World Bank Help For Pakistan’s Education – A Poisoned Chalice?

Re: # 23
MAJ...
I think Islamic banking concept might work in Pakistan very well...but who will invest money, where you will not get any value addition in terms of currency?
The way inflation is rising, I will like to take interest free loan of Pakistani currency, equivalent to US$1Bn from Pakistani banks and will return that amount after 300 years....meanwhile the value of Pakistani currency will devalue so much that...
Hey pakis, I want to take loan based on Islamic Banking...

it is still implicitly interest.....

the islamists think they have invented something new...this form of profit sharing has been around for a long time.

Thre is nore free lunch - they think they have free lunch available.

If the ROI is not satisfactory the guy who stumped the money gets agitated and starts interfereing int ehday-to-day affairs - to avoid all of this complcaition you have the ntion of saying I donot care how you doit (its the regulators headache) but I want x% retunr for my $100. Simple. I donot wnat to know about your management problems, your raw materials prblems. It is not my problem - you deal with it.

Free Lunches are just in the imagination. Interest free; profit sharing etc are old hats and are very basic sructures and require a non-specialist to start interfereing where he has no expertese. This leads to a lot more problems. If the guy canot give the return expected, he is in trouble.

Cloud cuckoo land and interest free world go hand in hand.

Heck if there is really some like a free lunch and interest free let me know, and I will start believing in

(a) peter pan
(b) perpetual motion machines
(c) indian rope trick
(d) Elvis is alive and kicking
(e) etc etc

Dash babu,

It does not have to be like that. It could be linked to profit sharing or actual return on capital, if my understanding is correct. To take an example:

Debt: USD 100
Equity: USD 100
Total Capital: USD 200

Total earnings: USD 40
ROI: 20%

So the debt holder gets USD 100 + 20% of 100 = 120.

But let's suppose there is no profit then debt holder gets only USD 100.

The above transactions would be considered interest free.

Regards

interest-free is an oxymoron.

you agree on the return before hand - so you give the guy $100, and say you need to return $125 to me by the end of the month.

There is not notion of interest explicitly but it is there implicitly.

Even if you say I want x% of your profit when you return the $100 to me, its still bloody interest - how different is it from it or paying dividends.

If the islamists think there is a free lunch available, and that this "interest free thing" is really interet free they are living in cloud cuckoo land.

hang on - they might have just invented a " perpertual motion machine" and I have witnessed the Indian Rope trick!

Maju Bhai

Almost every bank in Pakistan has now seperate section of Islamic Riba-Free Banking .Riba means interest.Few years ago, there were only 26 banks having this facility now 500+ banks offering this and no. is increasing day by day
Regards

Interest free banking though appears noble is not practicable.Main source of bank income is interest as money is their raw material.Supposing in an islamic country this raw material (money)is available free then also they can not distribute it free as they have to recover admin costs.their system works just as other non islamic banks ,only thing is they call interest "profit percentage" Besides this most common arabic people in gulf countries want interest on their money but loans they want interest free.

Interest free banking though appears noble is not practicable.Main source of bank income is interest as money is their raw material.Supposing in an islamic country this raw material (money)is available free then also they can not distribute it free as they have to recover admin costs.their system works just as other non islamic banks ,only thing is they call interest "profit percentage" Besides this most common arabic people in gulf countries want interest on their money but loans they want interest free.

Re: # 19
Krishna...
"The amazing thing is that humanity is such a stubborn thing that it refuses to die in people, even under the yoke of Islam - like in this journalist here. That's why I feel that there is hope after all...."
Even staying long under islamic system....
Most of the muslas commit islamic crime, when they are ganged up in conductive environment like mosques, madressahs...separate them from these institutes or islamic environment, they will behave like ordinary human being...


nobody, on this planet, is born as musla...it is the environment, specialy the parents, make him/her musla.....

Tahir mian/Dawa behen,

It would be a good idea if Pakistan could become a truly Islamic state and implement ideas such as riba free banking. If Pakistan can prove to be a success as an Islamic state, it could act as a new paradigm for other states, both Muslim and non-Muslim.

Regards

I am not here to give some religious lecture

Nor i am criticizing anyone but

quote only 1 hadees of Prophet(pbuh)

from Bukhari , the most authentic hadees book

that is

"" There are 73 levels of Interests and lowest level is equal to have Adultery with your own Real Mother """



Present Credit Card Crunch is in front of us


Whole Europe and US economy is sinking

UK economy is on death bed

May be UK going to IMF


May Allah save us from Interet


Anyways, I appreciate some good points of Dr.Hood

One question to Chor Government of PPP

You looters are going 50 members trip for 3 days in Switzerland in precious hotels stay with your wives


Cannt you give this money to HEC wo has clsoe funds to local universities for Research and for foreign students completing thier PhDs

Re: # 5

"How does the interest-free loan work?"

It works amongst Muslims, i.e. those who believe in not multiplying away wealth through 'interest': just the way Allah ordered!

But you're a little devil who has named himself Allah; a reincarnation of the old abusive ChowQ nick you used earlier. Right?

Re: # 17

nkg:

My points:

a. it is the student body that makes difference, over faculties and facilities (not that these two are irrelvant). We have plenty of proof from IITs in India, and in private colleges (not just Ivy leagues) in the U.S. Such a student body produces people you named and also includes Obama, and even those who dropped out Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. Ability to innovate and apply innovation to reinvent society and system are essential. This ability is present in students and not in as much as in the faculty and facility. More wealth in recent boom is created and transformation is cause by brilliant students collaborating with each other in their dorms, than by faculty classes or labs. Creating places where such intelligent groups can be together is key. Why 5 IITs were enough when India population was less than 300 million, and they are enough also? Creating more centers of merit and execellence where bright and brillant students can meet and collarborate with each is the key according to me. India needs to keep meritcocracy (hence I am not in favor of reservations) as the principle of selection. There is such a talent even in villages and all communities and income group.

I have faith and belief in inherent desire to succeed and accomplish, even if it is begging. That is why there was Salim and there was Jamal in Slumdogs Millionaire.

#18 Posted by _arjun54

And we wonder how this HP, tahmed, masadi, urstruly, mantolives etc. represent the "educated" class of Pakiland. Now just think about the uneducated masses.

Can you imagine a Indian textbook that would say that Islam is "inherently iniquitous"? The Arundhati Roys of this world would run to Pakistan to hold protest rallies against India (as they have done so many times before).

The amazing thing is that humanity is such a stubborn thing that it refuses to die in people, even under the yoke of Islam - like in this journalist here. That's why I feel that there is hope after all.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Re: # 15
Anil...
Primary education and higher research is not connected at all. If you can send 40/50 of your population to decent schools and may be 5-10% to graduate programs, that is enough to create good research base. During british period, we have got scientists like J C Bose, Meghnad Saha, Satyen Bose, P C Roy, C V Raman, H G Khorana...Do you feel literacy rate was very high that time? What Dr. Hoodbhoy is talking about Paki higher education, that can be said about Primary education in India. Just to enhance statistics drastically, the way state Govt.s are lowering the standard of primary education, it will create Pakistan like situation some day. Govt. is just ensuring low quality education for poors (like that of MAD-RAISE-A system in Pakiland)....

One must understand that institutions like IMF and world bank have twoobjectives to their business:

1. Their first and foremost objective is to make sure that all the wealth generated in third world pumps through the west and specially US. Since the economies of these countries are interest based they themselves cannot generate wealth. All they can generate is the money that is no existent. A classical example to support this fact is the recent collapse of economies in the western world. 100s of trillions of dollars have disappeared in thin air as if they never existed - well they never existed, be certain of that. Just like a patient of blood cancer needs a transfusion from a healthy person, western economies require "fresh blood" to inject in their veins. This blood comes from the so called third world - the universes hub of creation of wealth. IMF and WB make sure that traffic of this blood continues only one way.

2. The bottom line is that IMF and WB are businesses in their essence, not charities or philonthropy for rich (not wealthy) western nations. The reason the only invest in higher education is that that Return on Investment (ROI)is astronomically high in this investment rather than in investing in basic education. It also provides them with a cheap source of talented brain. Brain drain is necessary for their societies to survive. Most of the werstern countris have their populations groth in negetive.

IMF and WB are thus instruments of oppression and slavery. In 60 years of their existence they can not show one single country that has positively benefited from them - not a single one.