And the Hits Just Keep on Coming

Re: # 161

what makes you think I admire Mushy..But I did admire his breathtaking audacity of Kargil and the bluster he managed to get away with in Agra..a goddamn snake..and how did you deduce my ideology mr.Mo hair gyaarah?I'm a prop of global capitalism if you must now,hahahaha...

urstruly: I see that in your universe, a democratically elected government is a "criminal regime", while a bunch of thugs who are making "deals" with this government in order to carve out a bit of Pakistan for themselves are "revolutionaries".

Chowk is such a wonderful place, where all sorts of creatures from all sorts of universes, dimensions, and lunatic asylums come together.

I mean imagine that - bhindoos actually invited Mushy to listen to his pearls of wisdom... LOL

Re: # 159 baghi
[...He will lose his many friends and admirers in India if he spouts crap about the Taliban and the foreign hand. ...]

Don't worry - there are plenty of your commie friends who still line up to admire Imran paki, no matter what he says... I mean - look at Mushy - instead of arresting and prosecuting him for war-crimes, your liberal friends are feeding him halwa on his "lecture" tour, listening to his pearls of wisdom... LOL ...

Imagine that - this muhsy dude actually created and supported taliban - Imran Khan may be just talking about them...

Re: # 156

Imran gets way too much airtime in his political avatar.I still respect hsi amazing leadership qualities on the cricket field and his admirable charity work.He will lose his many friends and admirers in India if he spouts crap about the Taliban and the foreign hand.

Urstruly,
"Having said that, all the physical and circumstancial evidenve as posted in my last post suggests that at least in this incident RAW/Hindus were involved."

Going by your analysis 9/11 is done by Jews, AI flight hijack to Kandahar is done by horrible hindoos and 26/11 Bombay attack is done by Indian agencies. Only problem is you and the people who agrees with your analysis do not have any credibility in the rest of world.

"The reasons are obvious."
Are the perpetrators sporting some orange/saffron threads on wrists that gave you this obvious link, the same way you (and your ilk) attributed the Mumbai attack to RAW?

Urstruly,
Jihadi zealot like yourself doesn't need a physical or circumstantial proof of "RAW hand" up yours....
So stop this dramabazi and keep doing what you belive.

What could be worst news for cricket in Paki-land than a foreign team coming under terror assault?

Well, for starters, how about one of the Paki cricketing icon getting into some serious trouble very soon because of his incredible stupidity?

Read Imran Khan’s interview in London Times and you will have to agree with the new not-so-widespread saying “being a good cricketer does not necessarily make you a smart person or an intelligent politician though it can definitely help you score rich, blond, jewish chicks from London who love going commando for parties� .

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/men/article5860736.ece

S ome gems from the article

………..he has spent recent days crisscrossing the frontiers on the campaign trail for his political party, refusing a bodyguard or even a bullet-proof vest……


……..“No one knows where Osama bin Laden is hiding,� says Mr Khan. “But you must understand the tribal areas. They have the most decentralised, democratic system ever – every village has its own parliament, its own jury system.� Is it one that is fair to women? “Ah that is a cultural issue,� he says.


………“...It’s in the blood of the Pashtun to seek revenge – anyone who loses loved ones ends up picking up arms and joining the other side.�

Re: # 148 Hamidm

I have no qualms accepting that Taliban or revolutionaries in Pakistan who are fighting the criminal regimes in Islamabad could have done it. It makes perfect political as well as military strategic sense. One of their core objective is to destabilize the puppet regime of crooks and thugs that have been imposed on us, the people of Pakistan, by napak fouj and cia collusion. By this act the regime further loses its legitimacy that it would have otherwise gained a bit had these matches taken place in peace. It further would have sent a signal to the regime's foreign masters that no matter who you send to rule us would suffer the same fate of illegitimacy. So there...

Having said that, all the physical and circumstancial evidenve as posted in my last post suggests that at least in this incident RAW/Hindus were involved. The reasons are obvious.

From here its going to be interesting. The revolutionaries in Pakistan benefit politically by not reacting to Hindu aggression. The ISI on the other hand must send the signal to kathris as to who is the top dog in the region. So the next operation with in India has to be spectacularly shock and awe (quoting your masters). I do not know but in next 2 or 3 months ISI and revolutionaries might be able to align their objectives on how to respond.

Re: # 151

cheema sahib,

.... it seems there is no shortage of idiots in pakistan nowadays - there is one under every used toilet stone that is cast away by the mullahs and their nadas ...... even 'mainstream' news anchors like kamran khan come across like the rabid hindoos who we see on chowk chasing their own tails when they are not chasing cars yelping ' paki, paki!' ..... you are the medical man here, but i suspect it is something in grandpa gopinath's genes that just can't be bred out inspite of eating meat for many generations ......

Re: # 149
bhairav...
hammid gooool is SalahDin of 21st century....he is working very hard to put cresent on every building in India, through jihad...but somehow, US drones are diverting it...
Indian defence preparedness is very poor and furthermore, you get this piece of junk (Pakiland) in your neighbourhood...somehow, NASA etc.. have to find some technology to move Pakiland closer to the Arab deserts ... at least that will be best tribute to Indian contribution to science and mathematics....

Just overheard a Frenchman ask, "So what's this with this la whore attacks stuff? Who has attacked the whore, lets get them.'

Re: # 147; hamidm sahib

Zaid Hamid is another idiot who speaks via various Pakistani channels, and is also available via his own site 'brasstacks'

he speaks about the 'hindu-zionist' conspiracy to blame everything on, from his breakfast being cold in the morning to the disaster in Bombay to the shootings on the Sri Lankans ... a bit like the 'masadi' with a different set of 'elite' to blame

needless to say, he is listened to a lot in Pakistan these days, and it is only a matter of time before his opinions actually become the mainstream (assuming they haven't already)

Breaking News
laddu's application for internship has been accepted by Meshud Talibans.
Congratulations phootay laddu

Pakis have to be the most big hearted, generous and giving people in the world.

They gave their highest honor, Nishan-e-Pakistan to an ex-Indian PM Morarji Desai for being the biggest proponent of Uro-therapy before Europeans even thought of uniting under a single market and under one currency, the Euro.

Then they gave the US Special guy Richard Boucher Hilal-e-Something(or is it Hila-de-Something) for bombing their tribal areas with drones

And now they want to give Sri Lankan Kirket team Nishan-e-Chutyapa for being stupid enough to come and play Kirkut in their country when the whole world refused to do it.

Only thing left to give is the Nishan-e-Super-genius awards to Zaid Hamid, Hamid Gul, Imran Khan, etc. and
Nishan-e- head-buried-in-sands-of-arabia award to the ruling elite and media of Pakistan

Re: # 135

urstruly mian,

.... are you serious? ... do you really think the horrible hindoos did this? ...... you are beginning to sound like that looney imran khan and his pir, hamid gul ...... here is some good advice from irfan hussain in his column for dawn:

"We must face the fact that for over three decades, Pakistan has become a breeding ground for religious extremism, and a safe haven for terrorist groups. For years, these gangs have been used by our establishment to further its agenda in the region. Until 9/11, they were provided with money, arms and legitimacy by the Pakistani state. Now, the chickens have come home to roost.

Pakistan can purge itself of these killers only if there is a broad consensus that we will not put up with them any longer. But as long as elements in our security apparatus, our judiciary and our media think that their behaviour can be condoned by ‘western policies’, they will continue to bleed us and ensure our isolation. "

....... i hope the horrible hindoos are not listening, but this is the truth and unless we recognize the problem we can't fix it ...........

ladu mian,

.... okay, i know who hamid gul is - he is the biggest idiot in pakistan and we are sorry that he hasn't been shipped off to guantanamo ........ however, who the heck is zaid hamid ? ...... i have never heard of the guy ...... what is really surprising is how much you horrible hindoos worry about pakistan while we don't give a flip about things on the wrong side of the border ...... if it weren't for kashmir and bollywood we couldn't care less if you drifted off to australia

re. banjara #138

"PM, u think Butt was not clever about this. wait till mushy tell indians in new delhi that raw did it. "

banj.. to be sure, Butt's idiocy pertains to responsibility of the players/officals, not to the putative perpetrators. RAW will always be a suspect in such cases just as the IJI always is when $hit happens in India.

#135 Urstruly

[I don't think that we will let Hindus go scott free.]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha......hahahahahaha....hahahahahahaha.... .

Sorry...didn't mean that.... hahahahahahahahahahaha......hahahaha..hahaha...hahahahahaha...
ooooooh....sorry ....can't control myself.....hahahahahahahahaha....

Re: # 131

"... who the heck are zaid hamid and hamir gul? ..."

Mian,

If you want to continue with your jehad against horrible hindoos you need to refresh your Jazba-e-Jehad with both the fellons.

Zaid Hamid Zindabad!!
Hamid gul Zindabad!!!
Hamidm zindabad!! Hamidm for the next Khalifa of Pakistan!

#141 Posted by Baghi_Shehzada on March 7, 2009 3:58:27 pm
"Re: # 135 Ohhhh the dreaded RAW.I had no idea they were so nefarious"

RAW might have planted the story to get some credit.

Re: # 125
..no am quaking in my seven league boots at wild eyed guys after my thick skull..hahahahaha

Re: # 135

Ohhhh the dreaded RAW.I had no idea they were so nefarious.They must be thrilled with such a reputation across the border....

heh...piling on

India questions who is in control in Pakistan

The Associated Press
Saturday, March 7, 2009; 4:16 AM

NEW DELHI -- India's home minister said Pakistan could become a failed state and raised doubts about who was in control of the nuclear-armed country, a news report said Saturday.

Home Minister Palaniappan Chidambaram's comments came days after a daring attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team in the Pakistani city of Lahore. Heavily armed gunmen killed six police and a driver and wounded several players Tuesday before fleeing unscathed.

"In Pakistan, with regret, I would say we don't know who is in control there _ whether it is the army or the president or the government," the Press Trust of India news agency quoted Chidambaram as saying at a seminar on Friday.

"It is not a failed state, but it is threatening to become one," Chidambaram said in Mumbai, India's financial and entertainment capital.

He could not be reached for comment Saturday.

Relations between India and Pakistan have deteriorated following the Nov. 26 terrorist attacks in Mumbai that killed 164 people.

Separately, India's External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee said the attack on the Sri Lankan cricketers showed the Pakistani government's "lack of will or capability in tackling this menace."

At a conference in the Indian capital Friday, Mukherjee called for coordinated efforts by the international community to eliminate terrorism, "otherwise, no part of the world would remain immune to the flames."

"In his editorial he has published the CID (Criminal Investigation Deptt.) report dated January 22, 2009 where it was explicitly reported..."

EXPLICITLY reported ? Hmmm.... sounds serious. Should Manmohan Singh send in an official notice of surrender ?

Re: # 134

PM, u think Butt was not clever about this. wait till mushy tell indians in new delhi that raw did it.

#132 Posted by PM on March 7, 2009 12:54:07 pm

well his name IS butt....

#135 Posted by Urstruly on March 7, 2009 1:20:54 pm

yeah...you'll do what?

the lawhore attack has had a much bigger impact than the bombay attack...the lahore attack is another nail in pakiland's international reputation...

p.s. if you could do something about it, you all would be vacationing in srinigar by now, wouldn't you....

I like Ali Chowdry and his style of writing. In his editorial he has published the CID (Criminal Investigation Deptt.) report dated January 22, 2009 where it was explicitly reported that Indian R.W.A was planning to assassinate Sri Lankan Criket Team on their way to stadium. The letter is in English:

I think the case is open & shut. I don't think that we will let Hindus go scott free.

http://daily.urdupoint.com/todayColumn.php?column_id=6754&page1=1&a mp;a mp;page=1&writer_id=2&date1=2009-03-07

banjara, yes,actually. To lie cleverly is one thing. To do it this way is beyond stupid!

PM,
u write, "Is this a-hole so beyghairat that he thinks he can lie about what we all saw on tv??"

did u expect anything less???

ok... sorry to interrupt this fabulous exchange between hamid mian and luddu but...

Is anyone following the statements coming out of the PCB? Butt, on the BBC, claimed that Broad's account of security was "totally wrong, fabricated … no truth in it".

WTF!?! Is this a-hole so beyghairat that he thinks he can lie about what we all saw on tv??

Now Miandad has added his voice to the many Pakistani cricketers and ex-cricketers calling for action against Broad. WTF!!!

BUTT clearly had his head stuck up his name when he went on to say: "We had three ODIs and a Test with no problems, ... There is no way one can predict a terrorist attack. "

Muthafcuker!! The fact that they weren't attacked earlier is now proof that security was all right?? And look how the lying ba$tard is completely ignoring the Punjab CID report of Jan. 22.

He also dismissed suggestions from a number of witnesses, including Muttiah Muralitharan and Broad, that the Pakistan bus was several minutes behind the main convey at the time of the attack. "Nonsense," he said, "it was there and one of the security staff informed them there was firing and they turned back."

Now WTF is this!?!? Just yesterday Yunis Khan, in an effort to quell conspiracy theories, explained to reporters how it was normal for one team to leave five to ten minutes after the other, which is exactly what he'd decided to do, since his team would be batting anyway. Now Butt's contradicting him too??

And finally, this freaking lie that has been doing the rounds for some years now.. "We will need to convince people they can come here," Butt said. "Our public is cricket crazy."

BULL$HIT!! Pakistanis are not cricket-crazy and don't treat cricket as a religion. That would be the Indians. We have perhaps the thinnest turnouts perhaps in the world at the stadiums for both Tests and ODI's. So who the fcuk arewe trying to kid with this lie!?

Re: # 130

laddu mian,

... who the heck are zaid hamid and hamir gul? ..... and if it will make you feel any better, i go for namaz only twice a year ..... i missed the last eid prayers and see what happened to the world's economy .... mrs hamidm doesn't cook, i do ... as for my daughters, they are free to date anyone as long as he is not an indian, taliban or serial killer ..... and you should never spell the prophet's name incorrectly (pbuhahc) .........

Re: # 129

hamid mia,

I think you are watching too many Brasstrack episodes on Isami Gazis by Zaid Hamid (your brother in name as well).......

or may be you are listening to too many lectures by another co-name........ psst.......Hamir Gul saheb.......

Mian , you immediately need to stop going to the jumma namaz........... it is turning you into an evil man........

you should also take Mrs Hamid out for dinner more often and stop demanding her to cook those elaborate dinners at home..........

finally.........you need to let your daughters go out on date more often........

at least that that would stop you from worrying too much about Allah mian and his Profit.........

Re: # 127

laddu mian,


.... your head is a small price to pay for peace and tranquility in pakistan ...... look on the bright side - a ritual beheading by a blue blood descendent of ghazni will stop you from unnecessarily shaking your head sideways all the time .....

Re: # 124

rebel prince mian,

..... why? ....... do you have a better idea?

according to imran khan, hamid gul and other apologists for the taliban, the only reason these people are fighting the state of pakistan is because we are joined in an unholy alliance with the americans, hidoos and jews against the mohammedans ......... if that is the case, we have no choice, do we? ...... we have to dump the americans and the israelis and start a war against the infidels on our borders ......... that is the only way to stop these people from killing barbers and molesting sheep .......

Re: # 123

"let's go, now! .... after seeing the horrible hidoos loose their heads on this forum, i am all for beheading them for real .......... ya ali allah!"

Hamid mia,

tumhara demag kharaab ho gaya hai ......stop reading that book of hate and going to jumma namaz (which you obviously do)........... it is a progressive disease and you have to stop taking this Islami drug if you are to regain your senses......

Anyway, it's nice to see there are so many Indians who don't have to work for their living. Posting day in day out on paki affairs, with press cuttings, quotes, tons of free advice and all - this needs a leisurely lifestyle, not everybody's cup of tea. And all for the salvation of you ungrate pakis!

Re: # 123 hamidm, I see your sharp wit is unable to pierce some seafaring battlehardened skulls. Arjun is right when he says, there is no deluded like a pakideluded, hahaha.

Re: # 123

hamidm2: are you for real or from cloud cuckoo land?

the only solution .........

.... we can end this terrorism problem inside pakistan tomorrow if we start a war with india ...... every omar, qasim and abdullah armed with a kalshnikov and a suicide vest will forget about his 'war' against the poor political agent and the local nazim and focus on the real enemy - the horrible hindoo ....... .... none of these jihadis are against the state of pakistan - they are simply against cd shops, barber shops and women ........ as soon as we start a war with the infidel they will forget these petty grievances and get on with the business of beheading real kafirs instead of mere munafiqs, murtids and mirzaees ...........

.... let's go, now! .... after seeing the horrible hidoos loose their heads on this forum, i am all for beheading them for real .......... ya ali allah!

Re: # 111
Mohar whatever...there is no humanity in a kalshnikov wielding assassin.But there is in the very ordinary people.There is no denial that Pakistan is spiralling out of control and is a failed state and the terror capital of the world.But evry brave voice of dissent within Pakistan must be supported.And there are a few..like some utterly fearless journalists who dont fall for any of the official spin.Yes, but the viper of terrorism which has been bred in Pakistan has to be defanged.How that will happen I am not sure.But any lapse into anarchy will definitely impact India;its in India's self interst that Pakistan come back from the edge..

Re: # 105

hahahaha..no worries.Am used to going against the current:-)

..... it is really nice to see the horrible hindoos so concerned about events in pakistan .....

........ someone - i think it was ahmed madani sahib - suggested that this attack was orchestrated by the indian cricket board which has the most to gain from cricket matches being cancelled in pakistan ............ so far that is the most plausible theory - the rest of them involving let, ltte, raw, al-qaeda and taliban are just red herrings ........

paging prophet tahmed(peace be unto his self-righteous rear)...the vast pandit hate conspiracy against the land of the pure kicks into high gear...

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2009/03/06/1235842584734.html?page= fullpage#contentSwap1

Lahore security was shameful, says Murali

AS THE cricket world stepped up security yesterday, Pakistan came under fire for providing "shameful" protection to players and officials during Tuesday's terror attack in Lahore.

Sri Lankan spinner Muthiah Muralidaran, the greatest wicket-taker in the game's history, launched a stinging attack on Pakistan's security forces, adding weight to the testimony of Australian umpires Steve Davis and Simon Taufel, who described how they were abandoned during the gun battle.

Eight people, including six security forces, were killed in the ambush by 12 masked gunmen armed with Kalashnikovs, grenades and a rocket launcher.

In Durban, South African authorities responded by increasing the previously low-key security for the Australian team on the eve of tonight's second Test. Ricky Ponting and his team were accompanied at training by security personnel wearing bullet-proof vests and carrying massive machine guns.

This came as questions were asked about why the Pakistan team, which would normally have been part of the convoy travelling to the ground, left five minutes after the Sri Lankans and officials, and Lahore police conceded they had been warned of a possible attack.

Muralidaran, in an interview with The Age, said the security arrangement was the worst he had seen, and vastly inferior to that provided in Sri Lanka, where specially trained armed guards travel with the team.

"The security was not good enough and we were sitting ducks because of that," he said.

"The security people we had didn't even seem to fight back. Were they professionals with enough training? They didn't seem to know what to do. I was surprised the terrorists were able to just reload the magazines and keep firing, and they never got caught. It was shameful. If this had happened in Colombo they would never have got away."

While the bus made a successful dash to Gaddafi Stadium, the officials in the van behind were left stranded after their driver was killed. "You tell me why supposedly 25 armed commandos were in our convoy and when the team bus got going again we were left on our own," Taufel said at Sydney airport on his return yesterday.

Davis said he thought the passengers of the van were "goners". "All the windows were being shot in and the glass was going all over us, the side door opened and I looked from where I was laying and I saw a (man in) uniform with a pistol and I thought this is an insider come to do us away," Davis said. "I thought I was gone then, I thought we were all gone."

He said when a police officer was later asked to drive the van away by English match referee Chris Broad he refused, saying "I can't drive", and ducked for cover.

"Eventually another police officer came from somewhere, opened the front door, got rid of the (dead) driver — it sounds terrible — but he took his body out of the car and hopped in, and away we went at a million miles an hour with the door flying open."

Broad expressed similar sentiments, saying that instead of the "presidential-style" security they were promised, forces fled and "left us to be sitting ducks". He also questioned the late departure of the Pakistan team: "Did someone know something and they held the Pakistan bus back?"

Taufel echoed that sentiment. "There are a lot of questions. I mean the first two days both team buses left at the same time. The third day the Pakistan team bus leaves five minutes after the Sri Lankan one. Why did that happen?" Taufel said.

Pakistan Cricket Board chief Ijaz Butt hit back at the criticism, rejecting any notion of a conspiracy and calling Broad's comments about fleeing security forces a "lie". "How can Chris Broad say this when six policemen were killed?" Mr Butt asked. He said Pakistan would lodge a protest with the ICC about the comments.

10 % increase in country’s crime rate
Saturday, March 07, 2009
Shakeel Anjum

Islamabad

Countrywide crime rate went up by 10.10 per cent during the year 2008, statistics submitted to the Interior Ministry have revealed.

The comparative crime statistics indicated, alarmingly, upward trend in heinous offences including kidnapping for ransom, murders, highway dacoities and robberies, bank and petrol pump lootings, armed dacoities and robberies by 20.76 per cent.

This is a widespread believe that fewer than 10 per cent street crimes are reported and the police, mostly, avoid registering even heinous crimes so as to ‘maintain’ a low crime rate.

/////////////madani saab////////////

Helping pakistan - advice from an indian.

No doubt crimes will keep i9ncreasing in pakistan as industries lose down, more pakis return from oveseas with ball and chain and as many refuse entry for pakis.

What is noted above in statistics do not include jihadic crimes, these are not reported, as they are committed in the name of religion.

The same is true for honor killings. Take it from me, under the hoodood ordinance, murder is not a crime against the state, it is not a criminal offense, the relative of the killed has to pay for teh prosecution. Hence in the above statistics, most of the murders in pakistan is not included.

Hence take it easy, the above data will look good in two years as the crime soars.

What these media pundits, caught up in their own misguided zeal, seem not to realize is that they are in fact hurting Pakistan's interests rather than serving them. While there may have been an attempt to emulate the Indian media in the aftermath of the Mumbai attacks, the fact is that resorting to the level of immaturity and bigotry displayed by their Indian counterparts does no good at all. Pakistan would have created a far better impression of itself had it shown the capacity to rise above the level of the Indians and demonstrate a true desire to discover who was behind the attacks, rather than merely pointing in a particular direction.

///jang editorial////////////

Stupidity keeps coming.

The editor of jang has to accept the truth that the indian media turned out to be correct, all of the jihadis were pakis...and under the US pressure the paki govt had to accept that.

In the present case, the bus route was changed so that teh jiahdis could mount the attack.

Take it from me editor, no one will be caught for the lahore attack, the same for the benazir killing, it is pure ISI job.

SURRENDER JUST KEEPS COMING....

The next place to be surrendered by the paki army will be peshawar, with in one year.

//////////from jang/////////

7 security men among 8 killed in Peshawar blast
Updated at: 1135 PST, Saturday, March 07, 2009
PESHAWAR: Eight people including seven policemen were killed while many injured in a blast that ripped through near police check post in Budhber area in the outskirts of Peshawar on Saturday.

According to sources, an explosive-laden car was detonated in Afridiabad area that killed eight people including seven policemen and wounded several.

Bomb disposal squad told Geo News that thirty kilograms of explosive was planted in a car.

The deceased identified as ASI Afzal Khan, ASI Faqir Shah, Constable Ghaffor, Constable Khan Bahadur, driver Saifullah, FC officials Abdul Rauf, Rais Khan and passerby Abdul Ali.

Masadi sahib continues to remain in unjust detention a week one. You are requested to protest at this. Posting on his behalf:

Obama's call for "College for All" (1) is simply to relieve pressure on the labor market. With 2 million jobs lost and 5 million more expected to be lost, some damage control needed to be done to ensure that millions don't roam the streets or develop some form of class consciousness when they see millions in their condition. Whereas "change" is shown by such drastically "humane" rhetoric about education, the inhumane policies of provoking coups abroad by the U.S. government is still intact.

General Kiyani visits the US (Feb 22), has discussions with the higher officials who tell him (in all probability) that they have "great hopes" for him (as they've told several previous "coup making" generals). (2)

The Pakistani courts (always subservient to the military), following the meetings, dismiss the opposition leaders (Feb, 25) and the ensuing civil disturbances during the past few days will culminate in a possible new martial law, making army rule all the more attractive (by pitting the populace against each other)after its all time low at the end of the Musharraf regime. This is occurring at a strategic point in time,just as the new U.S. administration's (old) plans for Afghanistan take shape. (3).


1. http://www.usatoday.com/news/ education/2009-02-26- educationbudget_N.htm
2. http://timesofindia. indiatimes.com/ articleshowpics/4197977.cms? TOI_Home
3. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/ 02/28/opinion/28sat1.html

TNITC masadi

PS: Apparently it is 4.5 million lost jobs by now.

There are not normal pakis.(We have no community colleges or social science studies that is western trick to give degrees and make many feel better and feel educated and make feel masses that they are something). We are not normal country.
Hope it answered you difficult answer.( It appears they taught lot in IIT college but no common sense) If you shoot all liberals here or there and feed to sharks in arabian sea we are not going to miss them.
Good day.

Re: # 95

Some foreign powers want pakistan to go down drain in every way like India, Usa, Israel, Afghanistan, UK and western countries ( exception is only KSA and china)

Madani Saap ji, are you a normal paki?
Adn do you live in the pure Arab wannabe land called bakistan?

Please answer in yes or no to the questions above...

The next one of those *liberals* from India want me to say if I have met a common paki I will be able to say yes to them.

Chowkies! You may indulge in as much of 'baatein chodna' here, but one thing is clear - Pakistan will never give up on its policy of bleeding India with a thousand cuts. Mind you in the process it is willing to lose Baluchistan, allow talibanisation of the whole country, let the Pakistani economy go to dogs but it must realise its dream of 'Kashmir banega Pakistan'
So, those who hope that the jehadis and jehadism will disappear in Pakistan, in turn leading to normal relations between Pakistan and India are being impractical. It is too much to expect of a population nursed on anti India poison over the last 60 years by the Military-Bureaucrat combine.
India must therefore suspend for at least twenty years any CBMs and let the no war no peace situation continue. India will be much happier.

Re: # 99 baghi
[...Demonising is the easier option...]

yep, we are hearing that one for last 20 years: "pakis are just like us, just give them another chance"... all the while things have become progressively worse, islamic evil has grown stronger, jihadis used to be just rag-tag fighters in the shadows - but now they actually own their territory...

Actually - people like you have taken even easier option - you have refused to understand the reality so that you can avoid the "moral hazard" of branding people as "demons", even though those people are exactly that... you are so afraid of "losing" your "humanity" that you have actually refused to recognize the people who are destroying that cherished humanity...

pakis are not like us, pakiland is not an oppressed civil society, held against its own will, waiting to break free ... islamism is what they have created and whole-heartedly supported and will continue to do so... you can see the posts right here defending taliban and their recent takeover...

This is not "demonising", this is the way things are...

aww...prophet tahmed is pissed...he went to the grocery store and was standing in the checkout line. there was one person ahead of him and one person behind him. then there was the cashier. given the fact that only 12% of americans have a positive rating for pakiland, he figured out that he was surrounded by people who dislike pakiland

Re: # 90 spy

I was para-phrasing the mindset of naive indian intellectuals like Mr Baghi... These people are always ready to give pakis another chance forever - no matter how many times that has been tried and has backfired... all in the foolish expectation that somehow such acts of one-handed peace overture will rouse the non-existent paki "civil society" which will overcome the forces of darkness and we will all live happily ever after... LOL

These people refuse to understand the basic nature of the paki beast, their mindset, and what drives them - even when it stares them in the face starkly for years... they still believe in "we are one people" bullsh!t and things will work out just by wishful thinking - despite all evidence to the contrary...

#106 thanks for the intro, monkeyman. did you take your lithium for today?

=== Interact Filtered ===
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Baghi_Shehzada: let me introduce you to prophet tahmed(peace be unto his self-righteous rear)...he's your kind of paki..he's fine with indians...as long as they don't bring up the fact that the paki state supports jihadis that commit terrorist acts all over the world...introduce any facts into the discussion and you'll lose the prophet seal of approval..

in short, you have to act like pakiland is a completely innocent victim that has never supported terrorism...if not, there goes your prophetboy seal of approval, the mark that all indians crave...

baghishehzada: i give you 10 days on chowk before you will succumb to the "jerks and losers" as you aptly put it. to paraphrase Dante, "All positive vibes abandon, thee who enter Chowk".

mr. madani: if the crooked zardari did not have a benefit from protecting mushy's ass, mushy would have been hung by the neck for his multiple crimes against pakistan. you and your kind who cling to mushy because of the ethnic affiliations that you people cant see beyond can go to hell.

#98 Posted by Baghi_Shehzada on March 6, 2009 4:03:06 am

how many nazis have you met? or people of the lord's resistance army? or taliban?

in any case, how many pakis have you met...what percentage of the paki population have you met?

Re: # 101 Do you mean to say things are better under Bhutto and PPP company limited ?
Are we not now more dependent of Foreign largeness ?
Is law and order better ?
Does GOP control Tribal areas or B.Stan.
Dogma against MQM and general is clouding mind.
Any way people who had ill will towards general are getting what they wanted, now plaese do not complain, you asked for it you got and be happy.

Re: # 100
oh no not mushy...that's even worse

Re: # 96 Many people are now sorry for their stupid attitude as they were all aginst President General Musharraf. Some times people make mistakes and regret of what mess they have made. Atleast he was moderate and able to "control" americam masti by giving them just enough to keep them happy and same time helping otherside. There were no such widesprewad problems like this. Under his watch KSE zoomed to ten times when he took over people with equities became well to do. Law and order was under "control". When he use to say any thing americans use to listen and try to please him. Now american have gone out of control.
Any way he is not out. The critical time has passed when he was under mortal danger of prosecution and even get death sentence. HIs is fighter he disappeared and is now advising presidet Zardari. Her still weight in PML(Q) and good relationship with MQM and its supreme leader. He screwed royally NS for his hatred towards him. I agree his time has passed but still he can act as major shaker and PPP and president can not touch him. When he gave NRO people called him fool for giving rope to BB and Z to hang him. He changed situation by white washing bb and z company and has put president z and PPP in trap. May be time to rethink with terror ruling in traibal areas , B.stan ,NWFP and now even in Lahore. It is hard to admit for nation for mistakes that is problem. Hope no bad news today. Good day.

Re: # 98

I know one from Attock..not far from Islamabad.a dead ringer for Mahatma Gandhi and as gentle in temperament.Would tell me stories about his brother in the army fighting the dushman and apologiseprofusely when I reminded him I too was a "dushman".Pretty soon,the ridiculouness of all these divisions becomes apparent.All he was worried about was educating his children and getting them married and settled in life.Didnt see any horns on his head..Demonising is the easier option.

Re: # 97

how many middle class Pakis have you met?

#96 Posted by Baghi_Shehzada on March 6, 2009 3:51:17 am


but till they turn their backs on Fundamentalism


you're deluded if you think pakis will give up fundamentalism..pigs will fly before that happens...

as far as i am concerned, pakiland and pakis are the enemy...period end of story...

Re: # 94

There is not much hope in the Military/ISI/Terror factory complex..but there is hope in the civil society which could start the process of de-indoctrination and mind numbing revisionism(I did come across perfectly decent Pakistanis in the West who would ask me in genuine sincerity"why have you seized our Kashmir?")..okay the drivers bro fought in Kashmir..Cassab got pissed off because he didnt get new clothes for Eid..but the guy did drive the bus under fire.
The ridiculous ease with which they melted away either points to utter complicity or complete security failure..doesn't seem to be so.The Indian team was guarded very well in 2004 abd 2007.

Not that ordinary Pakistanis have to be interested in our prescriptions, but till they turn their backs on Fundamentalism,this Monster will grow and consume them.

Expect a summer full of violence in the land of the pure..

It is international operation by sofesticated intelligence agencies to damage sport ,image and money coming from sport of cricket. When money is involved people and companies can be very vicious. IPL is indian company want to make money out of love of people for cricket. They are their to make tons of money and give damn to gentleman's game. They do not want games played outside India as they can not make more money. Some foreign powers want pakistan to go down drain in every way like India, Usa, Israel, Afghanistan, UK and western countries ( exception is only KSA and china). Who ever planned this operation is successful as they achieved what they want. Now other countries can give always excuse of law and order. Only Bangladesh team will visit Karachi in near future. This extremely disadvantages to national economics of cricket organization.After 18 months probably nonwhite teams and countries can send teams to play. One year there will be no foreign teams playing on grounds of Karachi and Lahore. Fortunately nothing is as bad as you can think, time will heal this things and foreigners will slowly come back, patience is virtue.

#93 Posted by Baghi_Shehzada on March 6, 2009 2:53:56 am


When in an earlier post I said "peace is the only way",it did not mean to give bear hugs to Jihadists,fundamentalists and those who aid and abet them.


you do realize that "those who abet them" includes the vast majority of pakis, right? even the driver who saved the lankan team had a brother who went to kashmir to do the jihad thing and got sent to allah's whore house by indian security forces...

When in an earlier post I said "peace is the only way",it did not mean to give bear hugs to Jihadists,fundamentalists and those who aid and abet them.
Somewhere in that chaos which is Pakistan, something akin to the lawyers movement should emerge(I have no idea how) which could break this nexus between the hate-filled jehadists,the ISI and their backers in the Army(well nearly the entire army).It is clear that ever since 1971 the principal agenda of the powerful army establishment in Pakistan has been the dismemberment of India or Death by a thousand cuts.
There is no doubt that in spite of a million faults,and endemic corruption,India is a free society with deeply embedded democratic institutions.
Pakistan has never had the chance to emerge into that reality.Perhaps if by some miracle,or under duress,the process of dismantling the mechanisms of terror and confining the Army to the barracks and the Acceptance of Kashmir as non-negotiable(post the instrument of accession) becomes reality in Pakistan,the elemnts which will bring that about deserve our support.
The lines of Europe were drawn in blood..you can now drive across all of Western Europe seamlessly.It may sound like a pot induced hallucination, but who knows.40,50 years later?

If there is any growth in that direction-i.e towards Pakistan becoming a genuine democracy,it should be encouraged.

Undeniable links between Pak govt and LeT: Former US intelligence officer
6 Mar 2009, 1343 hrs IST, PTI
Print Email Discuss Share Save Comment Text:

WASHINGTON: Terror group LeT, blamed for the audacious Mumbai attacks, has an "undeniable link" with the Pakistan government which saw it as a
useful tool to keep an "insurgency" brewing in Jammu and Kashmir, a former top American intelligence officer has said.

"LeT is an Islamist Pakistani group that has got, certainly in the past — and there's a question about how much it still has in the present — cooperation and sponsorship from elements of the Pakistani government itself," Paul R Pillar, the former National Intelligence Officer for the Near East and South Asia, said.

/////////////////////////

Till ISI is dismantled, the terror attacks will keep coming. Many in the ISI belive that the jihadis are the true 8inheritors if jinnahs vision

SPY,

Re: 90

For starters they want Kashmir.

Regards

Re: # 70
"give the pakis some carrots to make them happy... peace is the only way..."

I agree peace is the final way we must target, as we cannot change geographical neighbours.

Let us hear what carrots the Pakis want, that can make them happy.

A few questions.

How did the jihadis know of the changed route.

Not even a single jihadi was injured

Why no one chased the jihadis

Not even a single shot was fired at the jihadis.

No one was killed in the shoot out, all were killed by the jihadis.

Then of course, why the standard ISI procedure of washing the crime scene by the fire trucks, as it was done for banazir, not followed in this case.

"More saddening are the broader consequences of such an attack for Pakistan. An incident like this one presents an extremely negative perception of Pakistan; a perception that compels increasing number of people not to engage with it. The news items in western papers about rising presence of Taliban in Pakistan indeed build a negative perception of the place in the minds of many. But, still in that case there is room for argument that the Taliban or militants are mainly focused on domestic concerns and are in struggle with the state. With attacks like these, or those on foreign consultants and UN diplomats, it becomes much more difficult to salvage Pakistan's image. When foreigners have no security left in the country it becomes very difficult to argue with them that they should still care to engage with it."

The above is by madooda bano in jang.

This shows the flawed mind set of the pakis. Instead of accepting the reality of pakistan, most pakis are worried about the image of pakistan. What image my dear pakis, it is the truth.

Take it from me, there is no image for pakistan, people are seeing teh truth, the reality of what is pakistan.

Pakistan is not the islamabad club that hmaidm talks about, or the so called great time that some usa born children had watching the eid killings and the dead bodies in swat that some chowk posters mentioned...it is the lahore teh swat the marriot that is the reality, the home grown and supported terror, supported by the collection boxes in the mosques, by the isi.

When the jihadis attacked mumbai, the tahmeds and romair chuckled, asked what was the mighty indian navy doing, they have failed in protecting the shores.

In lahore, the visitors were on a VVIP to presidential security operation, so we are told. Again it failed, or did it fail.

The facts show that they did not fail. At the last minute the route was changed under ISI instructions.

Not even a single jihadi was killed while so many police guys got killed. Clearly there was no additional security, the so called VVIP security was a dozen police men. Clearly this was intentional.

The most important aspect is that the politicians and the police are blaming the indians.

Lahore is a ISI 101 operation in support of the jihadis. The very same forces that have created the swat are the ones doing it.

#79 Posted by _ar_jun64

"6. this attack will hurt pakiland's image"

Hurt what? You are stupid.

#83 Posted by harish_hyd

These robots have been produced only to defend wrong things and write shayries in praise of cowards.

Harishbhai,

There was also a footage of the terrorists driving away on a bike and a police van passing by in the opposing side without any attempt to intercept the terrorists.

Regards

#81 by RiazHaq

No amount of badmouthing by bigoted commentators on this forum nor any carping by the ungrateful Brit or Aussie will change the fact that they escaped alive because of police protection.

Riaz mian, do you realize how ridiculous you sound? If you were one of the passengers in the bus or the van behind, you would be carping too, even though you might be a diehard Paki. MOST of the cops fled, the few who chose not to, fought bravely and died.

Did you see the CCTV footage of the bylanes of Liberty Chowk that shows how the terrorists made their cool getaway? It shows that they had absolutely no fear that they would be chased down.

Unfortunately, many foreigners in Mumbai didn't live to either carp or be thankful for their lives.

What a foolish argument! the Mumbai terrorists came specifically looking for foreigners; they knew they'd find them in a star hotel. The Lahore terrorists came specifically to target the Lankan players. Apples and Oranges.

Riaz Haq sb,

Re: 81

People in Mumbai died becuase the terrorists had come to kill and get killed. Same ways with Marriott your "brave" policemen couldnt prevent foreigners from getting killed, could they?

Regards

No amount of badmouthing by bigoted commentators on this forum nor any carping by the ungrateful Brit or Aussie will change the fact that they escaped alive because of police protection. Unfortunately, many foreigners in Mumbai didn't live to either carp or be thankful for their lives.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

"1. Unlike the Lahore attackers, the Mumbai attackers were on a suicide mission and fought a determined and long battle killing lots of civilians while mocking Indian authorities for almost three days."

The Mumbai operation was well planned and executed, the attackers were taking drugs to stay awake during the raid. The fundamental difference here is that unlike Lahore, all the terrorists were killed or captured.


"2. Unlike Mumbai police, ATS and Indian commandos, Lahore Police were able to protect their charges from hostage taking or being killed while sacrificing their own lives."

Wrong. The police melted away during the encounter according to Chris Broad, an English umpire, who was angry at the response of security personnel. The only reason the Sri Lankan team survived was because the Pakistani bus driver did not stop the bus thus depriving the terrorists of a target.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7924210.stm


"3. Unlike the Mumbai attackers, the Lahore attackers staged an ambush and ran away when the police responded."

The terrorists ran away because there was no longer a target present not because of the police.

#78 Posted by RiazHaq on March 5, 2009 3:51:42 pm

even by paki inbred standards, you are retarded..

1. the bombay attackers attacked people who weren't being protected by the police.

2. the bombay attackers hid behind civilians.

3. all the bombay attackers except one were killed

4. the aussie umpire has made it clear that your cops chickened out

5. all the lahore attackers got away.

6. this attack will hurt pakiland's image. the bombay attack made no difference. the england team was back in a short time. now even sri lanka won't be coming to pakiland. in terms of impact, this was another nail in pakiland's coffin.

Lahore cricket attacks appear to have unleashed yet another wave of pundits of pessimism and prophets of doom and gloom about Pakistan. In spite of the obvious differences, most find it convenient to compare Lahore and Mumbai, just as they compared Mumbai with 911 attacks. While it was clearly a significant security lapse, the parallels with Mumbai are only superficial. Here are some of the obvious differences between the two tragedies:

1. Unlike the Lahore attackers, the Mumbai attackers were on a suicide mission and fought a determined and long battle killing lots of civilians while mocking Indian authorities for almost three days.

2. Unlike Mumbai police, ATS and Indian commandos, Lahore Police were able to protect their charges from hostage taking or being killed while sacrificing their own lives.

3. Unlike the Mumbai attackers, the Lahore attackers staged an ambush and ran away when the police responded. The fact that all of them were able to flee without a serious chase is still something to be very seriously concerned about and it requires better preparation and training for the future.

The nature of the attacks and attackers appear to be very different leading one to conclude that Lahore is not the work of the known Jihadi groups operating in South Asia. Some domestic radical groups in Pakistan could be the perpetrators but it is more likely the work of mercenaries hired by external elements for carrying out a covert action to terrorize Pakistan as supposed pay back.

Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Re: # 76 mullah32

how does anybody's "real life" situation affect the topic under discussion?... In fact, someone bragging about their unrelated "accomplishment" to score debating points is a sign of their weak position in the logic of their argument to begin with...

this Baghi dude went off on a tangent on his hallowed career as a marine engineer only because his bluff was called and he has little else to back up his argument... he reduced himself to school yard type banter - "my dad is such and such so I know more than you" type of argument... LOL

Any case - it makes no difference... reality on ground is what matters... as matters stand - pakiland today is a basket case full of jihadis and crazies, vast swathes of land is being talibanized and terrorized as we speak... this is exactly what we told you is going to happen if you do not change your ways... you didn't listen then and you still don't get your head out of your self-rigteous a@@...

it's your funeral - enjoy... LOL

#64 in one post you have told more about yourself than most losers and jerks like moron11 and arjun62 and jay thakeray who have been hanging out on chowk for almost a decade, carefully hiding not just their identity but also any mention of their real lives. clearly they have nothing to write home about when it comes to their real lives.

baghi_shahzada #69 i think you got it right when you say chowk is basically populated by losers and jerks. i must admit acting like one sometimes - too many years wasted on chowk i guess.

subhashjoshi: actually this absurd indian habit of using terms used in the west for different situations in the context of the sub-continent will have to go before we can have real peace.

thus, "peace-mongers" is from the cold war days when the US and USSR. what we have in india and pakistan is not cold war but merely the great tradition of bickering with the neighbors that is practiced in household across india, and simply overflows across indian borders to pakistan.

Finally, the proof has been found.

[One of the attackers shouted, "qatal kar do..qatal kar do sabka". The correct word in Urdu is qatl, not qatal.

Also, forensic analysis by top Pakistani experts has shown that some of the attackers were carrying packets of asaphoetida (aka heeng) in their bags, a putrid-smelling substance that is used in Indian cuisine across the border, but singularly abhorred by Pakistanis... .]

Now peace-mongers like me can relax.

Re: # 69
baghi sb,
don't worry about Pakistan imploding and becoming a black hole. when it happens India and the world will deal with it. let me wish good luck to both.

Some things are so serious you can only laugh about them.

Re: # 69

you are the one who is smoking the illusory peace pipe, your naivete is astounding... while my assessment is grounded in reality...and yet you are accusing me of lack of "maturity"?... LOL

Pakiland collapse will be a big problem for everybody, india included... which is exactly my point - that we should be guarding against that inevitable outcome, instead of making asinine "same-same" statements and talk sweet about "humanity is one"... what does that mean in the current situation anyway?...

pakiland situation is their own making - it has been building for years... we on this side of the border has always chose to ignore the impending calamity and hide behind wishful thinking and pretended everything would be fine: pakis are like us... we have our crazies too... give the pakis some carrots to make them happy... peace is the only way...

It didn't work, did it?... it made it progressively worse...

Of course - peace is the only way - but that cannot be achieved by just saying so... you have to understand the reality and prepare to neutralize the evil... just because you are pals with a bunch if marine pakis does not mean taliban are just tele-tubbies with beards...

Re: # 65

I am under no illusions that peace will happen..because I have spoken.anyway what you guys say here matters for nothing..there is no other way forward but peace.Not advocating a Gandhian solution(becaus eit is beyond humanity now)..but this conflagration will consume all.I thought Chowk might actually be a forum for serious discussion /dialogue.It seems largely populated by jerks and hate mongers.Yes it has all come home to roost for Pakistan, but it will not just implode..when it goes it will collapse like a black hole and India will get sucked in.Anyway,you need to be mature to see that.Sadly lacking in most of the interactions here...BTW,I was also 2o feet away from a bomb blast.I still think Peace is the only way.

PS: evil always has lurked in heart of man and will continue do so from time to time... in decades past, it used to be fascism, nazism and communism...

In the present times - islamism and bedounism is that manifest evil... it won't go away just because a marine engineer wants to ride high-horse and talks sweet about peace and humanity...

like nazism of past, islamism has to be destroyed by force... it won't be pretty...

Just a halfwit question, is it not possible to be a marine engineer and a leftist both?

Re: # 64 Yaar that post of yours below made it amply clear that you are a Marine Engineer, why cast another anchor?

Re: # 64
[...humanity is one...]

yep, now that the learned marine engineer has spoken, peace will happen... halleluiah... LOL

How many wars have been fought in last 100 years and how many have been killed across the world?... Noble as the statement shounds - Humanity has never been "one"... it won't reach that goal as long as islamism running amok in this planet...

get off the high horse - the high sea-horse that you have been riding all this while... LOL

Before I respond tohalf wit idiots..my profession took me across all the continents-during which I have survived an insurrection,dodged bullets in West africa ,been stranded near the saharaNew Yorkand Los angeles,survived fires and storms which would make strong men weep and pee in their pants..along with Pakistani,Bangladeshi,SriLankan Mates besides severalother nationalities..so am no cafe leftist you idiots..(whothink I am)..I am a Marine Engineer and proud of it..when youve done what i have done,including survived a vile wreck of a ship with a crew of Indians and Pakistanis..you jolly well know that humanity is one.Now piss off and grow up.

#62 Subhashjoshi, I thought of letting it go, but I couldn't resist! Sorry!

Re: # 59 NB, you know that, I know that, but tahmed (and other Pakistanis) don't know that, and while they are riding the equal-equal bogey, we can engage them constructively by suggesting such equal targets ....hahaha. So don't be a party pooper.

Before I respond tohalf wit idiots..my profession took me across all the continents-during which I have survived an insurrection,dodged bullets in West africa ,been stranded near the sahara,muggings inNew Yorkand Los angeles,Piracy in 3 continents,survived fires and storms which would make strong men weep and pee in their pants..along with Pakistani,Bangladeshi,SriLankan Mates besides severalother nationalities..so am no cafe leftist you idiots..(whothink I am)..I am a Marine Engineer and proud of it..when youve done what i have done,including survived a vile wreck of a ship with a crew of Indians and Pakistanis..you jolly well know that humanity is one.Now piss off and grow up.

Re: # 57 mullah32

Events are unfolding in pakiland almost exactly as we have predicted years ago... Like I have said before - pakis are islam-crazy and talibanisation of pakiland is inevitable... well, it has started with taliban take-over of swat...

I have said before and I am telling you now - pakiland will soon implode... the process has started already...

Baghi dude wants peace, we all want peace, but if wishes were horses then everything should be honky-dory... just by making sweet wishful statements, peace wouldn't happen...

Peace ain't happening anytime soon in pakikand - not until pakiland completely collpases and their current structure is neutralised and their islamic-mentality is cleansed...

People of pakiland have to pay the price of their stupidity, there is no way around it... Hopefully, a stable state will emerge afterwards, but that's way off in the distance...

Tahmed, subhashjoshi is having you on. There is no mention of religion in the Indian passport form. I'm not sure why he's doing that, but I don't know how his trying to be a better interactor in your eyes would have changed things if the passport form did ask that question.

subashjoshi #50 one way to get references to religion deleted from both the indian and the pakistani passport, as you suggest, is to write letters to the editor - those go nowhere except let the writer get it off his chest. another way is to try and convince the decision-makers - that is easier said than done. i tried, e.g., to do that once by asking a friend of mine at the Pakistan embassy to at least get rid of the passport renewal form that goes out of its away to humiliate Ahmedis, and he simply told me he couldnt do it - the foreign office would be on his back for changing forms, and the foreign office wouldnt change the form because they dont want the mullahs up in arms on this, and dont give a damn anyway one way or another.

Better to take a simpler route - just try and not behave like these aforementioned subhumans who come on chowk. You cant change the world - but you can make sure you stay above the level of these specimen.

#51 baghi_shahzada: hollow insults/boasts by paper tigers like moron11 below living out their fantasies of being somebody on chowk have turned chowk into a cesspool, to which your post is like a breath of fresh air.

Re: # 52
[... It is a sobering reminder of the bankruptcy of the Indian (Leftist) intellectual establishment that this fundamental analysis of the problem of Pakistan and its consequences ...]

yep... indian "intellectuals" are busy drawing same-same parallels between "our crazies" and "their crazies"... see this fool in #51...

it's unbelievable how indian indian "intellectuals" just refuse to see what stares them in the face... this islamic monstrosity has been slowly unfloding for last 15 years, but all the while intellectuals have been twiddling their thumbs, making asinine statements (give peace a chance and what not) and generally burying their heads in the sands of "same-same" argument...

#49 Posted by Alphalpha on March 5, 2009 4:51:02 am

if I gave you the impression that i give a fuck about what you or anybody else here thinks, i apologize..

Re: # 51
[...Give peace a chance...]

And how exactly are you going to that?... by smoking afgan pot and singing kumbaya?... LOL

Peace does not happen by making sweet nothing statements or wishful thinking... peace happens when evil is eliminated... in this case - peace will happen only when islamists are neutralized and pakiland is cleansed of taliban and all other riff-raff like mullahs and closet-mullahs...

So don't feel sorry for pakis, they are the ones who created and supported this monstrosity from the begginning and still do... they are the ones who have to pay... it's just starting...

Peace is way off in the distance...

#51 Baghi_Shehzada, I don't like the guys at the Ram Sena one little bit, and essentially they are trying to control women just like the Taliban are. But don't go overboard with your comparisons. There is a huge difference between not being able to go to a pub, and not being allowed to go to school (though I know where I'd rather be). Give up the same/ same. It's not the same.

I am an occasional lurker here. This article review was in 2001 (the article in 2000) and predicted the trends we are seeing now. If someone has strong reasons on why this review/original article by Kaplan is flawed (the line of reasoning, not the motive of the authors), I'd be interested in listening to their point of view.

-- from 2001

The Indian establishment, obsessed with the insurgency in Kashmir, appears to have totally missed the cataclysmic changes taking place across the border that may soon render the Kashmir issue all but irrelevant. Here is the reality: Pakistan is now a state on the verge of collapse. While world attention is focused on the so-called nuclear flashpoint of Kashmir, the State of Pakistan is being overwhelmed by forces of history and geography. A state with less than a tenth the resources of India, Pakistan is forced to fight insurgencies on its frontiers perhaps ten times as great as in Kashmir. It is only a matter of time before the institutions of the state totally breakdown. And this is because of the fundamental irrationality of Pakistan, which is less a state than a turbulent frontier that a small Punjabi elite is attempting to hold together. This is the picture that emerges from a masterly study of the state of Pakistan written by Robert Kaplan, probably the world's leading reporter on the region (The Lawless Frontier, The Atlantic Monthly, September 2000).
...

With such mighty forces at play, it is clear that a Punjabi-Mohajir elite in a slender sliver of land cannot hope to control a vast and lawless frontier as Kaplan puts it. The only natural boundary between this frontier-land and the plains is the Indus River, which leaves Pakistan with no strategic depth. The question then becomes one of survival not exercise of authority. It also shows the futility of India placing trust in any Pakistani leader, in the hope of achieving peace in the region. No leader can control either geography or the forces of sectarian hate and violence that dominate the region. It is only a matter of time before the state crumbles under the weight. When that happens, all of Pakistan will become a lawless frontier. The only institutions left in Pakistan will be the madrasas or Islamic schools that turn out something like half a million students a year fit for nothing except jihad. Their first targets will the elite at home. They are already running the state in Afghanistan and much of Pakistan. Left unchecked, they will soon control all of Pakistan. The consequences for the region can be cataclysmic, and India should prepare for the inevitable outcome.
...
So here is what India will be faced with in the not too distant future. The state we now call Pakistan will be whittled down to Punjab and the regions east of the Indus River, struggling to protect itself from the forces of unruly frontiers controlled by warlords great and small in search of loot. This is what institutional meltdown will amount to. By one of those coincidences of history, this institutional meltdown in Pakistan is paralleled by a meltdown in the Indian intellectual establishment. It is a sobering reminder of the bankruptcy of the Indian (Leftist) intellectual establishment that this fundamental analysis of the problem of Pakistan and its consequences comes from a Western reporter in far off America and not anyone in India.
---
links from : http://www.bharatvani.org/books/cpak/

Re: # 42Mate,we've got to start sometime..in 1971,while there was an Indo-Pak war on,Sunil Gavaskar,Bishen Bedi,Zaheer Abbas,Wasim Bari played for a world XI against australia.If there is a will,there is a way..there is no real difference between a fatwa spouting Mullah who will order a fully covered Woman beaten in public if she as much as steps out without a male relative and hate spewing Ponga Pandit who will launch thugs at women for daring to wear jeans...why burden yourself with ancient hatreds...move on move ahead..go out anywhere in the world and see pakistanis and Indians as the best of friends.I am an Indian..as a student in England, a fellow student, a baluchi helped me and treated me like a guest of honour when no Indian would...somebody needs to stop this crap.I am deeply sorry for the people of Pakistan..okay so many did not die but this was as bad as Mumbai in impact.What crime did the poor Lankans commit?why should we let our world slip into barbarism?Think about it.and I am sick of all this puerile name calling on both sides.Give peace a chance.It is the only way.Amen.

Re: # 48 What's the point in arguing with people who would cut their nose to spite their face? There are better things to do than that.

Arjun, that reference to Tahmed's wife was disgusting!! Don't be an asshole....indians chop off their wives heads too or burn them in "kitchen fires" don't be a paki!

And this crap about foreign hand destroying chance at investment in pakistan is a stupid point by the pakistanis. Who in their right mind would choose pakistan as an investment destination? When your friends, china and saudi fail to bail you out and you are on IMF lifeline, MSCI drops you from their EM index....which fund manager would say..you know what that terrorist hub called pakistan seems like the next vietnam" pagal ho tum loag kya?

#45 Posted by Alphalpha on March 5, 2009 4:44:15 am


India and Indians are better citizens of this earth than the pakistanis.


I would post the opinion poll of Americans that had pakiland pegged at 12% but that would send prophetbpy into an even bigger rage...don't want him going and chopping his wife's head off or anything..like that guy in buffalo...

Re: # 40 & 42 Let's start with a small step. You get the mention of religion deleted from Pakistani passports and we get it deleted from Indian ones. What's your deadline for this target?

O love this futile attempt by pakistanis to bring parity in depravity of the two countries and the people. Get it through your heads. There is none. India and Indians are better citizens of this earth than the pakistanis. Some people make cars....others blow them up. It is about the kind of society and people you are.

#33 Posted by tahmed32 on March 5, 2009 3:22:56 am


are not pointing fingers at other countries.


first of all, no props for that because the world will laugh at you if you did that...

secondly, reality, with it's well known bias against inbredistan, strikes again...

from dawn..

Rehman alleges foreign hand in Lahore attack

ISLAMABAD: Advisor to the Prime Minister on Interior Rehman Malik on Tuesday said there was a possibility that external hands were involved in the gory attack on Sri Lankan Cricket team at Lahore cannot be ruled out.

‘We are investigating the incident and its preliminary investigation report will be presented before the parliament within 24 hours,’ the advisor told reporters outside the parliament house.

The country, he said, was ‘in a state of war’ adding that: ‘The government suspects foreign hand in the incident.’

Without elaborating the ‘external hand’ the adviser said the elements involved in the tragic incident were against Pakistan and could not see foreign investment, development and peace in the country.

#37 Posted by tahmed32 on March 5, 2009 4:14:41 am

so killing hundreds of thousands of pakis is now ok because the paki army, the biggest mob in pakiland did it?

#40 agreed. isnt it time indians and pakistanis got smart and instead of quarelling with one another went after the real bastards (pagal pandits, mad mullahs) together?? wont happen though - if chowk "experience" is any guide.

#38 i do both pagal pandits and sagacious savants, having too much time. :-)

One thing is for sure:between the Pagal pandits of India and the Mad Mullahs of Pakistan, we(the common people) of India and Pakistan are all fxxxd...

Godzilla is on the street;college boy look alike backpacking cleanshaven kids are killing like mindless zombies..who don't give a shxxt if you are Hindu,Muslim,Christian,Buddhist or whatever..and you guys cant get beyond pathetic name calling?

And anybody who is making a virtue of "Pakistanis not pinpointing fingers at other countries", first, he is being a liar, and second, they would, if they could (and they are, even when they can't, really. But ostriches come in many hues and shapes, perhaps.

Re: # 35 Isn't it time already to ignore the foolish antics of pagal pandits of India and address the sagacious savants of Pakistan?

#36 mobs of pakistanis chased down people in dhaka? did you OD on your medicine today?

#21 Posted by tahmed32 on March 4, 2009 4:54:59 pm


chase down and kill some unfortunate individuals


you're talking about the hundreds of thousands killed in bangladesh by your government?

think of sad things - how more innocent people were not killed. (if this is confusing to any sane individual - remember this is addressed to the pagal pandits of india).

jayp: your joy must know no bounds. you know what happens when you go out of control - you wet your lungi. so control your joy. think of sad things - how more innocent people were killed.

#32 not being indians, pakistanis (other than a few sad cases descended from sriram gopinath) are not pointing fingers at other countries.

Have they found some clinching evidence like the attackers saying julum instead of zulm, or kharodey instead of nehari etc.?

-E

Re: # 28
Aha_snark

Just wait for a couple of weeks.The bikes will be traced to Amritsar where RAW is training dreaded Counter terrorists and of course..they slipped across the Wagah border, just when all the Goose stepping was distracting everyone..there will be enough spin to make abdul Qadir's googly look like a straight ball.Just give the spin masters time....of course its the dastardly "hinjew zionists"..more crazed talk shows ..but enough...the truth is,Frankenstein is loose dear Pakistanis and hes not far away in those nasty mountains..he is right in your front vernadahs.This is the long kiss Good night.

Re: # 27

Banjara

yeh iron_mask kaun hai?

Ahmer,

Can you give me one single instance of a serious mistake or blunder on the part of Pakistan that was immediately owned up and accepted by it as such? Apart from your prejudice against India, is there so far even a single shred of evidence that the attack had anything to do with the Government of India?

Re: # 22

baghi
Please bear in mind-most intelligent Indians do not want Pakisytan to descend into chaos..if our neighbour's house is on fire and we stand and watch,it'll consume us too..
----

r u saying that iron_mask is not intelligent indian?

Taliban blow up Pakistan music shops: Police
5 Mar 2009, 1154 hrs IST, AFP
Print Email Discuss Share Save Comment Text:
PESHAWAR: Taliban militants blew up 16 shops selling music and DVDs in northwest Pakistan overnight, police said on Thursday.


"An improvised explosive device planted in a market selling music and DVDs in Takhtbhai town blew up 16 shops overnight," local police official Fazal Mabood said, blaming Taliban insurgents.

There were no casualties in the attack in the town, northwest of Peshawar, because the market was closed at the time of explosion, he added.

/////////////////////jang////

Ahmer, hits will keep coming as long as you pople keep telling that islam is a religion of peace, the jihadis are very few, may be a million compared to the people of pakistan. They are only a minority etc.

the above are told by the ilks of tahmed, urstruly etc..they are the educated of pakistan.

Then of course, poverty is the root cause of terrorism, that si why paki are blowing up london trains, indian hotels..then they continue and say that india has more poor. How come hindus are not blowing up london trains in the name of religion.

Re-sizing of pakistan is the only solution and that is the only way to crush the terror central

Lessons for the sri - lankans.

When india decided that pakistan is unsafe, and cancelled the cricket, the sri-lankans were wanted to show their friedship with pakistan, to show their better understanding of the paki situation.

What happened to teh sri-lankans should be an lesson for the others, india knows the best about pakistan. Even on chowk, indians have shown a better understanding of the paki situation.

Take the case of mumbai, the pakis on chowk like romair, tahmed etc along with the paki PM and officials were trying to show that the jihadis were not pakisa.

Now see what happened. It is time most pakis learn about their country form indians.

Ahmer, hang around, read my posts and learn about pakistan.

Ahmer,

These are not hits, they are just convulsions of a nation on the death bed.

The latest is a classic ISI operation, at the last moment the bus route was changed, a VVIP route, that will not be changed based on an anonymous call, that too by some military men who are used to commands. Clearly the instructions came from ISI.

The cool easy way in which the jihadis walked away, is a clear indication that the knew that they will not be caught.

Just short of washing the crime scene as they did in the case of benazir, the ISI have done everything less than that to erase any evidence that could lead to the killers.

One thing is sure, some poor afghans will be caught for the crime they did not do while the ISI will protect the real killers.

What is happening in the case of mumbai will be repeated, but in much simpler manner because the FBI and the israelis are not after the killers.

Re: # 21

ouch tauhmat ji ke aag lag gayee :)

and only because someone mentioned less emphasis on Islam in paki land (i dont think touhmat lives in pakiland, though).

Tauhmat ji, how about Sri Sri Ravi Shankar? Maybe he can teach a thing or two. I dont personally believe in him though, as far as dealing with Katwas is concerned. I prefer the modi approach. Hindus already knew it , but a whole lot of other cultures are beginning to realise what this cult is capable of ... and how they must be treated.

Gud night ji :)

Re: # 12

The two nation theory was blasted in 1970-71 when the Razakars and Mukti Bahini both salughtered each other yelling"god is great"-Culture won over Nationality.Bangladesh would not ahve happened so soon if Sheikh Mujibur Rehman had been made PM of all Pakistan..how could the Punjabi tolerate a dark skinned Bengalee as their PM?!!Pakistan has been a lost causeb since Jinah's death..nobody saw Pakistan the way he did.
RAW is corrupt,venal, kicked around by every babu..and more preoccupied with 'sexual harassment" cases lodged by its female officers.Please bear in mind-most intelligent Indians do not want Pakisytan to descend into chaos..if our neighbour's house is on fire and we stand and watch,it'll consume us too..there is no Indian Hand.This is Khalistan redux..as always,Pakstan a little behind in repeating Historical blunders..this is Taleban redux.There is no way out except to smash that monster of fundamentalism..else ordinary Pakistan will find their land of the pure devastated.Dont say I told you say.God save Pakistan...

kaurasach: and who do you plan to send over to teach pakis chivalry and humanity? one of the pagal kuttas who form mobs in India to chase down and kill some unfortunate individuals who happens to belong to the wrong religion, political party, or some other "reason"?? or one of the bride burners?? or the hindu heroes who burn children of missionary??

There'll be alot of
hogwash pointless misleading and petty dissections of the event...

Why not teach Pakis humanity and chivalary...instead of preaching them religion of peace

then you won't need all these measures.

crows have returned to roost....

as I repeated before, when someone teaches a dog to bite, one day it will bite the master....

happy biting

"I am however convinced that these ‘pakistani taleban’, some of them willingly and some unwittingly, are puppets in the hands of those that have a tilak on the forehead."

No shit Einstein! Do you really think So!

humza humza get a grip....you are losing it. Hinduism is stupid...we know that. All I am saying is that islam is also stupid. The inability for common abdul to see past the idiocy of islam is also the cause for what is happening in pakistan. when terrorists groups like "JAISH-E-MOHAMMED, "lakshar-E-Tayyba"..."Harkat-Ul-Mujeheddin" all clearly religiously alliated names with funding though chanda boxes and such in the name of gloriouos islam are now targetting your own....it is a religious issue as well. it cannot be separated from the other

Re: # 14

hamid mia,

I used it in the manner hindu and hindu-s are used.
Anyway, what is in these semantical differences- the essence of though is same.

But I beg to differ on the mark-of-satan on their fore heads as an important characteristic. One can be a momeen even without the mark.

I feel that the real defining mark is the mark made at the time of sunnat by the kasai. It is a permanent mark and momeens are reminded abut this covenant atleast a dozen times a day in the natural course of performance of various bodily functions.

This is the defining mark of a momeen. Whether he bows down or not - he has to carry the burden of Allah's branding all his life.

This sunnat has one of the greatest of all the defining impacts on every momeen.............. including murtids.....

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Re: # 11

laddu mian,

.... you have to get your terminology right if you are going to wage an effective war against islam on this forum - it is momeneen and not 'momeen' .......

........ the singular is 'momin' which means a pious person - these people can be recognized by the mark of the devil on their forehead (kind of like the tilak, except it is a natural bruise caused by constantly banging your head on the floor) and callouses on their ankles .......... the true momins on chowk include tahir mian and urstruly ...... masadi and tahmed mian are just momin wannabes ...........

... i hope that helps you in your mission

Humza, everyone wishes ill for pakistan...I don;t think there is a nation out there that thinks Pakistan has some redeeming qualities. Sri Lanks thought so, but now they too are duped like everyone else.

It is the jihadism stupid!!! You sound like a naiive child with your rhetorical bullshit of "security failure" and "people's job to prevent it"...it is too late my friend. You should have thought about this genie when LeT was holding reenactments of their attacks on Delhi and kashmir, in lahore to a gallery of thousands. Read the op-ed in todays NYtimes about the abdul paanwaala....he will blame everyone but the guys whoa re actually cutting the throats, beheading, blwoing up schools etc....why? because they have sexy names like Allah's army...and since Islam is a religion of peace.....terrorists cannot be muslim. It is the religion too...!!!! once you see that....there will be hope. Nothing is sacrosanct!!

Re: # 8
it was efficient enough to succesfully break our country in 2. i know we did everything we could to make that possible as well...but u r not giving raw thier due share.

Sir. You are being modest.

So momeens try to impose Shariah ........ other momeens under pay roll of west desist.........fight ensues ..... purer momeens follow Allah and take up AK-47 for Jehad........try to kill some kafirs indulging in kafir spoets on the pure momeen land.........

fail......

naturally Allah should never fail.....so it has to be hanuds ..

the logic is so simple......

i m not crying pampat...i m saying whoever is wishes ill for pakistan is doing the job well. there r ppl in pakistan whose job is to prevent that from happening....where the fukk r they? thats my RR.

"the goal wasnt to piss of lankans. it was to highlight the notion that pakistan isnt fit enough for any foreign investment and extremely dangerous to have nuclear weapons. that goal was achieved."

you think this is a revelation?LOL! Pakistan hasn't been fit for foreign investment for a long time now. MSCI dropped them from their Emerging market index...didn;t even put them in the frotier markets index. Simply dropped them....this means that no foreign investor with allocations for emerging markets or even frontier markets can ever put money into the KSE.

and you are crying about what this latest attack will bring to the reputation? come now humza...reality check!!

it was efficient enough to succesfully break our country in 2. i know we did everything we could to make that possible as well...but u r not giving raw thier due share.

if only people knew how hopelessly inefficient RAW is...

the goal wasnt to piss of lankans. it was to highlight the notion that pakistan isnt fit enough for any foreign investment and extremely dangerous to have nuclear weapons. that goal was achieved.

in the world of espionage there are 5 or 6 layers of middle men. colonel prouhit sharma wouldnt train the shooters himself...my hunch would be that raw is financing some groups indirectly in balochistan n fata. i m not complaining, thats what raw is supposed to do. its a theory but is it really that insane? why because hindoos r made of honey n sugar now?

Do you offer Tution Services in English ?

I guess that sums it all...

Author writes
"I am however convinced that these ‘pakistani taleban’, some of them willingly and some unwittingly, are puppets in the hands of those that have a tilak on the forehead"
=====================
Ahmer Muzzammil ,your thought process is absolutely................
Do you offer Tution Services in English ? You are simply great in the principle of "random juxtaposition"

you are blaming too many,diverse set of things 1.men with tilak on forehead 2.dictatorships 3.zardari 4 judiciary 5 police and investigative agencies 6 taliban. If you had correctly identified the culprit ie people of pakistan,you could have saved your time for betterthings and readers could have been saved of the cacaphony

I agree.There is no need for the "enemy with tilaks on their foreheads" when there are enough crazed Talibanis around.Its an interesting theory though..totally delusional and almost bollywood like-with Jehadist gunners and Safron masterminds..wake up and smell the coffee

For a moment I thought thank god, there's no mention of India. How mistaken I was. As long as Pakis refuse to confront the reality that they themselves helped create (to destroy their neighbors' country) and continue to live in a state of denial where everything is orchestrated by the enemy "with tilak on their foreheads", Pakistan's downward spiral will continue.