Taliban Cloud Moves to Pakistan

#126 Goldfinger

[Not that I'm much into religious stuff...still its fallacious that you make sweeping statements like that...]

If I was a muslim (well, I'd be an "apostate" in a heartbeat, but anyways...), and I had any self-respect, instead of trying to fudge things out, I would challenge hindus on this forum on the FACTS. And have an actual argument. And let chips fall where they may.

But you are a Muslim. Deep down, you know that EVERYTHING is actually true. That mo did indeed do all the things he's accused of doing. That in India muslims did indeed do whatever they are alleged to have done. So you would avoid direct confrontation. And either 1) try to demonize whoever is accusing you guys of whatever (hate-monger, hateful, prejudiced etc. etc.), or 2) lie through your teeth or 3) kill the accuser, or 4) slink away to come back another day, when this particular accuser is gone.

It's par for the course for you muslims.

First, I was illegally detained by chowk staff for one post on the Pervez hoodbhoy article that was dead on accurate. The doctor, using his authority as "scientists", makes pronouncements as God's prophet, on social matters he knows absolutely nothing about and Bittersweet jumps to his defense touting "free speech" and calling me all sorts of names and gets away with it and then reduces it to a class fight thanks to Anil, about my education in the U.S, which for the most part besides the first year and a half was self financed working my butt off, the moron pronounces moral judgments. Nevetheless, you need to have some basic clue of how social institutions work, what the Pakistani social structure is, what patterns of power exist before you can, like the ignoramus doctor, make moral judgments and reduce Pakistan's ills to moral (or immoral) decisions of individuals. That is why the ignoramus doctor has no right to pronounce on anything social by a long shot just as much as a dhoti wearing witch doctor cannot cure TB.

Have a nice day, and if Chowk staff bans me again for this post, see you all in a week...

TNITC masadi

Ana writes in her ilog regarding a Pakistani Christian leader's claim:"After implementation of Joint Elections in 2002, the Christians have been booked under blasphemy law, dozens of Christians women have been kidnapped, raped and forcibly converted to marry Muslims, Pastors have been attacked, Churches have been desecrated and congregates threatened. There was no development budget for selected Christian parliamentarians, Christian youth was denied Jobs and silence prevailed on floors of houses. The Joint Elections ended our voice and democratic rights in Pakistan."

This is what is known in social scientific language as creating moral panics through threats of "random violence". Not only is it an exaggeration, the language shows clearly that this "leader" doesn't have a clue but supplements horrific examples, exaggerated numbers with language such as "dozens have been" etc. I would like to see one study, just one which uses scientific sampling methodology and shows that 1) Pakistani Christians have a higher unemployment rate than the average Pakistani, 2) They are incarcerated at a higher rate than the average Pakistani, 3) that they have a lower life expectancy than the average Pakistani, 4) that they have a higher mortality rate at various age levels than the average Pakistani...etc

I am sure your leader will lose his leadership appeal as well as his rhetorical BS once this study is done. A country where the very vast majority lives on less than $2 a day, showing that the government gives a damn about its people has no utility in maintaining religious divisions especially between Christians and Muslims other than it being used as fodder for foreign intervention....

TNITC masadi

In #130 read "Bittersweet jumps to his defense touting "free speech" and calling me all sorts of names and gets away with it "

as

Bittersweet jumps to his defense touting "free speech" and calling me all sorts of names and gets away with it, while PH is free to write articles and I was banned! Hypocrisy of the purest form from ignoramuses.....

masadi: I don't think criticism of my ilog was appropriate here in this space. I also think you missed where I said that we needed more intelligent people than him.

He is NOT my leader. I'm not a part of that group.

but thanks anyway for your comment.

Ref masadi #131

[This is what is known in social scientific language as creating moral panics through threats of "random violence". Not only is it an exaggeration, the language shows clearly that this "leader" doesn't have a clue but supplements horrific examples, exaggerated numbers with language such as "dozens have been" etc. I would like to see one study, just one which uses scientific sampling methodology and shows that 1) Pakistani Christians have a higher unemployment rate than the average Pakistani, 2) They are incarcerated at a higher rate than the average Pakistani, 3) that they have a lower life expectancy than the average Pakistani, 4) that they have a higher mortality rate at various age levels than the average Pakistani...etc]

Yo, masadi, in Lahore a bishop shoots himself in the head on the steps of the courthouse. In New Delhi, Bishop Davidson petitions the Indian Supreme Court asking for reservations for Dalit Christians a la Dalit Hindus and gets a sympathetic reception from the court.

Yet you Paki fcukers are crying hoarse about Indian Muslims (and Tamils, Assamese, Nagas, Bodos, Mizos, etc.) while demanding scientific evidence and statistically valid proof that Paki minorities are persecuted.

Yousuf Yohanna suddenly feels the urge to get his dick chopped off and start braying in Arabic. I don't think Azharuddin ever wanted to turn Hindu and start bathing in the Ganges river. In fact, the fcuker claimed that the only reason he was implicated in a match-fixing scandal was because he was Muslim... which was proved later and he was banned from cricket.

So, STFU.

Re: # 131

Masadi:

"...I am sure your leader will lose his leadership appeal as well as his rhetorical BS once this study is done. A country where the very vast majority lives on less than $2 a day..."

"1) Pakistani Christians have a higher unemployment rate than the average Pakistani, 2) They are incarcerated at a higher rate than the average Pakistani, 3) that they have a lower life expectancy than the average Pakistani, 4) that they have a higher mortality rate at various age levels than the average Pakistani...etc"

Only thing sure from the above is that you are so theoretical. And that you are impatient in criticizing and soon moving to hurling abuses.

You want to apply the matrix created for a richer and very different country or society as determinents of discrimination in a country where according to your own admission earning is $2 / day.

You cannot be serious.

Please do behave on this web-site, and have concrete and relevant points or counterpoints. We all would appreciate it, especially those who, like me, do not want to see you banned. Only you are responsible for your banning, so please do not go looking around for the others.

Ana:

Please do not buy into Masadi's frivolous agruments which are constructed foolish fundations at best. This confirms tha he cannot develop a matrix that would reflect the structure in Pakistan.

It is pathetic when a bishop bruns alive, or nun is raped or burned. Such societies do not need American matrix to determine hatred and discrimination.

anil saab:

I am not buying into anyone's arguments. I know quite a bit about what is happening there.

Masadi expressed his opinion. I'm not going to engage in any further discussion because as I said, this was not the appropriate space for that topic to be brought up.

Now, if he wants to talk about the Taliban. . that's more appropriate here, but since when has masadi been appropriate?

Re: # 130

Masadi sahib:

Masadi sahib:

Masadi (in #131) “...A country where the very vast majority lives on less than $2 a day...�

Masadi (in #130) “...a class fight thanks to Anil, about my education in the U.S, which for the most part besides the first year and a half was self financed working...�

Can you not see from the above your hypocrisy and attempts to cover up your upbringing, because you want to call others peon of the west, elite etc. etc.

How many people who live on less than $2 a day can pay for their ticket to Lahore or Karachi, let alone to the U.S., and pay for 1.5 years of living and educational expenses in the U.S.?

Please first learn to be honest to yourself, otherwise people see through you and through your abuses that shortly follow. Until then you cannot get your own respect, let alone from the others. Without which it is impossible to have intelligent debates.

Ana:

You had said that you do not want to discuss iLog, therefore, I did not. I found it moving and felt it was tinged with sadness and love. Tragedy is that such is the situation of minorities in all societies where poorer section of majority must compete with minorities for living. I respect your feelings and desire to not discuss it.

anil saab:

Thank you.

It's not that I didn't want to discuss it at all, it's that I didn't want to discuss it on Beena's board, where as usual, there are tangents. I didn't want to add to the tangents or take away from the topic here. :) I figure that's part of what my Chowk inbox is for.

but thank you again!

tahmed, make sure you are using reason and brain when you pretend to be serious or intelligent. I more or less stopped replying these things as I thought i repeated them often, but seems those were not enough. Do you want to compare hinduism and islam based on what you said?


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#85 Posted by tahmed32 on February 19, 2009 3:41:30 am
#84 Flatiron: So, you say hindus created hinduism. What led the hindus to create these gods then?

And you continue that hinduism is flawed as hindus are a people. Fine. How flawed do a people have to be to create the caste system (where the religion itself adds insult to injury by saying the lowest castes are so because of their own misdeeds, and those in power are so because they had been good!!!)?

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Islam is a compilation of tribal talk about slaves, loot, killing and all kind of stupid things, and this is what you are comparing hinduism against? If Islam can be 1% divine, assuming that 1% of divinity is simply idiotic, than of course hinduism will have at least 1% of divinity that doesn't look that stupid. There is no society that doesn't have castes or hierarchy of status of some kind. All open societies end up with their hierarchy of status. Do you know why you are not CEO of a company? Is it your fault if you were not born that smart to be a CEO of a company? Is it your fault that you were born as a pakistani and a muslim? Assume that you were converted to Islam from Hinduism, is it your fault that you went through that conversion? Assume, somebody else was a slave of an Arab trader and that is how he got converted to Islam, is it his or his descendant's fault? Similarly, those who are born brahman, baniya, rajput or shudra are not at fault if they feel they shouldn't be what they are, but except for petty untouchability for the lowest level shudra ( comparable buy yet far better than slaves), no other caste has been denied any development. Hinduism shows valmiki and Vysya and many other rishis as Shudra or lower caste and tried to impress upon people that anybody can become great and do great things (contrary to your deceptive belief) .

The worst religions like Islam had slaves, kaffir and such much more evil categorization, while Hinduism arrived at slightly better categorization, based more on profession than on plain slavery. And their religious books talk in much better terms about caste than Islam talks about slaves and non-believers in Islam


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And what kind of a people can come up with a soceity that produces specimen of the kind that come on chowk and can talk about nothing other than insults to other communities?

As for my beliefs, they are simple and I have been harping on them for years on chowk. I shall be glad to harp on them some more if you wish and if hamidm gives me permission.
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People who are slightly better than those who produced the muslim specimen available on chowk?? Most of these samples don't know what freedom or liberation is and need to free and liberate whole world?? People who talk day in and day out about all bad things in Islam and Pakistan and will keep on claiming that their Pakistan is far better and their Islam is far better. Hindus don't claim such stupid things and are ready to praise any good thing. If Pakistani samples have not proved time and again their consistent pride in stupidity, in the leadership of people like Anil, most of Hindus would have been happy to criticize their own folks, customs or hinduism. But now most people know how "samples" think and reason and what is "divine" for them and most people can not take chance to consider "samples" normal anymore, so they have stopped doing the extra praise they are so capable of doing. It is Islam and its derivative Islamic states who are always living in an illusion of their greatness.


And if any coward wants to mark it as red flagged, make sure you understand that your mind is not able to digest truths as they are.

#122 Posted by Goldfinger

"after all what victors do to the vanquished throughout history"

Compare this with the treatment given to the ignoble mass of 91000 Paki soldiers including a general, captured by the Indian army. They were fed and fatted for several months in India and honourably sent back to their homes. Are you left with some shame now?

#125 Posted by Goldfinger

A pot should not be calling kettle black.

Teri auqat hi kya hai?

Re: # 128

hamid mia, these are all official accounts of momeen ghazis themselves.......and the same attitude gets carried down to generations of those who consider them are the rightful and pure heirs of the Islami Jehad in the sub continent........

Paki history begins with jehad in the land of Hind and Sindh........it would end with the destruction of the present day jehadis and their supporters in Pakistan......