How it Became Bakistan

Intelligent, humourous and interesting.

Anyway is there any Lahori here. If so want photos of 7 & 9 Empress Road

Sanatani

Re: # 66

Do you not think that instead of parity with India you had had better tried to be better than India or tried to outsmart us.

Na rehta bbans na bajti bansuri.

Not stayed bamboo no tune in flute.

Sanatani

Re: # 37

Tahir can you? All of you are following not just a false but a murderous ideology an then want to nit pick on that.

Phakallah may u see the path of righteousness as they say "Verily truth is different from falsehood".

Mohamphudda twanu phuddu bana rey hai aur tusi phuddu ban rahe ho.

Sanatani

Re: # 30

Naqshe,

As da matlab:

Kaafir hai tau aafaaq mein gum hai
Momin hai tau hain us mein gum aafaaq

Vaise was Shah Waliullah a sufi or Wahabi.

U r one of the genuine but misguided people and when I c what u write I say the war is against Islam not muslai.

Sorry if my writings offend u but o ex-Son of Bharat Mata alienated because of Islam when I think of you it makes me want to weep.

Sanatani

Re: # 19

JayPee there is no TNT version of muslai.
And if there was 1 then the people who developed it was muslai of the Indian and Bangla area not Pak.

Because the bangalis and bhaiyas could not live in peace with Hindus Bak happened.

Not that it was not a good thing but would have been better if the original paks had been cleansed from here.

Sanatani

Re: # 15

Bak has many freedom fighters esp those who come to liberate Kashmir.

Sanatani

Re: # 67
NM,

Oops! I will fire my assistants for mixing you up with BS-Maja Saja (i.e. riff-raff).

Chalo isi bahanay Khuda ka naam to lay lia!

:)

#66 Posted by bittersweetmojo

" that it is us, the Pakistani people, who are dealing with the fallout of Zia's actions. Not you as such."

You are good at acrobatics. Do you remember where did this start? It started with who won or lost the 1965 war.

Anyway, it was enlightening.

#67

lol.

-E

#64 Posted by tahir

"And GOD yet again!"

Maulana ji, it is ME now. Do u see BSM spectre in your bad dreams also?

nem,

Of course. Zia did. But that doesn't give you a right to curse my people for everything that happens anywhere in this god forsaken world. Don't forget that it is us, the Pakistani people, who are dealing with the fallout of Zia's actions. Not you as such.

Beside what do you want me to do? Drag Zia out of his grave and give his corpse a beating at a Karachi chowk?

Sorry. I have better things to do for my country than dragging him out!
-E

Re: # 63

Kafir,

Let me say it a million times if it satisfies your ego. GOD GOD GOD GOD GOD.... GOD (a million crossed!)

P.S: Champpoo, it doesn't matter if I don't believe in his existence, khuda ki qasam!
LOL.
GROW UP!
-E

Re: # 62
"God! So much u haggled!"

And GOD yet again!

By Allah, the apeman is finally beginning to see light!

Allahu Akbar!!

Re: # 58
"God! What happened to your..."

The Marxist, atheist, 'takfeeri' half-ape-half-man finally proclaims the name of God! Allahu Akbar!

Why didn't he call for Marx/Lenon/Mao or Bilawal Bhutto?

Every atheist must face this reality at the moment of death.

#61 Posted by bittersweetmojo on February 25, 2009 7:26:58

'We don't study in madrassa as well. Those who do, we send them over for proxy wars.'

I see! so your admin set up is in place. Why did u need Obama to accept 26/11? God! So much u haggled!

Did Zia not incorporate this in the preamble?

nem,

We don't study in madrassa as well. Those who do, we send them over for proxy wars.

Yeah right...BBC. I stand puzzled!

And NO. Right is NOT wrong, just cuz you say so.

This is the post-modern world. We all have perspectives, no final truth.

So Pakistani perspective is different than yours. We can only talk about it when you intend to do so in good faith. But till then I feel compelled to be rigid n rude, just cuz I love my country.

Think abt it.
If not in good faith...I wish you 'rest in peace' soon.
Bye.
-E

#58 Posted by bittersweetmojo

"God! What happened to your history lessons back at home, Nem?"

We don't study in madrassa. It is a god given gift to us to at least try to be inquisitive and differentiate between right and wrong.

Shastri's death was out of context of the present discussion.
Do you know at the time of 1965 and 1971 wars we used to rely only upon BBC for authentic news?

Wrong is always wrong even if I love my country so much.

Nem,

Nobody can claim who ran backwards n who didnt when fighting a war!

And for that matter, quoting a website won't help you win THIS war. So give up or keep ranting, I am leaving.

Cheers.

-E

Re: # 55

God! What happened to your history lessons back at home, Nem?


P.S: How swiftly you irnored my remark abt Shastri ji. Good job.
-E

#56 Posted by Kulharee

I do appreciate your constraints. But speaking a lie a thousand times and calling it a truth is also not fair no?

In other countries (also in India) the follies are exposed over a period of time. We know the follies of nehru and vkk menon vis-a-vis china war and we curse them for that. But indoctrination in Pakistan is so strong that two plus two is twentytwo because major saab said so.(in army parlance)

Re #8 and #53. Nemesis, I somewhat agree, but my take on this was like this: If we don’t lose very badly, we consider it a win. We have set very low standards for ourselves. We won 1965 war because we got to keep the whole country.

#54 Posted by bittersweetmojo

"Same can be said about India, no?
All India Radio was at work back then, wasn't it?"

hmmmmm... yes.

"And I am sure you guys have been given tuitions the same way about the 65 war."

No. Mercifully, I got it from globalsecurity.org

This is the next para

Pakistan was rudely shocked by the reaction of the United States to the war. Judging the matter to be largely Pakistan s fault, the United States not only refused to come to Pakistan s aid under the terms of the Agreement of Cooperation, but issued a statement declaring its neutrality while also cutting off military supplies. The Pakistanis were embittered at what they considered a friend's betrayal, and the experience taught them to avoid relying on any single source of support. For its part, the United States was disillusioned by a war in which both sides used United States-supplied equipment. The war brought other repercussions for the security relationship as well. The United States withdrew its military assistance advisory group in July 1967. In response to these events, Pakistan declined to renew the lease on the Peshawar military facility, which ended in 1969. Eventually, United States-Pakistan relations grew measurably weaker as the United States became more deeply involved in Vietnam and as its broader interest in the security of South Asia waned.

This may not make you happy. But what doooo... You have to accept the facts.

nem,

Same can be said about India, no?
All India Radio was at work back then, wasn't it?
And I am sure you guys have been given tuitions the same way about the 65 war.

Besides Shastri ji didn't die of heart attack. His diplomatic success led him to rest in peace, a medical report said so. :D

Cheers.
-E

#8 Posted by shankar

"He fought a successful war in 1965 over Kashmir with India"

This is what it was:
Overall, the war was militarily inconclusive; each side held prisoners and some territory belonging to the other. Losses were relatively heavy--on the Pakistani side, twenty aircraft, 200 tanks, and 3,800 troops. Pakistan's army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but a continuation of the fighting would only have led to further losses and ultimate defeat for Pakistan. Most Pakistanis, schooled in the belief of their own martial prowess, refused to accept the possibility of their country's military defeat by "Hindu India" and were, instead, quick to blame their failure to attain their military aims on what they considered to be the ineptitude of Ayub Khan and his government.

In pakistan, you don't have to win a war to claim success. Your hallucinations become a reality. Majority of Pakistanis are uneducated and believe the Radio Pakistan news.

Kafir-Tahir,

Your day of punishment is approaching!
Soon.
-E

Re: # 48
"But as an atheist, dont you think it is quite odd on your part to pronounce Tahir mian a kafir."

Clever questions! If this fool did the same, he'd get decent answers from within; but he doesn't!

Check out my I-log: Who is a Kafir?

Regards.

Re: # 49
Jetzt muss ich wechseln zu Deutsch du Narr!

Gehen Sie liegen in einem Grab ummarked für alle mir, und nehmen Sie sie mit heidnischen Philosophie.

majju sahib,

I have a right because of my pastlife in and with Islam. How about that? Besides who cares if I haven't any right whatsoever in this regard, BUT I can prove that he's a Kafir by any standard of both Islam and Sui-ism.

My people! hmm...
All Pakistanis in general, atheists and Marxist in particular. Fanatics like Tahir and the elite establishment are NOT my beloved people. :D

I have a special love-respect-package for Marx, Muhammad, Sartre, Sachal, Bulleh and the rest as well. Do you mind?

Anyway. Now I have to go.
Have a nice day.

And I know Tahir will be damned sooner or later.

over n out.
-E

Kadvimeethi sahib,

I have been a known atheist and ve lived freely in Karachi

It is certainly heartening to hear that. But as an atheist, dont you think it is quite odd on your part to pronounce Tahir mian a kafir.

if my beloved people are accused of reactionary claims

Who are your beloved people. All Pakistanis or merely atheist Pakistanis.

Regards

majju sahib,

"Then perhaps you acted in haste in pronouncing Tahir mian as a kafir."

Certainly not. I know where people like tahir come from, hence I know what they mistakenly think they know about anything they claim to believe in.

If you are curious, let me tell you that Taliban could punish me for this if I were in their reach. And even if I were, I would never take back my words.

I stand by it: Tahir is a Kafir at large by any defination of Islam or Sufi-ism for that matter.
-E

#41
majju sahib,

Frankly speaking, kisi ka baap bhi kuch nahi bigaar sakta mera! :D
For the last ten years, I have been a known atheist and ve lived freely in Karachi as I damn please.

------------
tahir,

The fact is that you don't deserve my time.
So go to hell, you moronic fanatic!
Meet me someday if you have guts of a man!
Let me show you how violent I can be, if my beloved people are accused of reactionary claims.
-E

Re: # 43
"Is there any punishment ordained for takfiriat as per the Holy Book or the Hadiths?"

I'll answer later, but do remind me if I forget.

Its time to pray now.

Shanti.

Re: # 41
"What is the punishment for labelling a devout Muslim as a murtid/kafir?"

He's getting it from me non-stop, isn't THAT decent punishment for an athiest!

Tahir mian.

Is there any punishment ordained for takfiriat as per the Holy Book or the Hadiths?

Regards

Re: # 39
"I hope you realise it is a serious thing to be calling a Mussalman a Kafir."

This sickness is called TAKFEER. Notice how they foam at the mouth instead of answering what I reproduced against their dead patrons.

Kadvimeethi,

Oh yes, definately!

Then perhaps you acted in haste in pronouncing Tahir mian as a kafir.

What is the punishment for labelling a devout Muslim as a murtid/kafir?

Regards

majju sahib,

Oh yes, definately!

Bring in on, you fanatic! oh I mean, Mulla Tahir!
-E

Kadvimeethi,

He's what he is meant to be: a Kafir at large.

I hope you realise it is a serious thing to be calling a Mussalman a Kafir.

Regards

naqsh sahib,

Don't feel hurt cuz of Tahir's fanaticism. He's what he is meant to be: a Kafir at large.
------
Tahir,
Now you have once again offended me by calling Sachal Shah a name.

And I assure you that you WILL definately burn in HELL, if there is an eternal one.

If not, I swear a full day of 'chatt-roll' at any Karachi chowk chosen by you is what you are destined to receive. Mark my works, you will get it whenever I see you around by chance, you moron.
-E

Re: # 34
Naqsh,

All this while you kept that poison vile close to your heart? I remember my 'whirling' derwish comments!

Allow me to quote Iqbal's Jawab-e-Shikwa (God's Response to the Complaint):

"Your style of living is Christian, your culture that of the Hindu; A Jew would be ashamed if he saw Muslims such as you. You are Saiyyads as well as Mirzas, and you are Afghans--You are all these but tell us are you also Mussalmans?"

And finally, Sachal Sarmast of Sindh:

He did not believe in rituals. "The Kalma has not at all made me a Musalman; nor did Mohammed send any faith from Araby. I am the Truth--though I am but a man for men."

In another place he says: "If I read the Kalma, I will become a kafir. I will not set foot on the path of Mohammed." Elsewhere he says: "Why this Kaaba and Qibla? All these are excuses."

Naqsh, can't you differntiate bewteen truth and falsehood? This is precisely why the West loves Sufism and labels purity as fundamentalism.

Your insensitivity to the issue at hand has been duly noted.

'Sufi message of peace', my left foot.

Re: # 32
Stutter-2
"Mother land is a wh..e/I can’t take it anymore"

I guess you meant:

Motherland all the more
I'm a U.S-settled wh..e

remember a smile and a good deed ARE better dawah than blowing yourselves and other innocent people with you. The Sufis brought people into Islam --your lot are taking people out of it. Wah wah!

Ya Bahu! Haqq Bahu!

tahir,

what do you mean by risk everything? those who whirl and do zikr at the darbars, for example, ARE doing exactly what is necessary for the survival and glory of traditional Islam. It is your kind who are putting it in danger.

Re: # 30

naqshbandi mian,

..... i knew i was on to something good when, at a very tender age, i started drinking bhang at bari imam's mela and smoking peeli pati at the urs of data ganj baksh ......... i think our salvation lies in the kinder and gentler islam of the sufis .... everyone, including the economist, is now extolling the virtues of bhang, hashish and whirling prostitutes ...... how can anyone think of blowing themselves up when they are having such a merry time!

... dam a dam mast qalandar !
... death to the wahabis !
... liberate hijaz from the clutches of the saudis !
... bari bari, imam bari !
... ali allah! ali allah!

http://www.economist.com/research/articlesBySubject/displaystory.cfm?s ubjectid=7294978&story_id=12792544

hamidm,

billy joel is an infidel … astaghfirullah! May the angels curse him and diseased dogs drag his bones through the streets of kuffa …

… good news is that naqsh and his sufi imams have the tool to fight the wahabis … I always knew we could trust the ahle-sunnah maliki wallahu barelvi ahle-ba'it traditional hanafis to save our collective ass … takbeer …

+++

NWFP - damn, those poppy seeds!
Bangali, go away - Mohajir in karachi

Late night ramzaan - mullah from afghanistan
Shouting, screaming all night - creating more taliban

…

Mother land is a whore
I can’t take it anymore

Re: # 30

When I think about it all, not many here who speak passionately about Islam are willing to risk everything for its survival and glory.

Lip-service is always cheaper.

amusing in parts and i agree that zia is to blame to a large extent but also the fact that pak happened to be located where it is during the afghan occupation by the soviets during the height of the cold war; if it had happened in elsetimes i think history would have been different.

having said that, like any third world country, pakistan's main problem continues to be poverty and corruption. india is similar in this regard.

our own leaders have been lackeys since the very beginning--both fauji and non-fauji. all it takes is one honest man to stand up to the Superpower(s) (take Chavez or Castro). Iran is another example...

The problem is that our ruling class has always had an inferiority complex towards the White Man ever since British times.

What we need is khud-daar self-respecting leaders who don't take orders from abroad.

Instead of just reciting Iqbal we need to start acting on his advice:

Kaafir hai tau aafaaq mein gum hai
Momin hai tau hain us mein gum aafaaq


As for the Wahabi distortion of Islam this was originally created partially with the help of the British to weaken the Hijaz from Ottoman control and now it is coming back to bite them in the ass. I think--and hope--that the mainstream majority Sunni-Sufi Islam of Pakistan defeats this heresy. In fact I think ONLY the Sufi Muslims can defeat it, ideologically and materially if they get Govt. support. Problem is that most people who belong to Sufi (in Pakistan aka Barelvi) Islam are not in powerful positions politically. This must change if we are to save the beauty of Baba Waris Shah, Hazrat Sultan Bahu, Mian Muhammad Bakhsh, Baba Farid, Sakhi Shahbaz Qalandar, Shah Abdul Latif Bhitai, Data Sahib etc.'s Islam and the related culture they represent.

The good news is that the scholars of traditional islam HAVE the ideological tools to defeat Wahabis intellectually which is why, still, despite 30 years of state-sponsorship, Wahabis still numerically represent a small percentage of Pakistan's population EVEN in the NWFP.

Aslam Beg, Afghania...... Baki of Arabia
Suicide Vest, A-Bomb Test, IMF Loans

Bibi comes and Bibi Goes
Bomb Goes off and no one knows

Strategic Depth laid to waste
Cricket tests gone away
What more do I have to have...

Re: # 27


sattar mian,

... that sounds like a billy joel song, except we started this fire and now it is killing us ......

bhatti (re #14), you should try satire; something tells me you'd be really good at it ...

On a different note:

Russians in afghanistan,
We have our own taliban

...

zia-ul-haque blown away
what more do I have to say ...

Kulharee,

Forced attempt at 'something' you are not good at.

Besides you need to get enrolled at a Masadi-run school to learn a few details on the American connection.

I know you wouldn't like a Marxist dayschool, so it's no use to send you an invition for that.

-Cheers.
-E

Feroz Bhai,
A-salam-a-ulaikum, marhabba, jazak allah on a beautiful article, took me down memory lane, it was like as if all the past events were being unfolded in front of me... it was a nail biting satire, kept me on the seat of my pants.
Bakistan needs ppl like you

Khuda Hafiz

Re: # 23
I hereby confer upon you the title of KDGD-2!

"as for bakistanis like tahir and bhatti, you have to understand that they have been bitten by..."

What is THAT acronym? I will tell you soon; right now my camel is calling me.

kulharee mian,

.... this was the first decent article i have read on chowk in a long time .............good job! ...... as for bakistanis like tahir and bhatti, you have to understand that they have been bitten by camel fleas and suffer from a terminal disease that results in the patient blowing up in a crowded place killing innocent bystanders .........

Jay Yaar, there are a lot smarter Ahmadis in (and outside of) Pakistan than Prof. Abdus Salam. I dont believe that that was why Ahmadis were declared non-Muslims in Pakistan.

Remembering abdus salam

To day when Rehman won the oscars for music, all of india celebrated his success, though he belonged to a minority community.

When abdus salam won the nobel prize, ahmadias were declared non muslims. Waht a difference an ideology of TNT makes when one of its citizens win a global award.

In support of Zaedari,

Zardari is sacrificing a lot for the people of pakistan, he could have loved happily with his stolen millions in any western country. Now he has to listen to the special envoys of at least three countries so far. Take the case of mumabi, he listenmed to hobrook then a phone call from obama and he has to do the most disgraceful thing, to accept the role of isi in mubai and say that it hatched in pakiland.

Why is he doing this, to help the people of pakistan so taht they will have food to eat

when hamidm come home, he can drive on the motor ways, h can have his single malt whiskeys.

The US money is not something that zardari pokets, it is for the people of pakistan and zardari accepts to be humiliated, and inturn humiliates all pakis.

Have some heart for the poor zardari, it is all for you.

I recently interviewed a singer from Waziristan for my documentary film on the area. With tears in his eyes he told, it is his culture that is under harshest assault by the Al Qaeda and Taliban militants. His brother has been killed by the Taliban, because his brother, he said, was a brave man and challenged the high handedness of Al Qaeda and Taliban militants in his village. The singer has received many death threats for singing Pashto music. He lives as an internally displaced person in another place in Pakistan. He told me he will never give up singing. This, he said, is his 'cultural Jihad' with which he will continue to defy the Al Qaeda occupation of his homeland.

.//////from jang of today////////////

The pakis including tahmed talk about kashmir. Here is a tribal culture destroyed by islamic violence. Why no one talks about it, simply because the taliban are the true pakis, they have been taught the TNT version of islam, and that is why they are allowed to move into swat and occypy those lands.

It is all, the strategic depth notion, one day the yanks will leave afghanistan, then the taliban from fata and swat will over run afghanistan like they did before.

Take it from me pakis, that is not going to happen, simply because of 9/11

The importance of swat,

The swat deal is important. The taliban there who got this deal are not the locals, they are mostly from punjab, madrassa products, they defeated the tribals, occupied their land, have their govt there. This is a model that is going to spread, they are going to attack the neighbors.

Swat is the equivalent of afghanistan from where 9/11 was launched.

Axeman,

Bad bad attempt!

And I can see the hatred for Bhutto spilling over. You folks helped him get on the driving seat, had yourselves declared non-Muslims, involved yourselves in murderous conspiracies, and now sit reaping the benefits in London or wherever.

We don't need your distorted lessons.

Re: # 3
New York Axeman,

"This was a Satire, calling it history, oh okay, my bad.... it is historically pretty accurate, maybe I exaggerated at places a little (and sometimes a lot)."

What a disguised admission of guilt, just like Salman Rushdie! Birds of the feather flock together.

MGAQ did his bit, and you continue in that tradition, 'mistree' of his-story!

"Jinnah and his fellow revolutionaries gave everything, including a few who also gave their lives to realize the creation of a new nation."

Feroz,

Take it from me feroz, pakistan has no freedom fighters, no one gave anything for pakistan, Jinnah created it with his type writer, in his own words and the divide and rule policy.

In india even today there are few freedom fighters who are respected, govt pays pensions to them.

Pakistan has none, and that is the problem.

Pakistan has to follow the book, and that book is very old. Finally, the islamic country that jinnah envisaged is coming to existence, in swat and quickly in more places, governed by the book.

Kulli,

If this was history then it was bad, and if it was satire, it was worse... To write a satirical piece, yo have to have the ability or trait called 'kamina pan'. I think you lack that... :@

Dear writer
Utterly speechless!!!
This article is word by word exact depiction of my ideology based on facts about a country, once known as Pakistan. Your anaylsis is what most of the sensitive Pakistanis feel. This is sad though, but, this break down of Pakistan exactly started with Bhutto and then ended up with his son in law zardari. One made bangladesh and the othe rone made pakhtoonistan. Zardari completed the remaining task of his father in law. Mission accomplished.

But, I don't agree with one point. Talibanization started by Zia...And Zia and Talibans were the creation of America, not Saudi Arabia.

Their masters were Americans, not saudis. And how can Saudis be their masters, while Saudis themselves were American dogs and slaves to lick their feet.

Yes, I agree with you when you say, Zia, Musharaf and others made Pakistan a clown country by using Islam.....

I still remember when I was a lil kid, I used to say that this is my prediction, if, Pakistanis won't separate their govt. from religion and if, they won't end this corrupt society? There would be no Pakistan and yes, that prediction has come true and I am seeing NO Pakistan on the map of the world in coming years.....

Your article has released my stress...I thought I am the only one with this massive burden on my shoulders carrying the dead body of a country, once known as Pakistan....

Kulharee....
We ( india) have equal and may be more dramatic set of events...

I am surprised that many of the Pakistanis are blaming bits and peaces events for the current state of Pakistan...It is the natural fallout of a Islamic majority society and history proved it again and again....
Malaysia has around 40% chinku and Indic population...once that comes down to 3%-4%, it will be another Pakistan

Parshuram, I think you just like proverbs and quotations and so went about putting together an article to chain a few of them together! :)

The history of Pakistan is indeed a sad, sad, chequered history. And it is distressing to think that it did not have to be this way -- except for the short-sightedness, narrow-mindedness, and deep-rooted religious prejudices of one TB-suffering emaciated individual from back in those days! I could name the guy but there is no point in making Yasser miaN even more miserable!! :((

Oh! quit wining Feroz, Urstuly is come riding on his bleach blonde camel and save you guys..

Faruk

kulharee,

lots of nice quotes :)

"He fought a successful war in 1965 over Kashmir with India"

Is this part of the satire?
Pakistan didn't achieve any its objectives in the 65 war; but curiously, many of you believe your country was successful!

"We didn't start the fire" thankfully was shorter and a lot faster. :D

A quick, intriguiging summary ... reminds me of "We didn't start the fire ..."

This has a Montypythonesque quality about it - to wit:
"Prime Minister Liaquat Ali Khan is assassinated (and would you believe that he was killed in the park that shared his name - how so ironic). "

Kulharee saab: I know it was a satire. (and I said what I did because of the exaggerations) :)

This was a Satire, calling it history, oh okay, my bad.

Masadi Sahib, I am glad you read it for what it’s worth. Don’t you think that we’ve been had by our leaders? I think you and I both agree that it’s a mess, except we place blame on different elements. I argue that before accusing imperial powers for our misery, let’s start at home. Let’s look under our own noses first. If we as a nation are inherently corrupt and crooked, we are up for sale no matter who the buyer.

Ana, Actually, it is historically pretty accurate, maybe I exaggerated at places a little (and sometimes a lot).

Only Kulharee is capable of such atrocity as quoting Che Guevara in order to support imperialism....

Have a nice day, this article is not worth a read,

TNITC masadi

I'm really glad you weren't my history teacher.

Liked the quotes though. *thumbs up*