Afghanistan Strategic Choices for USA and Regional Actors

Pakistani Leader of the House

Re: # 70
muqa...
before 1930, the concept of country exclusively for muslas was also something not people thought of...muslas are capable of carryng out any sort of nasty things...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5621482.ece

Pavo...
Is the following piece of crap your brainchild?
http://www.countercurrents.org/amin260907.htm

There is also a certain irony in the activism of those liberals who protest the bombing of schools in Swat but never before have been troubled enough to campaign against the fact that thousands of school buildings lie empty around the country in the absence of teachers or enforcement of a decent curriculum, some right outside the cities we live in. Most have also accepted gender-segregated schooling as a necessary ‘cultural’ requirement.

In other words, it is only when extreme action is taken that our social conscience awakens temporarily only to succumb to an apolitical death. Meanwhile, we pretend that this extremism has taken place in what was otherwise normalcy. Also ignored is the fact that such social change emerges within a broader political environment that either sanctions or prohibits the momentum of such movements.

from dawn of today///////////////////////

The educated pakis the ilks of ylh, urstruly etc never cared to talk about the situation before swat.

the indian possible deployment has been covered in detail on the blog :--

http://low-intensity-conflict-review.blogspot.com/2009/01/how-indo-pak-co nflict-will-be-fought-in.html
Agha Amin

the indian possible deployment has been covered in detail on the blog :--

http://low-intensity-conflict-review.blogspot.com/2009/01/how-indo-pak-co nflict-will-be-fought-in.html
Agha Amin

the indian possible deployment has been covered in detail on the blog :--

http://low-intensity-conflict-review.blogspot.com/2009/01/how-indo-pak-co nflict-will-be-fought-in.html
Agha Amin

the indian possible deployment has been covered in detail on the blog :--

http://low-intensity-conflict-review.blogspot.com/2009/01/how-indo-pak-co nflict-will-be-fought-in.html
Agha Amin

Urchin underscore 31,

One day you're life will be filtered quite suddenly, just like your venomous posts here at ChowQ.

Learn life's good lessons quickly before you....

yeah yeah...delusionistanis think an indo-israeli radar(yes, RADAR) in kyrgystan is being used to jam the communication of allah's army...

and WTF is does sophisticated communication equipment mean anyway? frequency hopping radios? ooooh...how advanced...

Actually Major Amin is correct: RAW (or the Russians? Iranians? Somebody) is suppyling the Pakistani Taliban with some extremely sophisticated communications equipment and other military hardware. I was talking to a friend of mine in the Army and he was adamant on this point; had served in NWFP and had seen it himself.

Major Amin: I've heard that the Indians, in principle, have offered the US several divisions for use in Afghanistan and that the Indian Defense Attache who was killed in Kabul was instrumental in these discussions with his Afghan counterparts. Any details on this would be appreciated.

Regards (offering an olive branch here....)

Re: # 18
arjun....
"that's straight from the same place ijaz gul got his indo-israeli radar in kyrgystan being used to jam the communications of allah's army..."

means allah's message is not reaching to Pakis properly due to this indo-israeli radar (or jammer)!!! but allah/halla's messages can only be demodulated and decoded by mo, the 7th century barbarian....had the pakis acquired instrument/capability, what mo had claimed?....so, there is substance in Paki claim that, they are beakon of light of ummah....

#73 Posted by jayp on January 29, 2009 12:07:19 am


He said that what Mr Gates had said about the US plan was a unilateral decision which was not binding on Pakistan.


hey pal..your inability to do anything about it is what makes it binding..

Unilateral US decision not binding on Pakistan: Rabbani: Drone attacks



By Iftikhar A. Khan


ISLAMABAD, Jan 28: The Senate was informed on Wednesday that the government had not been informed by the United States about its decision to continue drone attacks in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas.

Speaking on a point of order raised by Professor Khursheed Ahmed, Leader of the House Mian Raza Rabbani rejected the claim of US Defence Secretary Robert Gates that a message had been conveyed to Islamabad about Washington’s decision to continue the attacks inside Pakistani territory.

“Till the very moment no written communication of this nature has been received by the Pakistan government from the US administration,� he added.

He said that what Mr Gates had said about the US plan was a unilateral decision which was not binding on Pakistan. If any operation was required it would be carried out by Pakistani security forces, he added.

Mr Rabbani said Pakistan being a sovereign state would not tolerate any aerial or territorial attack and the government was well aware of people’s sentiments. Sons of the soil, he added, would lay down their lives to defend the country if a need arose.
/////////////////////////////

The poor rabbani, he is not aware that teh drone ttacks have been going on for more than a year, and he is correct many pakis have laid down their lives infront of hell fire missiles.

For once, a paki politician has said the truth.

Re: # 60
ursfalsely....
From wiki, the casualty figure from musla side and russian side in afghan conflict stands like bellow-
muslas-1mn
russians-15k...
now, if the exchange rate between a russian and a musla is above 67, then russians lost heavily......

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

This so called Pakistan Bangladesh plan keeps coming up from time to time like a khota sikka. It is worthless crap.

Re: # 58
masadi is trying to enter by calling "testing," but something's stopping him. It's alright masadi bhai, there no women here. You can enter.

Pakistan-Bangladesh plan a Mughalistan to split India

Mughalistan (or Mughalstan) is the name of an independent homeland proposed for the Muslims of India. This Mughal-Muslim state in the Indian subcontinent will include all of North India and Eastern India, and will be formed by merging Pakistan and Bangladesh through a large corridor of land running across the Indo-Gangetic plain, the heartland of India. This Mughalistan corridor will comprise Muslim-majority areas of Northern India and eastern India that will be partitioned for the second time in history.
The comprehensive plan for a second partition of India was first developed by the Mughalstan Research Institute (MRI) of Jahangir Nagar University (Bangladesh) under the patronage of the two intelligence agencies, Pakistan’s Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) and Bangladesh’s Director General of Forces Intelligence, DGFI. The “Mughalistan Reaserch Institute of Bangladesh� has released a map where a Muslim corridor named “Mughalistan� connects Pakistan and Bangladesh via India.

The Pakistani Punjabi-dominated ISI’s influence on MRI is evident even in the Punjabi-centric pronunciation of the word ‘Mughalstan’ (without the “i�), instead of the typical Urdu pronunciation (Mughalistan). Islamic Jihadis in India have been well-armed and well-funded by the neighbouring Islamic regimes, as part of Operation Topac – the late Pakistani President Zia-ul-Haq’s grandiose plot to balkanize India.

Not surprisingly, Osama Bin Laden has thrown his support behind the concept and creation of this Greater Pakistan to “liberate� the Muslims of India from the Hindus. The Mumbai underworld (led by Karachi-based don Dawood Ibrahim who executed the gruesome 1993 Mumbai bombings), Jamaat-e-Islami, Lashkar-e-Tayyaba, Jaish-e-Mohammad and Hizbul Mujahideen have declared their unified support for creating this undivided Islamic nation in the Indian subcontinent. The Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) and Indian Mujahideen are working in tandem with the aforementioned organizations to waged Jihad against the Hindus of India.

It is important to note that in its “holy war� against India, the Lashkar-e-Tayyaba has openly declared Hindus to be the "enemies of Islam" who should all be converted or killed. The Lashkar-e-Tayyaba group has repeatedly claimed through its journals and websites that its main aim is to destroy the Indian republic and to annihilate Hinduism. Jaish-e-Mohammed has vowed to "liberate" not just Kashmir, but also to hoist the Islamic flag atop the historic Red Fort after capturing New Delhi and the rest of India.

SIMI has championed the "liberation of India through Islam" and aim to restore the supremacy of Islam through the resurrection of the Khilafat (Islamic Caliphate), emphasis on the Muslim Ummah (Islamic) and t he waging of Jihad on the Indian state, secularism, democracy and nationalism – the basic keystones of the Indian Constitution – as these concepts are antithetical to Islam. The Indian Mujahideen have sent several emails claiming responsibility for several bombings in Lucknow, Varanasi and Faizabad (in Uttar Pradesh), Bangalore, Jaipur, Ahmedabad and New Delhi in 2007 and 2008. The emails refer to notorious Islamic conquerors of India (Mohammed bin Qasim, Mohammad Ghauri and Mahmud Ghaznawi) as their role-models, refer to Hindu blood as “blood to be the cheapest of all mankind� and taunt Hindus that their “[Hindu] history is full of subjugation, humiliation, and insult [at the hands of Islamic conquerors]".

The Indian Mujahideen’s emails warn the Hindus to “Accept Islam and save yourselves� and or else face a horrible fate: – “Hindus! O disbelieving faithless Indians! Haven’t you still realized that the falsehood of your 33 crore dirty mud idols and the blasphemy of your deaf, dumb, mute and naked idols of ram, krishna and hanuman are not at all going to save your necks, Insha-Allah, from being slaughtered by our [Muslim] hands?�

Background

Pakistan’s emergence in 1947 was as a “mutilated, truncated, moth-eaten Pakistan, in M.A. Jinnah’s own words, because the Muslim League’s original plan did not envisage the partition of Punjab and Bengal. Today, Mughalistan is Jinnah’s dream come true.

The Partition of India provided temporary respite to the Indians and merely postponed the inevitable outcome. By 1971, all across Sindh, Western Punjab, Gandhara (Kandahar) and Eastern Bengal, the native populations of the Indian Religionists (Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains) have been wiped out almost entirely by conversion, massacre and mass exodus. Extrapolating this scenario, we find ominous results. This Islamic beach-head, which squeezes India from both sides (Pakistan and Bangladesh), gradually links up with a Fifth Column within India and gains fresh territorial and demographic victories within the last two decades (Kashmir valley, several districts of West Bengal and Assam, Malappuram district in Kerala and the Hyderabad-Deccan region). The Islamic Anschluss creeps steadily and bloodily, until the Western beach-head (Pakistan) is linked up demographically with the Eastern beach-head (Bangladesh) through the formation of a Islam-dominated belt called “Mughalstan�, that will then run through Jammu, Mewat, Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, West Bengal and Assam.

Jammu & Kashmir

It is an open secret that wherever the Muslims are in a majority, the rights and freedom of the non-Muslims are severely curtailed. Take for example Kashmir. It’s the only state in India which is a Muslim majority and let us see what happened there. Hundreds of temples were razed, Hindus were forced to flee , their women were raped, children were killed and houses forcibly occupied. The entire Kashmiri Hindu population (known as Kashmiri Pandits) having been driven away, killed or converted between 1990 and 2000 in a silent, mass genocide. The Muslims in Kashmir have been enjoying a special status under Constitution’s Article 370, hardly any central law is enforced there, the number of income-tax payers is among the lowest and unlike other poor states, J&K gets 90 per cent central financial assistance as grants and only 10 per cent as loans. Still there are complaints that a ‘Hindu central government discriminates’. The other minority, Buddhists mostly located in Ladakh, too, are harshly treated and discriminated against by the mainly Sunni Muslim governance in Srinagar. The Buddhist Association, Leh, has been submitting memorandums to the central government about how Buddhist youths are denied jobs and a fair chance to join the Kashmir Administrative service and professional colleges in spite of clearing the entrance exams. The number of Buddhist minorities is fast decreasing causing concern amongst their leaders. Even their dead are not allowed to be buried in Muslim-majority Kargil area and monasteries have been denied to be built. Leh district continues to see rampant conversions of Buddhist women to Islam.

The Kashmir Valley today has a 98 per cent Muslim population. Poonch district, which is contiguous with Pakistan, has a Muslim majority. Jammu district has seen regular attacks on Hindu civilians and temples. The Hindu-population of the adjacent district of Doda is being squeezed out by Islamic violence. As a result, Doda is now a Muslim-majority district, where the population ratio between the Muslims and the Hindus in Doda district is now 55:45. Doda town has a 90 per cent Muslim population. Out of the seven subdivisions, Banihal, Kishtwar and Balesa are Muslim dominated areas. Bhaderwah, Thathri and Ramban have a Hindu majority. In Ladakh, Kargil district has a Muslim majority.

Northern India

In the backward Mewat region of Haryana (and Rajasthan), Muslims form 66% of the local population. In 2005, the Congress (I) state government in Haryana quietly created a Muslim-majority district called Mewat, by vivisecting Gurgaon district. This move strengthened the clout of Islamic groups in the region. After all, it was in Haryana’s Mewat region in 1992, that Muslim mobs in Nuh town had hacked Hindus, destroyed Hindu temples and brazenly slaughtered cows openly on streets after seizing them from Gau Shalas (cow shelters). Today, the mass conversion of Hindu villagers to Islam, purchasing tens of thousands of Hindu girls for use as sex-slaves, cow-slaughter and social boycott of Hindus is common in Muslim families in Mewat. The average Muslim birth rates of 12-15 children per household in Mewat is increasing even more by ca ses like the Mohammed Ishaq family where the patriarch has sired 23 kids from his wife, Bismillah.
The 2008 bomb blasts targeting Hindu temples and civilians in Jaipur underscore the rising tension in Rajasthan.

Muslim-majority cities like Old Delhi and Malerkotla (in Indian Punjab) provide not only shelter to Jihadi terrorists, but also geographic continuity to Muslim-dominated districts of western Uttar Pradesh (UP), especially Agra, Aligarh, Azamgarh, Meerut, Bijnor as well as Muzaffarnagar, Kanpur, Varanasi, Bareilly, Saharanpur and Moradabad. Muslim attacks on Hindu religious processions, religious riots and bomb blasts are common place in UP as was seen in Mau, Ayodhya, Lucknow and Kanpur. The UP state population of Muslims has risen to 18% today.

Next door, Bihar has a 17% Muslim population and religious tensions are simmering.


Along the Indo-Nepal border of Uttar Pradesh and Bihar, around 1900 Islamic seminaries have come up on both sides of the Indo-Nepal border in recent times. "There has been an exponential increase of Madrassas on both sides of Indo-Nepal border in the recent past of which around 1100 are in India while the rest are in Nepal," revealed Director General of Sashastra Seema Bal (SSB) Tilak Kak. These large number of Madrassas, which serve as have come up in a disproportionate way and are not proportional to the Muslim population in the area. India’ s Task Force on Border Management, in its report of October 2000, wrote about the ominous developments along the India-Nepal border: “On the Indo-Nepal border, Madrassas and mosques have sprung up on both sides in the Terai region, accompanied by four-fold increase in the population of the minority community in the region. There are 343 mosques, 300 Madrassas and 17 mosques-cum- Madrassas within 10 kilometres of the border on the Indian side. On the Nepal side, there are 282 mosques, 181 Madrassas and eight mosques-cum-Madrassas. These mosques and Madrassas receive huge funds from Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Kuwait, Pakistan and Bangladesh. Managers of various Madrassas and Ulema maintain close links with the embassy officials of those countries located at Kathmandu. Financial assistance is also channelized through the Islamic Development Bank (Jeddah), Habib Bank of Pakistan and also through some Indian Muslims living in Gulf countries. Pakistan’s Habib Bank, after becoming a partner in Nepal’s Himalayan Bank, has expanded its network in the border areas including Biratnagar and Krishna Nagar. It is suspected that foreign currency is converted into Indian currency in Nepal and then brought to India clandestinely. Madrasas and mosques on the Indo-Nepal border are frequently visited by prominent Muslim leaders, Tablighi Jamaats (proselytizing groups) and pro-Pak Nepali leaders. Officials of Pak Embassy have come to notice visiting Terai area of Nepal to strengthen Islamic institutions and to disburse funds to them . Pro-Pak elements in Nepal also help in demographic subversion of the Terai belt.�

West Bengal and Assam: The Weakest Links in the Chain

According to the 2001 census, the Muslim population is 28% of the total West Bengal population. In Assam, the Muslim population comprises at least 31% of the total state population.

Arun Shourie wrote this in the Indian Express in 2004:

“Muslims in India accounted for 9.9 per cent (of India’s population) in 1951, 10.8 per cent in 1971 and 11.3 per cent in 1981, and presumably about 12.1 per cent in 1991. The present population ratio of Muslims is calculated to be 28 per cent in Assam and 25 per cent in West Bengal. In 1991 the Muslim population in the border districts of West Bengal accounted for 56 per cent in South and North Parganas, 48 per cent in Nadia, 52 per cent in Murshidabad, 54 per cent in Malda and about 60 per cent in Islampur sub-division of West Dinajpur. A study of the border belt of West Bengal yields some telling statistics: 20-40 per cent villages in the border districts are said to be predominantly Muslim. There are indications that the concentration of the minority community, including the Bangladesh immigrants, in the villages has resulted in the majority community moving to urban centres. Several towns in the border districts are now predominantly inhabited by the majorit y community but surrounded by villages mostly dominated by the minority community. Lin Piao’s theory of occupying the villages before overwhelming the cities comes to mind, though the context is different. However, the basic factor of security threat in both the cases is the same.

Figures have been given showing the concentration of Muslim population in the districts of West Bengal bordering Bangladesh starting from 24 Parganas and going up to Islampur of West Dinajpur district and their population being well over 50 per cent of the population. The Kishanganj district (of Bihar) which was part of Purnea district earlier, which is contiguous to the West Bengal area, also has a majority of Muslim population. The total population of the districts of South and North 24 Parganas, Murshidabad, Nadia, Malda and West Dinajpur adds up to 27,337,362. If we add the population of Kishanganj district of Bihar of 986,672, the total comes to 28,324,034. (All figures are based on the 1991 Census.) This mass of land with a population of nearly 2.8 crores has a Muslim majority. The total population of West Bengal in 1991 was 67.9 million and of these, 28.32 million are concentrated in the border districts, with about 16-17 million population of minority community being concentrated in this area. This crucial tract of land in West Bengal and Bihar, lying along the Ganges/Hughly and west Bangladesh with a population of over 28 million, with Muslims constituting a majority, should give cause for anxiety for any thinking Indian.’’

And what if, from these figures, I had advanced two warnings.

First:

‘‘There is a distinct danger of another Muslim country, speaking predominantly Bengali, emerging in the eastern part of India in the future, at a time when India might find itself weakened politically and militarily.’’


And second: that the danger is as grave even if that third Islamic State does not get carved out in the sub-continent into a full-fledged country? What if I had put that danger as follows?

‘‘Let us look at the map of Eastern India — starting from the North 24 Parganas district, proceeding through Nadia, Murshidabad, Malda and West Dinajpur before entering the narrow neck of land lying through Raiganj and Dalkola of Islampur sub-division before passing through the Kishanganj district of East Bihar to enter Siliguri. Proceed further and take a look at the north Bengal districts of Darjeeling, Jalpaiguri and Cooch Behar before entering Assam, and its districts of Dhubri, Goalpara, Bongaigaon, Kokrajhar and Barpeta. A more sensitive region in Asia is difficult to locate...’’

To quote Sandhya Jain’s article India’s Cancer Wards in “The Pioneer�:

"Mr. R.K.20Ohri, ex-IGP, Arunachal Pradesh, cautioned that an Islamic Caliphate is rising on India's flanks, from Bangladesh to West Asia, and that the shadow of the Mughalistan corridor is now visibly manifesting in various districts along the Indo-Nepal and Indo-Bangladesh border. The demand for a 'Muslim Banghboomi' has already been raised, warns ex-MP B.L. Sharma (Prem). Traveling in West Bengal to check out certain atrocities against Hindus some years ago, his convoy was attacked by Bangladeshis. When demographer J.K. Bajaj and his colleagues prepared a mathematical model of the demographic challenge facing India, they found it exactly matched the map prepared by Bangladesh's Mughalstan Research Institute. Experts feel the latter has been prepared by the ISI because the 'Mughalstan' spelling indicates a Punjabi mind!
Bangladesh's reputed human rights activist Salam Azad laments that Bangladesh is the best place in the world for the return of the Taliban. Madrasas, he said, are teaching that "Muslims are the best in the world; non-Muslims will be converted, beaten, killed, married, raped, because non-Muslim women are regarded as maal-i-ganimat (free war booty)… Minorities will be oppressed, indigenous people will be attacked, in my country there is oppression everywhere and this is being done by the so-called educated people of the madrasas."

West Bengal BJP leader Tathagatha Roy said the extent of atrocities against Hindus in Bangladesh can be seen from the fact that in several districts there was not a s ingle woman between the ages of seven to seventy years who had not been raped in that country. He apologized for the indifference of the BJP Government which did not grant refugee status to Hindus fleeing oppression in Bangladesh. North Eastern Students Organisation chairman Samujjal Bhattacharya said all 49 tribal belts and blocks in Assam have been occupied by Bangladeshis. The shadows have spread to Arunachal, Nagaland, Manipur and Meghalaya Today, Hindus residing within a 50-km radius of the border are feeling the heat. They are being harassed on Indian soil and forced to move as the infiltrators establish themselves along this corridor, thus de facto extending the Bangladesh border into India.’

The West Bengal administration, which had taken a serious view of the problem in the initial stages of the Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee government, now seems to have accepted it as a fait accompli. The chief minister had adopted some steps to contain the menace when the BJP strongman L.K.Advani was the union home minister from 1998-2004. But his initiative has slackened after the installation of the UPA government at the Centre since 2004.

In case the ramifications of the unfolding scenario are not yet clear to Indians, the bomb-blasts and religious riots are a roaring continuation of the 1400-year Jihad against India – an ongoing war that will culminate in the Islamisation of what’s left of Hindustan. Already the demographic battle is underway and the Mughalistan scenari o looks feasible. The book “Religious Demography of India� published by A P Joshi, M.D. Srinivas and J K Bajaj of the Centre for Policy Studies (CPS), Chennai, reveals that in 2001, Muslims comprise over 30% of the total population in the Indian-subcontinent (comprising India, Pakistan and Bangladesh). The total Muslim population zoomed from 12.5% (1991) to 30.3% (2001), in just 10 years (from ex-IAS officer V.Sundaram’s article in “News Today�: Deathly Demographic warnings for India).

According to the 2001 census report, Indian population is 1,027,015,247.3. Of this, 1.5 crore people are Bangladeshi infiltrators who are living in India. The Intelligence Bureau has reportedly estimated, after an extensive survey, that the present number is about 16 million. The August 2000 report of the Task Force on Border Management placed the figure at 15 million, with 300,000 Bangladeshis entering India illegally every month. It is estimated that about 13 lakh Bangladeshis live in Delhi alone. It has been reported that one crore Bangladeshis are missing from Bangladesh [August 4, 1991, Morning Sun] and it implies that those people have infiltrated into India. These infiltrators mainly settle in the north-east India and in West Bengal. This is shown by the fact that there has been irregular increase in the Muslim population in these states and many of=2 0the districts have become Muslim majority. The proportion of Muslims in Assam had increased from 24.68 per cent in 1951 to 30.91 per cent in 2001. Whereas in the same time period the proportion of Muslims in India increased from 9.91 per cent to 13.42 per cent. In West Bengal, the Muslim population in west Dinajpur, Maldah, Birbhum and Murshidabad 36.75 per cent, 47.49 per cent, 33.06 per cent and 61.39 per cent respectively, according to 1991 census.

This has not only caused the burden on the Indian economy, but also threatens the identity of the indigenous people of the north-east of India. In Tripura, another north-eastern state of India, the local population has been turned into a minority community over a short period of time by the sheer numbers of cross-border migrants from Bangladesh. In 1947, 56 per cent of Tripura’s population consisted of tribal (or indigenous) population. Today this stands at a 25% of the total. In many districts these infiltrators are the one who decides the outcome of elections. Outcomes of the 32 per cent of Vidhan Sabha seats in Assam and 18 per cent of seats in West Bengal are decided by them. This is due to the fact that political parties are helping them to get ration cards and voters ID and hence using them to win elections.

According to the report, at present there are 80 lakh Bangladeshi infiltrators in Bengal, 55 lakh in Assom, 4 lakh in Tripura and 5 lakh in Bihar (Katihar, Purnia and Kishenganj districts) and Jharkhan d(Sahebganj district). As far as West Bengal is concerned, the concentration of infiltrators is quite marked in the border districts like North and South Dinajpur, Cooch Behar, Nadia, Murshidabad, Malda and North and South 24 Parganas. The affected areas in Assom are Dhubri, Goalpara, Karimganj and Hailakandi, while a similar scenario is noticeable in Kailashar, Sabrum, Udaipur and Belonia areas in Tripura. Pakistan's ISI is believed to have a hand behind this large-scale infiltration which has been playing havoc with the economy of Bengal and Assam. Home ministry sources say Harkat-ul-Jehadi-Islami(HUJI), the dreaded militant outfit active in Bangladesh, has succeeded in sending a large number of militants along with the infiltrators to West Bengal.
The Home ministry had laid stress on an early completion of barbed-wire fencing along the borders with Bangladesh. Of the 2216 km-long border the fencing could be completed only along 1167 km till 2007. The continuous infiltration has brought about serious demographic changes to Bengal's border areas and made the border-map, drawn after the 1974 Indira-Mujib agreement, somewhat irrelevant. The Centre has consequently sought a detailed report from the state government on changes in the population pattern in 66 blocks of nine border districts.

DGFI & ISI Plan To Capture West Bengal and Assam Through Vote Machinery.

To facilitate Mughalistan and the concomitant partition of India and Bengal,20the DGFI-ISI have jointly planned to change the demography of West Bengal and Assam on a priority basis.

As many as 53 out of 294 Assembly constituencies in West Bengal have a high concentration of voters who happen to be illegal Muslim from Bangladesh. Similarly, the fate of 40 Assembly seats in Assam depends on the votes cast by illegal Bangladeshi Muslim infiltrators. All this has been revealed by a recent report of the union home ministry on infiltration from India's neighbour. The report has been prepared on the basis of facts and figures provided by the Task Force on Border Management and Assam's former governor S.K. Sinha.

As such the Bangladeshi Muslims can control the West Bengal Assembly, and dictate terms to the state government of West Bengal in all respects. The picture of plight of majority Hindu electorates worsened in the State, as Muslim electorates have a clear majority in three districts viz. Malda, Murshidabad & North Dinajpur and 63 (sixty three) blocks in West Bengal. Again, an analysis upon the projection into the 2001 Census hints at abnormal Muslim growth everywhere in West Bengal, where the Muslim population is 28% of the total state population.

There are at least 5 powerful Muslim ministers in the West Bengal state cabinet: Abdur Rezzak Mollah (Minister of Land & Land Reforms), Anisur Rahaman (Minister of Animal Resources Development), Mortaja Hossain (Minister of Agriculture, Marketing & Relief, Minster of State), Anarul Haque (Minister of State for Public Health, Engineering) and Abdus Sattar (Minister of State for Minority Development & Madrasa Education).

In West Bengal, there are 45 Muslim Members of the Legislative Assembly (MLAs) out of 294 seats. There are 5 Muslim Members of Parliament from West Bengal out of 42 seats: Mohammed Salim (Calcutta North East), Abu Ayes Mondal (Katwa), Abu Hasem Khan Choudhury (Malda), Abdul Mannan Hossain (Murshidabad) and Hannan Mollah (Uluberia), all of whom strength the control of Islam in various government institutions and the police hierarchy.

As the UPA Central Government and the CPI(M) State Government have paid no attention for the threat of Bangladeshi Muslim infiltrators in West Bengal, the Bangladeshi Muslims have captured land, money and unequalled power of voting throughout the border districts in Bengal in many places.

With the passive support of both the UPA Central Government and the CPI(M) State Government and with the active support of all the political parties in West Bengal (except for the BJP) for winning the Muslim votebank’s support, the DGFI & ISI has actively put down roots in the soil of West Bengal for their purposes. Not only are they successful in the ongoing demographic change of West Bengal by means of mobilizing the election machinery of Bengal, they have also opened their fronts everywhere in smuggling, trafficking, drug peddling, illegal cow smuggling, trans-border gang robbery and of course terrorism, with the active grassroots support to the Harakat ul- Jihad-I-Islami-Bangladesh (HUJI-B), Lashkar-e-Tayyaba and Jaish-e-Mohammad.

Now in its most advantageous position, the DGFI & ISI’s joint collaboration is now promoting activities of Mughalistan in Kolkata, Howrah & other districts. The Dhaka-based Mughalistan Research Institute has identified various areas marked as “Mini Pakistan� in W.Bengal & Eastern India. This Mughalistan, as we know, comprises the entity of Greater Pakistan, right from Afghanistan to Myanmar including Bangladesh, whole of W. Bengal, Assam & many other portions of India. This Pan-Islamic movement gets petro-dollars from the Arab World and fake Indian Currency from Pakistan and Bangladesh for the maximum manifestation of their plans. The Muslim infiltration from Bangladesh gives oxygen to the Pan-Islamic movement in India. Now they have direct access into the West Bengal State Assembly and into the Ministry of Bengal within Writers Building, Kolkata. But sadly, West Bengal’s vote politics undermine the situation by turning a blind eye to this colossal tragedy, unabashedly providing voters’ ID cards to the Muslim infiltrators and setting a dangerous peril for Bengali Hindus and India.

The North-Eastern region is connected to rest of India by a small strip called “The Siliguri Corridor� or “Chicken’s Neck�. The Islamists have planned to isolate the North-East of India from the rest of India, in order to facilitate the creation of Mughalistan. This Operation is named as “Operation20Pin code�. For this they have planned to infiltrate 3000 Jihadis into North Eastern region. According to the Task Force, there are 905 Mosques and 439 Madrasas along Indo-Bangladesh border on the Indian side.
Some excerpts from the report, "Demography survey on eastern border" by Bhavna Vij-Aurora in “The Telegraph� are startling. “There have been reports that more Madarsas and mosques are sprouting along the borders, which in itself is an indication of increased Muslim population in the area," disclosed an intelligence official. The last such study was done by the Intelligence Bureau and the home ministry in 1992, and their report kept a secret in view of the sensitive findings. It was ultimately leaked and the estimated number of illegal migrants from Bangladesh was anywhere between 1.5 crore and 2 crore. It's time for a fresh survey, according to sources. There have been renewed intelligence reports that militants are using madarsas and mosques as safe havens, and also for storing arms and ammunition. According to reports, the largest number of madarsas and mosques has come up in bordering areas with Nepal, lower Assam and Bengal. This complements another secret survey that has revealed that nearly 40 per cent villages in the border districts of Bengal are predominantly Muslim. There are reports that concentration of the minority community, including the Bangladeshi immigrants in the villages, has resul ted in the majority community moving to urban areas. Along with madarsas and mosques, a large number of Muslim NGOs have sprung up in the area bordering Nepal. Most of these madarsas are used for anti-India activities by Pakistan-backed terrorists. The NGOs ostensibly work for the social and educational uplift of the Muslim community and receive substantial and completely unregulated funding from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Libya and other Islamic countries," an intelligence report said."

When India was partitioned in 1947 on religious grounds and Muslims got West Pakistan and East Pakistan (now Bangladesh), they had a vulture´s eye on the entire north-east. Muslims were not satisfied with both the Pakistans. They wanted the whole of the north-east region (undivided Assam) integrated with East Pakistan. Manul Haq Chowdhury, Jinnah´s private secretary, who remained in Assam and later became a minister in Assam assembly, wrote to Jinnah in 1947: “Quaid-e-Azam, wait for the next thirty years, I shall present Assam to Pakistan on a platter.�

Since then, a sinister game plan to ‘grow more Muslims in the north-east’ has been going on surreptitiously.

Today, out of the total 24 districts of Assam, six districts, namely, Nagaon, Goalpara, Dhubri, Karimganj, Barpeta and Hailakanndi have 60 per cent Muslim population while other six, namely, Bongaigaon, Kokrajhar, Kamrup, Nalbari, Darang and Cachar districts have above 40 per cent of them. Out of the 126 assembly seats, the election of 54 MLAs depends on the Muslim vote bank. There are 28 Muslim MLAs and four ministers, namely, (i) Rocky Bul Hussain (Nagaon), Minister of State for Home Affairs; (ii) Ismail Hussain (Dhubri), Minister for Flood; (iii) Dr Nazurul Islam (Doboka), Minister for Food and Civil Supply, and (iv) Misabul Hussain Laskar (Borkhola, Cachar), Minister for Cooperatives.

There are two Lok Sabha MPs in Assam, namely, Anwar Hussain from Dhubri and A.F. Gulam Osmani from Barpeta and one Rajya Sabha MP, Smt. Anwara Timur (Nagaon). The Muslim community of Assam has provided one former Muslim Chief Minister—Smt. Anwara Timur (Nagaon) and one former President of India—Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed (Lakhtokia, Guwahati). Earlier, in the Assam Gana Parishad (AGP) Ministry, headed by Prafulla Kumar Mahanta, there were two Muslim ministers, namely, Maidul Islam Bora from Kamalpur, Kamrup district and Sukur Ali from Barpeta. Several high-ranking officers including deputy commissioners are from this community. Obviously, the Muslim community, including the Indian Muslims and the Bangladeshi Muslims, have become a dominant group in Assam and it is they who decide who would be the Chief Minister of Assam and what would be the major policies of Assam pertaining to detection and deportation of illegal Muslim migrants and care of Muslim welfare.

Tarun Gogoi, the Congress(I) Chief Minister of Assam, is giving all protection to these Muslims due to political compulsions. The Assamese community has been overpowered by Muslims. These Bangladeshi Muslims are sneaking into upper Assam too, creating serious problems for the Assamese. The demography of Assam has drastically changed and the very existence of the indigenous people is threatened. The manifold growth in Muslim population has overburdened Assam and the Assamese people are feeling harassed and tortured. The livelihoods of the local people are getting snatched away by these illegal Muslim migrants. The Janjati (indigenous tribal) communities in Assam are not organized. Therefore, their land and forests are very often forcefully occupied by these Muslims. The Nelli massacre in 1983 was the worst clash between the local people and Bangladeshi Muslims in which several Lalung Janjati people were reportedly killed and many Lalung villages were burnt.

These Bangladeshis have illegally sneaked into Manipur, Mizoram, Meghalaya, Arunachal Pradesh and Tripura too. They are marrying the local girls of influential people and are thus getting protection from their in-laws’ families. After marriage with a Janjati girl, they convert her to Islam. They purchase land in the Janjati belts in the name of their Janjati wives by producing Janjati certificates in her name. Now, the new generation of Muslims, i.e. the Janjati Muslims, is growing. They give Muslim names to their children but the clan remains that of local wives, like Saidullah Ningrum, Azad Lingdoh (Khasi Muslims), Nizamuddin Semia, Akram Semia (Naga Muslims), Shahabuddin Chowdhury, Akbar Laskar (Assamese Muslims) and others. In Assam, Muslims are u sing Assamese surnames like Hazarika, Barbhuian, Bargohain, Bhuiyan, Bora, Gohain and others.

There are Meitei Muslims too in Manipur.

In Nagaland, the Muslim menace is more serious. Dimapur has become the den of these Bangladeshi Muslims. They constitute the leading labour force in the agriculture sector owned by the Naga community. The majority of rickshaw-pullers, auto-drivers and other manual labourers is now of Bangladeshi Muslims. This has given rise to robbery, theft, illegal trafficking of narcotic drugs and liquor, smuggling of pornographic films and vulgar literature and an unprecedented rise in crime, flesh trade and prostitution. This influx has narrowed the jobs of lay workers too.

The Nagaland state capital, Kohima, has become the second biggest haven for the illegal migrant Muslims who occupy most of the shops in the main market, P.R. Hills and other localities. They marry Angami girls and become sons-in-law of the Naga people.

Similarly, all the district areas such as Mokokchung, Wokha, Zunheboto, Phek, Mon and Tuensang are infested with them. They are sneaking into the interiors of Nagaland. In places like Jalukie in Zeliang area, Naginimora, Tizit and other central places of Nagaland, the pain of the presence of migrant Muslims is felt by the local Naga populace. Some ten years before, the students´ bodies had agitated against these foreigner Muslims. But the agitation was silently withdrawn reportedly due to threats from Bangladesh that the Government of Bangladesh would demolish all the camps of Naga undergrounds established in the territory of that country if the Bangladeshi Muslims were harassed in Nagaland. On seeing this unprecedented growth of Muslim population in Nagaland, S.C. Jamir, the then Chief Minister, once stated, “Muslims are breeding like mosquitoes in Nagaland.�

As a result of such illegal migration of Bangladeshi Muslims and their nuptial ties with the local Naga girls, a new community called Semiya or Sumias has already emerged in the state. Their number is estimated to be several thousand. The concentration of the Semiyas is the highest in Dimapur and Kohima districts respectively. There are fears among many that the voters’ list might have been doctored to accommodate the Semiyas as well other immigrants. The result of such immigration is gradually being felt in the state.

According to a Dimapur-based newspaper, on any Muslim religious day at least half of the shops in Kohima and some 75 per cent in Dimapur remain closed. It is also a fact that control over business establishments is fast receding from the hands of the locals. A recent survey conducted by the state directorate of Agriculture showed that 71.73 per cent of the total business establishments are being controlled and run by non-locals. Out of the 23,777 numbers of shops in the state, the local people own only 6,722 shops. Since the illegal migrants provide cheap labour, they are aggravating the unemployment problem. Besides, they pose a threat to the intern al security as well. Reliable sources indicate that they are also involved in various unwanted activities like drug peddling and flesh trade.

The Big Picture

The following map shows the concentration of Muslims and Hindus in the Indian subcontinent today. The highlighted areas show riot-prone regions of India where aggressive Muslim populations range from atleast 20% to 100% of the population.


Lest one mistakenly thinks that Mughalistan is the culmination of the Islamisation of India and that somehow the rest of India will be spared its fate, it must be stressed that this second partition of India is only the beginning. In Hyderabad of Andhra Pradesh, northern districts of Karnataka and certain areas of Maharashtra, the growth of Muslims is very high. Likewise, in Kerala, the Muslims now constitute 25% of the state’s population. Malappuram district was carved out to create a Muslim majority district by the Communist government headed by E.M.S Namboothiripad. Today, the entire Malappuram district enforces the weekly holiday on Friday (not Sunday) for schools and businesses, while Hindus in neighbouring Kozhikode (Calicut) and Kannur are intimidated through high-profile massacres like in Marad. The planning and execution is well underway to ensure a continuing Anschluss where several Muslim majority pockets such as Moplahstan (in Kerala) and Osmanistan (in the Deccan) will gradually spread in si ze and link up with Mughalistan to form a
Greater Mughalistan.

This Greater Mughalistan is of strategic significance as it will provide a contiguous, strategic corridor linking the Ummah into a pan-Islamic Caliphate. The ISI-DGFI-Indian Jihadi triumvirate has fondly nicknamed this pan-Islamic Caliphate as Islamistan (meaning "Land of Islam"), a synonym for `Islamic World' or `Dar-ul-Islam'. This geographical Islamic crescent will link the Islamic Middle-East to Islamic South-East Asia, with the new Islamic World stretching all the way from Morocco and Bosnia in the West to Malaysia and Indonesia in the East.

There are Muslims in India today who dream of “Mughalistan� and are working relentlessly towards a further partition of India by creating “Mughalistan� in the UP-Bihar-Bengal-Assam corridor. It remains the focus of mainstream groups like the Tablighi Jamaat (who have methodically radicalised the ordinary Muslims) as well as underground terror groups like the Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) and the Indian Mujahideen, who have blown up several Indian cities killing thousands of people. Until Mughalstan is achieved, Indians will continue to see serial bomb-blasts, attacks on Hindu festivals and temples, killings of Hindu activists, conversions of Hindu women and socio-economically backward sections, and brazen cow-slaughter that will continue endlessly until the Hindu mind becomes too numb and shell-shocked to look at the bigger picture, or comprehend the future – that Mughalistan is inevitable (“Mughalstan Paindabad�).

Lessons of history have been quickly forgotten. Indians have become twisted “politically correct� escapists who prefer to turn a blind eye to reality. Now it is not about just Kashmir any more, it is all of India that Pakistan wants. And the creation of Mughalistan is not a question of “If�, but “When�. Unless we stand up and stop it.

All Indians, secularists and nationalists alike, must act quickly. We should ponder upon the future of India that we will bequeath to our children in the near future, if the plan of Mughalistan is allowed to proceed unhindered. Indians have to start taking responsibility for their future generations. We must do everything in our might, to ensure that the tide of Islamic expansionism is restricted and reversed, beginning right now.

The common man should take all possible measures politically, socially and economically to single-mindedly achieve this goal.

From an email circulated by:

Ashoke Gupta
New Delhi

ANALYSIS OF NEW US ROUTES TO AFGHANISTAN-CLICK ON MAPS TO ENLARGE


For Map see :---


http://low-intensity-conflict-review.blogspot.com/2009/01/analysis-of- new-us-routes-to.html

US negotiates new supply routes to Afghanistan
Wed, Jan 21

Islamabad, Jan 21 (ANI): The United States has negotiated new supply lines for allied troops in Afghanistan through Central Asia after the Pakistan Taliban attacked and torched supplies passing through the Khyber Pass.

US CENTCOM chief General David Petraeus said: "Pakistan is the sole route through which NATO and American supplies pass at present. This has caused resentment in sections of Pakistani society and supply trucks passing through the northwest have been attacked and raided on several occasions."

After meeting with Pakistani leaders and top army officials, General Petraeus said the move came after a series of attacks on depots in and around Peshawar, where hundreds of vehicles used to ferry supplies to NATO and US forces in Afghanistan from the south were torched.

"It is very important, as we increase effort in Afghanistan, that we have multiple routes that go into the country," The Nation quoted Petraeus, as saying.

He noted traffic had been flowing "generally freely" through the Khyber Pass with a couple of "interruptions" in recent weeks.

"But we have sought additional logistical routes into Afghanistan from the north," he added.

Earlier, the US Commander held a series of meetings with President Asif Ali Zardari, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani during his one-day trip to Islamabad.

General Petraeus, who had left for Afghanistan, had visited a number of Central Asian Republics before landing in Islamabad. (ANI)
------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------


ANALYSIS:--

1-LONGER ROUTE WITH MORE THREATS TILL BASE LENGTHWISE SPECIALLY TORGHUNDI -KANDAHAR ROUTE.

2-GREATER DEPENDANCE ON TURKMENISTAN WHICH CAN BE INFLUENCED BY RUSSIA.

3-INCREASE IN ALIENATION OF PASHTUN TRANSPORTERS NOW DEALING WITH TRANSPORTATION ON KARACHI BOLDAK AND KARACHI TORKHAM ROUTES.

4-PRACTICALLY THIS WILL MAKE LITTLE CHANGE TO ANYTHING MILITARY IN AFGHANISTAN EXCEPT GREATER COMMITTMENT OF TROOPS TO CONVOY DUTIES.GREATER REQUIREMENT OF TROOPS FOR ESCORT DUTIES ON TORGHUNDI KANDAHAR ROAD WILL INCREASE THE MILITARY BURDEN ON AFGHAN NATIONAL ARMY AND POLICE.SINCE MOST OF FUEL IS COMING VIA UZBEKISTAN TERMEZ ROUTE RUSSIAN ABILITY TO INFLUENCE EVENTS WOULD BE INCREASED.

ALL SAID AND DONE WITHOUT RUSSIAN AND INDIAN ASSISTANCE US WILL BE UNABLE TO CONTROL AFGHANISTAN IN THE LONG RUN.

THE KEY WEAKNESS IS EXPENSIVE US MANPOWER,WHILE RUSSIAN IS CHEAPER AND INDIAN TROOPS ARE DIRT CHEAP.

AGHA




BELOW ARE THE MAPS THAT I DREW TO EXPLAIN THE SITUATION ON GROUND:---

CLICK ON MAPS TO ENLARGE AND IF YOU REPRODUCE THEM HAVE THE COURTESY TO ACKNOWLEDGE A.H AMINS ORIGINAL EFFORTS.A VAIN HOPE IN CASE YOU ARE PAKISTANI OR INDIAN.UTTERLY HOPELESS PEOPLE.
Agha Amin

A Journalist wrote the following heralding the new great route for Afghanistan:---




"The 218-km road connecting Delaram (on the Kandahar-Herat highway) to Zaranj, on the border with Iran has been completed.
It will provide landlocked Afghanistan an alternative access to the sea, the Iranian port of Chahbahar, allowing it to break free from Pakistan’s traditional stranglehold.

it remains to be seen if Iran will prove to be a better neighbour than Pakistan.
For Afghanistan, this is an opportunity to regain better access to the Indian market that it lost in 1947. For India, it is an opportunity to regain better access to Central Asia that it too lost in 1947."


The same writer then produces the below twit of a map to support his highly utopian assertions:--






Unfortunately its not as simple as that .The new route passes through some 218 km of ideal ambush country in Afghanistan and some 600 km of ideal ambush country in Iran.

Convoys would require heavy escorts and above all increase Irans clout in case the route is successful.

The route will expose ten times more vehicles carrying supplies as compared to the Pakistan route.

The threat to NATO communications in Pakistan is actually temporary and its possible that its a veiled protest with Pakistani governments involvement against US drone attacks which have made more enemies for USA without eliminating any of its real foes.

The USA needs to understand that Taliban are no longer internationally isolated.Its in the interest of all regional countries to ensure that the USA fails in Afghanistan.So the Taliban is no longer a fatherless child.They have many resourceful fathers now.The developing Chinese and Russian perceptions that if USA suceeds in Afghanistan it would be a fatal blow to both.


Agha Amin

HP saeen,

I would prefer that the supply route is moved from Pakistan

This may well be in Pakistan's best interests. But Pak Army which gets its rent acting as a courier may not be very thrilled with this development

Why not have the US finance the rebuilding of the railways and roads?

Seems to be a sensible strategy from Russian/Chinese POV.

almost half of the US supplies passing through Pakistan is pilfered by motley groups of Taliban militants, petty traders and plain thieves.

Well, you can consider that as a sort of development grant to the people of NWFP. Urstruly can consider this as jizya!!!

Regards

urstruly and Majumdar,
basically, russia will have 60,000 plus more troops in summer, US and Nato hostages like Pakistan has them now! The only thing is that Pakistan will never dare to starve the Us troops but the Russians would or extract a heavy price.

I would prefer that the supply route is moved from Pakistan but the Americans are using the Russian ruse to intimidate the Pak army.

Russian and Chinese pov:
“Russia/China: Why not have the US finance the rebuilding of the railways and roads? They'll never win in Afghanistan anyway. Building up traffic in the area will just increase Russian and Chinese 'inroads' in the central Asian countries. US has nothing to offer these countries. The longer the path, the greater the shrinkage.

Russia will of course use this to its best interest. It now has the U.S. by the balls. Once the supply route is established but could get closed anytime Russia is miffed, the grip will only tighten.�

Read this link too:
shrunklink.com/bobb

Here it is

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KA27Df01.html

The shocking intelligence assessment shared by Moscow reveals that almost half of the US supplies passing through Pakistan is pilfered by motley groups of Taliban militants, petty traders and plain thieves. The US Army is getting burgled in broad daylight and can't do much about it. Almost 80% of all supplies for Afghanistan pass through Pakistan. The Peshawar bazaar is doing a roaring business hawking stolen US military ware, as in the 1980s during the Afghan jihad against the Soviet Union. This volume of business will register a quantum jump following the doubling of the US troop level in Afghanistan to 60,000. Wars are essentially tragedies, but can be comical, too.

HP saeen,

Re: 62

The logical corollary is that if USA intends to keep on inside Astan, sooner or later USA will have to come to terms with the Pak Army. And as per you, Kashmir will be the gift that will have to be offered as a reward for that.

Regards

"First of all it will add close to 500 miles of extremely hostile and rough territory for American convoys to pass through to get to the Eastern Afghanistan, which is the hub of control. Then there is Salang Pass. "

----
Urstruly.

This is not the end of the problems there other problems too such as there is no railway track in Afghanistan and the US and NATO forces are concentrated in the South and East. So the supplies will have to be loaded on trucks and sent down the same route that is pretty much constant talib attacks. The supply problem is more inside Afghanistan than in Pakistan. I have a russian study which says almost 60% of the supplies never reach the US troops. so to deliver one blanket the US needs to ship almost two blankets.
Let me see if I can post link to that Russian study!

Urstruly mian,

To this day Russian mothers scare their children with the name of Salang Pass where just in one operation the Afghan Freedom Fighters massacred close to 3000 Russina soldier and hundereds of vehicles destroyed.

I may be wrong on this but to the best of my knowledge the region is controlled by Tajiks who are anti-Taliban.

Regards

Re: # 57 lamnew

I think you are partially correct. Russia would definitely want concessions in return - probably in its "traditonal" territory of East Europe. But for Americans and NATo chosing thru-Russia route is going to add the problems that Russians know very well. First of all it will add close to 500 miles of extremely hostile and rough territory for American convoys to pass through to get to the Eastern Afghanistan, which is the hub of control. Then there is Salang Pass. To this day Russian mothers scare their children with the name of Salang Pass where just in one operation the Afghan Freedom Fighters massacred close to 3000 Russina soldier and hundereds of vehicles destroyed. In a way it is good for Pakistan and Pakistani Talibans and Afghan Freedom Fighters will shift their focus inside Afghanistan for ambushing american convyos ssupporting 90K troops. The route through Iran is shorter but it still adds about 300 miles of very very hostile territory. In that case the freedom fighters would raid across baluchistan border. As much as we want americasn to get lost, it seems unlikely in near future. Unless of course the inevitable day of guilloutines dawns upon paksitan and Pakistan's social elite working as american foot soldiers are exterminated.

HP saeen,

Supply route through Russia? What have they been smoking?
They would just gift Russia a payback opportunity.

Should NATO atcually float such a proposal, Russia wud be well advised to do say yes and do a Pakistan. Act as a conduit to US supplies, collect rent on that and use a part of the loot to finance USA's opponents and keep USA bogged down there. Possibly China can join them in the game.

The only reason the US wants to remain in Afghanistan is to continue to keep that region unstable.

But what is USA's objective in doing that?

Regards

testing

Pavo's thesis is not based on reality. The only reason the US wants to remain in Afghanistan is to continue to keep that region unstable.
Taliban can be defeated but it will take heavy losses to accomplish that. The US can't take those losses so it is trying to force Pakistan to man the borders enabling the US to control the cities. So the strategy is not to defeat Taliban but to keep them confined to the rural Afghanistan and allowing them to control the poppy crop.

With another 30K troops, the Nato and the US armies would be at 90K personal. They need a reliable supply line and the reliability only is thru Pakistan and not via Iran or Russia.
Right now the US is trying to intimidate the Pak army but soon it will be back to doling out money.....

Center For New American Security (CNAS)says:

if somebody, namely Russia, tries to tinker with the new northern supply routes, we may find ourselves suddenly enjoying an old-fashioned confrontation with a country that has a long and cherished history of cutting off and starving those too eager to intrude (ahem, Stalingrad, erm..)--a matter that would be a far more immediate concern to U.S. national security than even an eroding nuclear-armed Pakistan-Taliban nexus.
In short, a failure to recognize--and highlight--the ugly fact that our strategic goals for Afghanistan are, in essence, being held hostage by our insecure lines of supply, is a recipe for a serious strategic disaster. Our strategic goals for Afghanistan cannot over-match the goals of the countries that control our supply lines. They've got to align someplace, yet with one of those "supply-chokers" being Pakistan...how? We're already half hamstrung. This is a very tight and very complex spot.

Supply route through Russia? What have they been smoking?
They would just gift Russia a payback opportunity. I doubt that Russians have forgotten the 1979-80 trap or the boast of a trap by Brezenski(sp).

The supply route issue has been a major talking point even with lazy media trying to support Obama's crank up of the war with Pakistan. As in if you do go to war with Pakistanis, how do you run a supply line through the war zone that you're bombing the beejesus outta.
Russia's Railway System is largely decrepit

from a recent report:
At the same time, sections that can be regarded as bottlenecks account for 30 per cent of the length of the main railway freight routes. What is more, 60 per cent of the Railways’ fixed assets and 80 per cent of cargo wagons and diesel locomotives are decrepit. According to the Russian Railway Company’s own estimates, 30,000 new wagons would be needed per year, against the current 5 to 8 thousand wagons bought by the company yearly. The capacity of Russian ports to handle containers (20 million TEU) does not exceed the current capacity of the world’s largest container port in Singapore. These figures are part of the reason why Russia accounts for only less than one per cent of the cargo turnover between Europe and Asia and, according to the latest estimates, only five to seven per cent of the transit potential of the country.
Russian Railways estimates that a sector turnaround would require much larger investment, on the order of R10tr ($380bn) over the same period. This amount is too large for Russian Railways to finance internally, so the company plans to seek public and private investment.

#49 Posted by pavocavalry on January 27, 2009 3:10:48 am

pakis seem to have this deluded concept of a central asian gold mine with pakiland holding the key to unlocking it's riches..

have you ever looked at a map? the oil is in the west and is going over pipelines to europe..the gas is in the east and there's NO chance of a pipeline being built that takes it through pakiland...ZERO...especially in the current economic climate where financing is hard to come by..

oh...and your dream of gawadar being your meal ticket..not going to happen...

#52 Posted by pavocavalry on January 27, 2009 5:35:39 am

because a general wanted a promotion? surely you're confusing india with pakiland where generals can launch such things on their own...

in any case, india spends about 4$ for ever $ that pakiland spends in siachen...considering the state of the respective economies..well..do the math..

a good reason for indians to be in a place close to pakistani balochistan for possibly assisting BLA.other than that little advantage.a plan conceived by a fool through dangerous area , just like the stupid indian plan to occupy siachen where an indian general wanted to get promotion.
Agha Amin

Re: # 49 So PAVo what does India gain from this dangerous development of the road?

Re: # 48 PAVO implied army/military face. Commercial face has always been there in those lands for a long time - its ancient history (well almost).

The competition between iran and baluchistan will be interesting - Gwadar on this side and......

india does not need the new route for entral asia.it already has chah bahar zahidan mashhad sarakhs turkmenistan route .the new route via nimroz is for afghanistan and goes some very dangerous areas dokminated by taliban.
Agha Amin

Re: # 47
Dash...
Last week, India opened road from Iran to Kabul....I don't think that much investment will be in vein...I am sure, it will be used to transport Indian products into central asia and transport gas and oil from central asia....
The question is how much China can use its clout in Pakistan to divert the scheme...

If you remove turmoiled Pakistan from the scene, Iran is the best bet for Russia and India...

Re: # 45PAVO do you really think Pakistan would accept the fact that Indians are there in force in Afghanistan.

Re: # 45
Pavo...
Indian armed forces will not be permanently installed in Afg, unless it is required to safeguard it's own installations....IPKF was bad enough experience for India...

by helping NATO russia will increase its clout and ultimately russian and indian troops will enter afghanistan to assist NATO.thus NATO will be losing face and russians gaining ascendancy.already the russians dominate north afghanistan and have strong tentacles in pashtun areas also.gulabozai the leftist interior minister and ulumi the leftist corps commander got the highest number of votes from khost and kandahar respectively
Agha Amin

eastern boindary of ottoman empire was tabriz and caspean sae,so uzbekistan ,tajikisatn,kazakhastan and kirgizitan were never part of ottoman empire.these were independent khanates till annexed by russia in the period 1750 till 1880
Agha Amin

Re: # 20
URs..
Means there was no population/country in the present day Kazakstan etc. before Ottoman empire....Ottomans created the land,river etc... and sent arabs, turkish people there....

Re: # 20
"Russians occupied these states from Ottomon caliphate. So they shall be free again, it is just a matter of time."

Actually, they got freed when they were "occupied" by the Russians. Freed from the lies they'd been fed in the name of Islamic History. Now you want them to be chained once again? Shame.

Re: # 40
Pavo...
I have read an news article that Russia is willing to provide land route to NATO forces to reach Afghanistan. Is there any covert reason, why Russia is helping NATO in Afghanistan?

the russians are re-activating their bases in yemen , syria and libya.

massive amount of weapons are being smuggled in afghanistan from uzbekistan.the russian motorised division in tajikistan can be used in afghanistan.

the americans are not in afghanistan for charity.they are there for other reasons.

naturally when they do anything they will not announce it first,nor will they print any invitation cards.

this was an assessmenty made in 2005 and as i see things unfolding i am more inclined to believe it.

more than pakistan china and russia are in danger.

the chinese and russians realise it and are preparing for the showdown.
Agha Amin

it might be worth reading the following paper by a fellow of the Foreign affairs council http://pdfserve.informaworld.com/474109_731197571_780011883.pdf

esp the section starting on page three "engagement or entrapment".

worth reading. ( wiould recommedn it)

aga sahib,

All of us are not on the same page as you are! You have some inside information, which the rest do not have. AS a result this article does not make sense at all.

Please next time, add some context to it. All the current discussion is context free, and urstruly is drooling his corrosive acid all over the place and he, himself, might get dissolved in it.

The first question I have is: WTF are the yanks really doing in Afghanistan? Is it that they like to have picnics amongst the poppy fields at high altitudes?

#36 Posted by ahmedmadani

If you can turn hostile to USA who pumped in billions of wasteful dollars just to keep you alive all these days, what good gestures can the world expect from you?

For you the only useful slogan is Islamic Pakistan which suddenly turns out to be Secular Pakistan... and the flip flop continues.

Re: # 27 Excellent, cheap slogans and hypocracy.
Here is sixer . "one drop of Palestanian blood is more valable than the treasures of world" King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia on donating $1 billion to rebuild Gaza. The dribble continues.

Helping pakistan - advice from an indian
////////from dawn/////////

8,000 dead: is the world aware?


By Muhammad Ali Siddiqi

THE statistics are numbing and mind-boggling and should make any Pakistani sit up: in 2008 the country saw 2,148 terrorist attacks, which caused 6,825 casualties — 2,267 of them fatal.

Suicide attacks alone killed nearly 1,000 people — 967 to be precise — and wounded or maimed for life over 2,000. Of the 63 suicide attacks countrywide, the highest — 32 — occurred in the NWFP, killing and wounding over 1,000 Pakistanis; 10 in Punjab (201, dead, 580 injured), and 16 in Fata (263 dead, 497 injured).

Compiled by the Pakistan Institute for Peace Studies, these statistics do not include those who fell in ‘operational attacks’. According to the think-tanks’ report for 2008, more than 5,500 people were killed or injured in operational attacks (a minimum of 3,182 dead and 2,267 wounded).
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Sidiqui bhai,

No one cares about what is happening in pakistan because educated paki, who occupy chowk, do not care. For them, it is a case of on jihadi killing another jihadi. A state funded jihadic army, the paki army, in conflict with another people funded army. the laskers and others are supported by abdul pakis through their donations in mosques.

A fight between two jihadic armies is a religious ritual. There is no terrorism in pakistan, that is what the pakis and the world at large feel.
Take it from me sadiqui, that is the truth about pakistan. For a whole generation, when as children they have been trained to enjoy the killing o animals in their backyards, where the parent have taken them to see the killing of camels in the cities, a few jihadic killinmgs is only entertainment. Pl go to swat where the plac is ruled by the book, enjoy a few public flogging and a few beheading. Then you think, to find out ..can there be terrorism in a terror central country.

#27 Posted by pavocavalry

"while the middle classes enthusiastically supported Pakistan because they viewed the new state as one with greater opportunities of advancement for their class since the Hindus who were more educationally advanced were eliminated from the competition ! "

Do they realise their folly at least now?

The proud citizens of a FAILED STATE!!

#27 Posted by pavocavalry

For those of you who did not read Pakistani Madrassa History books.

This reminds me of a story "THE EMPEROR'S NEW CLOTHES" where the King was fobbed into believing that he was being dressed in the invisible dress. The king takes out the procession to display his NEW dress when all the civilians see him stark naked and would not have guts to point it out. Finally, a child cries out "hey, the king is nude!"


Hey, pavocavalry, go home and put on some dress so that you look decent.

Gandhi was a die hard Hindu for he believed in the philosophy of "whole world is one family" If he was of kind of your dirty Jinnah, true nationalist leaders like Abul Kalam Azad and "frontier Gandhi" Khan Abdul Gafaar Khan would not have come into his fold. Your so called Hindu leader Gandhi fell to the Hindu bullets for supporting Muslim population of Pakistan.

SHAME ON YOU.

Re: # 31 Stuka

I think I don't need to repeat the old adage "the enemy of my enemy is my friend and the friend of my enemy is my enemy". I don't think it will take a genius to devise the game plan: Hindu use Talibans (with arms and money to fight) the bigger enemy the napak fouj - as the napak fouj which constitutes the 100% of the state apparatus in pakistan, a weakend napak fouj will be ready to bargain kashmir - as the gandu musharaf and zardari have tried to do repeatedly. On the other hand the enemy # 2, the Taliban will be countered thru western crusaders. I would say at this time hindu has all his five in the ghee as the proverb goes.

The bigger picture is however different. Just as all the kafirs have pounced upon Muslims as a pack of dingos; the equal and opposite force is causing Muslim resistence to forment. A bigger wheel has been set in motion, obeying another law of nature i.e. the only constant in the world is the change itself.

"Hindus would be idiots par excellence not to take advantage of this situation. It is only common sense. You don't have to be a chanakya to figure that out. "

This is why Pakistanis do not understand Chanakya.

For the Hindu, the Tribal and the Pak Army are equal enemies. Taking advantage simply means not helping either side and staying out. India can and probably is taking advantage of groups who have secular grievances against Pak like BLA, MQM etc. Your own internal contradictions are resolving each other in FATA and SWAT.

"The Muslim League and most other parties of this time were dominated by the professional middle classes or landlords who had merely viewed religion as a slogan to galvanise the masses and never wanted a theological state !"

That is very interesting. from the beginninbg the muslims believed that jinnah was dishonest and all that he wanted was some personal powert and he used religion for that. The vast majority of the ordinary people who moved to pakistan did not realise the duplicity of jinnah, they wanted a true islamic country based on TNT, the hatred for hindus. Over the years, this aspiration of the pakis have come true, and hence the jihadis are the true followers of jinnah, that si who beleived in the words of jinnah, who took jinnah to be a honest man.

Thanks pavo.

Disappointed by police, people taking steps for self-defence
Monday, January 26, 2009
by Javed Aziz Khan

PESHAWAR: Measures for self-protection adopted by the vulnerable population of this troubled city are proving a better option against depending on police and agencies that are supposed to provide security to a common citizen.

Around three million residents of the provincial capital have been under a severe threat by criminal groups operating from within the city and surrounding rural and tribal areas. Kidnapping for ransom, highway robberies, dacoities, car-lifting and car-snatching broke all the previous records during the past few months, forcing the public to go for alternative arrangements instead of relying on police alone.

After the public started to believe the police force is no more able to provide them security against kidnappers and other criminals, they preferred to carry weapons for self-defence. The purpose was to avoid being kidnapped or robbed.

////////a nation born out of hatred for teh other, the kernal of TNT, cannot expect anything other than hatred among its people. The only hope for pakistan is to repudiate TNT and remove the photos from the public offices and consign that man to the same status as hitler.

Asghar warns of another martial law

Monday, January 26, 2009

News Desk

RAWALPINDI: Air Marshal (retd) Asghar Khan has expressed the fear that if the present ‘incompetent rulers’ did not leave the scene, the nation could witness another martial law, as the country is passing through a critical situation.

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Finally the paki military is worried, the lasker trial will lead to exposing the isi of planning the mumbai attack.

Another military take over seem to be the only way out.

Pakistan’s Islamic Factor

A.H Amin

History proves that religion has been repeatedly used by various classes to secure their personal or class aims and objectives ! Religion as a political factor to unite Indians against the British was introduced in politics by Gandhi ! Gandhi represented the Hindu middle and professional classes funded by the business classes who were western educated , outwardly secular in outlook but relied on Hindu religious symbols to achieve their political ends ! When Gandhi sidelined Mr Jinnah from main congress leadership after 1921-22 Mr Jinnah also abandoned his initial ideology of Indian nationalism based on constitutionalism and adopted Islam as his slogan ! In most of his political speeches Mr Jinnah stressed on the fact that the Indian Muslims were a separate nation and their unique religious and social practices entitled them to have a separate country ! This slogan was convenient and politically expedient to unite the pre 1947 Indo Pak Muslims against the Hindu dominated congress ! In 1947 while addressing the constituent assembly of Pakistan Mr Jinnah clarified that his idea of Pakistan was a secular state where Muslims and non Muslims would politically speaking only be Pakistanis and religion would be a private matter !
Mr Jinnah’s line of reasoning was not immediately questioned by the religious right since Jinnah was an indisputed leader but the question whether Pakistan was a secular state or an Islamic state was hotly debated in the constituent assembly of Pakistan from 1948 till 1956 ! The Muslim League and most other parties of this time were dominated by the professional middle classes or landlords who had merely viewed religion as a slogan to galvanise the masses and never wanted a theological state ! The landlords wanted to get rid of a Hindu money lending class and a land reform threatening congress party while the middle classes enthusiastically supported Pakistan because they viewed the new state as one with greater opportunities of advancement for their class since the Hindus who were more educationally advanced were eliminated from the competition !
The religious parties which had initially opposed Pakistan’s creation based on the idea that partition would only divide Indian Muslims now turned the table on the Muslim League by demanding that since the Muslim League itself declared that the Indo Pak Muslims needed a separate country to practice Islam , the new country must be based on the Islamic Sharia ! The non religious feudal and middle class Muslim Leaguers led by Liaquat Ali Khan initially outmanoeuvred the Islamists by moving the Objectives Resolution which paid lip service to Islam while preserving Pakistan’s initially envisaged secular ethos ! The Islamists however were not pacified and the 1953 Anti Qadiani riots proved that the Islamists were a force to be reckoned with ! However massive US aid from 1954 to 1965 marginalised the Islamists and strengthened the secular forces under the military dictator Ayub Khan ! In 1970 the Islamists were again unable to gain much except in NWFP and Baluchistan and the neo-socialist PPP and the nationalistic Awami League swept West and East Pakistan !
Islamists parties were strengthened in between 1971-77 because of the 1971 defeat and because of some of Mr Bhuttos policies ! In 1977 the religious right gained a new benefactor in shape of USA who viewed the Islamist dominated anti Bhutto Pakistan National Alliance as a safer bet than an anti US charismatic leader like Bhutto ! Thus the 1977 agitation and the Zia military coup of 1977 which toppled Mr Bhutto !
Pakistan’s military dictator decided keeping in view the immense political strength of the anti Zia PPP that his best bet to survive was use of Islam as a political slogan ! Thus Zia’s Islamisation measures and the various stunts and ploys employed by the military junta to demonstrate that Zia was a true soldier of Islam !
The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan further strengthened Islamist forces not only in Pakistan but at an international level ! Out of the Afghan War of 1979-88 emerged a promiscuous alliance of convenience like a Mutah marriage ! Financed by the CIA and the Saudis , with Islam as slogan , and Jihad as the modus operandi ! The Islamists because of sheer expediency became the darlings of Pakistan’s ISI and USA’s CIA ! Many billions were pumped to support the anti Soviet Jihad ! Islamist forces were able to consolidate themselves with lavish funds,advanced weaponry and elaborate organizational networks !
All changed after the Soviet withdrawal from Afganistan ! The islamists now became a liability for USA and the Pakistani elite ! The dirty war was over ! The Islamists had done their job ! Now they must not be allowed to reap the harvest ! Thus a reversal of policies !
By 1991 however the Pakistani elite realized that USA no longer needed them and as a result Islamist forces once again received a boost ! Both Nawaz and Benazir governments made many efforts to endear themselves to the USA but the USA snubbed both ! Islamist forces as a result re-organised ! In 1994-96 Pakistan’s government once again used religion as a slogan once the Afghan Talibans were cultivated ! For some time the Americans also saw the taliban as a safe bet for oil pipelines ! However by 1998 the Americans realized that the Talibans were not good enough puppets and must be removed ! During all this time Pakistan’s economy rapidly weakened because of US embargoes and economic policies ! The politicians and the military and intelligence bosses once again fell back on Islamist forces which were used to fight the bloody undeclared wars in Kashmir ! The Kargil adventure of 1999 was the highpoint in this drama once regular Pakistan Army volunteers were employed in the name of Islam with diasastorous consequences !
By October 1999 once Musharraf usurped power Pakistan was a sidelined state till the 9/11 incident which proved a heaven sent opportunity for Pakistan’s military junta just like the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan had done for Zia the junta !
Pakistan’s military junta now made a U turn and collaborated with the USA in fighting a war against Islamists ! In 1979-89 the same military junta was with the Islamists because it meant US aid ! Now the same military junta viewed the Islamists as persona non gratas simply because it meant getting US aid ! The same state continues till to date !
The chain of historic events above mentioned demand analysis ! From 1937 till 1947 the pre 1947 Muslim elite employed “Islam� as a slogan to galvanise the Muslim masses based on the emotional Pakistan slogan based on Islam ! Once Pakistan was achieved the same elite immediately made a U turn and declared that Pakistan was a secular state without justifying why 1 million Muslims were sacrificed to create a Muslim state where religion would be a personal matter ! Thus HAFEEZ Jullundhri noted with sarcasm ‘ Qaafle lut gaiy barbad ho gayay to kia hooa , Mutmain hain Qaafla Salaar apnay Kaam Say !
Between 1947 and 1976 religion was ditched as US aid came and the middle classes and the higher classes enjoyed great prosperity partly because of international aid and more because of elimination of the rich Hindus by mass genocide and control of evacuee property !
In 1977 religion was employed as a slogan because the middle and higher classes united with the Islamists simply because Mr Bhutto’s policies were a threat for the urban classes in Karachi ,Multan and Lahore because of a variety of reasons including nationalization,quota system,liberal outlook etc ! The USA financed the Islamists against Bhutto because they thought that the Islamists were asafer bet than Bhutto !
Between 1977 and 1989 Pakistan’s military junta used Islam as a tool because it suited their political and economic ends i.e because of the PPP as a political threat and the US military and economic aid in Afghan War !
Between 1989 and 1999 the Islamists once again received a boost because US stopped their aid and the civil and military elite once again picked up the slogan of Islam in danger !
Between 2001 and to date Pakistan’s military junta once again made a U turn and adopted an anti Islamist policy simply because it meant US economic and military aid !
The elections of 2002 strengthened Islamists forces thanks to the U turn of Pakistan’s military government after 9/11 ! The resultant sense of betrayal strengthened the Islamists morally ! The Islamists for the first time emerged as a strong constitutional force which challenged Pakistan’s military junta in Pakistan’s parliament ! Thus the MMA stand on LFO and against Musharraf’s US appeasing policies !
There is no doubt that a storm is gathering in Pakistan Iran Afghanistan and the Arab world which this time will not subside ! This storm is gathering because the Muslim elite has repeatedly used Islam as a convenient slogan , picked up at will to get aid from USA and abandoned at whim once it meant not getting US Dollars !
The Islamists are on a strong footing today ! This the start of a drama that would carry on in many acts ! Since religion was used as a cheap slogan by the elite , now it appears that the elite would have a harder time in manipulating the common man !
Inflation , rising population , unemployment is strengthening the Islamists forces in Pakistan and Afghanistan by leaps and bounds ! The US invasion of Iraq ahs further strengthened the Islamist forces since it has proved to be a spur for forces of resistance led by Islamists!
One Million dead in 1947 to create a country of Muslims !Two million dead in Afghanistan from 1978 till 2003 ! 100,000 dead in Kashmir from 1989 till to date ! 500 dead in Kargil ! The many thousands dead in Palestine,Algeria,Egypt , Iraq , all in the name of Islam ! To make the Islamic world a safer place for miltary dictators who order military volunteers in the name of Islam but pose as liberals to get US aid ! Kings and princes who gamble in Monaco and womanise in Paris but stage behaedings of small time drug dealers to give cheap thrills to the common man !
The day when the Muslim common man would question military dictators or kings about what they did to the aid money they got or the oil money they wasted in gambling or enjoying is not very far away ! Inshallah I hope !
In the next ten years a long bloody war would be fought between the Islamists and the opportunist forces in Muslim world which have agaian and again used Islam as a cheap tool to drug the masses ! Now the Muslim common man cannot be fooled or amused by cheap slogans or beheadings of petty criminals ! Now they want the heads of their rulers who have used Islam in the most Machiavellian manner for achieving their cheap personal and dynastic ends ! This the decade of the decisive war between Islamists and anti Islamists ! This war will not be won by superior weaponry or cheap slogans ! This war will be fought in the shadows , covertly and more motivated forces would finally carry the day ! Many Roman Empires and many great dynasties would be destroyed in the process ! When the common man fearlessly snipes at the US soldiers in Baghdad or when the common man defies Rangers and so many other military entities and goes on with suicide bombings , wars can no longer be won by conventional forces with better weapons bu t weaker hearts ! The human heart is the most decisive weapon and the USA alienated it after 9/11 !




Agha Amin

to be specific the USA was kicked out from Karshi Khanabad Airbase at Uzbekistan.
Agha Amin

The so called pan islamic brotherhood is just one big humbug to deceive their own wretched populations. What better example than the inablilty of the Pakistanis to keep the Muslims of the Eastern wing in their fold.

i am not interested in the nonsensical interacts , typical of chowk.

however mr urstruly u need to brush up ur knowledge:---

its not kozakistan,its a name that u invented,US does not have bases in kozakistan but in Kirgizistan , and at Manas Air Base near Bishkek (old Frunze).

the massacre of 6000 that u talk about was in uzbekistan and not kozakistan.

Kazakhastan has remained the most peaceful as it has the highest number of Russians.
Agha Amin

Re: # 22

Please replace Kozkistan with Uzbekistan. The said massacre is called Massacre of Andijan and year was 2005.

Kozakistan has its own story.

Re: # 13

Until 2002 US had Airbasis is Kozakaistan. In that year the subjugated Muslims in the state rose up against the Russian backed puppet regime in peaceful protests in capital city. The puppet regime like that in Pakistan responded with machinegun fire - close to 6000 died - no wounded. The soldiers of puppet regime took pains to check every fallen wounded and shoot them in the head. It was kind of what hindu army did to Kashmiri long marchers last september. If you think that such attrocities can be forgiven and forgotten then either you are an idiot or a channakya.

Re: # 18

Hindus would be idiots par excellence not to take advantage of this situation. It is only common sense. You don't have to be a chanakya to figure that out.

Re: # 16

There is no tradition of Central Asian States being part of Russia. For the past 1400 years these states were either sovereign Sultanates or part of one or the other of Muslim Calipahets. Russians occupied these states from Ottomon caliphate. So they shall be free again, it is just a matter of time. And yes they will form the most significant part of Pan Islamic Confederation - Inshallah. You hindus have a bad habbit of making every occupation a tradition.

allah's army in action...

HOPE & FEAR: In limbo: Fata’s displaced thousands

Text and Photos By Huma Yusuf

“We didn’t risk losing our lands to the Taliban�

Attired in a velvet shalwar kameez sprinkled with gold sequins across its floral pattern, Ameena looks incongruous amongst the grey light and sullied white tents at Katcha Garhi. She explains that she left her home village of Kausar in Bajaur Agency in a rush during a celebration associated with the holy month of Ramazan. “The bombing started and some nearby houses were demolished,� recalls Ameena. “We didn’t think -- we just left.�

Ameena confirms that militants affiliated with the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan had taken up residence in her village before the government launched a military operation in Bajaur. But she also insists that the military operation caused more havoc in her life than the Taliban ever did.

“When the Taliban first came, we shied away from them because they were strangers in our village,� she says. “When they came around to our houses, we would hide our men from them and wouldn’t even give them water. No one was in favour of them and we didn’t want to risk losing our lands to them.�

The sentiment towards the Taliban gradually evolved, however. Ameena explains that people warmed to them over time because they promoted Islam. “They also never did anything against women and children,� she says. “They never forced themselves into our houses.�

Her resigned tone changes when she starts describing the military operation that began in August 2008 in Bajaur Agency. “Our lives were going along as normal, and then suddenly there were aerial raids all the time. We were so scared, we couldn’t eat. We were in constant tension about the army showing up so we didn’t till our lands. After a week or so, we were suffering from hunger and thirst while our elders fell sick. It was when our neighbour’s house was crushed by heavy artillery that we decided to leave for Peshawar. The army caused more trouble for me than the militants ever did.�

“No one was ever scared of the Taliban�

Azka Khanum, from Bhai Cheena in Bajaur, agrees with the sentiment that life was bearable under the Taliban, but destroyed by the Pakistan Army’s military operation.

She insists that there were no Taliban in her village. “There was some talk that the Taliban had come to Bhai Cheena, but we never saw them physically and there was no threat from them,� says Azka. “Once in a while, someone would drop pamphlets in our courtyards that said that women should cover themselves properly. Since, by custom, we already do purdah, we didn’t mind that they were correcting us. Those of us women who used to walk in the fields started to become more careful, but no one was ever scared of the Taliban. They never did anything forceful.

“The government said the Taliban were bad,� adds Azka, “but we didn’t have any issues until the military operations started.� She remembers how bombing began one evening without any prior warning, forcing her family to hire a car at a day’s notice to flee the village.

“The government isn’t targeting the Taliban,� says Azka, her voice raised. “We don’t hear about any Taliban deaths. We’re the only victims.� As she speaks, Azka apologises for her tone and insists that she doesn’t favour the Taliban over the government. “We’re just caught in the middle -- we want both the Taliban and the government security forces out of our village.�

“I’m not sure who’s fighting who�

Yahya Abdullah, a public school teacher who also hails from Bhai Cheena, shies away from black and white categorisation emphasising that the situation in the tribal areas is more complicated than it seems. “I’m not sure who’s fighting who,� he says. “All I know is that I’ve been made a refugee in my own country.�

Like others from his village, Yahya is hard-pressed to complain about the Taliban. “They didn’t do anything wrong in our village,� he says. “They’d only take action against criminals. Most importantly, they’d deal with anyone who seized lands -- if someone had an ongoing land dispute, the Taliban would intervene and implement the community’s solution.�

The only thing Yahya feels was suspicious about the Taliban was their interest in stocking weapons. “There were always weapons in our village -- people keep their own at home -- but never so many as there are now. We used to ask each other, ‘Where are all these weapons coming from?’�

“The Taliban didn’t start the fighting�

To illustrate how confusing the war between the military and the militants is for residents of the tribal agencies, Yahya’s brother Mohammad recalls the day the Pakistan Army arrived in Bhai Cheena.

“I was walking down the road, and I saw that the army had arrived, being led by a tank. A local Taliban commander approached the army officers and asked them to retreat. When the forces did not withdraw, the Taliban made an announcement on the mosque’s loudspeaker telling the army to withdraw without destroying local homes and shops or offending women and children.

“Within seconds, the army started shooting and helicopters started bombing. The Taliban then began to fight the government forces, and the only thing that stopped this clash was a downpour.

“I’m a simple man, but from what I understand, the Taliban didn’t start the fighting. They were trying to save our village but the army didn’t listen.�

“I just want it to stop�

Hayat Khan, a young man with a henna-red beard from Khar in Bajaur Agency, cares less about who initiated the clash between militants and government forces. “I just want it to stop so that I can go home,� he says.

Like Yahya, though, Hayat stresses that the unfolding in scenario is tricky to resolve. He recalls what happened when his village formed a lashkar to drive out the Taliban in the hope that their absence would keep the Pakistan Army away too. “Our plan didn’t work,� he despondently admits. “The Taliban began attacking the lashkar instead of the government forces and so we ended up with a bigger mess of three-way fighting.�

Despite having experienced the “mess of three-way fighting,� Hayat does not think that Fata residents can be involved in plotting a solution to the tribal predicament. “The Taliban commanders and the army officers should meet and find a solution,� he says. To justify the exclusion of tribal residents, he explains that their maliks (village heads) could not be relied on to act as effective representatives. “Forget about our maliks,� he says. “They’ve either been targeted by the Taliban or they’ve joined the Taliban for money.�

#12 Posted by pavocavalry on January 24, 2009 10:10:31 pm



already USA and Indians are successfully using the tribals against pakistan army.


that's straight from the same place ijaz gul got his indo-israeli radar in kyrgystan being used to jam the communications of allah's army...

the famous think tank PIOMPA....

#10 Posted by Urstruly on January 24, 2009 6:59:15 pm


I do not know about Russia but China seems to have a very different approach in dealing with the so called "Islamic Extremism".


you think china is the model of how countries should deal with muslims?

funny..i do too...

I get a feeling that Pakistani elites will try to replicate Afghanistan model in Central Asia. Don't know what the various states are, but the ones closest to Pakistan and most amenable to Islamic indoctrination should be most heavily targeted by Pakistan.

In that, Tablighis should form the best and the first form of Pakistani attack. That seems logical given that Central Asian states have traditionally been part of the Soviet Union, and thus unlikely to be much interested in going down the Afghanistan route unless they are first Islamized sufficiently, by teaching them Islam.

If we think in terms of core competencies, THAT is Pakistan's core competence. And Pakistani elite will use that competence to the fullest.

Helping pakistan - advice from an indian

///////// from jang////
Our brilliant police
Sunday, January 25, 2009
Whenever a man and woman marry for love and flee to Karachi, their virtually illiterate relatives are easily able to trace and kill them, but the police are not able to locate any of the numerous mobile phone snatchers or car thieves in the city. Does anyone know the reason for this?

Shakir Lakhani

Karachi

/////
Shakir bhai,

Pakistan is an islamic country, and any one marrying for what you call as love is haram, it is against the book. Hence the police help the relatives to trace the couple and kill them, which by the way is not a crime in pakistan, as per the hoodood laws. The laws of pakistan is based on the book, and if you read the book, there is no mention of mobile phones or what should be done to the mobilr phone snatchers.

Hope my explanation helps you understand the situation so that you can live in peace.

RAW trying to separate Balochistan from Pakistan’
Sunday, January 25, 2009
ISLAMABAD: The leading newspaper of Sri Lanka, Daily Mirror, in its editorial has criticised the role the Indian intelligence agency (RAW) is playing in the regional countries to destabilise them. The editorial has specially referred to Pakistan.

It said: “Among its (RAW’s) most ambitious operations that are currently underway, is the move to separate Balochistan province from Pakistan by supporting (the) Balochistan Liberation Army.�
/////////////////

at last some one is listening.

"Russia however is different. The battle hardeened UZbecks in Afghanist are when going to go back all of the Muslim central Asia is going to finally break free of the shackles and cjains of the russian empire. The proof of this assertian is that Russia in its imperial hubris is allowing central asian Muslims to get trained in AZfghanistan, thinking that it is saving its occupation in Muslim central Asia but they are forgetting the law of nature that every action has an erqual and opposite reaction.... "

More nonsense one has not read on the Chowk. Uzbeks and war hardened? In which battle did the Uzbeks get hardened? The ex Soviet Republic of Uzbekistan is a dictatorship which does not brook any challenge least of all from the wahabists. The ruthless suppression of Andijan revolt is just an example.
A few years ago when the Uzbekistan govt realised that a lot of Paistanis were trying to foment trouble in their country through the local clergy, all Pakistanis were bundled out of Uzbekistan in a jiffy. Even Uzbekistan Airways stopped flying to Pakistan to deter the Pakistanis from coming to Uzbekistan.
Many armchair strategists from Pakistan are sold on the formation of the great pan Islamic federation of which Central Asian states and Pakistan would for a part.
Central Asian peoples are of Turkic descent and their languages are Turkic. They are as distinct from the Desi Pakistanis as the Algerians are from the Nigerians. They are firmly aligned to Russia primarily due to historical and cultural ties and partly due to the security this friendship affords them against Mullas from Afghanistan Pakistan Madaris.
If they look beyond Russia, they would like to emulate Turkey because of its modernist and secular polity and social structure.
No wonder the Americans are going to find an alternate supply route to Afghanistan through the CIS. Any progressive Muslim country will do its bit to ensure that the Mullas of Afghanistan and Pakistan are kept as far away from their own borders as possible.

the fact of the matter is that world over muslims are growing fastest,they are poorest and they will be used one way or other , either USA will use them against china or china and russia will use them against USA.not because the russians or chinese like muslims but to survive.cheapest soldiers in this world are the muslim masses.

already USA and Indians are successfully using the tribals against pakistan army.off course the tribals dont know who is using them .they think its a splinter group of al qaeda.low intensity war is complicated.
Agha Amin

Hard to predict if afghans will decide have ethinic states. Russian connection earlier got big taste of Power for nonpathans. There will not be old order as before and adjacent same ethinic states may encourage different nation asJinnah did if good seperation leaders emmerge.
It appears Obama not much different than Bush , big disappointment setting in peoples mind. Kind of dash for all optimism with pilotless airmachines attacking poor people and terrorists.America will get tired after 15 yeas and will go home. President Musharraf id doing servicing reminding americans on american soil saying pakistan needs to be more compensated that meger 10 Billion dollars. It appears Mr. Z is useing general to give to message and general does not mind geting used which brings more aid.With his depature all army has lost desire of fighting spirit as they feel insulted by treatent given to elected president.

I partially agree with the Hindus below that both China and Russia would not want anti-American forces to win, however, both have vested interests in lkeeping US trapped in this region. There are no two opinions that for western crusaders this is an unwinable war. The war benefits China because every penny that US spends today whther it is a piece of bread that an american child eats or a smart bomb that kills 10 of Afghan por Pakistani children come from borrowed money from China. For Russia, a weakened US is in its best interest since what Americans have done to them in east Europe very recently needs payback.

I do not know about Russia but China seems to have a very different approach in dealing with the so called "Islamic Extremism". Chinese are neither ideological nor they have a god - all they have is business interests. As compared to Soviet Russia, china opened up rest of the world for its Muslim community in early 80s when 1000s of Chinese Muslims were allowed to conduct business and perform Hajj going through Pakistan. The so called Muslim uprising in Xinxiang province is not for autonomy or shariah but it is for economic parity with Chinese Eastern provinces. Since Pakistan has opened up a conduit for chinese trde through Gawader the people in Xinxiang and the prime beneficieries for all business and trade that happens through that route. The Chinese response to bombing in this province during olympics is indictive of the political approach of Chinese rather than an American approcah of kill all.

Russia however is different. The battle hardeened UZbecks in Afghanist are when going to go back all of the Muslim central Asia is going to finally break free of the shackles and cjains of the russian empire. The proof of this assertian is that Russia in its imperial hubris is allowing central asian Muslims to get trained in AZfghanistan, thinking that it is saving its occupation in Muslim central Asia but they are forgetting the law of nature that every action has an erqual and opposite reaction....

Helping pakistan - advice from an indian

The pakis are always hoping that some one will help them, or they hope to get the geogrphic rent, by claiming that just the location of pakistan should be enough for others to cough up some money. The supplies to nato has been one of them, the pakis trying to black mail the nato. Now the russians have come forward and the indian road through iran is also operational.

All this sets the stage for the nato to say, pakis get stuffed, we are calling inb the B52s over fata.

That is the only option available to nato, the same mechanism that drove the al quida out of afghanistan. The b52s and daisy cutters are the only ones that can call the bluff of the pakis that the terrain is what is preventiong them from taking out alquida.

This will force the alquida to m,ove into the paki cities and there after the resizing of pakistan will not be far away.

from dawn of today

Russia to allow cargo for Afghanistan


MOSCOW, Jan 23: President Dmitry Medvedev has said that Moscow is ready to help stabilise the situation in Afghanistan by allowing the United States and others to ship cargo intended for coalition forces in the war-torn country across Russian territory.

During his visit to Uzbekistan on Friday, Mr Medvedev said that Russia was also prepared to help international efforts to combat drug-trafficking and terrorism in Afghanistan.

He voiced hope that US President Barack Obama’s administration would do better than its predecessors in stabilising Afghanistan.

“Let’s hope the new US administration will be more successful than the previous one in dealing with the Afghan settlement,� he said on television.

Mr Medvedev’s comments appeared to reflect the Kremlin’s wish to mend ties with Washington, which deteriorated under the administration of George W. Bush.

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Tragedy of a nation.

When india provided the info, paki dismissed them as not evidence. Now the very same paki govt is taking a different tune. It is sad that a nation created for islam will be so lost in governing....let me check the book, one should not forget that every PM and president takes oath telling that pakistan will be rules by the book and the sharia. There in lies the problem. The book doesnot give any instruction on how to respond to a dossier.

That is the very reason why all the islamic countries are so bad in governing and in diplomacy. That is teh reason why the likes of pakistan never promote education. They only promote madrassas.

from dawn of today///////
Pakistan taking Indian dossier "extremely seriously"

Probe is on and results will come soon, says Gilani

Islamabad: Pakistan is taking India's dossier on the Mumbai terror attacks "extremely seriously" and will "have to act fast" to complete its probe, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani has said.

"We are taking it [the dossier] extremely seriously, and we have already started [an] investigation and the results will come soon," he told the Financial Times daily in an interview.

Mr. Gilani also hinted that Pakistan could consider extraditing terror suspects to India if bilateral relations were normalised.

Replying to a question whether he would ever agree to extradition of suspects to India, the Premier said: "So far there is no such thing. But that depends on our normalisation of relations."

Pak ready to amend anti-terror laws: Gilani
25 Jan 2009, 0054 hrs IST, TNN
Print Email Discuss Share Save Comment Text:
NEW DELHI: Pakistan Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani has said that Pakistan is ready to amend its anti-terror laws to facilitate the prosecution
of accused in terror related acts which take place outside the country.

Gilani made the statement in an interview to `Financial Times' in response to a question about Pakistan's response to the Mumbai killings.

/////////////////

the humiliation of a nation continues.

and who ia marking red flags, this red-flagger should be flogged or banned...

what was it? a movie plot?

amazing, instead of thinking how to correct things, people are dreaming wild about how they can get some support to spread their killings... And so clueless to dream that China will help Islamists to confront USA...

such wild dreams do not reflect healthy state of mind...

Agha:

1. You have not addressed the most fundamental question, "but why the U.S. would remain engaged in that region?".

2. Regarding nuclear, there are ways to take care, one of them is let Pakistan drop it on someone, sometime and somewhere, if India is smart it will not let it happen in India; or get Israelis take care of it. Latter is now possible through Bagram base.

3. Russia and China getting involved in your fashion is Islamists dream not strategy.

4. The U.S. has limited strategic interest in that region, other than taking care of terrorism. If it cannot get Pakistan to solve it, the U.S. will use it. The U.S. gains nothing from long term presence. It, like the British earlier, will create "Chaotic Buffer" and leave it to warring factions to take care of each other and thus maintain the Chaotic Buffer.

5. Soon it might need Taliban breakaways more than Pakistan army for this purpose. This breakaway will happen in Obama administration. You, like I will witness it.

6. It will maintain carrot ($$$, and Viagra) available for the breakway also, and stick (drones) for others.

7. Can talibs remain united under all circumstances? This is a question. History of the region does not suggest such long lasting unity.

"It is naive to think that the USA came to Afghanistan to deal with the Talibs."

Fine! But without explaining why the US is in Afghanistan, the whole options mentioned for all countries are meaningless.

What is so important in Afghanistan that the US would keep its occupation at all costs thus triggering a major upheaval in the area that no power in the world would be able to manage.

Why would the US escalate the problems in the area considering the widening financial crisis in the US which would eventually impact US spendings outside the US. Defense or otherwise.

Another nonsense of an article.

Both China and Russia know the dangers of allowing the islamists to be successful in Afghanistan, i.e. the islamists would then move to causing trouble in provinces of China and Russia which have significant muslim population. The islamists have a global agenda so they wouldn't stop with Afghanistan. I hope Iran learns the lesson too, that the Sunni extremists would then gun for Iranian blood.