How it Became Bakistan

Re: # 43
"Is there any punishment ordained for takfiriat as per the Holy Book or the Hadiths?"

I'll answer later, but do remind me if I forget.

Its time to pray now.

Shanti.

Re: # 41
"What is the punishment for labelling a devout Muslim as a murtid/kafir?"

He's getting it from me non-stop, isn't THAT decent punishment for an athiest!

Tahir mian.

Is there any punishment ordained for takfiriat as per the Holy Book or the Hadiths?

Regards

Re: # 39
"I hope you realise it is a serious thing to be calling a Mussalman a Kafir."

This sickness is called TAKFEER. Notice how they foam at the mouth instead of answering what I reproduced against their dead patrons.

Kadvimeethi,

Oh yes, definately!

Then perhaps you acted in haste in pronouncing Tahir mian as a kafir.

What is the punishment for labelling a devout Muslim as a murtid/kafir?

Regards

majju sahib,

Oh yes, definately!

Bring in on, you fanatic! oh I mean, Mulla Tahir!
-E

Kadvimeethi,

He's what he is meant to be: a Kafir at large.

I hope you realise it is a serious thing to be calling a Mussalman a Kafir.

Regards

naqsh sahib,

Don't feel hurt cuz of Tahir's fanaticism. He's what he is meant to be: a Kafir at large.
------
Tahir,
Now you have once again offended me by calling Sachal Shah a name.

And I assure you that you WILL definately burn in HELL, if there is an eternal one.

If not, I swear a full day of 'chatt-roll' at any Karachi chowk chosen by you is what you are destined to receive. Mark my works, you will get it whenever I see you around by chance, you moron.
-E

Re: # 34
Naqsh,

All this while you kept that poison vile close to your heart? I remember my 'whirling' derwish comments!

Allow me to quote Iqbal's Jawab-e-Shikwa (God's Response to the Complaint):

"Your style of living is Christian, your culture that of the Hindu; A Jew would be ashamed if he saw Muslims such as you. You are Saiyyads as well as Mirzas, and you are Afghans--You are all these but tell us are you also Mussalmans?"

And finally, Sachal Sarmast of Sindh:

He did not believe in rituals. "The Kalma has not at all made me a Musalman; nor did Mohammed send any faith from Araby. I am the Truth--though I am but a man for men."

In another place he says: "If I read the Kalma, I will become a kafir. I will not set foot on the path of Mohammed." Elsewhere he says: "Why this Kaaba and Qibla? All these are excuses."

Naqsh, can't you differntiate bewteen truth and falsehood? This is precisely why the West loves Sufism and labels purity as fundamentalism.

Your insensitivity to the issue at hand has been duly noted.

'Sufi message of peace', my left foot.

Re: # 32
Stutter-2
"Mother land is a wh..e/I can’t take it anymore"

I guess you meant:

Motherland all the more
I'm a U.S-settled wh..e

remember a smile and a good deed ARE better dawah than blowing yourselves and other innocent people with you. The Sufis brought people into Islam --your lot are taking people out of it. Wah wah!

Ya Bahu! Haqq Bahu!

tahir,

what do you mean by risk everything? those who whirl and do zikr at the darbars, for example, ARE doing exactly what is necessary for the survival and glory of traditional Islam. It is your kind who are putting it in danger.

Re: # 30

naqshbandi mian,

..... i knew i was on to something good when, at a very tender age, i started drinking bhang at bari imam's mela and smoking peeli pati at the urs of data ganj baksh ......... i think our salvation lies in the kinder and gentler islam of the sufis .... everyone, including the economist, is now extolling the virtues of bhang, hashish and whirling prostitutes ...... how can anyone think of blowing themselves up when they are having such a merry time!

... dam a dam mast qalandar !
... death to the wahabis !
... liberate hijaz from the clutches of the saudis !
... bari bari, imam bari !
... ali allah! ali allah!

http://www.economist.com/research/articlesBySubject/displaystory.cfm?s ubjectid=7294978&story_id=12792544

hamidm,

billy joel is an infidel … astaghfirullah! May the angels curse him and diseased dogs drag his bones through the streets of kuffa …

… good news is that naqsh and his sufi imams have the tool to fight the wahabis … I always knew we could trust the ahle-sunnah maliki wallahu barelvi ahle-ba'it traditional hanafis to save our collective ass … takbeer …

+++

NWFP - damn, those poppy seeds!
Bangali, go away - Mohajir in karachi

Late night ramzaan - mullah from afghanistan
Shouting, screaming all night - creating more taliban

…

Mother land is a whore
I can’t take it anymore

Re: # 30

When I think about it all, not many here who speak passionately about Islam are willing to risk everything for its survival and glory.

Lip-service is always cheaper.

amusing in parts and i agree that zia is to blame to a large extent but also the fact that pak happened to be located where it is during the afghan occupation by the soviets during the height of the cold war; if it had happened in elsetimes i think history would have been different.

having said that, like any third world country, pakistan's main problem continues to be poverty and corruption. india is similar in this regard.

our own leaders have been lackeys since the very beginning--both fauji and non-fauji. all it takes is one honest man to stand up to the Superpower(s) (take Chavez or Castro). Iran is another example...

The problem is that our ruling class has always had an inferiority complex towards the White Man ever since British times.

What we need is khud-daar self-respecting leaders who don't take orders from abroad.

Instead of just reciting Iqbal we need to start acting on his advice:

Kaafir hai tau aafaaq mein gum hai
Momin hai tau hain us mein gum aafaaq


As for the Wahabi distortion of Islam this was originally created partially with the help of the British to weaken the Hijaz from Ottoman control and now it is coming back to bite them in the ass. I think--and hope--that the mainstream majority Sunni-Sufi Islam of Pakistan defeats this heresy. In fact I think ONLY the Sufi Muslims can defeat it, ideologically and materially if they get Govt. support. Problem is that most people who belong to Sufi (in Pakistan aka Barelvi) Islam are not in powerful positions politically. This must change if we are to save the beauty of Baba Waris Shah, Hazrat Sultan Bahu, Mian Muhammad Bakhsh, Baba Farid, Sakhi Shahbaz Qalandar, Shah Abdul Latif Bhitai, Data Sahib etc.'s Islam and the related culture they represent.

The good news is that the scholars of traditional islam HAVE the ideological tools to defeat Wahabis intellectually which is why, still, despite 30 years of state-sponsorship, Wahabis still numerically represent a small percentage of Pakistan's population EVEN in the NWFP.