USA's New Afghan Strategy

Re: # 130

the pashtuns led by my personal friend Aslam Watanjar were in the fore front of the Saur Revolution of 1978.The real hard core of Afghan leftists Tarraki and Hafeezullah Amin and Dr Najeeb were Pashtuns.So was the indomitable Gulabozai the interior minister who got the highest number of votes in 2005 elections.

now all educated and patriotic afghans hate the pakistani illegitimate military junta of zia which played the foremost role in destruction of all of Afghanistans infra structure from 1978 till 1988 for US dollars.

it is a misperception to state that non pashtuns sided with soviets.all educated and aware afghans pashtuns or non pashtuns sided with soviets.

now a word on motivation of pakistans zia regime fpr supporting afghan war.all for dollars and pakistan got 1000 times more than what it spent on afghans.some benefits:--

1-major aid packages from USA and saudis
2-second third and fourth highway loans from world bank
3-many other loans from europe japan etc

Sultan Khan Foreign secretary and ambassador to USA states in his book memoirs of a pakistani diplomat that i 1979 zia was ready to side with USSR for dollars in case USA did not give him dollars.

mr riaz haq needs to brush up his history knowledge.

without afghan war of 1978-92 and 2001-9 pakistan still would have been a backward country with fewer roads and infra structure.

no afghan worth his salt needs to be grateful to pakistan.

100 USD were paid to so called mujahids per electric pole for destruction.so this was the reason why afghans should be grateful.


Agha Amin

Re: # 117

Arjun: "The reality is that most afghans hate paki guts..including almost all the afghans I know in the US..."

Based on my own personal interactions with Afghans, the Pashtuns , the largest ethnic group in Afghanistan, are quite friendly with Pakistan and Pakistanis in general. The non-Pashtuns, a minority, including Tajiks and Uzbeks are more friendly with India and many of them sided with the Soviet Union in the 1980s.

It appears that most of the respondents of this poll you cite are ethnic Tajiks and Uzbeks, supporters of the anti-Pak, anti-Taliban, and pro-India Northern Alliance.

Another reality that Atjun fails to point out is that Pakistan has been the best friend of the Afghans through think and thin, even at the expense of its own security and stability. Pakistan is host to the vast majority of Afghan refugees in the world, it's the main source of food to Afghans, and it's been the exit route for majority of the ungrateful Afghans now in the US.


Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Masadi is on to something and for 1ce I think there is quite a bit of truth in the same.

Arming Pak = Harming India

Arming Pak = Making them ally

Pak being targeted by Jihadis (most of their own manufacture some not) with tacit complicity of army police and intelligence people sympathetic to them

Pak in term targeting India with the establishment jihadis

India cannot retaliate due to US pressure

Retaliation may come against Indian muslims at some point of time

Game plan for disaster

Sanatani

Baitullah threatens attack on White House

Wednesday, April 01, 2009
Claims responsibility for Lahore and other attacks

By Mushtaq Yusufzai

PESHAWAR: Breaking his long silence, dreaded militant commander Baitullah Mahsud on Tuesday claimed responsibility for a series of recent terrorist attacks, including the Monday’s assault on a police training centre in Lahore.

Also, the top militant commander and leader of the banned Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), threatened to show his power to the world when his people would attack the US capital as a reaction to frequent drone attacks in the tribal areas and the reward on his head. The United States, it may be mentioned here, has offered a $5 million reward for his head.

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There is some indication that the US has grasped the reality of pakistan. Today for the first time, Hilary has declared that pakistan is a global problem and all have to contribute. What I had been telling all along, london, 9/11, mumbai, philippinbes the common thread is pakistan, and with good reason due to the new strain of islam.

This can be contained only through a global action, de-nuking pakistan and resizing it. What is increasingly demonstrated is the convergence of paki army with the jihadis. Only a military action can defeat both, there is no way that the paki army will contain the jihadis, who share the same ideals with the paki army.

Re: # 126
majumdar,

Every one knows that the drones are operating with the paki armys support and they are operated from pakistan. The army has convinced the jihadis that the drones are due to the civil govt, the army is on their side, and are directing the jihadis to attack civil structures.

May be more than a year ago I had posted that the jihadis will respond to drone attacks with attacks in paki cities.

In pakistan the attacks like that in lahore and other places do not create much interest. Take the case of long march, many participated. A march to fight killings will not work. Most of the people of pakistan feel that the lahore type attacks are legitimate jihadi attacks.

All through pakistan there is wide spread support for the notion of jihad and as such they do not care.

No one is talking about benzir or marriot attacks. No one is arrested, no trials. They have a commission of inquiry, no criminal proceedings. A jihadic killing is not a crime in pakistan.

Jayp Garu,

The Us has responded to the lahore attack.

Some Pakistanis killed other Pakistanis in Lahore. Arjun mian's friends have responded by killing some more Pakistanis. Now Catchy mian's friends are going to retaliate by killing more Pakistanis.

Kinda wierd.

Regards

What next after lahore

It is important to note that the jihadis attack only the police and the para military which are in civil govt control. Military establishments are never attacked.

Now the police have arrested a few jihadis. The next step is a few paki army soldiers will be kdnapped. The paki army will force the police to release the jihadis in return for the paki army soldiers.

This is typically teh way the paki army support the jihadis. There is clear indication that the lahore attack is an isi operation.

The arrested jihadis by the police will be released soon at insistence of the paki military.

It is important to note that all those captured in response to the mumbai attack are in the paki military custody, not the paki police custody to ensure that their links to the ISI do not come out.

Understanding the pak situation

For quite some time, the pakis have been advancing the notion of good jihadis and bad jihadis. Now the world has accepted that there is no such notion as a good jihadi.

The next learning for the world is that there is no difference between paki army and jihadis. The main bulk of both come from the madrassas and many do not realize that the paki army also is a jihadic army, " jihad in the name of god' is their motto.

That is the very reason why the paki army does not fight the jihadis. All along they typically provide some warnings to the jihadis, once they are away, the go with helicopters and demolish vacant mud huts which the jihadis build back in a few days.

Even with all the bribe that the US is providing, there is no way that the paki army is going to attack the jihadis. Most of the time they simply surrender as per their training routine to the jihadis.

PESHAWAR, PAKISTAN: A suspected US missile strike hit a suspected Taliban and al-Qaida training centre in northwest Pakistan on Wednesday,
killing 12 militants, security officials said.

Two missiles struck the suspected Taliban and al-Qaida den, 25 kilometres (16 miles) northeast of Hangu in the semi-autonomous Orakzai tribal region, an extremist stronghold in northwest Pakistan, a security official said.

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The Us has responded to the lahore attack.

Re: # 117,118 Mr Arjun... The indian popularity is more than usa and pakistan for simple reason they are not much involved or has no influence as usa and pkistan.This is normal thing all around. Normally Iceland will have good rating everywhere as they hve not influence so people IMAGINE they are better than others present.And from long distance mountain appears green. Some time little things count more than real things. India tried best to Save Najib up to end and almost they were about fly, he and his brother.Najib is remember by Afghans as after departure of russians he tried his level best till mr.A Rashid dostam decided to back stab him. So all pathans and others who were opposed to Talibs were grateful to efforts of India and they were nearly successful before ISI got info and they moved fast to stop aNajib and executed. Abdulla Abdulla, Najib, and many others families lived in India is well known fact. Indians have done good in propaganda dept like giving 6 very old planes to start airline, Hospital in Kabou and Tajikstan ( tajik leader masud after killing attempt was flown to Indian hospital in Tstan, artificial legs provision , providing over 200 busses is peanuts compared to money spent by usa per day. Indians has good Publicity dept and one has to agree. Then road joing towards Chahbahar is really done to break dependence on Karahi not out of love.And one thing poor uneducated people like ismovies and Indians produce bunch ofthem compared to Pakistan or usa. American movies in english wthout dance and songs is not starter and Pakistani movies are discriminated. Indian movies taeget lowest denominator of afghans and they like dumbed down indian movies. People are crazy about movies, even some Talibs watch secretly risking their head .
Hope you will understand cheap and valger people and their movies are always popular. People make wrong choices based on wrong speculation.
Ratings do not count, how much India has power to change things there . compared to Pakistan nothing. Indians Afghan think are good but for nothing worth much than vulger movies and sensuous typpe songs laced with vulger and bad thoughts.
Good day. Move to real things , this vote coutning is useless.

the central point that is being made is that USA is in Afghanistan for a long term plan.twits like pakistan are not its ultimate targets.pakistan at best is an irritant.china and russia are the real issue for USA.

on the other hand Russia and China will not allow USA to succeed,whatever strategy Obama recites after being fed a script.

Pakistan has no Afghan policy or any policy.General Zia was after survival for his illegitimate regime and as per foreign secretary sultan khan was as keen to join USSR after afghan invasion as long as USSR gave him the money.So there was no policy.

The real essence of the matter is that this is the struggle of the anglo saxon dominated atlantic rim and the central contender states led by china and russia.as long as the conflict in the two remains hot pakistan or any smaller countries benefit.

in pakistan th main hurdle to peace are the generals who gain in a state of perpetual conflict with india.

these generals in turn orchrestrate the game of musical chairs of politicians .

the main theme was not that russia is good or bad .that was going off the tangent.

i still maintain that pakistan is a short term target and russia and china are long term objectives of USA.
Agha Amin

Oye Roos aur Amrika ki qabroN k mujawaro! kabhi pakistani bhi ban kar dekho.

Re: # 89
pavo...
exactly...as a friend, USSR was less subjugative than NATO and USA and far more committed.....but as a friendly nation, most of the countries, which sided with NATO/USA benefitted more than those aligned with USSR...India is classic example of this.... When China shifted from USSR camp to USA camp, they have started seeing the light of prosperity....Pakistan would have been like any typical islamic (like that of Afghanistan) and was bound to doom...whether Pakistan sided with USA or not....at least USA is delaying that final destiny of Pakistan, through aid and other helps....as leaden said, may be within another 15 years...entire Pakistan will be isotope of 7th century Medina.....

I know pakis have a problem with reality...now, it turns out, they have a slight math problem too..

take a look at the favorability ratings for countries...

pakiland has a whopping 91% disapproval rating in afghanistan..

of course, pakiland's favorability rating in the Us is at 12%...

reality is biased against pakis..

capt clueless type pakis love to pull facts out of their rears and act all knowledgeable..

The reality is that most afghans hate paki guts..including almost all the afghans I know in the US...

Here's a BBC poll

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/05_02_09afghan_poll_2009.pdf



Q35. Do you think the Pakistan government is allowing the Taliban to operate within its borders, or trying to stop the Taliban from operating there?
2009
Is allowing :67
Trying to stop: 24
No opinion: 9


Q38. Now I’m going to ask what you think about some people and groups. Is your opinion of …… very favorable, somewhat favorable, somewhat unfavorable, or very unfavorable?

The Taliban
Very favourable :3
Somewhat favourable: 4
Somewhat unfavourable: 12
Very unfavourable: 79
No opinion:2

The United States
Very favourable :7
Somewhat favourable: 40
Somewhat unfavourable: 25
Very unfavourable: 27
No opinion:1

Pakistan
Very favourable :1
Somewhat favourable: 7
Somewhat unfavourable: 26
Very unfavourable: 65
No opinion:1


India
Very favourable :27
Somewhat favourable: 47
Somewhat unfavourable: 13
Very unfavourable: 8
No opinion:5

shankar #: "This seems like a classic whore/john relationship. The whore does what she does because the alternative is worse than the profession...."

yes, this is true........but, true only at the govt. level.....not at the people's level......by the way, the alternative is much better for pakistan; though not for the elected elite.....

.....i am in pakistan, and there is a change in the air....i have never seen anything like it before in my life, in pakistan.....there is a great amount of fear and hope for the future.....no one knows which one will win out........

i had, always, said that pakistan does not have the pre-requisite social maturity to become an immediate democracy etc., hence economic growth should be used as an engine to reach such maturity.....

perhaps, i could not have been more wrong.....

......there is a social maturity rapidly developing in pakistan......civil society is coming alive, in a manner, which i have not seen anywhere......it is kind of like the formulative years of the usa, french (or indian) democracy......

......of the four pillars of the state, media is fully up and running......pakistani news analysis, coverage, balance etc. is better than what i have seen in most places......much better than what i see in india (e.g. the recent terrorist caught in lahore is an afghani, but the pakistani media hasn't riled up the whole country to attack afghanistan; like india's media did after mumbai).....

......the judiciary is starting to mature......a national movement to restore judges is something i have not seen anywhere......usually, such movements are for politicians.....

......this leaves the executive and legislature......these have a long way to go to get to the level of, even, india; much less to the level of western democracies.....

......but these are being forced to come around, due to the media and judiciary......musharraf, the mighty executive is a defeated and humiliated man......as is salman taseer (was never mighty).....and zardari is well on his way to the same fate.....nawaz etc. have been forced to change their ways......

this leaves the legislature......it has passed resolutions to disengage from the war.......but, as per your definition, the leadership is still in the hands of those who are very scared of the usa (unnecessarily in my opinion).......

this will change......there is already a lot of pressure on the legislature and executive to change......i think one more election, and pakistan will grow balls........

the only question is what will happen in between........baitullah mehsud launches an attack in lahore to avenge deaths from usa drones........usa keeps asking (threatening) pakistan govt. to support drone attacks, as it wants to kill baitullah mehsuds......

pakistan was never at war with baitullah and never at war with the usa.....yet the people being killed by both are pakistanis......this is why it needs to get out of this war.....

p.s. i have always wondered why pakistan has had massive balls to stand up to (and even threaten and attack) india - a country eight times its size in every way.......yet never has the balls to even squeak in front of the usa........