling phone cards used by the Mumbai attackers. Sources say later that one may be an undercover agent

163 Amended death toll after the massacre. At one point it was believed to have been as high as 195

204 Number of boats India will deploy to prevent future attacks

well, we all hope for the best to happen for both the countries but in next 3 years definitely there is going to be a huge change in the map geographically in the area of pakistan and india. Ab uoont kis karwat bethe ga ye to waqt hi bataey ga...

Perhaps of interest:

US moves to declare former Pakistani officers international terrorists
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2008/12/us_moves_to_declare.p hp

here an indian, Ramachandra guha, explains the growing divide:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122852093316784075.html

here are the israelis themslves denying any torture:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1227702405844&pagename= JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull