Pakistan's Long March to Democracy or Chaos

Re: # 235
hamidm2,sattar....
can you recall pre-war events (after 1991) concerning Iraq?...Iraq was subjected to inhuman sanction for more than a decade and that caused more deaths and destruction than any war....Iraq was a civilised country before 1991 (Literacy rate, women empowerment, healthcare, infant mortality rate....).
Now it is another arab country and may be little better than Pakistan....this is what US contribution towards Iraqis; brought Iraq closer to Pakistan in HDI index...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_sanctions_against_Iraq

nkg (#250),

… actually I am open to the possibility that it was all due to a typo … intelligence reports wanted to say Iran, and mistakenly said Iraq … and no one in pentagon knew the difference …

… they all behave like the uncouth arabs anyway, so I guess it really doesn’t make any difference …

Hamid mian,

dharnas, in and of itself, are not the issue. it is caving in to these dharnas that makes it problematic. "wacki pakis" (i like this) must resolve to continue on this "screwed" type of democracy. i know you will come back saying "democracy shamocracy humaaray mezaaj kay mutabic nahin." have you looked at iraq recently?

as for johnny-come-lately salman taseer, i dont know what glitterati you are talking about but he is a nobody to even the worse social climbers i have seen (and DC area is where they come for their pilgrimage or permanent residence, not Boondocks, Mich.).

hamidm #256 i admit to not visiting pakistan recently. true the gujrat boys would not be considered glitterati. but my point was - why are you so much in favor of a corrupt system and of "playing the game" when you cant even get a patwari do stop hassling you?? what good is a corrupt system when even the corrupt cant get anything done??

Hamidm#256, exactly yaar....having seen that a popularly elected gov't can cave into every thug with a "noble" mission, get ready for dharnas against dharnas.

dharna II

LAHORE: Pakistan Muslim League-N leader and former provincial law minister Rana Sanaullah has threatened to lay siege to the Governor House against the governor rule in Punjab.

........... what is next?


sufi muhammad zindabad!
baitullah mehsud zindabad!
qazi hussian ahmed zindabad!

Re: # 252

sheikh tahmed,

...... the pml-q is not part of the glitterati - qyt and hsy are ........ salman taseer wouldn't be ssen dead with the chaudhary taggas or, for that matter, the pehalwans of gowalmandi ........ he hangs out with the beautiful people and some gays ......... you really don't know anything about pakistan, do you?

paging prophetboy...paging prophetboy..


Anger in Pakistan at US plan to expand drone attacks

• Pentagon urges Obama to widen reach of strikes
• Islamabad warns of public backlash against move



* Saeed Shah in Islamabad and Ewen MacAskill in Washington
* The Guardian, Thursday 19 March 2009

Pakistan reacted with anger yesterday to an American proposal to expand its drone missile strikes inside the country against Taliban and al-Qaida targets.

Pakistani politicians and officials described the idea of extending military operations into the vast, south-west province of Baluchistan as provocative and counterproductive, and warned of a severe backlash if the US went ahead.

Sources in the US administration confirmed that the White House has received recommendations from the military about an escalation in the use of the CIA's unmanned drones to launch missile attacks. At present, attacks are confined to the tribal areas in the north-west of the country.

The recommendation calls for a renewed focus on targets in the economically backward province which has provided a stronghold for the Afghan Taliban and a sanctuary for al-Qaida elements. A source cautioned that Obama has not made a decision and could decide any military gains from expansion into Baluchistan may be outweighed by the public backlash, putting at risk the Pakistan government.

There is a reluctance to go into Baluchistan and the US hopes Pakistan's forces will fight the Taliban and al-Qaida. The US is to provide Pakistan's forces with increased military and civilian aid. The White House refused to comment on the possibility of using drones in Baluchistan.

The recommendation is part of a review of Afghanistan and Pakistan policy ordered by Barack Obama when he took over the White House in January.

The Washington Post reported on its website last night that another recommendation in the review is to send hundreds more US civilians to Afghanistan to beef up reconstruction. They would be drawn from departments such as agriculture and justice, and reflect the desire to match the military effort with a civilian one.

There is a reluctance in the US to start using the drones in Baluchistan, even though senior Taliban and al-Qaida figures operate from bases there with impunity. The Afghan government says Mullah Muhammad Omar, the Taliban leader, is based in Quetta, the capital of Baluchistan.

Abdul Basit, a Pakistan foreign office spokesman, responding to disclosure of the plan in the New York Times, expressed opposition: "As we have been saying all along, we believe such attacks are counter-productive. They involve collateral damage and they are not helpful in our efforts to win hearts and minds."

The Pakistani government, which described the report as speculative, has denounced such attacks as undermining the country's sovereignty.

Munawar Hassan, secretary general of Jamaat-i-Islami, Pakistan's biggest mainstream religious party, said the US would be pouring petrol on an already incendiary situation. "The United States has no message of peace for the world, they can only talk through arms and armaments," he said.

There has been disappointment in Pakistan that Obama has continued to use drones for attacks, a policy he inherited from the Bush administration. While al-Qaida operatives have been killed, innocent civilians have also died.

The US military regards the ability of Taliban and al-Qaida forces to conduct operations from havens in Pakistan as one of its biggest problems in Afghanistan.

US military recommendations also include the possibility of ground attacks by special forces in Baluchistan.

US forces conducted their first known ground raid in Pakistan last September, causing uproar.
Quetta: Taliban capital

Quetta is a frontier city about a three-hour drive from Kandahar in Afghanistan. During the British empire, it was a garrison and still has a large army cantonment. The provincial capital of Baluchistan, a vast, sparsely populated region, has since the 1980s become the home of tens of thousands of Afghan refugees, fleeing war in their home country. The ethnic Baluch are in a minority in the city, which is dominated by Pashtuns, the biggest ethnic group in Afghanistan, making it easy for Afghans to melt into Quetta. After 9/11, when the US and allies invaded Afghan, it is said that the Taliban leadership shifted from Kandahar to Quetta. Most notoriously, the high altitude city of about one million people is home to the "Quetta shura", the Taliban's ruling council, which directs the insurgency across the border.

Re: createalpha #211

My point exactly--look at who is backing the CJ (and even if one ignores his own background) and it becomes pretty clear that the CJ is being used to prepare the way for their own resumption of power. It is hilarious how every Pakistani politician becomes such a Usoolbaaz when out of power and reverts to their aslihat as soon as they get in power!

BTW, NS is not a feudal; he is (originally) from a lower middle class background. Our resident expert on all things sociological will be happy to enlighten us ad nauseum on the connection between fascism and the lower middle class--assuming he actually knows anything.

hamidm #243 when are the gliterrati of pml-q going to help you from stop getting the run around by a patwari???

Re: # 233
Alpha...
This is one step forward for a musla country/society, where people are not using "allahooo kaboom" to score any point...though this is minor deviation from islam, but somehow more civilised...suppose NS formed a armed gang and killed the existing SC judges and Zardari and installed its own set of judges....at least, it was nor armed revolution...may be, US forced the change in method....

Re: # 219
sattar...
GWBush has little less knowledge about geograpy and attacked Iraq, instead of your neighbouring Iran...little deviation of 1000km at most. Why don't you accept it as minor abberation? Somehow, the US marines has to use their armament somewhere. If it is not nuclear Iran, what else it would be?

JI concerned over prospects of more drone attacks
Thursday, March 19, 2009
By Our Correspondent

LAHORE

JAMAAT-E-ISLAMI secretary general Syed Munawar Hasan has expressed serious concern over the reports of Washington, considering expansion of drone attacks to Balochistan.

M


He said now that Swat peace deal brought peace in NWFP, Washington was trying to expand the ugly war to Balochistan on the pretext of Taliban.

He demanded that Islamabad should lodge strong protest with Washington on such moves, endangering country’s security and solidarity otherwise Washington could soon push this war to Sindh and Punjab also.

//////////at least the JI guy is very sensible, he knows that the drones are sure to come to sindh and punjab. Good on you JI leader, keep reading my posts.

#202 by majumdar

There are no angels in politics but for whatever reasons, NS has supported the right cause. Yes, I am aware of his bad behaviour in the past but then every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

How nice of you Majumdar bhai! I only wish you'd extended the same courtesy to Gandhi too. Or is it that only Pakis allowed to reform?

#202 by majumdar

There are no angels in politics but for whatever reasons, NS has supported the right cause. Yes, I am aware of his bad behaviour in the past but then every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

How nice of you Majumdar bhai! I only wish you'd extended the same courtesy to Gandhi too. Or is it that only Pakis allowed to reform?

#202 by majumdar

There are no angels in politics but for whatever reasons, NS has supported the right cause. Yes, I am aware of his bad behaviour in the past but then every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

How nice of you Majumdar bhai! I only wish you'd extended the same courtesy to Gandhi too. Or is it that only Pakis allowed to reform?

Re: # 243

Hamidm sahib:

"...... i was wondering if nawaz sharif will announce a long march to islamabad when ppp and pml-q announce that they are going to form the next government in punjab ......"

The question is who will go with him, the next time. Masadi Mian stayed back, even though he thought it was the best democratic happened in the world (my intepretation).

he'll spit the dummy, on the floor and throwing a paddy I'd imagine

along with a small part of the Punjab province ... which to some only means Lahore and a few surrounding districts

.......... i was wondering if nawaz sharif will announce a long march to islamabad when ppp and pml-q announce that they are going to form the next government in punjab ......

....... the games have just started ......... stay tuned

cheema,

Serving humanity is a noble idea and all ... but I still prefer wet t-shirt contests. And if those are held, I would donate 100% of my time, free of charge ...

hamidm sahib

the people you are referring to have no idea how to read between the lines and appreciate sarcasm and irony ... your talent is wasted here (sadly)

Re: # 236; sattar2

[[And I am all for having disney run mecca and madina, including wet t-shirt contests around hijaz]]

I am all for flattening the places in question down and building a hospital (or something else that can serve humanity better) ... if it happens to be a hospital, I am willing to donate 100 percent of my time free of charge! (and I am not kidding either!! ... I'll eat grass if I have to! ... its been 'prescribed' to me by my leaders before under similar circumstances to achieve 'higher' objectives)

Re: # 207; majumdar

[[Bong Muslims wud be in a majority in WB and Assam and then Ms Suzanne Arundhati Roy will be advising Indians to get azaadi from WB/Assam and WB/Assam azaadi from India!!!]]

its highly likely to be the 'former' rather than the 'latter' ... some of us are trying to do the same in Pakistan!

Error correction in 237

Sorry, I meant to write lungs and not luns ... What a difference one g (spot) can make!!? Sorry again, it must be a Freudian grip -- err, slip.

Inter-sect conflict on Chowk

Hey, what's going on here? Is this Chowk website or post-Soviet Afghanistan? The mujhaideen have turned their guns and luns towards one another: shouting expletives and denouncing each other, as if they were Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and Burhanuddin Rabbani. No wonder the Ummah never gets anywhere. They are too busy fighting each other the moment the true infidels slack off.

Mujahid Idasam and Maulana Ylurtsru are at each other's throat, and of course, they both hate Mujadid 23Demhat.

All hindus & Jews should take heart.

hamidm,

… ok, “biggest� may be debatable … but perhaps the “loudest�? After all, sahib did write the infamous article titled “An Open Letter� to support the war. And I understand that shit happens … remember uhud?

If juliet had a penis, loved football, and farted loudly while having dinner, that would make her a man. But till this happens, she remains a woman – good for her. If the wrong country is attacked, over false reasons, and the war execution too is bungled up … then what is right about this war? I only wish I had bought hallibutron back them. Now you know why I am bitter …

… granted, iraqis stood in long lines to vote … but what does it mean? They would do the same to see a mujra. And shame on them if they don’t …

And I am all for having disney run mecca and madina, including wet t-shirt contests around hijaz. Perhaps tahmed can write another article: “An Open Letter to Disney Shareholders� …

Re: # 233

sattar mian,

........ i resent that comment! ..... i am the iraqi war's biggest proponent, not tahmed ....... he is just a sheikh chilli come lately who jumped on my bandwagon when he saw the light of democracy spreading in that dark desert of bedouin ignorance ........ now, mind you, i think the war was poorly executed but, as old rummy would say, shite happens ...... and the shites did happen - it is an unintended consequence of war ..... in any case, the old logjam of autocratic rule in the arab world has been broken and hopefully it will spread .........

...... in hindsight i think we did attack the wrong country - saudi arabia is the source of all evil in the mohammedan world ........ it has to be liberated from the clutches of the saudi clan and the province of hijaz has to be put under un control so that i can take mrs hamidm for umra ....... i refuse to go until mecca and medina have been liberated and the idols of the quraish put back inside the kaaba - okay, maybe that is asking a bit too much ..........

tahmed,

I rub your nose in the Iraqi issue since you are its biggest proponent … even as you admit, get this, that the wrong country was invaded. Even a monkey can write an article and make big claims. However, it takes some intelligence to back up outlandish views, and therein lies your shortcoming.

If you have any answers, you have failed to communicate them. And now you are now hiding behind “sattar is not serious� excuse. How can you suggest this? I have clearly outlined errors in your reasoning … and all you have is a made-up excuse?

Earlier your excuse was that “sattar is abusive� (even though I merely called you an idiot at times). And now you are back to the ahmadi community (rolling my eyes) …

Sahib, are you feeling alright? I think you need a prozac refill …

RF bahi, I am simply amazed at the manner in which people, like tahmed (who thinks civil disobedience is a hallmark trait of a democratic movement-not the people who are leading it) and masadi (who thinks that popular will is some anti-elite, anti-army mandate (nevermind that the elite were the ones marching)) retrofit their silly worldviews into this supposed "people's victory". Mind you the army and the US have been the key to getting a compromise done.

Re: # 211

CreateAlpha

Thussi great ho, I had no idea, here I was feeling happy for the restoration of droopy eyed CJP, a person is recognized by his friends, if Hameed Gul et al are his spokesperson then we are verily fked.....Thanks

Re: # 230 shame you Tahmed32! You are reading too much into an innocent post, and misleading an honest ad unworldly person like MASADI, leading him to further humiliation.

Mr. Masadi: Dont listen to iron_mask, Sire. It is a trick!! He is doing this so that the final hurdle to the takeover of planet earth by the Evil Galactic Empire of Little Green Men is removed now that chowk has been unable to ban you permanently. So, do not stop your writing your sequential (albeit inconsequential) posts on chowk!! All humanity looks towards you for salvation!!

Sattar: i am flattered by your numerous unsolicited posts addressed to me or about me. if i thought you actually had any serious interest in the welfare of the iraqi people, i would give an appropriate response on the iraqi issue. but i see that interest in iraq (as opposed to your standard use of the ahmedi community to rant on chowk) has started coming up only when writing these posts to me or about me, i have written you this charity post in light of your pathetic situation of being a dud and a bore even by chowk standards. Enjoy!!

PS: I shall toss you another bone a few weeks from now if you are diligent in writing unsolicited posts.

Re: # 226 Masadi you have been wronged. Check the ilogs and the article of FP? Man, you have been done in. You need to protest and do something really meaningful - like .e.g. boycotting chowk permanently.

We are with you and rooting for you all the way(T)

masadi,

So what if millions of Iraqi got killed and displaced. Are you denying that they got to vote? And they even got to keep the pencils. As far as tahmed is concerned, they got democracy and that’s good enough. And if they don’t like it, they know what to do with those pencils …

… we should now move forward and tahmed can tell us which country to attack next. We can attack any country … and make up reasons for the invasion after the fact … really, it is that simple …

slam dunked again and sent packing with their damn tails between their legs....

TNITC masadi

Ajeya writes "Under the covers, they are all part of the same socio-political movement..."

Similar to how all Blacks look the same to the white bigot. These racist thugs abound on chowk...

TNITC masadi

Whoever is anti-imperialism or anti-slavery to the Americans becomes "Taliban loving" to these morons because they have been programmed via the Bushesque moron mentality to think in terms of "If you are not with us you're with the terrorists"... Of course the bigots among the Hindus have found in this retarded mentality a fulfillment for soothing their bigotry and seeing the world in ultra simplistic BS terms.

BS! exclamation mark and BS. period

TNITC masadi

#211 CreateAlpha

[yaar can one of you paki stalwarths explain to me what is a taliban loving terrorist abetting bhosRika like Hamid Gul doing offering statements from CJ's (the guy who is supposed to be the beacon of independent judiciary) house? Do yu not find this odd?]

CreateAlpha,

It is not odd at all. All muslims are "taliban-loving" to one extent or another. It's all a matter of degrees. When the taliban takes over their town and closes down shops, they are against the taliban to varying degrees. But when the taliban are beheading a kafir, they are all sympathetic to their "cause". Take tahmed, for example. Spouting ideals and rigteous indignation all the time. And blaming the mullas for all the ills of the Islamic world. But come friday, Tahmed the sheeple will obediently troop into his chosen mosque with all the other sheeples and listen attentively to the pearls of wisdom cast about by none other than a mullah. Only thing, this mulla is a "good" mulla. Because tahmed says so.

That's the islamic paradox. Only it's not a paradox - it only appears to be so. Under the covers, they are all part of the same socio-political movement - called islam.

Urstruly take your miserable hypocritical sensibilities and shove them. You are the one who has used the F work many times and other expletives and just like your hypocrite mullah friends who f'ck every goat and its progeny and then talk "fornication" you are a goddamned hypocrite,

TNITC masadi

Create Alpha writes "Do you even understand what has happened? this great march of yours has opened a can of worms that will further destablitize a fledgeling and precarious democracy. Institutions are not built this way. All the good work done to remove the dictatorship and sideline the army has been laid to waste."

This moron doesn't know what he is talking about. The "great work" that was done to undo the Army was to restore the CJ and through him a democratic institution that had been whored to the military. It was a major victory against the military. Further the "hard work" was not the manipulations that led to Zardari assuming the presidency and doing the bidding of the military and the US. The "hard work" involves doing the people's will and the vast majority, revealed by polls supported this action and the action that was taken was not a taliban style suicide bombing, it was the will of the people, as revealed by major polls being translated through the politicians they had elected into decisive action. It was good and the supporters of dictators like CA will oppose it because these elitists hate the people of Pakistan and they hate Pakistan. God damn them all....And don't dare tell people who know how institutions are built, you don't have a goddamned clue moron.

TNITC masadi

tahmed writes "...as for iraq - what i wrote has proved true over time - iraq is today free of a brutal dictator and has a government that resembles a democracy more than any other arab country. so whats wrong with what i said????"

Iraq is not only "free" of a brutal dictator is is "free" of the over million that have been butchered by the US invasion, the over 2 million that have been displaced and the rest of the population outside of the greenzone that has to live in the most mean existence, without electricity or running water and with a "democracy" that came to be under the gun of a foreign occupying force. Talk about a criminal who even after supporting this massive human catastrophic crime of the Americans still supports it. May he be damned in hell....

TNITC masadi

tahmed (#191),

�… as for iraq - what i wrote has proved true over time - iraq is today free of a brutal dictator and has a government that resembles a democracy more than any other arab country. so whats wrong with what i said???? the fact that what i wrote is counter to the standard line in the "muslim world" doesnt mean i was wrong. …


Granted, muslim world is in shambles. However, pitting your argument against the “muslim world� view does not validate your position. You’ll need more than that …

To appreciate your folly, re-read your article on Iraq. Your position was that we should trust the government, and hence, support the Iraq war.

FACT CHECK: The government case of WMDs turned out to be a farce. Then weapons “program� was cited as a justification, then “al-qaida connection�, then “supporting terror�. In the end, it had something to do with “spreading democracy�. The story and reasons for invasion have been revised … AFTER the invasion! What a joke!!

AWKWARD MOMENTS: When I took tahmed Sahib to the task (way back, when we were on talking terms), he awkwardly admitted that USA invaded the "wrong country". He also conceded that execution of Iraq operation was badly bungled up.

+++

So we invaded the wrong country and bungled up the execution. But, somehow, tahmed’s article in support of invasion was spot on! Go figure …

tahmed, is anybody home …??

FINALLY: Sahib, if things have gone so well in Iraq, which country should we invade next? Feel free to make a list and arrange it alphabitically ...

Tahmed, I think you might be the dumbest poster on chowk. Do you even understand what has happened? this great march of yours has opened a can of worms that will further destablitize a fledgeling and precarious democracy. Institutions are not built this way. All the good work done to remove the dictatorship and sideline the army has been laid to waste. You have the army calling signals, brokering lota peace and cedding land once again to forces that it thinks it can control.

sheikh-chili, nishan-e-lota, hilal-e-khaali-matka hamidm: you can ignore what i write. you cant present anything rationally to rebut them. so go seek refuge behind other posters on the internet.

Re: # 215

createalpha mian,

.... another great post! ....... it is a shame that our sheikh chiilis don't realize that they have just opened pandora's box and let loose the cave-dwelling jinns and their supporters like hamid gul...... with your permission i would like to repeat some facts that the sheikh chiilis just don't get:

it says that screw the election proess, if a group has a will, they can rally the sheeple and/or bomb, behead their way to get what they want fro mthe "elected" gov't.

............wishful thinking among folks like tahmed is devoid of taking stock of the players that are co-opting a process that they themselves cheered not long ago as a watershed in pakistani politics

........ and you are being very kind in labelling tahmed as 'foolishly simple'

Hamidm, It is fantastical almost to watch this from a far. It is as if wishful thinking among folks like tahmed is devoid of taking stock of the players that are co-opting a process that they themselves cheered not long ago as a watershed in pakistani politics. the results, i am afraid are going to be harmful. Taliban is not like a political party whereby you can change their ideology based on the political winds in the country. You cede land and power....you don't get it back. They have just been validated by this circus and people like tahmed are too foolishly simple to see it.

#210 hamidm: as for your calling me a sheikh chilli - i see you failed to back your words with anything i wrote. Thus proving you are also a khaali matka (hollow drum).

Hamidm: good. now that you plead guilty to being a lota, next step is to remember that you speak for yourself.

Dont try and spread your own weaknesses and complexes on all Pakistanis. The pakistanis who took part in the long march were not lotas. The pakistanis who have sacrificed careers and lives are not lotas.

Nest step: how do you plead on being a sheikh chilli?? (see #184 for why this applies too).

Re: # 211

create alpha mian,

........... you have hit the nail on the head ...... this is exactly what i see wrong with the drama of the last few days which has gripped the imagination of simpletons like sheikh tahmed chiili:

it says that screw the election proess, if a group has a will, they can rally the sheeple and/or bomb, behead their way to get what they want fro mthe "elected" gov't.

...... based on this precedent, let me quickly add:

sufi muhammad zindabad!
baitullah mehsud zindabad!

yaar can one of you paki stalwarths explain to me what is a taliban loving terrorist abetting bhosRika like Hamid Gul doing offering statements from CJ's (the guy who is supposed to be the beacon of independent judiciary) house? Do yu not find this odd? Nawaz sharif. a love child of zia, army and the mullahs, and himself a feudal....(the three great institutions that have fked pakistan from the inception) is hailed as a democratic hero. Isn't taliban's hand strengthened by this march business? it says that screw the election proess, if a group has a will, they can rally the sheeple and/or bomb, behead their way to get what they want fro mthe "elected" gov't.

Re: # 209

tahmed,

..... i plead guilty to being a lota - being a paki i cannot help it ........ it is in our genes and you will find me worshiping every rising sun until it sets (moonis is the latest and shabaz is in the wings) ......like the droopy eyed judge and his fat political handler, i have no principles .........

......but i am not part of the glitterati - i wish i was! ........ have you seen pictures of taseer's parties in the dailytimes magazine section ? .... it seems that all the good looking women in pakistan show up and if you look carefully there seems to be no shortage of red and white wine ..... unfortuntaley, i don't have the connections to get invited to his parties and usually end up drinking bhang at bari imam - that makes me part of the proletariat .........

.... as for you being related to sheikh chilli, the evidence is overwhelming ...... captain cluless of paki t-shirt fame is a distant second ..........


cj chaudhary iftikhar zindabad!

sheikh chilli-with-high-level-contacts, hamidm the gliterrati-lota:

i have sumarized below in #184 why you have earned the title of sheikh chilli. not to mention the rest of these titles.

now i suggest you quote one thing i have ever written that sounds like its from sheikh chilli.

Re: # 203

cheema sahib,

.... i agree with your assessment of the elder pehalwan of gowalmandi ...... as musharraf once said:

let me have men about me that are sleek like taseer;
men with a full head of hair and such as sleep o' nights:
yond nawaz has a fat and sullen look;
he eats too much: such men are dangerous.

....... even after a hair transplant, the supreme court assaulting ameer-ul-momineen wannabe has that peaked and constipated look of a menopausal woman who is always threatening to go to her mekay ...... his brother seems to a better man; afterall, tehmina must have seen something in him ...... any man who can replace khar is a man's man .......

..... our sheik tahmed chilli might consider my analysis rather superficial, but my inside sources tell me that shahbaz is the man to watch since the elder pehalwan can keel over any time from an overdose of paye and nihari ..... unfortuntaley, he might have to wait a while because the cattle thieves of gujrat are in the process of cutting a deal with the kleptomaniac prince .........

chief minister moonis elahi zindabad!

Cheema sb,

especially when more than 2/3 of it is going to be under water in not too distant future!

Wrong again, mate. Bong Muslims wud be in a majority in WB and Assam and then Ms Suzanne Arundhati Roy will be advising Indians to get azaadi from WB/Assam and WB/Assam azaadi from India!!!

Regards

Re: # 205

... give it time ... especially when more than 2/3 of it is going to be under water in not too distant future!

Cheema sb,

as for the two-nation theory ... for me it sank in the Bay of Bengal in 1971

Wrong. Had TNT been incorrect, BD wud have rejoined India.

Regards

Re: # 203

... hence as many explanations as people available to explain, as to why this country was created in the first place ... because its history is so self-contradictory throughout

besides, as for the two-nation theory ... for me it sank in the Bay of Bengal in 1971 (but others insist on different explanations .. yet again!)

majumdar

that is not the point though ... if there is a choice, I'd choose him over Zardari any day

point is some people tend to get carried away a bit ... such as comparisons with MAJ and equating him to the next promised messiah etc

and that's precisely the problem with Pakistan ... always has been ... emotions rule with no rationalism whatsoever

during the Pakistan movement, not a single person actually asked what this country was meant to be like ... no clear direction, no clear economic policy ... even after its inception ... your MAJ kept silent himself til his death ... now this has become a part of our culture that we never ask probing questions of our leaders and allow them to sweep us away off our feet time and time again ... and then the embarrassing truth hits home later

its not just a matter of the 'right' or the 'left' ... my belief is that any practical system (socialism, capitalism or even some elemnents of what is perceived to be Islam) will get you there provided there is some consistencey of character ... I see none (alas)

Cheema sb,

There are no angels in politics but for whatever reasons, NS has supported the right cause. Yes, I am aware of his bad behaviour in the past but then every saint has a past and every sinner a future. More importantly, should this movement result in a stronger judiciary should NS repeat his past mistakes he wud be swiftly dealt a boot, by constt means not by Army coup.

Yes, he is close to conservative, even Islamist groups but that is no crime. Every society has a right wing and a left, apart from a centre. And of course as an aside, being a rightwinger myself, NS's closeness to rightists does no harm in my eyes. NS, like all rightwingers, seems to be more pro-economy than the PPP and Left.

Regards

... so forgive me if I don't elevate him to the level of our 'new messiah' just yet


Regards

Re: # 197; tahmed sahib

do you have some problem with reading the written word?? ... I said CLOSE TO MANY with those inclinations ... what he is himself is (and has been) evident for long ... an opportunistic crook!

Re: # 196

tahmed sahib

I didn't mean you

I take it you DO frequent UP? and I won't be naming any names but hindus have been called all the names conceivable under the sun and many a Pakistani females interactors have been labelled "gashtis", "kanjaris" ... with some simulating sexual acts with them far too openly for (my) comfort

may be you didn't come across that behaviour ... or may be your sensitive 'tabiyat' chose to ignore it?

cheema sahib: you are proving to be too stupid to waste time with. bye bye.

#195 ns is a religious nutcase??!! yet again - get your bearings straight, mate.

$#194 please dont drag your "compatriots" into this. i dont see any pakistanis ridiculing and abusing hindus and india day in day out the way i see mental cases like jayp and arjun doing. like i said, get your brain working, mate.

Re: # 192; tahmed sahib

NS has been (and still is) very close to the religious nutcases ... and what they represent

I take it you are OK with that?

Re: # 183; majumdar

[[many Bhindoos seem to exist on chowk only to abuse Islam, Muslims, Pakistan and Pakis in the vilest terms while many Paki Muslims seem to be only too happy to behead or have s** with the female relatives of all those who disagree with them.]]

we don't need another 'bhindoo' when we have you here sir. ... a country that has produced someone like you can't be all bad

and I apologise for my compatriots' behaviour ... it seems they don't just hurl abuse at the 'bhindoos' but also their own country men and women when they can't present a coherent argument otherwise (especially the women)

in #191 i meant #184, not #176.

#189 hijacked?? NS heard what zardari and other drawing room intriguers could not hear - namely, the voice of the people. And he put the vast resources of a mainstream party behind the lawyers movement. that proves he is a true leader. the hijacker were the clowns that lota hamidm kow-tows to. get your bearings straight, mate.

majumdar #188 am i wrong in anything i wrote in #176 below?? as for iraq - what i wrote has proved true over time - iraq is today free of a brutal dictator and has a government that resembles a democracy more than any other arab country. so whats wrong with what i said???? the fact that what i wrote is counter to the standard line in the "muslim world" doesnt mean i was wrong.

#186 cheema: and so you think that musharraf did not get his face slapped?? you think he has emerged as the "shining sun" that lota hamidm predicted???

Re: # 187; tahmed sahib

I am happy for the CJ to be restored and that's pretty much where the similarity between you and I ends ... you seem to have gone rather weak at the knees at the "Quaid-eazam Saani" and "Amir-ul momineen" in the waiting which is rather pathetic

he hijacked a perfectly legitimate movement for his own political gains ... when I know and remember the past better than you can! ... even though there may be twenty odd years between us

unless you 'choose' to remember what suits you to win e-arguments on chowk?

Tahmed sahib,

Re: 187

cut and paste one thing I have written that is "sheikh chilli".

Your (in)famous FP article on US's invasion of Iraq for one. Your suggestion that Paki cops are brave and Bhindoo cops are cowards for another

But yes, those apart you are one of my favourite writers on chowk.

Regards

cheema: you are proving to be just a namecaller. if you wish to prove otherwise, cut and paste one thing I have written that is "sheikh chilli".

I on the other hand have listed below why your hero, lota hamidm, is the sheikh chilli of chowk.

Re: # 184; tahmed sahib

[[but reality is that he got his face slapped and the long marching unwashed won. ]]

you sir are more delusional than I originally thought

majumdar bhai #183: you are very kind to take this miserable creature masadi under your wing. he is a two-year old spoiled child in the body of a man. how sad.

#176 hamidm: i know reality doesnt make sense. after all, your good sense said that baboo zardari would put away the long march (as you predicted). but reality is that he got his face slapped and the long marching unwashed won.
your good sense said that mush would emerge as the shining sun (as you predicted), his faithful rashid by his side. but reality is that he got his face slapped, and rashid got his behind kicked.
now your good sense says that because the patwari is still around, the long march has produced nothing. the reality is that getting rid of the patwari was not the goal of the long march.

so who is the sheikh chili, genius???

PS: What good are these "high level contacts" and gliterrati in pakistan you keep bragging about on the internet if you are given the run around by a humble patwari????

Tahmed sahib,

I beg to differ. Masadi sb is mild in comparison to other interactors. The worst he says is peon of the West etc. OTOH, many Bhindoos seem to exist on chowk only to abuse Islam, Muslims, Pakistan and Pakis in the vilest terms while many Paki Muslims seem to be only too happy to behead or have s** with the female relatives of all those who disagree with them.

And unlike most others, he actually says sense. Although he can get a tad boring, repititive and predictable at times.

Regards

#181: for once the indoos and urstruly are on the same side. and for once they both got it right.

Re: # 180

Hindus is right. What good is your education. Even a chaprasee has better ettiquetes and manners than yourself. You cannot even engage yourself in a decent dialogue with your peers. You are a machine gun of obscenity and curse. What a wate.

arjun writes "you keep telling everyone to get an education..so why isn't it fair to assume that you consider yourself to have a superior education?"

The way they write, especially that HBS graduate tells me that they lack even a high school education that is why I am concerned about their well being in this rationalized world as they roam its streets as virtual illiterates~ thus the recommendation to anil, tahmed and his ilk to get a goddamned education,

TNITC masadi

hamid, thank you for your concern, however I don't need quacks or shrinks those are for the people living in virtual schizophrenia due to the alienation and the superficiality of the capitalist system. I know its shenanigans and so am exempt from the pain that others often don't realize has systemic causes.

TNITC masadi

Re: # 177

masadi mian,

.... make sure you check under your bed for hindoos, jews, us elite, ghouls and goblins ...... you should seek professional help from dr sohail or dr shankar ...... dr shankar is a real shrink, sohail sahib appears to be a quack .........

Talking about prophecies

From the NY Times

U.S. Weighs Taliban Strike Into Pakistan

By DAVID E. SANGER and ERIC SCHMITT
Published: March 17, 2009

WASHINGTON — President Obama and his national security advisers are considering expanding the American covert war in Pakistan far beyond the unruly tribal areas to strike at a different center of Taliban power in Baluchistan, where top Taliban leaders are orchestrating attacks into southern Afghanistan.

According to senior administration officials, two of the high-level reports on Pakistan and Afghanistan that have been forwarded to the White House in recent weeks have called for broadening the target area to reach the Taliban and other insurgent groups to a major sanctuary in and around the city of Quetta. ...


Now to my October 20 2008 article on The Barack Conspiracy:
http://www.chowk.com/ilogs/69728/40823

What will be the end result of Barack Obama’s election as President of the United States? For one thing, the global economic crisis will not vanish in his first term in office, causing great discontent among the people who had pinned high hopes on him. The result of this ‘failure’ as planned by the U.S. elite would be to play upon the well developed stereotypes of Blacks in the U.S as ‘good for nothing’, to discredit Black leadership well into the future. Barack Obama might well be the first and the last (one term only) Black U.S president ever. What it does do is maintain the racial boundaries by such “objective failure� both in the U.S and around the globe while at the same time buying time for a system that oppresses the many to stabilize itself. Second, the militarized capitalism of which the masses in the U.S and around the globe are wary will also be legitimized using Obama. The GWOT (global war on terrorism) will engulf Pakistan, and might require U.S troops occupying large areas of the country’s western frontier, setting the stage for an Iran invasion

-----------

TNITC masadi

masadi mian,

.... nowadays you make more sense than tahmed ...... if only you would stop being so paranoid about the west and stop using zinn as your bible, i could be your friend .......

#173 Posted by masadi on March 17, 2009 6:18:33 pm

so the power of the military will be rolled back?

again..what time frame are we talking about?

#172 Posted by masadi on March 17, 2009 6:17:13 pm


Those are your assumptions.


you keep telling everyone to get an education..so why isn't it fair to assume that you consider yourself to have a superior education?

yes the great victory is the incremental undoing of the military domination of Pakistan. It is a great victory if you locate it within Pakistan's institutional structure, a magnanimous victory that those who have manipulated to quell the masses don't understand yet, as you don't.

TNITC masadi

Arjun writes "with your superior education and your depth of knowledge,.."

Those are your assumptions. I can situate facts within their socio-cultural roots, in other words I can contextualize the causes unlike the random firings of the historians or the cluelessness of the economists or HBS graduates, that is all and that is it- it does not make me a Nostradamus. Even though I have come very close to that in the past.

TNITC masadi

#170 Posted by masadi on March 17, 2009 6:14:26 pm

so you're predicting martial law? and this is the great victory you all haven't been able to shut up about

Arjun mian you're barking up the wrong pole or tree as tahmed would have it. You are asking for decontexualized predictions as if I am a najoomi. I have told you many things in the past few days post, many more than the 3 you are asking for. What has changed is the feeling in the people that they can make things happen, even though this was a manipulation. I told you all about the Feb 2007 elections, I predicted Obama's victory and manipulations....just go back and do your google check. I don't work on 6 month frameworks, and I am not a najoomi or all knowing. My major prediction was made yesterday, when the martial law comes and come it will, the people and the SC will not accept it with the similar ease as they did before...

TNITC masadi

come on masadi..this is where the rubber meets the road...

surely you, with your superior education and your depth of knowledge, should be able to predict 3 substantial things that will change...

and no...it'll get hot in the next 6 months doesn't count...

Re: # 166

Masadi Mian:

You do hold your ears in more than one way, and hope one in will do the trick. Pathetic.

#164 Posted by masadi on March 17, 2009 5:39:15 pm

go ahead...humor me

give me 3 things that will change with droopy's restoration...


i am a simple objective minded person...give us 3 predictions that we can objectively evaluate 6 months in the future..

Anil writes "However, the failure of Marx, Weber & Co has shown that the state cannot be put ahead of individual.."

It is not about the state but about society and you don't understand the difference. You have no clue of social structure and its relationship with culture and so cannot appreciate the few personalities that can counter and equate them with the sellout entrepreneurs that keep the systemic status quo. Your post below is long on words but short on substance, it has absolutely nothing substantial. Don't waste my time with BS and your as well. And since you don't know anything about Max Weber or Marx, keep them out of your HBS BS.

TNITC masadi

Masadi:

Masadi does not understand royalty. Everything and everyone is the product of the state and society, therefore anyone including him can use it. After all it belongs to no individual (everyone is product of state and hence belongs to state). He certainly gets angry when someone even uses his method of giving reference to a text.

Even in this paragraph (#153) Masadi shows that he fails to see the change when the change happens, and why it happens. He is certainly smart enough, and indeed tries, to cover himself in jungle of high falutin words.

Every historian that Masadi can quote and build his virtual "Masadi ki dauR Mills tak", there is far more knoweldge that exists and points to individual contribution. In fact there is wealth of literature to show evolution of individual power from the days of hunters and gatherers.

The writers Masadi quotes have indeed put "state" above individuals in their thesis. Hence Masadi creates a blind fellowship that fails to see the basic fact that point to an individual.

The fact that individual comes first, and that he/she differentiates with the rest, almost as basic instinct that even animals possess. This brought competition even when hyrogliphics were not even written.

This competition can bring out the best of products (e.g. Islam's message of the time) and the worst of people (Muhammad and his followers not excluded). Decline of Islam may have its own reasons and I have not read much. However, the failure of Marx, Weber & Co has shown that the state cannot be put ahead of individual. I have witnessed the stark contrast that is created when the state is first.

Muhammad, the individual happened first. One in billion not withstanding, and Islam followed and follows him to this day. He put together: (a) the fantastic message for the time - vision in the modern day terms; (b) proven strategy of the finest general; (c) priven organization, a fighting army to capture land first and minds later; and (d) a great incentive plan to bring riches; (e) Winged messenger and connection to God was his powerful marketing slogan for its time.

Please do your study of change and evolution Islam (yes, I have done it). I have been studying change probably before you were born.

Happening of Islam is one of the most important changes. It change agent was Muhammad. He created (a) to (e) I mentioned above. If you have the courage and honesty to consider outside the box view, then you would notice what started was several fueding tribes who would attack and loot the trade caravans from Yemen to Syria.

Muhammad, the entrepreneur, as one in handful among the people, saw an opportunity with handful (not billion in one) to organize a venture based on creating lean-mean-and-fighting machine to deliver values (protection) to traders and their caravans. Nothing has changed even now handful of "believers" working with an entrepreneur deilver.

He created an enterprise based on the five pre-requisites. Once organized Islam's early leaders started expanding to control their routes and trading posts. They went into Iran, and Sindh then into fertile Punjab, and into Kerala for spice, and into Bangladesh (left India the producer of commodities for later), and Indonesia for trading commodities. These were on the supply side.

On the demand side, they went into Europe to control and protect themselves in the market places. They created a fantastic value proposition between suppliers and consumers, which their land allowed them to.

Nothing in what started as Muhammad's idea is different (other than means used) with the following empires, expansions, and even masadi-hated corporations and economic enterprises. It was revolutionary for its time, and working with him and his followers was probably going to Harvard Business School of its time.

This is what where an individual is first did. Blind followers like Masadi cannot comprehend except eulogize Muhammad and whatever else Masadi does.

Now, the state first models, where each person is a product of the state and society (and not the other way around), are visible.

These are visible in the caves of Afghanistan those who believe religion (to them = society) first, and has been littered in ex Soviets, and China.

For those who have ability to think freely, they may say Internet as a religion has the biggest followers attained in the shortest time, with the least blood shed. This too, in a time which dejected and depressed Masadi has prophesized to be bureaucratic and nothing can come.

Nothing may not come from institutions, but entrepreneurs let them dream, when Masadi has nightmare. Everyone benefits, after all Internet touches the cave dewellers also.

Before my next lesson on entrepreneurship - how success mostly starts with entrepreneurs, please read the collection of essays on "Entrepreneurs" in the latest issue of Economist.

Arjun why do you want 3 prophecies when I have made multiple ones in the past, do your googling and tell us where I have been massively off...

TNITC masadi

In the mean time we have moved to undo what was "not a desi conspiracy, but a massive international conspiracy"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akpN1nbpONE

comrade masadi...

why don't you tell us what droop's restoration mean in real terms?

give us a rundown of the things that will change...give us 3 things that will change...and the timeframe for this change

that way, we'll be able to evaluate the value of your real education

remember..some people here have long memories and know how to use google...

Anil writes "Quit being abusive.....Also, when will you be telling us about your proof positive evidence of God. Or does it come to you only when you hallucinate."

Let us add hypocrisy to his list of attributes, apart from the fact that the moron cannot write a straight sentence in English, he is openly abusive while asking me to quit being abusive. The "proof positive" (his Hindlish) is both around you and in you, the falsifiable proofs are all over the Quran and can be seen in the evolution of the universe and the origin of life. Here, have a read http://god.rationalreality.com

TNITC masadi.

Anil writes "unless Islamic warriors killed more than they converted"

Talk about naked raw bigotry and stereotypical, ignorant hatred, parading as entrepreneurship, enlightenment and open mindedness. There you have it folks in black and white, unrelated to any argument he brings out his BS.

TNITC masadi

Hamid, what Zinn stands for is the total antithesis of what tahmed promotes here on Chowk. The fact is that tahmed is so totally and completely worshipful of the white man that even the ideological divide cannot bring him to condemn someone just because they happen to be white. He is the ideal type brown sahib, the perfect specimen of servitude created by the white man to maintain his supremacy globe over....

TNITC masadi

Re: # 156

tahmed,

..... yes, i read zinn's self-loathing account of 'history' in about twenty trips to the toilet - i did not want to make an extra trip to flush it down after i got through with it ...... it is good toilet reading ........ zinn is as much a historian and scholar as churchill ward .....he is the other side of the rush limbaug coin .......

hamid writes ".... are you paying a royalty to looney toones howard zinn ?? "

Why should I pay him a royalty? Even though I agree with most of his conclusions, I find his analysis quite superficial, much like that of most historians who document facts but cannot situate them within a socio-cultural structure.

TNITC masadi

tahmed #155, is that the best you can come up with, tree and not pole? Did you or did you not understand what I was saying? I am under no obligation to use conventional terminology as long as my point gets across....

TNITC masadi

hamidm #147 what exactly do you find looney in howard zinn?? have you actually read him, or are merely playing the role of the Decider.

masadi #153 " bark up some other pole"

hai! hai! hai! grezi ki tang tor kay rakh dee!! tree, meray bhai. not pole.

...oh and if you have a valid point tell me about it so that I can ruin it here like I have your other miserable "points", rather than point me to a conservative magazine, the Economist....

TNITC masadi

Anil writes "Masadi mian:

Quit being abusive. Discuss if you have anything, and do it honroably."

My discussions are quite honorable, yours are full of ignorance. I did not suggest that a charismatic leader is charismatic straight out the mother's womb. They are anomalies, sovereigns of history. Max Weber was not my class buddy, he is probably the best known historical sociologist next to Marx. When I said the prophet is one in billions, I was not comparing him to people that lived up to the 7th century, I was including the present in that comparison. Since you have no valid points to contend with me over, what I say is factually, sociologically and historically established you come up with you childish BS about there not being a billion people at that time...

Go bark up some other pole, moron...

TNITC masadi

Re: # 146

Masadi Mian:

"You ignorance in presenting the example of the prophet is that he was one out of billions"

I hate to burst your balloon. The population of the Earth was not one billion then, unless Islamic warriors killed more than they converted. Get real and start seeing changes and then at those who bring changes.

The example of Muhammad is the most appropriate one, as you are abusive all the rest, and cannot be abusive toward him.

Re: # 146

Masadi mian:

Quit being abusive. Discuss if you have anything, and do it honroably.

"institutions by themselves"

Are you tyring say that an institution is conceived in the mothers womb when humans (institutions) some or all are born? This is the silliest argument that I have heard, no wonder you call "god damn education", because you are unable to understand.

It cannot be said more simply than this "for every exist there is an enterance to somewhere". Few visionaries see it and make that entrance to a new place (be it society).

Do you understand what I have written above? I am making it simple so that you do not have to rely on the use of high falutin words to impress.

P.S.:
For your god damn education on Entrepreneurs, there is a nice collection of essays in the latest "Economist". You can read it, once you have learnt it from chabriwala of Gujranwala.

Also, when will you be telling us about your proof positive evidence of God. Or does it come to you only when you hallucinate.

Re: # 139 Posted by hamidm2 on March 17, 2009 10:02:26 am

Hamid mian,

This is a legitimate question (.. and what about sufi mohammad and his qazi courts - are they part of this judiciary ?)

If my history serves me right, these areas were never a part of pakistan anyway. Before the soviet invasion, these areas were called "illaaqa-e-ghair". The so-called writ of federation was never applied in these areas any way, so why bother now. During the soviet invasion, zia-ul-na-haq made these territories his military base to get the mujahedeen infiltrate into afghanistan.

Re: # 131 Posted by hamidm2 on March 17, 2009 8:39:41 am

Hamid mian,

[.. as a half-punjoo..] yes, I know that, and that you were born in quetta. yet you do not support droopy eyed, who was also born in quetta, in 1948.

Re: # 141; hamidm sahib

[[either you are related to sheikh chilli or have never been to pakistan ]]

I always had my suspiscions! ... how about a deadly combo of the two?

Re: # 146

masadi mian,

.... are you paying a royalty to looney toones howard zinn ??

#145 Anil don't go around in circles. Charismatic leaders the are "institutions by themselves" have been a handful in human history and their effect was felt more for a reason in pre-modern agricultural societies. In the post modern bureaucratized societies, social control mechanisms are so thoroughly institutionalized that change capacity in the hands of individuals is at best incremental and easily co opted, as happened with the Civil Rights Act that did not change the underlying structure but pacified the movement by killing the charismatic leader Malcolm X who could have caused trouble thereafter.

You ignorance in presenting the example of the prophet is that he was one out of billions, if you want to live by those odds in causing change then change will never occur- it is a clear prescription for the status quo. Get a goddamned education,

TNITC masadi

Masadi:

Let us see if you can get it.

People who change (your prophet Muhammad included among many others) are individuals who have vision beyond a common person.

They change the society and bring in the dawn of a new society, new approach or whatever they as individual put their energies for. These people are changed by society, but change the society. Something you cannot see, because you are unable to study “Change�, and see a part that happens not at the dawn.

Jahangir Badar's Letter to Aitzaz Ahsan

To,

Chory Tza Zessun,

Brister at La, LLM

Daktrate in La (Onris Kaza, Can Tub)

Member Central Xective Kmaitee

Dear Chory Saab,

In cardence with rules and sub rules, las, bye las and inlas of the Paty, in my capasty as the Secty Journal of the Paty and in consultatio n with the Shriek Chairman, I am sending you this notus. Tis imaptant that you take this seriously and rpoat back to the undersigned within one week.

Tis true that you are my teacher in la. That does not mean that you are my father in la. I have lunt my lessons well, and as a result, I have become xpert liar. My repootation is suppredding slowly slowly and I am naoo famous from Choona Mandi to Pani Walla Talab. I have also quired qualfications in hairdressing, inciyun of boils, bone setting and circumciyun. But my biggest luv as you know is Englush language. I can give you free lessons in Englush, so that you can become my bedient pewpal.

Dear Chory Saab,

Shriek Chairman is very angry. You are going to different different places and making lang lang sapeeches. You are going to different different cities and making lang marach. Why are you making lang marach sir ji? Are you Chairman Maoo? Are you Shriek Chairman? Are you Secty Journal? Then why are you curyating kill kill? So that Miansaab can go for the kill? Do you want to kill the Paty? Do you want to kill the Gormint? Nuf is nuf. It is time either or shut up or to eat phutta.

If you don’t want to eat phutta, if you are so fand of lang marach, why don’t you go to Mreeka? Why don’t give a dharna on the Pencil Vania Avenue? You can say to Obama, ‘Obamay, don’t send drones to tack us. Don’t send Hall Brook to tack us. Send us dallars. Don’t tu rn us into a cloony. Send Jaraj Clooney.. Don’t send Anne Patterson. Send Angelina Jolie. You give uranium to India, so that they can make their bums bigger and you drap big bums on us, such as Praise Musharraf. Why don’t you treat us same to same? Hain Ji?’

Butt no, you want to eat the head of Shriek Chairman every day. This is the only thing you are goood at.

Can you not see that his hands are full? Swat is burning. There is a crisis. He has to sign the Sharia La. There is the pressure of time. He has to learn to sign his name fust. He is trying under my superviyyun. Thanks Gad, he has ejucated advisors like me, who don’t go on lang marach. By the grace of Gad, he will be ready before the governor of Pakhtunkhwa is beheaded.

I think Chory Saab, we should do a tie up and have a chat. We should do it privutly, so that nobady is watching when we are tied up. We can have a chat in Choona Mandi, or in Zaman Parak. But the best chat is in Bano Bzar in Nar Kali.

Let’s have a chat there,

Undersigned,

Mhamd Jungeer Badar

Secty Journal

tahmed writes "inspiration provided to the public by Justice Chaudhury's bold stand against the rogue regime of musharraf, .."

Once again Sheik Chilli has it backwards. Chaudhry did not take a stand against Musharraf, after he got his job back he stood down and let the unlawful election of Musharraf proceed. Have you forgotten that already or is it the immoral amnesia you periodically suffer from. The lawyers' movement is what gave him the backbone to review his submission to Musharraf. Chaudry the charlatan just became a symbol for the outrage against military dictatorship among the people and a great part of that outrage was an outrage against Western imperialism and their War on Terror- that is the FACT that is very inconvenient to you...

TNITC masadi

#141 you obviously have trouble understanding what i wrote in #140, otherwise you would have realized that i am saying exactly what you are telling me!! namely, dont expect the patwari to disappear overnight, replaced by an online land records management system. that was not the aim of the long march, as i keep reminding you.

Re: # 140

tahmed mian,

.... either you are related to sheikh chilli or have never been to pakistan ....... next month, i am headed down once again to meet with the patwari and see if we can get this issue resolved ..... my poor father spent the last ten years of his life chasing after this guy and it seems i will be doing the same ...... i will let you know if things are better now that droopy is the chief justice ...... do you know the difference between a fard and an intiqal? .... just curious

#139 see? now you can start asking such questions. before the long march, you never asked such question.

dont rush to call the patwari though - just as no one claimed that the Long March had the goal of increasing the GNP, so no one is claiming that the Long March is the Last Step towards improving the judicial system (or any other public sector system).

But, by starting at the top by restoration of the Supreme Court, and given the public awareness concerning the role of the judiciary and the inspiration provided to the public by Justice Chaudhury's bold stand against the rogue regime of musharraf, it does make it possible to even conceive of real improvements and of demands for improved public sector performance.

Re: # 135

tahmed mian,

.... has the judiciary really been restored? ..... what about thise dozens of judges that were appointed after nov 3? ...... and if the judiciary is restored does it mean that i will finally be able to evict the folks who have been occupying my property for the last ten years? .... good! .....i will call the patwari right away and see what he has to say about this independent judiciary ......... more than likely he will tell me and old droopy-eyes to go jump in the leh ......... and what about sufi mohammad and his qazi courts - are they part of this judiciary ?

....and that day is coming...hopefully in my lifetime

TNITC masadi

hamid writes "did all those day laborers waiting in hathi chowk or peshawar more with their gaintis and bailchas find work today?.."

Not today but tomorrow when they kick out military dictator wannabes they will find the jobs and those jobs will be located in the houses of the army officers that are levelled to the ground and the army industries that are nationalized.

TNITC masadi

tahmed writes "it is obvious that both the civil and criminal procedures in pakistan are in turn directly taken from the brits, and is far more developed than the "sharia law" drawn from islamic societies. "

You don't have a clue about these things. Laws are ossification of norms in societies and are culture specific if you consider history. Why Pakistan has brit laws and colonial institutions is why we have remained backwards because those laws were designed with superior subordinate in mind. Regarding development of 'individual specific' laws, that emerged post 17th century, they were designed by the owners of capital to protect their interests and represent societies that are individuated. Regarding laws in Islamic societies they were far more developed than anything the Euros came up with depending on the time period you look at. Laws have nothing to do with sharia because the prupose of the Quran or Islam was not to give exhaustive sets of laws. Who do these laws benefit is the question you need to ask and what you forgot in your West is best rant is that those people that were detained or "disappeared" were done so at the behest of the Western Global War on Terrorism and the CJ was challenging the Western war more so than attesting their laws.

You don't have any morals but present your faith about the West is Best as if they were "facts". Not so.

TNITC masadi

hamidm: please dont go around in circles. you know very well what "abdul" got (and you are an "abdul" too, rest assured as explained below) you will make yourself dizzy and start hyperventilating. This Long March was not aimed at increasing the GNP. It was meant to restore the judiciary. And if this restoration was meaningless - which is your latest position in light of the fact that your wadera hero went bust - why did the NRO-ed crooks fight it tooth and nail??

Please write more intelligently, otherwise I will have to give up on chowk altogether and actually start doing some real work.

hamidm: please dont go around in circles. you know very well what "abdul" got (and you are an "abdul" too, rest assured as explained below) you will make yourself dizzy and start hyperventilating. This Long March was not aimed at increasing the GNP. It was meant to restore the judiciary. And if this restoration was meaningless - which is your latest position in light of the fact that your wadera hero went bust - why did the NRO-ed crooks fight it tooth and nail??

Please write more intelligently, otherwise I will have to give up on chowk altogether and actually start doing some real work.

Re: # 132

tahmed,

..... tell me again, what did abdul paki win?

.... did all those day laborers waiting in hathi chowk or peshawar more with their gaintis and bailchas find work today? ...... who got to eat chirras and paye from gujranwala? ...... by the way , how much does a plate of dal and two rotis cost on the sidewalk in lakshmi chowk?

hamidm #131 i have heard about sore losers. i have never heard of a winner (which is what every pakistani is, thanks to those who participated in the Long March - unless he/she is Asif Zardari or one of his crooked accomplices) acting like a sore loser because he thinks he is a loser. So, if you are not one of his crooked accomplices (which I am sure you are not, otherwise your shrinking 101k would not be giving you so many heartaches), just hold your peace and thank those who saved you from the crooks.

Re: # 129

bubba mian,

..... as a half-punjoo i ashamed of them for piling on the poor sindhi kleptomaniac ...... it will come back to haunt us ........ it depends on what kind of bandar baant they come up with in the punjab in the next couple of weeks ...... i hope the big bad bandar of gowalmandi does not act like the alpha male and shares his berries with all the other monkeys including the cattle stealing simians from gujrat ........

tahmed mian,

.... unfortunately i am not part of the glitterati or civil society that gets invited to salman taseer's parties, but i am envious - he is always being photographed with the most beautiful women (and men) hovering around him ....... my inside sources tell me that he serves 24 year old single malt whiskey ....... like poltergeist, he will be baaaack in the next caretaker government - he always is .... he will be around long after droopy-eyes, the pehalwan brothers and the kleptomaiac leave the scene ........

Re: # 121 Posted by hamidm2 on March 17, 2009 6:19:38 am

Hamid mian,

and what about the punjoos? no, zindabad for them!

Re: # 126

hamidm2

I agree with you, bartenders are always there when u need them unlike the chiefs of this world. Cheers

gliterrati??? once again this uppityness and name-dropping!! you make even Romair's name-dropping sound like cogent reasoning!!

Re: # 123

tahmed mian,

... bartending is not a bad job while one is waiting to be the governor in the next caretaker government ....... salman taseer still throws the best parties in the country and the glitterati love him ........

Re: # 124

.... after this latest round of distribution, the monkeys will climb back into the trees and resume pelting the unwashed masses with berry pits ........

Re: # 122

tahmed mian,

... i hate to sound sceptical, but i suspect that the monkeys are working on the formula for distributing the berries ..........

and salman taseer is so magnanimous, he kicking himself out of office and is taking on his next job as bartender.

#121 Zardari is in a magnanimous mood too and has announced the restoration of the CJ. Wonder what happened to bring about this outpouring of generosity??

.... i am in a magnanimous mood this morning, so:

nawaz sharif zindabad! (i hope he comes home from his 'mekay' in raiwind)
pm gilani zindabad!
cj droopy eyes zindabad! (however, i would keep one eye on him)
president zardari zindabad! (i would keep the other eye on this shady character)
general kiyani zindabad!
ahmed ali kurd zindabad! (i really like this guy .. )

I salute the people of Pakistan, the lawyers, civil society, journalists, social workers and political parties for their selfless efforts, determination, courage and prolonged struggle to restore the free, fair and courageous judiciary. I also salute the role of the Pakistan army in this time of crisis because the conditions were ripe for a military takeover. Let's hope and pray that our beloved country will now move smoothly towards prosperity.

Air-cdre (r) M Khalid Kamal

Islamabad
////////from jang////////////////
Helping pakistan - advice from an indian

No khalid saab, the country will definitely not move to prosperity simply because more and more areas will come under taliban control. All of the girls schools have been made into taliban centers, girls are not allowed to study and that has a significant effect on society. More of teh girls will be impregnated by the jihadis as there will be a need for more children to replace those killed by the drones.

No doubt pakistan will become a more jihadic country, an islamic country according to the vision of jinnah, but prosperity, well t5he highest reward in islam is for the jihadis, 72 virgins is the highest form of wealth and happiness, and if so, pakistan will be prosperous.

Rehman Malik was said to have told the minister, who passed that remark, that Sherry Rehman was his “Aapa� (elder sister). This comment of Rehman Malik, which meant that Sherry was older than him, greatly provoked Sherry, who could not hold herself and passed serious comments against Rehman Malik about his old age. Both the ministers then exchanged hot words.
///from jang of today///////////

Here is the professionalism of the paki ministers. Sherry resigned because of reference to her age, great, and she is ashamed that she is so old. Hence the resignation...pathetic and thsi kind of values are good for democarazy of pakistan.

Re: # 117
JayP...
Pakistan's per capita spending is not much less than that of India (may be more). They are selling their nuicense making/Islamic ability to earn money....


hamidm2/tahmed/tahir...
why don't you make Pakistan as the 14th emirate of Saudi Arabia...(like Alaska to USA)?...that will strengthen Islam in Pakistan (no court, no Zardari, No CM, no PM etc...)...you can derive benefit of being being part of the holiest country on earth...secondarily, Muhammed Ali Jinnah can be declared semi-prophet, and thus, will be recognised widely outside Pakistan as well....

Re: # 116
nkg,

The US aid to pakistan is only charity stuff, just to prevent famine. Pakistan is now virtually cut off from the world, hardly any one is leaving or coming to pakistan.

That is the only way to contain jihad, fence pakistan, throw a few bread crumbs in so as not to hurt the western sensibilities by having famine in pakiland.to

Re: # 115
JayP...
"Like the urdu saying, a bomb a day keeps the pakis awake...."

Man, it keeps awake everyone...at least these bombs are bringing US aid to Pakistan.....everyone is looser....

As romair is celebrating the return of judiciary and tahmed is celebrating the elimination of rascals in pakistan, a suicide bomber has killed a few dozen on rawalpindi.

There it is for your eyes only romair, to wake you all up to the reality of pakistan.

Like the urdu saying, a bomb a day keeps the pakis awake.

Re: # 113 Oye hindu, apni khair manao. After what you did in lahore, you should sleep with one eye open.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Would you all three chaprasees of amrika and roos shut up for a change. Don't you have a job or home to go to for crying out loud.

i just wasted a lot of time again on chowk. bye.

#108 masadi: human history is just 10,000 years old (before that, technology and social structures did not evolve). and every culture picked up things from earlier cultures. roman jurisprudence was spread to UK when the romans conquered it. it is obvious that both the civil and criminal procedures in pakistan are in turn directly taken from the brits, and is far more developed than the "sharia law" drawn from islamic societies. "sharia law" was used to impose dictatorship by zia, and western jurisprudence has been used to protect basic rights by pakistani lawyers. these are facts. what is wrong in recognizing simple facts like these.

In #105 I am addressing hamid and referring to the snake tahmed.

#104, in order to show that it was "invented" in the West you need to prove that in non-Western cultures, all of them, it was perfectly legal to hold people legally without warrant. Neither you nor any law expert can justify that. Just because in Western knowledge all alterntives have been amnesiacally removed, and the work of women, and people of color denigrated does not mean that it was 'invented' in the West and it was free for all before....

TNITC masadi

#105 masadi: who are you addressing and what are you trying to say??

#103 hamidm: judicial appointements dont require cosmetic eye surgery.

he can't explain anything, he is only capable of trying to bend and twist all "good" that happens in Pakistan to be caused by the West and all "bad" to be self caused. A classic example of the brown sahibs the brits trained after the illegally, unlawfully and barbarically butchered our people and destroyed our lands through the long colonial era and then he has the audacity to talk about habeas corpus. Even today their IMF circumvents democracy and dictates to countries in the best tradition slavery where they "own" whole countries...

TNITC masadi

masadi #101: of course without habeas corpus people can be held without a warrnt. and of course the habeas corpus was developed in the west (probably roman law, i would think). giving credit where credit is due does not diminish you or your own people.

Re: # 97

tahmed mian,

... okay.... now, please explain why i fert a 'f' .... is droopy really qualified to sit on the bench?

Not to mention that the "common law" is uncommonly applied heavily to favor the rich and the corporations whose fiefdom the West has become...

TNITC masadi

What you don't get in the entire thing about this movement is that it is not about a person. I answered the question straight up. Are you trying to suggest that before the Anglo Saxon's "invented" habeas corpus people could be held without warrant, that no law existed before the "West" invented it? If that is what you are suggesting you're a fool for not understanding what law is. Laws are merely formalized norms of a society which cannot be transposed from one to the other without similar adjustment in social structure. Not one of the protesters yesterday was chanting that they wanted English common law. Not one.

TNITC masadi

laddu: welcome maharaj. what is wrong with pakistan today??

masadi: see..you avoided answering that simple question!! why, masadi??? if you say the sun rises from the west, you dont fool anyone. people simply start suspecting you are stupid.

It is time Sidh threw away the Panju gooda gardi. An independent Sindh would be the real place for Indic-Islam to flourish on the banks of river Sind.

An independent Sindh will serve as a natural conduit for oil and gas pipelines from energy rich Central Asia to energy starved South Asia. Without an entrenched bureaucracy, Sindh will rapidly lead the way to economic expansion in South Asia. Most significantly for the rest of the world, given its long peaceful sufi tradition, an independent Sindh will provide a bulwark against fanaticism and promote peace and prosperity.

Who knows, Sindh might be the real light of the Ummah and would be able to isolate the Panju mullahs and their created Taliban.

#96 hamidm: you get a f--king F!!!

Re: # 91

tahmed mian,

..... the answer is a categorical "no"! .... droopy is a crook, a pco judge, an opportunist and, in my mind, not worthy of sitting on the bench .......... megan's law applies to him ..........

........ i hope that answers your question

It is not about the chief justice it is about substantive democracy and that is not defined by the West except as slogan. Regardless of what 'law' he touts, is everyone equal before the law in the West is what matters and that certainly is not the case. You are being stupid and a sellout. Just because the West holds cultural hegemony so ideals are defined in its terms` which themselves are not the result of simply Western history does not mean 'democracy' or 'social justice' was invented in the West...

TNITC masadi

hamidm/masadi: you have the respective questions posed to you. i shall be back tomorrow to check your answer sheets. (and dont try to look up the answers!!)

masadi: what was the source of the Chief Justice's training on law?? Pakistan or the west??? Was the concept of habeas corpus (the basis on which he demanded the government produce the "missing persons") defined in Multan or in the West?? Why are you so determined to be stupid??

#89 dont try to save face hamid, you said "heart of the matter" and you were a little too late in posting that, your pal Arjun had posted it much earlier and that is not my interpretation. NS would not and was not affected by the cut in aid threat, the army was and it pushed Zardari...

TNITC masadi

#88 for the nth time then: Did, or did not, Nawaz Sharif do the right thing yesterday? and indeed throughout the period of the lawyer's movement.

Can you imagine a military dictator takes over and the people go on the streets with the emotions they displayed yesterday, even after the much larger bloodshed, the military will be sent packing to the barracks. The morons with a sub tenth grade education, look at what they've done to the country on behalf of the Americans....they talk about maturity of democratic institutions, we showed the world yesterday that more substantive democracy is at work in our countries than exists in the rationalized 'formal democracies' of the West where such changes can never occur and all outrage is pacified through elite manipulations...The West needs to learn its democracy from the people of Pakistan.....

TNITC masadi

Re: # 83

masadi mian,

... no, you are wrong ... i just cut n' pasted from geo news .... that is your point of view, not mine

tahmed mian,

... okay, ask me a straight question and i will give you a straight answer ... what was the question, again?

masadi: and dont dare get me banned again by red-flagging my posts!!

#84 mr masadi: actually if you did any or some of the items listed, you would be in a less grumpy mood when you spring to action on chowk.

#84 mr masadi: actually if you did any or some of the items listed, you would be in a less grumpy mood when you spring to action on chowk.

masadi: do you ever eat or sleep or make love or go to the loo or watch a movie or do an work? or do you just hover around chowk, ready to spring to action!!

Ahhh so #80 now hamid is pushing in the US as the 'heart' of Pakistani matters while before saying that we are responsible for our own stuff...make up your goddamned mind, moron

TNITC masadi

#78 hamidm: the question is the one you have carefully avoided despite a reminder. all you have to do is scroll down (done by holding the left mouse button down) to the post # i gave below to get to the question. after that (and this will require a real effort!!), you give an honest answer.

#78, it was no question that tahmed asked, it was his usual BS which is the hallmark of you all including the anil type ignoramuses who think that an individual is sovereign in a society when even the very words through which he (she) understands their world are socially determined and rooted in culture. Get a goddamned education, taking socially constructed "reality" as if it were nature, morons....

TNITC masadi

the heart of the matter

WASHINGTON: U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told Pakistan's president and opposition leader over the weekend U.S. aid could be at risk unless they defused a crisis over a top judge, U.S. officials said on Monday.

Anil writes "You do not like when I show the contradiction and fallacy in your points."

What contradiction and what fallacy. Will a business school graduate teach a sociologist how societies work? Mian jee you are born into an institutional structure, which preexisted you, will post exist you and has an existence "sui generis" apart from the individuals that inhabit it.

Regarding fuzair the Army brat and his hatred of NS, it is understandable through the Musharraf link. NS is preferred to any army dictator any day and his stand these past few days regardless of whatever reason, has tremendously benefited Pakistan and absolved him of his past wrong doings. As for the army thugs they were cut down to size and the people will no longer tolerate their BS anymore...

TNITC masadi

tahmed mian,

... what was the question again???

...... if the question was, do i think there is anything wrong with what has happened, the answer is a resounding yes ! ........ nawaz sharif is a crook and so is the droopy-eyed cj ..... all we have accomplished is replacing one crook on the bench with another ....... same same

and what i am saing in #76 is the same point i tried to get across to hamidm in #33 - a point that one can ignore, but that should be quite obvious.

fuzair #74 A character certificate is not required for someone to become a political leader. What is required is that the individual has the courage to step forward and do the right thing at the right time. And that is what Nawaz Sharif has done ever since the Chief Justice stood up to Musharraf rather than rubber stamp his outrageous demands of April 2007. And the courage he demonstrated yesterday capped his leadership role during this defining moment in Pakistan's history.

So, as long as Sharif continues to demonstrate this leadership role, he will continue to play a key role in the re-building of Pakistan after 8 years of military misrule that has brought pakistan to a stage of near anarchy.

Re: # 65

Masadi Mian:

"...don't ask me, ask Max Weber..."

I do not need to ask any Max. I just need to point to you, and I can help you a bit, humans are born first to give any shape to a society or an institution.

Keep your bigotry to yourself and blind worship to yourself. To you sati is the measure of another religion.

I merely tried to tell you the your prophet was one of the foremost reformers of all times, among several other things, and he was born first as common as anyone of us.

Please do not give your next nonsense that he was born institution. You can delude yourself and fool your islamist students. You will utter such nonsense, where I can read, please be prepared for a response based on simple logic, rather than your convenient and convoluted nonsense. New nonsense from Masadi, Muhammad was born an institution.

How about you, what were you born as?

Tahmed:

Urdu ki kahawat hai: nou sau choohay kha kar, billi haj per gai. That pretty much sums up NS and his 'principled' stand. Do you seriously think that NS's support for the CJ has anything to do with principles? That it is anything but an attempt to oust Zardari and the PPP and seize power himself? That once/if returned to the PMship he will not revert to his old ways?

Others have amply laid out NS's track record; Hamidm and others have pointed out the CJ's own track record. Maybe the CJ, like so many others (myself included), despaired of NS and believed in Musharraf's initial promises. Lets see what happens.

Re: # 66

"...The most simplistic stupidity I have read in the form of a sentence that means nothing..."

Mian ji answer my questions in that post, if you have intellectual honesty and are not coward. You do not like when I show the contradiction and fallacy in your points. Just get over it, or answer my specific questions?

This is in reply to Post no 3 and 4
Khyber besides being so full of hatred, you are also plain stupid.........
Your critique which is even more incoherent than Babar Ghori reflects a totally tunnel vision and a clogged mind....
I am not a conservative and will never vote for NS, but he has played a much better role this time. Regarding this old non sense of his attack on Supreme court....Tell me if i have made a mistake in the past, how do i compensate for it? The only way is to show that now I have changed is to play a practical and different role....
I have seen your comments in many interacts and all of them smack of sleazy third class regional hatred.....In a website which says"unflinching idealism since 1997..." this hateful gibberish is regrettable

Khyber besides being so full of hatred, you are also plain stupid.........
Your critique which is even more incoherent than Babar Ghori reflects a totally tunnel vision and a clogged mind....
I am not a conservative and will never vote for NS, but he has played a much better role this time. Regarding this old non sense of his attack on Supreme court....Tell me if i have made a mistake in the past, how do i compensate for it? The only way is to show that now I have changed is to play a practical and different role....
I have seen your comments in many interacts and all of them smack of sleazy third class regional hatred.....In a website which says"unflinching idealism since 1997..." this hateful gibberish is regrettable....

PKSZ_shadbad writes in his ilog "we are too sentimental a nation - "

As if there is something wrong with that. Much better to be human and sentimental than being a cheerful robot whose emotions are controlled by others for their many perverted motives, as is the case of the mass society in the US. As functionally rational machines who stay alive to work and consume for others, devoid of human emotions and substantive morals....a goddamned human graveyard...Sentiments is something they have not been able to take from us, and thank God for that....the food they have taken out of your mouth....

TNITC masadi

Neo-colonization retains the colonized setup without the explicit occupation of the past for the benefit of the colonial powers

Hamid writes "didn't we get our independence in 1947? ."

Just as much independence as your chaprasee has living in the 6X7 quarter you have constructed for him in the back side of your house. He has to remain within the confines of his assigned duties, if he gets too "independent" you will quickly show him his place. Neo-colonization remains the colonized setup without the explicit occupation of the past for the benefit of the colonial powers. Maybe you never woke up to see that a new world was structured post WW2 and that external events more so than anything internal shaped the politics of Pakistan ever since its independence.

TNITC masadi

tahmed writes "hamidm: in other words - masadi is merely playing the same game you are playing..."

Don't hide your ignorance in psycho babble and BS. Your agenda of defending the white man and his sh** at every cost even that of selling your country as you have sold your soul is clearly plainly displayed in your posts on chowk...

Like I said, your presence is desperately needed in hell not on chowk, and soon you will see the consequences of your BS because justice finds a way to deliver itself...with merely a time gap that makes the ignorant think that justice is dead....not so, dead are the unjust who sell their souls for a few $$$, in intellect, morals and humanity....the crows will peck on their flesh.....


TNITC masadi
TNITC masadi

Anil writes "Your argument is simplistic and foolish and it lacks symmetry at the very least."

The most simplistic stupidity I have read in the form of a sentence that means nothing, penned by no other than the great Anil from HBS, whose entire philosophy of complexity is that people are "utility maximizers"- can anything be more goddamned stupid and simpler than that. Mian jee even your "utility" is socially situated and cannot be understood without the setup of social institutions and the corresponding culture- it is for this reason that the so-called neoliberal or "positive" economists are goddamned morons...

TNITC masadi

Anil writes "Are you saying that your prophet Muhammad meant nothing, or the institutions that produced him and he changed were as great as he was?"

Give this moron a reason to attack Islam with. Mian jee charismatic leaders are as they say 'institutions by themselves', does that say something to your bigoted mind? They by their power of charisma can dismantle the hold of institutions on people, it is only after their passage that their ways or distortions of their ways are institutionalized...don't ask me, ask Max Weber.

TNITC masadi

hamid writes "the fault, dear masadi, is not in our stars, but in ourselves that we are underlings ........ you need to get out of this rut of blaming your acne on people who write romance novels ........."

Really you mean to say all countries of the world are independant to act as they want and there is no effect of the 1001 diplomats and military experts and trade strategists and structural adjusters of the World Bank that visit these countries. That the average joe with 3 maxed credit cards that has put massive profit in the hands of the few rich has equal weight in calling the shots as the CEOs of the top corporations that fund your elections? Wow, what have they been putting in my chai.....

TNITC masadi

contrary to what prophet tahmed would have you believe, this had nothing to do with paki people power..

it has everything with shrillary making the paki president grease up and bend over...

Clinton warned Pakistan of aid cut if no deal
Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:01pm EDT

By Sue Pleming

WASHINGTON, March 16 (Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told Pakistan's president and opposition leader over the weekend U.S. aid could be at risk unless they defused a crisis over a top judge, U.S. officials said on Monday.

In a surprise move, Pakistan's government announced on Monday it would reinstate Iftikhar Chaudhry as chief justice, aiming to defuse a crisis and end protests by lawyers and activists that threatened to turn violent.

The officials said Clinton telephoned on Saturday both President Asif Ali Zardari and his rival, former prime minister Nawaz Sharif, who had backed the anti-government lawyers.

The officials said Clinton, who coordinated with British Foreign Secretary David Miliband, had exerted strong pressure for a deal.

Clinton told reporters the decision to reinstate Chaudhry was a first step for much-needed reconciliation and political compromise in Pakistan.

She avoided answering when asked if she had linked continued U.S. aid to a deal.

The stability of nuclear-armed Pakistan has emerged as a key worry in Washington, which also needs its help to combat a Taliban insurgency in neighboring Afghanistan

Asked if the political turmoil was distracting Islamabad from taking on the militants, Clinton replied: "They understand what is at stake."

CONGRESSIONAL DOUBTS

U.S. officials said Clinton told both Zardari and Sharif congressional lawmakers might balk at sending Pakistan more aid while the crisis persisted.

"She warned them that congressional appropriations would be at risk," said one U.S. official, who asked not to be named.

A senior State Department official said "many" in Congress had expressed concern over what was happening in Pakistan.

"The secretary's friendly advice to the Pakistani leadership is that we have got to get this situation under control," the official said.

U.S. special representative to Afghanistan and Pakistan, Richard Holbrooke, also spoke several times over the weekend to Pakistani politicians.

"This was all done with great respect for Pakistan's sovereignty and sensibility but with great concern for the strategic and political implications of a protracted confrontation," a Holbrooke aide quoted him as saying.

The Obama administration is reviewing its strategy toward Pakistan and Afghanistan. Details, including possible future aid, are expected to emerge in the coming weeks.

In January, Zardari urged the United States to boost both military and non-military aid.

The United States has spent billions of dollars in recent years helping Pakistan fight al Qaeda and the Taliban in remote tribal areas along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.

Senator John Kerry, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, released a report last month calling for $4 billion to $5 billion in immediate financial aid to help Pakistan avert financial meltdown.

Kerry welcomed the decision to reinstate the chief justice but said more must be done.

"Now, Pakistan's civilian leadership must avoid divisions and work together to further strengthen the nation's democratic institutions," the Massachusetts senator said in a statement.

State Department officials credited Pakistani leaders for their compromise and downplayed the effect of U.S. actions.

"These were decisions that had to be taken by the Pakistani leadership. And in the end, I believe they acted in the best interests of the Pakistani people, and that's what's important here," said State Department spokesman Robert Wood. (Editing by Alan Elsner)

Re: # 54

Masadi sahib:

"...personalities don't matter one little bit, a Musharraf or a Zia ul haq are just as bad because of the institution that produced them..."

Are you saying that your prophet Muhammad meant nothing, or the institutions that produced him and he changed were as great as he was?

Why are you the way you are? Is it because of you, or because of the school and college that you attended?

Your argument is simplistic and foolish and it lacks symmetry at the very least.

hamidm: in other words - masadi is merely playing the same game you are playing, namely ignoring simple questions that topple your idiotology, create pangs of cognitive disonance, and pull the rug from under your weltenschauung.

So - dont set the bar higher for masadi than what you yourself are able to clear.

hamidm: i asked you a simpler question in #33. if you had not ignored it, you would have had the answer to this question you pose for Mr. Masadi, the Scourge of the Peons of the North by Northwest.

Re: # 58

masadi mian,

... can i ask you a simple question? .... where were the paki leaders, civil society, and the unwashed masses when all this was being done to us by colonials, americans and zimbabweans? ...... didn't we get our independence in 1947? ..... how come the horrible hindoos don't go around blaming their miserable state on the vikings? .....

the fault, dear masadi, is not in our stars, but in ourselves that we are underlings ........ you need to get out of this rut of blaming your acne on people who write romance novels .........

The architects of Pakistan's institutional order were the colonials and later the Americans, the people's voice was shut out from the very beginning. The military was made the dominant institution through external support and that was done by the Americans regardless of the effect it would have on the rest of the institutions, the state and the economy, it was not the people's ideals that determined this structure, it was the American elite's ideal for a subservient, enslaved nation.

TNITC masadi

rf writes "institutions represent ideals set by people"

Rf sahib, institutions are not 'ideals', they are organized sets of relationships that have ossified in a society, and people don't determine those sets of relationships, they fit into them for the sake of 'making it' in the society they live in. If the political institution is held subservient to the military and honest politicians hung, then those 'politicians' that want to make it will harken more to the military than the public, corruption will be their success- that is how the institution makes the man. During times of crisis when things are disrupt, the possibility of institutional change arises, such was accomplished in Pakistan yesterday. You cannot translate from history and blame personalities when institutional change occurs because the foundations of a new morality are being laid....that answers the dimwit hamid's claim as well- it is only an excuse to the uneducated those who cannot relate facts to their social institutional roots.

TNITC masadi

Re: # 54

masadi mian,

.... since i have never taken a course in sociology, i don't quite understand the point you are making ....... are you saying that the pml-n is corrupt so we really can't blame nawaz sharif for being a crook? ..... and droopy was been corrupted by the supreme court and therfore has no personal responsibility ? .... maybe i can use this excuse next time i have a hangover: the bar made me do it ........

......for a while there i was ready to be your friend but you are a bigger fool than i thought!

Re: # 54


(The external constraints within which individuals work in an institution are the ones that need changing, personalities don't matter one little bit, a Musharraf or a Zia ul haq are just as bad because of the institution that produced them and not because of their genes or personal conscience...)

One can only applaud this optimism but its difficult to share because of a long history of disappointments and remember one thing, institutions represent ideals set by people and of the architects are flawed then so will be the design and structure.

only a dimwit infected with individualizing social institutions and having no clue of social structure will make the personal morality argument involving leaders as Hamid and Matloob Zaman are making....and of course mullahs do the same thing. The external constraints within which individuals work in an institution are the ones that need changing, personalities don't matter one little bit, a Musharraf or a Zia ul haq are just as bad because of the institution that produced them and not because of their genes or personal conscience...

Get an education...

TNITC masadi

get an education,

Re: # 42
hamid sahib
Anyone in their proper senses can not disagree with what you say.
People believe these characters are above accountability for their past and present.

"....but in a polite and friendly way."

This needs to change as well....make me the foreign minister for one day and I will change it all....just one day and a news conference...

TNITC masadi

http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=20940

"Top US government functionaries tried their level best to prevent the PML-N Quaid Nawaz Sharif from coming out on the roads but they failed. US President’s Special Envoy Richard Holbrooke spoke to Nawaz Sharif twice last week and offered his services for mediation with Asif Ali Zardari but the PML-N Quaid never encouraged him.

Nawaz Shrif told this scribe that he did not want the Army and the US to interfere in the political affairs of the country and that was why he ignored the offer of the American envoy, but in a polite and friendly way.

Nawaz Sharif is confident that March 16 will change the history of Pakistan not through foreign forces and the Army but by the people's power.."

Take not tahmed and peons of the West....your goose is cooked.

TNITC masadi

hamid writes ".... now let's see how masadi pins this latest carnage on the us elite and wall street ............ "

It doesn't take a genius to see who brought suicide bombings to Pakistan and that was the farcial US Global War on Terrorism that was forced upon the people by the US and its Pak military thugs. This latest one is in the same old series and now seeks to cut short the nation's celebration to get it back on its business of doing America's nonsense. It seems to me the Americans and the mullahs were feeling rejected because for once their games were secondary to the Pakistanis seeking social justice, so this is their gripe for attention....which will also be rejected

TNITC masadi

#47 hamidm: no, you have a problem answering my question.

bsm #41 congratulations to you and to all true Pakistanis on this great day. it was a real high learning how the the ghoondas found out the hard way that spirit of the zinda-dilaan-e-Lahore. And the fact that no one seems to have been killed in the process, and the political parties are still talking to one another, puts the icing on the cake.

Re: # 45

tahmed mian,

.... yes, i have a problem with a felon appointing another criminal as a policeman

.... now let's see how masadi pins this latest carnage on the us elite and wall street ............

hamidm: you couldnt answer a simple question. duh! uh!!

anil: i dont do prophesy. i leave that to geniuses on chowk.

stop the celebrations !

...... it seems urstuly's cave dwelling friends are not too thrilled by this great 'victory' for the unwashed masses ..... as a matter of fact, they are so unhappy that they are blowing them up ......... subhanallah!

RAWALPINDI: At least nine people were killed and several others were injured when a suicide bomber blew himself up outside local hotel near Pir Wadhai Chowk here on Monday.

megan's law,

..... the unwashed masses of pakistan deserve to know the crimial record of their leaders .... then if they choose to let these habitual molesters live amonst them, they deserve to be raped ......

...... in that spirit it is incumbent upon us to keep on publishing nawaz sharif's and droopy's criminal record .........

Re: # 34

Masadi,

Sometimes you make me so so happy by writing such beautiful sentences. :) "justice they will get whether it be over the dead bodies of the peons of the West." Dil khush kar diya is jumlay ney!

--------

Congrats Qibla, Masadi, and the rest of Long March supporters. I am so happy today, that I can't stop crying. :):):)

The first BLOW to Pakistani establishment makes me feel so HIGH right now!

Jai Ho, Mere LogoN!
-E

Pavo writes "SINDHI CHIEF JUSTICE ATTACKED AND REMOVED AND PUNJABI CHIEF JUSTICE RESTORED WITH ARMY SUPPORT ? WHERE WAS NAWAZ SHARIFS SENSE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS OF LAW IN 1997 WHEN HE ORGANISED ATTACK ON SUPREME COURT ? "

Iron_mask writes "Re: # 38 see the list provided by hamidm2 - its a great list.....by this great upholder of justice and law."

-----

Both are ignorant and lost in time. That was then this is now. The then was before the precident was set by opposing a dictator. The SC before was a whore house and so it was treated as such by both NS and the military under whose rule it was. It changed after the CJ took a stand backed by the military of course that was trying to oust Musharraf because he had fallen out of favor with the Americans. The unintended consequence of that is that we will have a supreme court kept in check not by a person but by the lawyers and the people. It has nothing to do with Sindhi punjabi and the other BS reproduced by Hamid.

Get a goddamed education, it was a great day for the people and the change has begun

TNITC masadi

Re: # 38 see the list provided by hamidm2 - its a great list.....by this great upholder of justice and law.

oooppps something went wrong and it posted before I could edit the topic. So here it goes.

The whole thing is built on a house of cards. nawaz sharif has hood wonked the nation. For example the The Great Charter of Democracy by which the likes of TAhmed32 and others swear by says
and I quote from it

3. (a) The recommendations for appointment of judges to superior judiciary shall be formulated through a commission, which shall comprise of the following:

i. The Chairman shall be a Chief Justice, who has never previously taken oath under PCO.

ii. The members of the commission shall be the Chief Justices of the provincial High Courts who have not taken oath under the PCO, failing which the senior most judge of that High Court who has not taken oath shall be the member

iii. Vice Chairmen of Pakistan and Vice Chairmen of Provincial Bar Councils with respect to the appointment of judges to their concerned province

iv. Presidents of High Court Bar Associations of Karachi, Lahore, Peshawar, and Quetta, with respect to the appointment of judges to their concerned province

v. Federal and Provincial (for the concerned provinces) Minister for Law & Justice

vi. Attorney General of Pakistan and advocate generals for the concerned provinces for concerned provinces

(a-i) The Commission shall forward a panel of three names for each vacancy to the Prime Minister, who shall forward one name for confirmation to Joint Parliamentary Committee for confirmation of the nomination through a transparent public hearing process.

(a-ii) The Joint Parliamentary Committee shall comprise of 50 percent members from the treasury benches and the remaining 50 percent from opposition parties based on their strength in the Parliament nominated by respective Parliamentary leaders.

(b) No judge shall take oath under any Provisional Constitutional Order or any other oath that is contradictory to the exact language of the original oath prescribed in the Constitution of 1973.



So while reading this great charter of democracy, let us recall what the great Droopy eyed one was upto(and I thank Hamidm2 for this comprehensive list)

hamid writes "............. now let us see what this droopy-eyed charlatan does ..... it is possible that he might have changed his spots, but i doubt it"

You forgot 2007 when he stood aside and let the SC declare as "unmanageable" the challenge to Musharraf running for presidential elections in effect legitimizing it, only to be opposed by the lawyers who are now defending him- the guy is a charlatan but he set a precedent that is institution changing and thanks to Musharraf gave birth to a movement and that is what matters.

Get an education and pick up some morals along the way, hanging out with tahmed has robbed you of the little humanity you might have had,

TNITC masadi

Re: # 31

Tahmed sahib:

"...#30 of course. and the sun rose from the north today, just as you predicted...."

As a matter of fact Equinox is on March 20, when the Sun starts rising from northward position. You should have made an even more prophecy, it seems like it is your day. Please do not get carried away to prophesize Musharraff's hanging.

Tahmed writes "or is it too hard for you to let go of your love to see two-taka babus and tinpot generals lord it over the nation."
At least he is consistent and not a hypocrite. You on the other hand like those you worship (the Americans and the British) talk the democracy talk while supporting every goddamned military dictator that this nation has seen....

May you rot in hell with the barbarians you seek to promote on this site,

TNITC masadi

Beware of the tahmed types for whom democracy means American dictatorship that is why he opposes negotiations in Swat. What he is unaware of is the fact that even when the US tries to associate "the people" with American manipulations as is the case with US "democracy" and their shenanigans in Pakistan there are unintended consequences. The bigger victory in the restoration of the CJ was not the independence of the judiciary, it was the feeling among the people that if they band together they can change things and this feeling is what will prove explosive for the powers that be, even though the peons of the West might detest it. The people don't want America, and they don't want the mullahs, they want justice and justice they will get whether it be over the dead bodies of the peons of the West....

TNITC masadi

#32 i read 29. so what??? talk about today!! do you have a problem with what nawaz sharif has done today? or is it too hard for you to let go of your love to see two-taka babus and tinpot generals lord it over the nation.

Re: # 31

tahmed,

... #29 was for you .... memorize these facts so that i don't have to remind you when things turn sour ..... you should also memorize nawaz sharif's track record ..... unless these guys are prophets who were kafir before they became moslems, i don't hold much hope in the future of the unwashed masses ........

#30 of course. and the sun rose from the north today, just as you predicted.

Re: # 28


tahmed mian,

sheikh sahib predicted all this a year ago ..... now i am waiting for his new predictions - i tell you, the man is a prophet!

lest we forget:

jan 2000: droopy first judges to take an oath on the PCO and filed one of the vacancies left by the 11 judges who had resigned in protest

may 13 2000: droopy was one of 12 judges who validated musharraf's coup

june 2001: droopy was one of two judges who forced rafiq tarrar to resign, and make way for musharraf

april 13 2005: droopy dismissed all petitions challenging musharraf's consistitutional amendments and passed the 17th amendment allowing musharraf to become president in uniform

............. now let us see what this droopy-eyed charlatan does ..... it is possible that he might have changed his spots, but i doubt it

hamidm: maybe you could make sheikh rashid your dictator and you could be his follower.

...... it realy is a sad day for pakistan when a cj firing, supreme court assaulting, ameer-ul-momineen wannabe and illegitimate offspring of zina-ul-haq is being compared to quaid-i-azam !!

nawaz sharif murdabad!

p.s. my inside sources tell me that the pehalwan of gowalmandi feasted on forty chiras and three plates of paye at four in the morning in gujranwala .... also, with the restoration of the droopy eyed pco-1 cj, the unwashed masses will get a bath once a week, eat biryani twice a week and enjoy universal health care which includes cosmetic surgery and penile implants ..........

another question for ex-armymen on chowk: do you have to be a bewaqoof to join the army, or do you become a bewaqoof after receiving training??

fuzair: I think NS just upheld what was Right. Where exactly do you see the joke?

I agree with the good Major Saab. NS as the upholder of Right is quite joke! The only good that might come out of this is that the CJ (Restored) might be so Dheet that he will uphold NS's and Talented Bro's disqualification... and maybe go after some of our other Untouchables, generals included.

#14 yes indeed - this is a great day for Pakistan.

Re: # 6

NS Bholla Pehlwan as Quaid-e-Azam??? Gimme a break, 1997 attack on Supreme court, bribery of judiciary and being the birth child of a military dictator.

Jinnah was a core constitutionalist who never disrespected the judicial system even though he was fighting for liberation from the British crown.

Restoration of sacked CJ (second time) can only be good news, kudos to all those activists who participated.

cheema, interesting you make that obsevation.
It will be interesting to see how this unfolds in the coming months. The euphoria will disappear, and back to square one once more. (see UP e.g).

Re: # 18

... and before your own sense of self-righteousness gets the better of you, read pavocavalry's post and ilog too ... might help you dismount that high horse ... gently

Re: # 13; tahmed sahib

if the objective was to restore the CJ, that has been achieved and no one is happier than yours truly

however, what I don't understand is where NS fits in in your equation? ... hasn't he already done enough in two terms as PM and previously as CM Punjab (not to mention his stint in the 'dicator' Zia's regime! ... where he was introduced to politics in the first place)

it is the poor people I feel sorry for who may have confused the issues yet again ... not hard to believe since otherwise seemingly intelligent and educated folk like yourself have gone all weak at the knees ... what hope does an ordinary abdul on the street has?!

my major observatio is that where was Nawaz Sharifs sense of righteousness of law when he organised an attack on the Chief Justice Sajjad Ali Shah in 1997 whose only fault was that he was not a Punjabi and also constitutionally right ?

u see the video and u find all fat shalwar clad mushahids and all PML N and PML Q attacking the supreme court.

so the deduction is that a Sindhi Chief JUSTICE EVEN IF RIGHT IS BAD AND A PUNJABI CHIEF JUSTICE IS RESTORED WITH INTERVENTION OF ARMY CHIEF ?


Agha
-------------------------------------------------------




Da te: Sunday, March 15, 2009, 9:47 AM

Dear Friends,

It is increasingly becoming apparent that Punjab-centeric forces like PML-N, Pakistan Tahrik-i-Insaf, a powerful section in PPP from Punjab, and the Punjab-heavy military and their religious allies like JI are succeeding to oust Zardari from power-even from leadership of PPP.

Below is an article that offers an interesting analysis of the current situation.

What would be the repurcussion of this? Would not this arouse counter nationalism of Sindh and MQM?

Please give your response.

Thanks.

Nangyal Yousazay


Pakistan on edge as Zardari arouses rebellion
PAKISTAN’S president, Asif Ali Zardari, was facing a revolt from inside his party yesterday as negotiations to end a standoff with opposition leaders failed to make headway and the threat of turmoil in the nuclear-armed nation provoked increasing international concern.
Zardari has spurred dissent in the ruling Pakistan People’s party (PPP) with his dictatorial handling of the crisis, which began last month when Nawaz Sharif, the opposition leader, was banned from holding public office and direct rule was imposed on his political heartland, Punjab, the country’s largest state.
Political analysts say Zardari, who came to power last year on a sympathy vote after the assassination of his wife Benazir Bhutto, has further alienated voters with his heavy-handed clampdown on a nationwide protest by lawyers demanding the reinstatement of senior judges sacked in 2007.
More than 400 protesters have been arrested and main roads blocked to stop the lawyers going ahead with a “long march� to the capital, Islamabad, in their campaign for judicial independence
The first clear sign of a rift in the PPP emerged yesterday with the resignation of Sherry Rehman, the information minister. She quit after the country’s largest private television channel, GEO, was shut down in big cities on Zardari’s orders.
Zardari is reported to have angered the prime minister, Yousuf Raza Gilani, and the head of the army, General Ashfaq Kayani, by refusing to accept a compromise deal they had proposed to avert chaos.
Under the deal, backed by Britain and the US, the ban on Sharif, a former prime minister, and his brother Shahbaz Sharif, former chief minister of Punjab, from holding office would be lifted. It would also end direct rule in Punjab and reinstate Iftikar Chaudhry, the former chief justice, to a senior judicial role.
Last night, in what was seen in Islamabad as a significant concession by Zardari, a government spokesman said a review would be held of the supreme court’s ban on Sharif and his brother holding office. Zardari had earlier told aides that he was not going to negotiate while under pressure from Sharif and his marchers.
Zardari’s stance has prompted signs of revolt in the cabinet. An emergency meeting of the ruling party’s executive this weekend was postponed because of fears there would be too much dissent.
The unrest has led to fears that the army may intervene, reimposing military rule just a year after civilian authorities took power. Kayani has been reluctantly forced into a pivotal political role, trying to arrange a truce between the warring parties. Insiders claim he has privately told Gilani to assert himself against Zardari and take on more of the president’s role.
Nawaz Sharif attempted to project himself as the voice of moderation yesterday when he said in Lahore that he was ready to work with Zardari, if the president stuck to his promises.
He said that “by resisting the popular will� on reinstating the judges, Zardari was only shortening his political career. “I don’t think he will be able to complete his five-year tenure,� he predicted.
Doubts are growing about whether Zardari can meet the opposition’s demands and survive a political backlash from his own party faithful.
He has already backtracked on three earlier pledges to reinstate Chaudhry because the former chief justice opposed an amnesty that absolved Zardari of corruption charges during his late wife’s two terms as prime minister.
Rasul Bakhsh Rais, professor of politics at Lahore University of Management Sciences, said the country was facing “political disaster. The crackdown and arrests by the government are getting worse and are going to prompt a rebellion against the government�.
Talat Masood, a retired general and political analyst, said Zardari had proved a “disappointment�. “People are very concerned about how their political leaders, especially Zardari, are handling affairs of state,� he said. “He can only survive if he lets the prime minister take constitutional powers in the next 48 hours.�
The army announced yesterday that its troops were on standby in case of violence at the mass demonstration in Islamabad tomorrow.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5908442.ece





Agha Amin

There were those, the ilks of tahmed who celebrated the elections and called it the birth of a new pakistan. That only resulted in the dictatorship of Zardari.

Now the very same ones are celebrating the victory of law, they will repent because the CJ is no upholder of teh law, he is bribed by Nawaz and he will go after Mushy.

That will be the time for pakis to regret again.

The CJ will be dismissed again once he touches Mushy.

IF he reviews the NRO or any of the amendments passed by Mushy, the CJ will be dismissed again and this time it will be with the full support of the yanks.

Happiness all around.

http://i42.tinypic.com/25upn47.jpg

#12 i feel sorry for you and hamidm.

Re: # 10; tahmed sahib

[[.... And Pakistan has finally found a true political leader in Nawaz Sharif.]]

you are a funny man sir! LOL!!

Re: # 4

Shame on you. I will welcome Nawaz in Peshawar.

Zeena: Congratulations to you too. And to all true Pakistanis. This is a great day for Pakistan. And Pakistan has finally found a true political leader in Nawaz Sharif.

However, there is one way - the only way - that will show that fouj has redeemd itself and that they are repentent of all the crimes they have done against the citizens of Pakistan.... The fouj MUST handover Musharaf to the people of Pakistan. He should be tried for treason and hanged in the courtyard of Lal Masjid for his crimes against humanity.

Re: # 7

I don't think so. And it is anybody's guess that fouj will be the first to sabotage people's victory because they are the one who are the most adversely effected party if people win. Our fouj is so accustomed to surrenders that they have started calling them strategic retreat. This what it is for them. But everything bad has a good side too - since burai ki jarr - amrica is still in the neighborhood the citizens army will stay in power and keep napak fouj doing anything stupid in open. Like i said Paksitani people today have achieved very little - a sustainable victory cannot be established unless fouj is defeated and humiliated in the streets of Pakistan.

Re: # 1

it was all courtesy of the very 'haramkhor fauj' you alluded to sir ... all part of the service (I guess)

No doubt, Nawaz Sharif is our next Quaid-E-Azam....

Quaid-E-Azam gave freedom to Pakistan and Nawaz Sharif gave freedom to Pakistan when it was need the most.

Nawaz Sharif, our 2nd. Quaid-E-Azam...zinda bad.

CONGRATULATIONS PAKISTANIS!!!
Thank you, Atizaz Hussan, Nawaz and Shahbaz Sharif, Sherry Rehman, Imran Khan, Naheed Khan, GEO tv, Athar Minallah and all Pakistani respectful attornies and rest of the Pakistanis who gave all sacrifices for the noble cause and for the coming generations.

I really have tears in my eyes. And these are tears of joy.

Punjabi politicians of Pakistan are selfish,its a war between punjab and rest of the country,punjabis can't tolerate non punjabi politicians.

NAWAZ HYPOCRITE Nawaz Shariff loves to destabilize democracy and there is a long list of other politicians who share his fantasy of playing ugly role in failing Democracy. Nawaz Shariff is keep talking about Justice Iftikhar but he forgets that he was involved in attacking supreme court of Pakistan, on the other hand I think it will it be better for Justice Ifthikah to join PML(N) OR make his own political party because I am pretty sure that if Nawaz gets power, he will not reinstate him because Nawaz hands are not clean either. Nawaz Sharif is a big hypocrite. He had the Supreme Court physically attacked on 28th Nov 1997 but is now standing up for the independence of the judiciary just because he hates Musharraf. And another thing is that whatever these politicians want becomes the solution to everything. They wanted democracy, it was the "solution to everything". Now they want judiciary, it is the "solution to everything". Nawaz Sharif , talks of independence of judiciary but before doing that ,at least he should eliminate the culprits of Supreme court attack case from his party. A few months ago he categorically said the reinstatement of the judges is the most crucial issue facing the people of Pakistan. (Actually, I'm pretty sure the food and electricity crises are the most crucial issues facing the people of Pakistan. Then comes the threat of militancy and terrorism. You've got to put inflation in there too. Pakistani politicians have double standards, lets put it this way, Nawaz was after the daughter of chief justice Abdul Hameed Dogar but Nawaz forgets that Rules were bent in 1991 to admit Nawaz Sharif’s daughter Mariam Nawaz to King Edward Medical College in Lahore . According to reports Mariam was a grade-B student in matric and FSc and scored 580 out of 850, and 767 out of 1,100 in the two exams in 1989 and 1991 respectively , Clearly, she did not qualify for admission to the KEMC on open merit. She was admitted to the Army Medical College in Rawalpindi and was migrated after only a month to the KEMC, which she left without completing her degree it was ‘almost comical’ that having done something similar, the Sharifs were pointing fingers at the chief justice. PML-N leader Nawaz Sharif wants CJ Abdul Hameed Dogar to resign over allegation that his daughter received undue favor for admission in a private medical college, but he is yet to offer an apology for his own daughter Mariam actually receiving such favor for enrolment in a public sector medical college in 1991 ,I am not defending what DOGER done but all this corrupt Pakistani elite is in same boat. Its also interesting that Nawaz called Zardari worst then Musharaff but Nawaz forgets that his mentor (Dictaor Zia) was the worst dictator in Pakistan and he is no less than him. How will you promote the merit, Mr.Nawaz, you have yourself reached here on Zia's lap .We are fool to expect you anything. Mr Nawaz Sharif, people of Pakistan beg you to please not to destabilize country. People know in any hour of trial, you have your Palace and business in Saudi Arabia and you will flee in minutes but Pakistanis do not have any other place to live. Please stop playing your heinous designs and let us save PAKISTAN . So called politicians likeNawaz Sharif ,survive in politics based on their wealth and fudel background, lets not forget that majority of these politicians forefathers betrayed their nation and helped ENGLISH masters to rule Indian subcontinent . When Nawaz was leaving for Saudia Arabia, where was his pain for people of Pakistan or even of people of his own party. He left them all in crisis to have holidays in Saudi Palaces. He has been financing so called Jihadis and took funds from OSAMA to run his election campaign. In fact his political father Zia has laid all seeds of religious fanaticism. ,Benazir has lost her life ,even Gen Musharaff narrowly escaped two life attempts, ANP leadership suffered, but Do you know any leader of PML(N) to whom militants have posed life threats? If now after his political summersault he begins to believe that the problem lies in our home, Why didn’t he join hands with Zardari to crush out the militants? An indeed example of hypocrisy Nawaz Sharif . NAWAZ SHARIF IS A MEMBER AND SUPPORTER OF AL-QUIDA,HE HAS LINKS WITH OSAMA BIN LADEN AND TOOK FUNDS FROM HIM TO RUN HIS ELCTION CAMPAIGN IN 90'S. YOUTUBE.COM...NAWAZ SHARIF CORRUPTION EXPOSED VIDEO.THIS SO CALLED LONG MARCH WAS NOT FOR THE CHIEF JUSTICE IT WAS FOR THE RESTORATION OF NAWAZ SHARIF
http://pukhtunkhwatimes.blogspot.com/

oh heck, use the following link and click WADAY

http://geo.tv/important_events/geoblocked/pages/video.asp

Pakistan zindabad

WHY GEO TV WAS BANNED BY THE CHAPRASEE


http://tinyurl.com/Bayghairat

PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

AMRIKA KE CHAPRASEE MURDABAD
HARAMKHOR FOUJ - MURDABAD