Common Pakistanis US Foreign Policy

By Kaiser Bengali

Monday, 30 Mar, 2009 | 07:54 AM PST |

Kaiser Bengali is a known government agent. He has always written in favor of the army. Ask any one at Karachi Press club.

Re: # 169
hasann...
Muslas are notorious for their trouble making ability (can you recall what French president called the muslas living in Paris? SCUM) accross the world and even in India ( in West Bengal and Maharashtra, muslas occupy more than 80% of the prison)...People dislike muslas because their nasty habits.
Related to Gujrat, every year there used to be something or other problem in Bharuch, Ahmedabad etc.. Gujjus were real desparate to teach muslas a lesson. It was very bad for Gujjus (most of them are vegetarian and very much peace loving)....you people should not expect to get away by committing crime (every time)....some time the other party may react....

#187 Posted by masadi on March 30, 2009 8:40:12 pm

And then some of us asked you what would change after droopy was restored...

and you slithered away..

Go ahead...go out on a limb...you can't do worse than Riaz "Uncle Sam will give us ponies" Naq or Captain "t-shirt with a paki flag" clueless..

trust me..the bar's pretty low..

This is what I had written and is on record May of 2008

The PML-N if it quits, resigns and takes to the street will develop "street power" because of the changed situation, it will boost the lawyers’ movement and bring to an end this February ‘08 farcial election’s attempt to maintain the status quo. This issue is a make or break issue for current political inroads through the present parliament for the people.

And they talk about predictions!

TNITC masadi

RiazHaq another sellout clown who is a supporter of dictators

Here is what I had written on May 12th, 2008 regarding the restoration of judges....

http://www.selvesandothers.org/article16476.html


TNITC masadi

Re: # 183

tahmed: "PMLN has demonstrated character in the lawyer's issue - and it seems to have learnt something in the intervening years!! Democracy does not happen overnight - and Pakistani politicians are learning the hard way why honesty is indeed a better policy than dishonesty."

Have you seen the following from Dawn Today .....


Lawyers’ struggle: another view

By Kaiser Bengali

Monday, 30 Mar, 2009 | 07:54 AM PST |




THE successful movement for the reinstatement of Iftikhar Chaudhry is being billed as a historic watershed event that has redefined the politics of the country and, in particular, the relationship between citizen and state.

Whether this conclusion turns out to be an illusion or reality will be tested in due course of time. In the meantime, however, an examination of the composition of the movement raises some disturbing questions.

The movement was started in March 2007 by the lawyers’ community and emerged as a rallying point for democratic forces opposed to Gen Musharraf’s military-backed regime. In the process, it attracted support from a broad spectrum of society — political parties of all shades, civil society and even retired military and intelligence officers. The latter formally organised themselves under the banner of the Pakistan Ex-Servicemen Society.

Following last year’s national polls and Gen Musharraf’s subsequent departure, a section of this coalition lost its enthusiasm for Iftikhar Chaudhry’s reinstatement. The vast majority of dismissed judges also agreed to be reinstated after taking a fresh oath of office under the constitution. However, a core — largely centred in Punjab — remained committed to the original objectives of the movement and continued the campaign. By early 2009, PML-N — the majority party in Punjab — took control of the movement and led it to a successful conclusion.



The movement’s advocates saw themselves on a pedestal as ‘crusaders’ for justice and rule of law and couched their rhetoric in highly moralistic terms. Undoubtedly, the movement comprised eminent individuals of impeccable integrity, who have devoted their careers uncompromisingly to the cause of rule of law and democracy. Due credit in this respect has to be accorded ungrudgingly.



However, a perusal of the roster of the ‘crusaders’ does not inspire unqualified confidence, as many have their past to answer for. There are questions with respect to their commitment to democracy, constitutionalism and rule of law — and their political orientation; with implications for the direction of politics in the country.



It cannot be comforting to note that some of the advocates of the movement were active members, collaborators or supporters of military regimes. Among leaders of the lawyers’ movement, one was a provincial minister under Gen Musharraf’s military regime and another a prosecutor for Gen Musharraf’s National Accountability Bureau. They also included many in the legal fraternity, political parties, civil society and media who were ardent supporters of Gen Musharraf when he subverted the constitution and turned into his bitter critics when he dismissed Iftikhar Chaudhry.

Some of them tried to make their contribution through print and electronic media and others through marching on the streets. That the subversion of the constitution did not stir the conscience of all of the above, but the cause of a PCO judge did is a sad commentary on their credentials with respect to their principled commitment to the rule of law and democracy.

The record of political parties in this coalition also merits close scrutiny. In this respect, the role of Jamaat-i-Islami is particularly murky. It collaborated with the Yahya Khan regime in the massacre in erstwhile East Pakistan, served as the B-team to the violently repressive Ziaul Haq regime, and supported the Musharraf regime in imposing the 17th Amendment — which it now opposes! Under the circumstances, it appears to be a strange voice for judicial, civil rights and democratic causes.

The PML-N has struggled against the Musharraf dictatorship; as such, its leadership’s collaboration with Ziaul Haq’s military dictatorship can perhaps be condoned and their credentials as champions of democracy and constitutionalism accepted. However, they cannot escape responsibility for the terrible mess the country is in today in terms of institutional breakdown and internal terrorism. Notably, their then comrades-in-arms included many military and intelligence officers, some of whom are now their comrades-in-arms in the current movement.

The ex-servicemen are mostly those who served in the armed forces and its intelligence wings during the Zia dictatorship. One of them is a 1977 coup leader, another an intelligence officer who publicly claimed the right to destabilise democratic governments in the name of protecting ‘national interests’, and yet another an intelligence officer who publicly confessed to using state funds to ‘manufacture’ a political party that included the present PML-N leadership.

Some of the officers were integrally involved in the so-called Afghan jihad and in creating the jihadi infrastructure in Pakistan. Allegedly, the core of this jihadi network is located in Punjab, to the extent that the then ruling Taliban cadres in Afghanistan in the late 1990s referred to many of their commanders generically as ‘Punjabis’. Even recently, many of the terrorist perpetrators in the country have been traced to Punjab towns like Toba Tek Singh, Jhang, Rahim Yar Khan and Faridkot. The southern Punjab-centricity of all the above ‘crusaders’ is striking.

The questions that arise are: can the emergence of the above coalition be a mere coincidence? Or has the cover of the issue of Chaudhry Iftikhar’s reinstatement been used to attempt to band together Ziaist rightwing elements, denominated by the military’s national security agenda, religious parties’ theocratic agenda and the business community’s neo-liberal economic agenda? And what does this development portend for the conflict vis-à-vis democracy and federalism in the country and religious extremism in the region?

After all, there is a history of an integral nexus between PML-N leaders, now retired military and intelligence officers and Jamaat-i-Islami under the Ziaul Haq dictatorship. Of course, PML-N has attempted to cast itself in a liberal mould, but two facts militate against an unqualified acceptance of their liberal credentials. One is the fact that many of the important PML-N leaders have a background of association with religious parties, particularly Jamaat-i-Islami. And the other is the fact that it made an abortive attempt in 1998 to introduce the Sharia through the 15th Amendment to the constitution. At the least, these factors raise likely suspicions about its lack of committed opposition to a theocratic agenda.

It appears that ideological battle lines are being drawn. One side appears to coalesce with the largely Punjab-based, PML-N-led rightwing neo-conservative remnants of the Ziaist establishment, committed to a centralised state with a quasi-theocratic national security agenda. The other side appears to comprise nationally based forces, disparately comprising the PPP, ANP, MQM and Baloch parties, seeking a society sans religious bigotry and a polity that is federal and pluralistic. The choices for the people are stark and clear.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Tahmed get off the Pakistan case you miserable sellout. The Americans messed up Pakistan with their proxy cold war, making love to the "mujahideen" and now they want to ruin it again by claiming to fight the very people they nurtured. The main purpose of those dirty thugs is to make the Third World suffer through military dictators while defining agendas that are profitable only for the American elite. We need to rid ourselves of the American thugs and your kind of petty a$$ wipe brown sahibs...

GET OFF OUR CASE.

TNITC masadi

#182 RiazHaq: Agreed on the strength of the Pakistani people - lotas and arab worshippers who show up on chowk notwithstanding. However, you are wrong on the politicians. PMLN has demonstrated character in the lawyer's issue - and it seems to have learnt something in the intervening years!! Democracy does not happen overnight - and Pakistani politicians are learning the hard way why honesty is indeed a better policy than dishonesty.

Here's another report about Pakistan by Mark Bendreich of Reuters from last year:

"A little more than six years ago, immediately after the Sept. 11 attacks on U.S. cities, few sane investment advisers would have recommended Pakistani stocks.
They should have. Their clients could have made a fortune.
Since 2001, the nuclear-armed South Asian country, blamed for spawning generations of Islamic militants and threatening global security, has been making millionaires like newly minted coins.
As Western governments have fretted about Pakistan's nuclear weapons falling into the hands of militants, the Karachi Stock Exchange's main share index has risen more than 10-fold."

After falling about 60% since last year, along with stock markets in the rest of world, the KSE-100 is still 4-5 times of what it was in 2001.

Again, I invite those of you whose interest go beyond knee-jerk Pakistan bashing to learn more on my blogs.

Bottom line: Pakistan has a lot of challenges and it is going through a very rough period right now. It has tons of problems and it faces multiple crises that it must deal with. But don't underestimate the ability of its people to bounce back strongly in the future, just like it did soon after the lost decade of the 1990s when corrupt and inept politicians ruled Pakistan. Unfortunately, those same politicians and their ilk have just made a comeback in Pakistan last year through its flawed feudal democracy. But they won't last long. This nightmare will be over sooner or later.

Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Re: # 179
SPY: "Shankar's respone (#177) can be summarised in one line - "India Shining, Pakistan Declining"."

Have you or Shankar been to Pakistan? Or your entire knowledge about it is from negative media reports that have a singular focus on terrorist incidents in Pakistan?

Here's a quote from Indian writer Yoginder Sikand after his visit to Pakistan last year:

"Islamabad is surely the most well-organized,picturesque and endearing city in all of South Asia. Few Indians would, however, know this, or, if they did, would admit it. After all, the Indian media never highlights anything positive about Pakistan, because for it only 'bad' news about the country appears to be considered 'newsworthy'. That realization hit me as a rude shock the moment I stepped out of the plane and entered Islamabad's plush International Airport, easily far more efficient, modern and better maintained than any of its counterparts in India. And right through my week-long stay in the city, I could not help comparing Islamabad favorably with every other South Asian city that I have visited. That week in Islamabad consisted essentially of a long string of pleasant surprises, for I had expected Islamabad to be everything that the Indian media so uncharitably and erroneously depicts Pakistan as. The immigration counter was staffed by a smart young woman, whose endearing cheerfulness was a refreshing contrast to the grave, somber and unwelcoming looks that one is generally met with at immigration counters across the world that make visitors to a new country feel instantly unwelcome."

Here's another statement by William Dalrymple after his visit to both India and Pakistan on 60th independence anniversary of the two nations:

"On the ground, of course, the reality is different and first-time visitors to Pakistan are almost always surprised by the country's visible prosperity. There is far less poverty on show in Pakistan than in India, fewer beggars, and much less desperation. In many ways the infrastructure of Pakistan is much more advanced: there are better roads and airports, and more reliable electricity. Middle-class Pakistani houses are often bigger and better appointed than their equivalents in India.
Moreover, the Pakistani economy is undergoing a construction and consumer boom similar to India's, with growth rates of 7%, and what is currently the fastest-rising stock market in Asia. You can see the effects everywhere: in new shopping centers and restaurant complexes, in the hoardings for the latest laptops and iPods, in the cranes and building sites, in the endless stores selling mobile phones: in 2003 the country had fewer than three million cellphone users; today there are almost 50 million."

My own personal experience of visits to India and Pakistan confirms the findings of the above two authors. You can read more about it on my blog.


Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Re: # 168, 169 Hassann

"Gujarat massacre of Muslims" was very unfortunate and a dastardly act on fellow Indians, by the so called educated people and needs to be condemned.

I agree with most of your views. However for the statement "So if in the Madrassah, people who learn english and get exposed to new ideas might change." only the exposure to English may not suffice. They also need to embrace other ideas such as be democratic, accept secularism, and equality to all religions, sex etc.

English can help them become more literate but not neccessarily educated. There is a difference. It was the English speaking Saudis who did the 911. Similarly it was the literate class that did Gujrat. All of them were uneducated on the other aspects of humanity such as democratic, secularity, and equality, which need not neccessarily be tought in English.

Look at all the gulf countries, they have enough money to get all the latest technologies and English, but they cannot advance it further, as there is nobody to add / contribute further to it, either from their own people or it does not attract the best brains in the world. All these 3 factors are missing there.

RiazHaq,

Shankar's respone (#177) can be summarised in one line - "India Shining, Pakistan Declining".

This is not my statement but the world's opinion, and they have seen the two nations go almost opposite ways on almost every parameter in the last 15-20 years.

"when your country was begging the IMF for the bail out, India was sending a rocket to the moon." - Refer to the Dawn edition of 15th Nov08. News of both events is on the same page, but the two countries are at the opposite ends of the spectrum.

#173 RiazHaq: "Really? What choices do they have? Between the same old recycled politicians? Is there room for new blood in Indian politics?"

Choice has definitely improved, although it has a still a long way to go. Earlier the politicians least cared for their constitutency and public work. Nowadays every chief minister knows that he / she can survive only if he is an astute leader and show tangible results. In Delhi Shiela Dixit managed to win 3 times in a row. While Lalu after many years was beaten in Bihar, as he had nothing significant to show.

Also almost every leader is grooming their sons / daughters in politics. Although many are against it, but I see that as positive sign as I believe the young generation is generally less corrupt, more open to ideas, and in line with the current trends and demands etc.

hassan sahab,

It takes only 19 English speaking hijackers to cause havoc.

The US aid program is going to get squandered...you know it..I know it...history is a guide. All it does it allow the Pakistan military get more toys. They can dip their hands in the budget & spend whatever they want. Who is to stop them?!

meanwhile the US taxpayers have to fund Pakistan's education & infrastructure..

During Mushy's era, Pakistan got 1 billion dollars a yr & billions of forgiven loans. So Pakistan's economy started looking up. Who took the credit?! Mushy, ofcourse.

However, every ill in Pakistan, it seems, is blamed on Amrika. Hey! how about a thank you; once in a blue moon, hahn?!....I know part of my tax dollars will end up in some high rise condo in Dubai...

"Common Pakistani" blame of US is shameless. If you don't like Amrika; at least have the balls to tell the US "we don't want your money!". What's shameless is Pakistan willingly takes the money, but curses Amrika.

RiazHaq

Poverty in Pakistan has increased in the last 10 yrs, whereas in India it is decreasing. Pakistan has a worse illiteracy rate than India. Corruption is much worse in Pakistan, as per Transparency International. On human development scales, India is ahead of Pakistan.

Indian politicians are bad--but NOWHERE on the scale of Pak politicians. These guys have looted the country wholesale! Compared to the politics of Pakistan, India should be very proud of herself. Despite the fact they have a much more diverse population culturally & religiously, democracy has always been the norm. No Indian politician has raped the Constitution, like Pakistani leaders have.

When Indira Gandhi messed with the constitution, those disenfranchised Indians booted her out.

The ONE thing that Pakistan outshines India is the ability to obtain "bheek". Even though India is filled with beggars, they haven't mastered the art of getting bheek, the way Pakistan has. I don't know how many untold billions Pakistan has received since independence. Pakistan is kept afloat on aid & loans that are ultimately forgiven. Now, if the aid is squandered, the blame lies primarily in Pakistan's hand.

You can write as many blogs you want about Pakistan's technical achievements. They are nowhere compared to India's.

Remember, when your country was begging the IMF for the bail out, India was sending a rocket to the moon.

So keep living in this "we are better off than India" delusion & continue to creatively shake down the West & all your other sugar daddies...you are terrific at it.

The Indians who were born after Partition overwhelmingly are relieved that Pakistan isn't part of India. At least we can agree that Partition was the best thing that happened; in the long run.

Re: # 173 Riaz the difference is that Indian Politicians are capable of recognising national well being and national interests, and seperating them from their interests.

Pakistani elite will sell their country for a few dollars more