In Search of Political Will: Fight Against Militants in Swat

A dear friend, PhD in AI at CMU, who grew up on a Hare Krishna commune conveyed that

-the basic problem with Abrahamic religion is the book and emphasis on reading.

- Any human creation has limited capabilities. The written word cannot be panacea for all levels of consciousness.

- When it is imposed on locals in alien language with alien cultural trappings then it is merely subjugation of local culture.

When I asked him why do you carry the Japa mala and do this sanskrit (BTW he was German) names of gods who I think are not local to you, he answered that

- the Japa I did from my child hood and the real purpose is to lose even "wording" of the chant ...
- this frees my mind so that inspirational creative thoughts can take root ...
- it makes me blissful (right thought at right time and place), confident and free.

"Every human society chooses for itself a set of values according to which they live. Some take it from religion (like equality of all men who are born, which can be readily understood through abrahmic religions), and some take it from their own historic experiences. So what is wrong if a society combines religion with culture to arrive at its code of life."

Lot of verbiage to camouflage real exploitive imperialistic g.ndugiri. It's the same Abrahamic Ga.dugiri which sold human slaves on the city chowks and priced them according to the size of their boobes in case of females.

When this was happening circa 345 AD onwards in Abrahamic land a village idiot or a retard (pl listen apana desi G Murarilal Lakhanpurkar aka Murad) with Kshudra lineage could transform himself with right understanding of spirituality in the company of a Guru into Mahakavi Kalidas.

Weak desis coopted with imperialistic forces to rewrite their history. I have not read the article but I am sure it must be yet another prose of Darbari Ga.dugiri. That is why I am telling Pinkus and Laddus to bring out the truth of who were ancestors of Iqbal and Dracula MAJ.

Bakiland slowly will turn into Somalia when it will be deprived of gas fields of Baluchistan. Political Islam need to be vanquished for humanity to survive.

Ghajis (talibanis) are merely ganj-is, they can be taken care of with drones but real g.ndus are the so called moderates... they are actually moderators who direct the Jihadi fanaticism to the soft targets such as Hindus of India. You need to squeeze them economically.

Re: # 21 Bhatti sahib

[Keep in mind that whereever Islam went, it allowed the locals to keep their values intact. You and a billion hindus is a good example of that. You would not have been here if there was no tolerance in Islam.]

Bhatti sahib, needless to say, perhaps you expect folks like I to become "tahey-dil-se-shukraguzaar" to folks like you -- and perhaps you may feel a justification for it – after all we perhaps would not be around had not the Mughals (and others) “allowed� the seventy percent of the population (or so) to remain Hindus and “only� converted thirty percent of them (although in increasing numbers over time).

Somehow, however, folks like I do not share that sense of gratitude that you expect us to feel and if I were to guess, my ancestors did not feel that way either (leaving aside the issue of logistics which would have made a hundred percent conversion VERY difficult).

Instead, in some ways, I feel gratitude toward those ancestors of mine who were able to survive the onslaught of the Islamists on their religion, their culture and their very lives! It could not have been an honorable life for them – living under those conditions – made into the underclass in their very own land!

The courageous of any land are those folks who – when faced with difficult odds – face those odds squarely. It requires real courage to face one’s own limitations and the courage to admit when wrongs are committed and it requires the courage to correct your course when you are clearly off-course.

In my view, the courageous folks were not the ones who capitulated to the sword and converted in order to save their lives.

The courageous ones were those who GAVE their lives without such capitulation – and in the process, although many of them lost their lives, they retained a bit of their honor!

My ancestors were courageous folks who kept their religion because they believed in their religion! Did yours?!

Many others did not!

I have no beef with “your� Middle-Eastern culture and “your� Middle-Eastern lifestyle and all the “fringe benefits� that it may have brought to you all. However, what “you� brought to the subcontinent was an army of invaders – make no mistake about it.

Those who are invaded do not automatically see virtue in what the invaders do (the act of invasion). So forgive us for not seeing any virtue in it.

It is a bit like the Iraqis not seeing virtue in US invasion (even though, unlike the Middle-Eastern invasion of the Indian Subcontinent, the US invasion was at least motivated, even misguidedly, by the desire to free up those folks from a cruel dictatorship).

No, the Iraqis did not see any virtue in the US invaders!

Guess what, people like I do not see any virtue in the acts of aggression your great-great-great uncles may have perpetrated a long while ago. If you had common sense and some humanity in you – it would be a matter of shame for you, too – not of misplaced pride!

And as I pointed out in #18, there is a lot of hypocrisy in the positions taken by the “liberal� Pakistanis – most of which comes clothed in words of ambiguity. I consider your #21 a shining example of the same ambiguity.

Consider the Swat debacle nothing more or nothing less than a simple reenactment of that same old routine of invasion! Those of us in Hindustan were not “pure� enough in the eyes of your ancestors – perhaps YOU are not pure enough in the eyes of these Swat folks!

If you praise the deeds of one set of invaders – consistency demands that you praise the deeds of the other - who are merely repeating that same very ages old routine - in equally fulsome ways! Otherwise, you are being inconsistent to the point of dishonesty.

Unfortunately, Pakistani “liberals� are a highly inconsistent lot, IMHO!

I wish you and yours good luck in surviving the onslaught of the latest band of “purists� from Swat! I am sure my ancestors felt EXACTLY the same way when THEY were under attack by their contemporary versions of “purists�!

Re: # 6 KR Bhatti

You should educate yourself before you further corrupt the case you are building to safeguard the interests of a corrupt ruling elite. You write:

"The land is a state property and it is within the discretion of the state to utlize this land to built mosques or whatever. It does have the authority to destroy the mosques and built it somewhere else."

Lets assume for the sake of argument that at the time 8 mosques were destryoyed in Islamabad and Jamiah Hafsa Scool girl massacre took place, Pakistan was not being ruled by a maglomaniac dictator and the rights of state and the people were being governed by a constitutional social contract. In that case the Constitution of Pakistan would be the reigning document to exercise the said rights. But the Constitution of Pakistan with its first claus attributes land to the people not to the government. The law of Eminent Domain in Pakistan exists as a statutory law and not a constitutional right of state. If government had to exercise the law of Eminent Domain to destroy those mosques then there is legal procedure to do that. Government has no blanket right to enfore Eminent Domain by using full force of brute state machinery and massacre thousands in the process.

Like I said Bhatti, you shouldn't have brought this angle into the equation. The corrupt ruling elite and haramkhor fouj has no moral and legal legs to stand on this issue.

As for the the assertion that Mullah need to contest election and change governing laws - I don't know under whivh rock you live but constitution of Pakistan has every law that has been demanded by so called Mullahs. The innocent school girls of Jamiah Hafsa laid down their lives while reminding corrupt ruling elite that it is them who need to excerice the constitution to its letter. That was all the fight was about.

Look, before the massacre of Jamiah Hafsa the corrupt ruling elite was ruling Pakistan just the way they wished it. People had been tolerating their corrupotion, greed, and lawlessness for decades and everything was business as usual. The massacre of Jamiah of Hafsa was the declaration of war of a corrupt state authority on the people of Paksiatn. That massacre is the pivotal point in our history; nothing will be the same from now on.

"Every human society chooses for itself a set of values according to which they live. Some take it from religion (like equality of all men who are born, which can be readily understood through abrahmic religions), and some take it from their own historic experiences. So what is wrong if a society combines religion with culture to arrive at its code of life."

Lot of verbiage. It's the same Abrahamic Ga.dugiri which sold human slaves on the city chowks and priced them according to the size of their boobes in case of females.

Dear Bhatti Sahib

Well written article with all the good intentions but like other writers Sir forgive for saying this you too have fallen in the same trap by using Islamic history to make your case. Allow me to explain.

You correctly identified the Kharaji movement as being one of the first rebellions based on differing interpretations. It was not just a simple matter of difference of opinion and they lived apart, according to the Kharaji followers there was no room for differences and if any person did not agree with their interpretation then that person and his family were Waajib ul Qathal,they could be killed nd their entire family killed or taken as slaves. Reason why I state this example is to make the case that there will always be fringe groups who claim superiority and some would also espouse the use of violence. Since this particular ideology has survived the passage of time and many incomplete campaigns its safe to assume that it has a high probability of surviving this new wave of opposition.

Religion needs to be eased out of our political, economic and social lives, that is the only viable option. If we continue to clash with others based on religious differences or argue with the other in their chosen language of religion then we will commit the same mistake made by others and this phenomena will continue to survive and thrive in areas where they find refuge.

Ana writes in her ilog "I have never denied that Pakistani Christians are second-class citizens. They are."

Nonsense. There are no "citizens" in Pakistan how can there then be "second class citizens"? Pakistan is composed of the Army command, some sprinklings of feudal/industrial elite that have made pacts with them, and the mass of slaves, most of them Muslim, few Christians....

Have a nice day,

TNITC masadi

Please do not disgrace prostitutes by associating them with the assorted thugs: the US elite, Al Qaeda and the Pakistan Army....

Arjun-39 died in his toilet yesterday but was immediately recreated as Arjun-40.

What entered his mouth during that thirty-ninth death has come out in his interact (see #43).

Kulharee saab,

First of all as a society with more than a thousand years history, it is advisable to talk from a vintage point that is undisputed. Talk of Kharijis and their treatment is such a point.

As far as Bangladesh is concerned, remember initially there demands were provincial autonomy, financial independence, Respect for their culture and so on, which were right and just demands. They were suppressed by our geniuses and that is when they picked arms in self defence, and this self defence ultimately demanded full freedom. So the monopoly of violence concept cannot be applied here..

Hope that this explains...

Bhatti Sahib, a very well argued case for how to handle the militancy problem. In case of militancy the State might have a monopoly (you also term undisputed right) to use violence, but can this be applied to political problems such as the liberation movements (e.g., Bangladesh, Kashmir, etc.). Reading your article a reader may get an impression that somehow the genocide of 3 million Bengalis was permitted under the historic precedents set in 7th Century Arabia. I think by looking backwards that far to a society that is so different from ours, it may create more problems than we wish to solve. Today’s problems should be solved in today’s context and not what Hazrat Ali did in Kufa.

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Trichmir,

I have never withheld my views regarding the geniuses of our army who created them in first place. But the thrust of my article is to move ahead. No doubt that these genarals should be brought to justice and I have written about it in my previous article. But this does not mean that the monster, which is on loose should be forgotten as its threat is immediate one. And they are kharijis, because of their ideology and not because of who taught them (though they should also be held accountable as I said above).

No, the real prostitute is the Pakistani Army and all these Jihadis her illegitimate children who are just pursuing their mother's profession. Do people still remember how one great General of Pak army Hamid Gul, alongwith his Arab buddy Osama, had tried to capture Jalalabad and the whole operation was ended in a total disaster? People will still mock him by calling him Fateh Jalalabad. All these Arab and other foreign "Mojahedeens" were brought to Afghanistan by the CIA, Pak army and the Saudis-not by the Pashtuns or Afghans.

The fact is very simple, these Jihadis were sent in the army run Madrasas throughout NWFP and FATA where they were taught religious intolerance, hatred against the people of all other faith, bigotry and every evil ideology in order to use them for army's own purpose. Now they are just doing what they were taught, so what is all this bitching and moaning about.

Don't blame the Arabs or even the Jihadis who in my opinion are only a victim of the policies of their own country. Blame the state for destroying the lives of its hundreds of thousand of civilians, blame the state that instead of giving them proper education, jobs and other facilities it used them as gun fodder.

Your example of Kharjis is irrelevant here because Hadrat Ali or the state had at least not created them in the first place. First the state should apologise the whole nation for its crimes that it committed against its citizens, esp. those of Pashtunkhwa.

Sorry for my not so perfect English, we were not taguth english in our Madarsa.

The story of Dulla has been poetically treated by many, and has been written in style known as Saddaan (similar to Mirza by Peelu and Bhagwan Singh). The above incident is thus narrated: The term Mirza, is used for a member of a royal family or a member of the highest aristocracy. ... Binomial name The Vann (Punjabi:ون or ਵਣ) or, jar in Sindhi language, J�l or Peelu in Hindi language (Salvadora oleoides) is a small bushy evergreen tree found in India and Pakistan. ... Captain Bhagwan Singh (1916 – 1995) was a diplomat, a radical student leader, army officer, Indian Administrative Service officer, High Commissioner of India to Fiji and a devoted social worker. ...


Tera saandal dada maareya, ditta bhore vich paa, Mughlaan puthhiyaan khallaan laah ke bhariyaan naal hawaa.

Bhati ji,

Dulla Bhatti was a well known folk hero of Punjab who protected innocents from these Jehadi fanatical.......perhaps that answers why you oppose them......

But, remember time has come to fight physically against them like Dullah Bhatti and not sit at home........