USA's New Afghan Strategy

Madani Sahib , i am 100 % in agreement with you.

the USSR was a great friend of Muslims.If you study the Russians and compare them with chinese or USA , the Russians are far superior.Remember china was all ready to ditch vietnam in 1971-72.it was only with USSR help that vietnam played hell with americans.
Agha Amin

Re: # 65 Interesing note. But you need to note we are suffering due to loss morality , making moneyy for mudering own people . We are not doing this for moral reasons but immoral reasons as propely referred as for blood money. When we do right things it takes long time to get any results hopefully sweet, same way we are doing immoral behaviour habitually, by habits we I become immoral nation and bad things done for long time it takes long time, over 60 years to seeding grow in huge tree with poisonous fruits.
There is is vey didatic saying in german language with guesto. But to make assesible for everybody will translate as best as possible.
If money is lost nothing is lost , if health is lost something is lost, but if CHARACTOR IS LOST THEN EVERYTHING IS LOST.
good afternoon and good luck everybody.

...when was the last time, the usa, actually, won a war......considering the massive military budgets of the usa, i am surprised, it has so many failures.......the first iraq war is the only one i can think of.....(capturing noriega was not a war).....

...this would be a clear indication that the usa military's strategic decision making is extremely poor......as poor as pakistan's, if not worse.......

.....so if the brainpower of strategic decision making in afghanistan, is usa, followed by pakistan, then the chance of winning is next to zero.......

.......the afghan war has gone on longer than wwII.....i am quite sure this wasn't the original plan......if it hasn't been won yet, i doubt it will ever be won by the usa.....pretty soon allies like canada, etc. are going to start moving their troops out.....

what happens then?

.....setting aside all these theories about encircling china and russia, or destabilizing pakistan, etc......(which till proven are still theories), one has to look at the current war, itself........

.........the usa has lost......pakistan, stupidly, joining the usa has lost......it is time for pakistan to cut its losses, and to get out of this un-winnable war......

......there is a direct relationship between terrorism in pakistan and the usa's invasion of afghanistan........this is not a coincidence.......how many suicide bombings were there in pakistan, prior to usa's invasion of afghanistan?.......in fact, in the history of the ghandhara and indus civilization, how many were there?.......how many are there now.....

......to say, it was pakisatan's war is ridiculous......it never was......however, now that pakistan has jumped into it wholeheartedly, with the usa, it has moved into pakistan......and the longer pakistan stays involved in it, the deeper it will move in......

never follow a losing cause.......usa has lost in afghanistan......pakistan needs to disengage.......let the usa encircle china or iran or timbaktu on its own......

after pakistan disengages, it will take another x no. of years, to filter out the mess that has moved into pakistan, because of its participation in this war (and in the previous one)......

pakistan needs to decide: - pakistan should stay in this war and increase its participation, because a terrorist attack has occurred in lahore......or the terrorist attack occurred because pakistan got into this war in the first place?

......i wonder what the usa would have done, if so many terrorist attacks were occurring in its cities.......i think it would have dumped afghanistan and left it a long time ago.....i can say with certainity, its nato allies would have left (and will leave)........

whenever a country becomes the logistical supply line of a war, it gets pulled into the war.....which is what has happened.....

Mr. A. Amin.... With time it is appearing state of pakistan from first day it became mercantile operation and army entered in renting business. It started as begging operation for 30 billion marshall plan in 1948 as suggested and always thinking in terms anti soviet base which was very regressive. It was sin for in 50s soviets were only obstacle to old emperialist urges by british and new mighty americans. It was extremely against people struggling to free themselves to go away from colonial entanglements. Suez Canal was classic example when L.A.Khan etc openly sided with British, frenchand israili taking of suez canal. Even USA was appaled by naked use of muscle power. There was no reason for antisoviet attitude . On world scene muslims were helped by soviets. Persons like Bena Bella of algeria, Nassar , Ho Chi Minh , Lumumba and throughout world even after devasting losses of 2nd world war ( over 22 million deaths and devastation of western industrial regins to south towards cacuous mountain was devasted) only soviets were trying to help new emerging nations. Miserably and immoral PK leadership was ganging up against and ready to stab aginst all liberation movements internally and externally. We never felt bad or remorse that we have become house of ill repute for americans and aided and allowed airbases allowing flights over SU. That is national tragedy , not even Bhutto or any other expressed sorry or asked for forgiveness from SU. We lost morality and we will kill , muder anybody if price is right. Now all parties from rightwing to centerleft readily accept role as surrogate of usa. It is pretty hypocritical now to complaint about USA drones. It just not tactics for more dollars. Not even one leader of worth any following openly says stop this money for murder business and stop engaging in extracurricular activities. Progressive world treated pakistan as nation to be avoided . People in life we regard gentlema when they are not back stabbers or thriving on blood money. It pains me why no one suggests let us impriove morally ourselves and do our wrk hardway at home. Everybody is for begging ball and complaint against America is just about rate for rent. Hard and moral life is far better mporally and it is worth. If we fail as nation for moral ways and suffer financially we will have respect for ourselves but now we are failing even our national ill plans of becoming little sucker on American largeness and going as hired hands. Average man understands what is hapening and general immorality make Talibs as sincere fanatics,but at least moral in their way and that attracts awams under current symapathy and many people root for lessons for rent for price army.
It depresses me quite, so in retirement try help students in mathematics, listen to music and may times leave reading news ,Play with my cats, I am blessed can not watch much , saves seeing obscene immoral talking parroting slavary and pick pocketting money.
It is depressing not only economy but our economic ways about morality.

Insurgent Threat Shifts in Pakistan
Assault on Police Academy Indicates Risk Has Moved Beyond Tribal Areas

By Pamela Constable
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, March 31, 2009; A01

KABUL, March 30 -- The brazen occupation of a Pakistani police academy Monday by heavily armed gunmen near the eastern mega-city of Lahore was the latest indication that Islamist terrorism, once confined to Pakistan's northwest tribal belt, now threatens political stability nationwide.

The precisely orchestrated assault by a squad of young men, which left at least 11 people dead and took security forces nearly eight hours to quell, was also a likely sign that Islamist militant groups in Punjab province, once tolerated and even supported by the Pakistani state to fight in India and Afghanistan, have turned openly against the government.

The assault in the once-peaceful Punjabi heartland came four weeks after an attack in Lahore in which gunmen opened fire on a visiting Sri Lankan cricket team, killing seven people. The latest attack raised new questions about the vulnerability of Pakistan, a nuclear-armed Muslim state with a weak civilian government that only recently emerged from a decade of military rule. Lahore, home to more than 10 million people, is a bustling provincial capital and is generally considered the cultural heart of the country.

"The realization that this problem is now no longer confined to a buffer zone with Afghanistan must dawn on everyone in Pakistan," said Shuja Nawaz, a Pakistani American military expert, speaking from Washington. "Pakistan has the wherewithal to deal with the problem, but does its leadership have the will to do so?"

Pakistani officials, normally given to blaming India or other foreign adversaries for fomenting anti-government violence, were unusually frank in denouncing Monday's attack as the probable work of domestic terrorists, who they said were attempting to destabilize the country.

Rehman Malik, the government's top civilian security official, told journalists in Islamabad, the capital, that there are "thousands of trained workers of banned militant organizations present in Pakistan who could be used by foreign elements." He mentioned three armed Islamist groups -- Lashkar-i-Taiba, Lashkar-i-Jhangvi and Jaish-i-Muhammad -- and said the perpetrators had staged an "assault on the integrity of the country."

At least a dozen young assailants traveling on foot used grenades, assault rifles and rockets to commandeer a rural training compound in Manawan, just a few miles from the border with India, as hundreds of police recruits were beginning early morning parade drills. The attackers took dozens of trainees hostage and held security forces at bay until late afternoon, when a commando team stormed the complex, killing several gunmen. Some of the gunmen who survived the raid surrendered, while others blew themselves up.

Witnesses to the siege, including police trainees who managed to escape the compound as the fighting continued, said they heard the attackers speaking in Punjabi and in a southeast Pakistani dialect.

The escapees described seeing 15 to 20 armed men in their 20s, many of whom had beards and some of whom wore suicide vests. They said some of the attackers were dressed in police uniforms, while others were wearing masks.

No group has asserted responsibility for the attack, but Pakistani experts said the most likely source was Lashkar-i-Taiba, or Army of the Pious, a militant Punjabi group. With help from the military, it was formed in the early 1990s to fight in the disputed region of Indian Kashmir, but later broadened its Islamist agenda and was banned by the government several years ago.

The group is affiliated with a large religious school based at a campus near Lahore. Officials have found evidence linking it to several other recent terrorist attacks, including a three-day siege in the Indian city of Mumbai that killed more than 170 people in November, and a suicide truck bombing that killed more than 50 people at Islamabad's luxury Marriott Hotel in September.

Pakistan has been an incubator for Islamist militant groups for the past several decades. Until recently, they were focused on external conflicts, especially the dispute over Indian Kashmir, the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan during the 1980s and the presence of U.S.-led forces in Afghanistan since the fall of the Taliban in late 2001.

In the past several years, extremist groups along the Afghan border have turned inward, spreading violence and religious fanaticism among the ethnic Pashtun populace in Pakistan's northwest. Pakistan has tried to contain the problem through a combination of military offensives and political negotiations, which are underway in several conflicted border districts.

The Obama administration, faced with a protracted war against Taliban insurgents in Afghanistan, has just launched a regional anti-terrorist strategy that conditions economic aid to Pakistan on tougher Pakistani action against insurgents based in safe havens along the border. U.S. officials have publicly charged that some elements of Pakistan's army and intelligence services still support the fighters as a counterweight to India.

Now, however, the increasing pattern of insurgent assaults against high-profile government and civilian targets in other regions of the country -- especially in Punjab, the traditional home of Pakistan's large and powerful armed forces -- suggests that militancy has spun out of the government's control.

"The nexus between the militants in Punjab and in the tribal areas has been clear for some time now," Nawaz said. "Now the question is whether the government can penetrate and dismantle these networks. The army is overstretched, so we have to start dealing with the causes of militancy -- the vast gap between rich and poor, the lack of governance -- that Pakistan has neglected for so long."

Special correspondent Aoun Sahi in Lahore contributed to this report.

#47 Posted by Hasho on March 30, 2009 8:00:32 pm



Intelligence does not work in the simple ways.


yeah..they do complicated things like running newspapers..like the asia times..

did you know asia times is a front for an intel agency..a chowkie exposed it as such..

#29 Posted by masadi on March 30, 2009 5:58:27 pm


In the words of Zbigniew Brzezinski, "What was more important in the world view of history? The Taliban or the fall of the Soviet Empire?


Zbig was a Carter man. And how does a rational person go from this quote to "the US created the taliban"..

the fact of the matter is that your government could have rolled back the jihadi infrastructure after the soviets left...but they thought they'd hit pay dirt..they not only doubled down, the went all in..mortgaged their home to bet on the elusive strategic depth..

you can continue to rant and rave but the taliban are your own damn fault..

roses are red, violets are blue, the jihadis YOU created are now killing you..

and killing you in spades..

#18 Posted by masadi on March 30, 2009 12:11:42 pm


You recognized the 'made in America' stamp on the shalwars of the attackers also


I heard the jews were responsible for the attack on the paki police academy..i've heard from reliable sources that there were no jews in the academy on the day of the attack..

Agha Sahib,

I respect your analyses despite the fact that sometimes I do not agree with them. But you have a learned and educated approach towards such matters.

This is one of those occasions when I disagree with your basic premis that the core purpose of US is to encircle China and Russia - but the question is for what. This is not 18th century anymore where one power could physically occupy trade routes and impose terriffs etc. Had this been the case Pakistani territory would have been the safest area to establish their military bases. Pakistan's rent-a-fouj has already given several thousand acres of prime land on 99 years lease to US at the coast of Thatta. My sources tell me that several bases also exist in Baluchistan since 80's which are not disclosed to the public. Us could have established a South Korea like relationship with Pakistan and could have successfuly contained the Russia and China (whatever that means). Afghanistan on the other hand is a death trap and it will still be a death trap 50 years later - if US managed to survive that long.

I respectfully contend and no offence to you but the stated US intentions towards china or Russia are pure fabrication of rent-a-fouj and the corrupt, pro-western puppet elite who are fighting on behalf of their masters in Washington. The fact of the matter is that the US Empire that came into existence due to the Atlantic Charter signed by Churchill and FDR is now facing its most deadly challenge right now. There is an awakening in the Muslim world for the freedom and there is yearning for soveriegnity. Together with that there is a deeply rooted feeling among Muslim masses that in this rapidly shrinking global village there is a concerted effort by imeprial powers to keep them as the third class citizens of world community. Besides that, the law of nature is that what goes up must come down. In other words the days of American empire have been numbered.

The US strategy to create vested inetersts of every other country in its system has worked. But US has betrayed the trust of whole world. Slowly but surely rest of the world is reducing its dependence on US economic system so that next time when American crooks strike and squander their money they must have plan B ready. In other words the backbone of US sytem has been broken for good.

The U.S. really didn't know that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were civilian towns, they really thought they were military bases....right Tahmed?

You are so outrageously immoral that you're not worth a rat's fart...

TNITC masadi

I would like people who undrstrand the gravity of the situation to read this article that has appeared in Armed forces Journal.

Agha you should read this article.
http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2009/04/3901424
By BY COL. DOUGLAS MACGREGOR (RET.)
“Sir, I am deeply concerned about Iraq. The task you have given me is becoming really impossible ... if they (Sunni and Shiite) are not prepared to urge us to stay and to co-operate in every manner I would actually clear out. ... At present we are paying eight millions a year for the privilege of living on an ungrateful volcano out of which we are in no circumstances to get anything worth having.�

Winston Churchill to British Prime Minister David Lloyd George, Sept. 1, 1922
He further writes:
"Despite the seriousness of the present economic crisis, the greatest danger to the future security of the U.S. is Washington’s inclination to impose political solutions with the use of American military power in many parts of the world where Washington’s solutions are unneeded and unsustainable."
One more money quote
"The lesson is a straightforward one: Will we continue to pursue global hegemony with the use of military power to control and shape development inside other societies? Or will we use our military power to maintain our market-oriented English-speaking republic, a republic that upholds the rule of law, respects the cultures and traditions of people different from ourselves, and trades freely with all nations, but protects its sovereignty, its commerce, its vital strategic interests and its citizens?"
Here is the last one:
Far too often, national decision-making has been shaped primarily by the military capability to act, not by a rigorous application of the purpose/method/end-state strategic framework.

Decision-making of this kind explains why Operation Iraqi Freedom never had a coherent strategic design.

Macgregor argues for general conflict avoidance as the best mindset and strategy:

As a declaratory goal of U.S. military strategy, conflict avoidance is not merely a restatement of deterrence or a new affirmation of collective security. It is a policy stance that stems from a decent regard for the interests of others, regardless of how strange and obtuse these interests may seem to Americans. It is an explicit recognition by Washington that no one in Asia, Africa, the Middle East or Latin America wants American troops to police and govern their country, even if American troops are more capable, more honest and provide better security than their own soldiers and police."

On Iran and Afghanistan he writes:

"Treating conflict avoidance as a declared strategic goal should give pause to those in Washington who think counterinsurgency is something American military forces should seek to conduct. For outside powers intervening in other peoples’ countries as we have done in Iraq and Afghanistan, so-called counterinsurgency has not been the success story presented to the American people. Making cash payments to buy cooperation from insurgent groups to conceal a failed policy of occupation is a temporary expedient to reduce U.S. casualties, not a permanent solution for stability."

The result of the Bush mindset:

"The result is an unnecessarily large defense budget of more than $700 billion and military thinking that seeks to reinvigorate the economically disastrous policies of territorial imperialism. Unchecked, the combination of these misguided policies will increase the likelihood the U.S. follows the path of Britain’s decline in the 20th century.
...
A strategy of refusing battle that routinely answers the questions of purpose, method and end-state in the conduct of military operations is the best way for the U.S. to avoid following in the footsteps of the British Empire into ruin."

More BS. The Zia government didn't 'insist', that was how the Americans wanted it to be so that Pakistan would be the 'fall guy'and the Pakistan Army that always submits to the Americans in fact it is an American outfit did so working DIRECTLY with the Americans- there was no seperation. The ISI was just the visible face you moron, it is called 'plausible deniability'- don't you get this simple point.

What you had written was this :Tahmed: "The fact is that during the Soviet-Afghan war, ISI insisted that the US give resources only to Zia government, and the Zia government would then be "sole distributor" of weapons and funds. Zia then used this opportunity to build up the fundamentalists."

You are suggesting that the fundamentalists were built up by Zia even though the Americans didn't want it and they had no clue what was going on in that proxy "cold war" they were fighting. You must be a damn fool to believe that....

They knew exactly where the money was going and what was being 'built up'.

TNITC masadi

now i have to go. as my brother says - if you run with the turkeys, you become a turkey yourself. i dont want to become a turkey like Fasadi.. No sir!!

now i have to go. as my brother says - if you run with the turkeys, you become a turkey yourself. i dont want to become a turkey like Fasadi.. No sir!!

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HP: that is not what this twit masadi has been arguing about. He has been refusing to accept (until now when he cleverly changed his story - cleverly by moron standards, i.e.) that the Zia government insisted on being the arms/funds distributor to the afghan groups.