Agha Amin March 29, 2009
#1 Posted by ahmedmadani on March 29, 2009 10:03:06 pm
This is prelude to declare victory and leave Pakistan exposed to wrath of Locals.The postscript is already written. As Earlier system of King is destroyed this will lead to partition of Uzbek, Tajik, Hazara, ministates. Talibs will take over south areas and they can expand will move south detrimental to control of I-Bad of this areas. Americans are not serious in fighting , they have complete command of sky no stinger missiles still they have no will.
There is army whic looking for commanders and some goals.
We we employed as last non nato friends, and as they wound up and leave they will fire from job of friend and leave problems.
We have extreme educated people in foreign ministry but they have no say.
I feel 1.5 billion poured ( which is about 90 dollars=7200 rs is not small amount) will create problems in long term. If I have no money I do not waste but some body give such help then I will get in bad habit and just waste. Free aid is just like injecting aids virous, it is terminal kills economy. Corroupt people always walk on short cut to calamities, they make choices.
As usual you write very good.
Post script: About 1965, tank debacle you wrote I have heard such things. You can tell if it has any significance.
I am told those were American Patton type tanks and they were far superior and better than indians have. Only problem was they were too heavy so in soft agricultural land they just sank in mud. Once they sank they became sitting ducks for Russian RPGs directed at their tracks. Also unfortunately military tractors to pull this heavy machine were not available. So advantage of 7 to 1 was not real as many tanks sank and struck up in mud.
Good day.
There is army whic looking for commanders and some goals.
We we employed as last non nato friends, and as they wound up and leave they will fire from job of friend and leave problems.
We have extreme educated people in foreign ministry but they have no say.
I feel 1.5 billion poured ( which is about 90 dollars=7200 rs is not small amount) will create problems in long term. If I have no money I do not waste but some body give such help then I will get in bad habit and just waste. Free aid is just like injecting aids virous, it is terminal kills economy. Corroupt people always walk on short cut to calamities, they make choices.
As usual you write very good.
Post script: About 1965, tank debacle you wrote I have heard such things. You can tell if it has any significance.
I am told those were American Patton type tanks and they were far superior and better than indians have. Only problem was they were too heavy so in soft agricultural land they just sank in mud. Once they sank they became sitting ducks for Russian RPGs directed at their tracks. Also unfortunately military tractors to pull this heavy machine were not available. So advantage of 7 to 1 was not real as many tanks sank and struck up in mud.
Good day.
#2 Posted by ahmedmadani on March 29, 2009 10:04:40 pm
Re: # 1 90dollars=7200 rs/ per person is not pocket money if directly given people will likebut will looted as usual
#3 Posted by pavocavalry on March 29, 2009 10:14:00 pm
1965 , it was poor planning and execution at brigade divisional and army level.the terrain issue came into operation only after initial advantage of superiority at the decisive point was reduced.Pattons were top class tanks.Just see the tank unit lost was because they did not calculate the fuel and their fuel was finished.
Agha Amin
Agha Amin
#4 Posted by fuzair on March 30, 2009 8:07:18 am
Interesting article, Major Saab. While I disagree on some key points, you are the man on the spot (IIRC, you are based in Kabul?) so I will defer to your opinion. I do have two questions.
1 I've heard that Pakistan (Musharraf) had proposed fencing large sections of the border (a la India in Kashmir) but the Afghans vehemently refused. Presumably this was because it would mean a recognition of the Durand Line? Any comments on this?
2 Just how significant is the Indian, especially military, presence in Afghanistan? I know their BRO built Zagrang-Dilaram highway to connect Afghanistan to the Iranian road network, and the Indians are building Chabahar Port, but is there a significant training presence? Are ANA officers being sent to the Indian Army's Counter-Insurgency School as I've seen some reports? Are there any IA trainers in Afghanistan? Also, any truth to the reports that RAW is arming and training the Pakistani Taliban?
Sorry, have given you quite a list.
1 I've heard that Pakistan (Musharraf) had proposed fencing large sections of the border (a la India in Kashmir) but the Afghans vehemently refused. Presumably this was because it would mean a recognition of the Durand Line? Any comments on this?
2 Just how significant is the Indian, especially military, presence in Afghanistan? I know their BRO built Zagrang-Dilaram highway to connect Afghanistan to the Iranian road network, and the Indians are building Chabahar Port, but is there a significant training presence? Are ANA officers being sent to the Indian Army's Counter-Insurgency School as I've seen some reports? Are there any IA trainers in Afghanistan? Also, any truth to the reports that RAW is arming and training the Pakistani Taliban?
Sorry, have given you quite a list.
#5 Posted by masadi on March 30, 2009 9:23:24 am
The author writes "The simple truth is that war in Afghanistan is about the presence of US and other Christian troops and not about Al Qaeda. Hardly 5% of USA's opponents in Afghanistan are Al Qaeda."
Amin sahib, the US is not interested in Afghanistan, it is now interested in Pakistan to continue its 'war with no end'. Can you not see how Afghanistan is being linked to Pakistan now and was not immediately post 9/11 when the interest was Iraq. Also you mention 14000 Soviet casualties but fail to mention the 1.5 million Afghans that were butchered because the US was willing to fight to the last Afghan without expending one US life? Also, you fail to note how skilfully the U.S. constructed the 3000 odd "Arab Afghans" as if they were the owners of the victory over the Soviets, all leading to this new World War they were thinking of to keep their 'permanent war economy' going, when the Cold War fizzled out.
TNITC masadi
Amin sahib, the US is not interested in Afghanistan, it is now interested in Pakistan to continue its 'war with no end'. Can you not see how Afghanistan is being linked to Pakistan now and was not immediately post 9/11 when the interest was Iraq. Also you mention 14000 Soviet casualties but fail to mention the 1.5 million Afghans that were butchered because the US was willing to fight to the last Afghan without expending one US life? Also, you fail to note how skilfully the U.S. constructed the 3000 odd "Arab Afghans" as if they were the owners of the victory over the Soviets, all leading to this new World War they were thinking of to keep their 'permanent war economy' going, when the Cold War fizzled out.
TNITC masadi
#6 Posted by bittersweetmojo on March 30, 2009 9:32:59 am
agreed with Masadi on this.
The US War Economy would crumble like a pack of cards if there were no Iraq n Afghanistan.
Americans are sick, a curse to humanity, rotten-to-the-core demons!
-E
The US War Economy would crumble like a pack of cards if there were no Iraq n Afghanistan.
Americans are sick, a curse to humanity, rotten-to-the-core demons!
-E
#7 Posted by masadi on March 30, 2009 9:36:15 am
It is not the Americans, their elite are the ones rotten-to-the-core, people just fill position within a heavily propagandized structure...
#8 Posted by bittersweetmojo on March 30, 2009 9:49:31 am
Masadi,
It's Americans, because they pay taxes for war crimes their elite commits worldwide. It's Americans who chanted "go for it, go for it!" when Bush waged war in Iraq n Afghanistan. Hell yeah, everything has a price! The only difference is that we are paying a price for being an Imperilist's stooge.
Well, I am begining to believe that if we Pakistanis are held responsible for everything our rulers do, why not hold Americans responsible for electing Bush for second term, even after watching Moore's documentaries and knowing the commission report.
-E
It's Americans, because they pay taxes for war crimes their elite commits worldwide. It's Americans who chanted "go for it, go for it!" when Bush waged war in Iraq n Afghanistan. Hell yeah, everything has a price! The only difference is that we are paying a price for being an Imperilist's stooge.
Well, I am begining to believe that if we Pakistanis are held responsible for everything our rulers do, why not hold Americans responsible for electing Bush for second term, even after watching Moore's documentaries and knowing the commission report.
-E
#9 Posted by RiazHaq on March 30, 2009 10:07:35 am
I think Obama recognizes that US must abandon, or at least put on hold, any imperial ambitions for a while. The reality of sustainability of such an empire on borrowed money is staring him in the face. The US national debt is $11 trillion and exploding. The president of China, the biggest lender to US, is getting about America's ability to repay. So China is going big in Asia and Africa to develop new export markets to replace the declining exports to US. I think the current financial crisis is causing a lot of rethinking in Washington, Beijing and elsewhere.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide
#10 Posted by masadi on March 30, 2009 10:44:35 am
BS sahib, there were large groups of people who protested the war in America, the American people are victims of their government as well, the bottom 40% own zero wealth the top 1% more than 50% of it if we take owner occupied homes out of the equation- power is skewed, money determines political office and ownership as well as information is thoroughly controlled through an elite dominated media (5 corporations to be exact). Under these circumstances I think very highly of those that break out of this control and protest their country's aggression while I don't blame those trapped as cogs in this machinery of oppression. Pakistanis on the other hand know what is going on, circumstance is their best educator and they cause real change as they recently did....Like I said Americans can learn about democracy from Pakistanis
TNITC masadi
TNITC masadi
#11 Posted by pavocavalry on March 30, 2009 11:24:00 am
mr masadai
pakistan is a pygmy ,the USA is after China and Russia.Pakistan is merely a steping stone and this is what I have stated in last paragraph.
the USA could not destroy Russia in the Afghan war.the real struggle is between the atlantic rim nations led by USA and the contender central mainland Russia and China.
Mr Fuzair:--
1-Real Afghan training base was soviet which is now being replaced by USA/NATO .However at the intelligence level Russia is far stronger in army police and intelligence in afghanistan.
2-The RAW is as involved as ISI if one has to make a comparison.The Taliban were a Pakistani creation but now they have various variations and not all are in Pakistani control.
3-If the Pakistani state is exterminating a people at some stage they will turn to anyone,even the devil.If you study books of Bengalis in 1971 most say that they hated the Indians but had no choice but to get Indian support.
4-Afghan special forces are trained by US Army and Dyncorps an ex CIA security company.
5-The non Pashtuns look towards Russia , India and Iran because Pakistani state is perceived as pro Pashtun and Pro Talib in non Pashtuns of Afghanistan.
6-Fence is not politically acceptable as it would regularise Durand Line.Further fence would not be economically acceptable as it would disturb smuggling.
Agha Amin
pakistan is a pygmy ,the USA is after China and Russia.Pakistan is merely a steping stone and this is what I have stated in last paragraph.
the USA could not destroy Russia in the Afghan war.the real struggle is between the atlantic rim nations led by USA and the contender central mainland Russia and China.
Mr Fuzair:--
1-Real Afghan training base was soviet which is now being replaced by USA/NATO .However at the intelligence level Russia is far stronger in army police and intelligence in afghanistan.
2-The RAW is as involved as ISI if one has to make a comparison.The Taliban were a Pakistani creation but now they have various variations and not all are in Pakistani control.
3-If the Pakistani state is exterminating a people at some stage they will turn to anyone,even the devil.If you study books of Bengalis in 1971 most say that they hated the Indians but had no choice but to get Indian support.
4-Afghan special forces are trained by US Army and Dyncorps an ex CIA security company.
5-The non Pashtuns look towards Russia , India and Iran because Pakistani state is perceived as pro Pashtun and Pro Talib in non Pashtuns of Afghanistan.
6-Fence is not politically acceptable as it would regularise Durand Line.Further fence would not be economically acceptable as it would disturb smuggling.
Agha Amin
#12 Posted by masadi on March 30, 2009 11:47:40 am
Amin sahib,
The US is not conducting wars for instrumental reasons in the post WW2 world, its reasons are structural and as far as that goes, Pakistan is just the bridge that leads to Iran. China and Russia are not involved in its immediate plans.
TNITC masadi
The US is not conducting wars for instrumental reasons in the post WW2 world, its reasons are structural and as far as that goes, Pakistan is just the bridge that leads to Iran. China and Russia are not involved in its immediate plans.
TNITC masadi
#13 Posted by pavocavalry on March 30, 2009 11:48:42 am
the US policy is made at various levels,the PENTAGON,CIA,STATE DEPARTMENT,while Obama may be an idealist , he is perceived as an outsider.
the State Department,Pentagon and CIA see Pakistani army and ISI as a useful subsidiary vassal but prefer a denuclearised pakistan with a good punjabi potohari khattak yusufzai mercenary army which has traditionally been a good and relatively cheap mercenary force.
at the covert level the USA visualises afghanistan pakistan india as future bases for supporting a war against china and russia in central asia tibet and singkiang
iran sees itself as successor of persian empire and regards other races as inferior racially and religiously.
russia is strongly placed in afghanistan in the whole expanse.khalqi pashtuns and the parchamis who have penetrated and intermixed as northern alliance and hekmatyar or taliban pashtuns.the common ethos is hatred of USA.even the real founder of taliban Mullah Borjan allegedly assasinated by pakistani intelligence was a leftist khalqi officer initially.
many memories unite these elements:--
1-desire to avenge frrom USA the 1978-92 dirty war.
2-hatred against a particular pakistani punjabi establishment for destroying afghanistan in 1978-92 for US dollars.
its a complicated affair.
Agha Amin
the State Department,Pentagon and CIA see Pakistani army and ISI as a useful subsidiary vassal but prefer a denuclearised pakistan with a good punjabi potohari khattak yusufzai mercenary army which has traditionally been a good and relatively cheap mercenary force.
at the covert level the USA visualises afghanistan pakistan india as future bases for supporting a war against china and russia in central asia tibet and singkiang
iran sees itself as successor of persian empire and regards other races as inferior racially and religiously.
russia is strongly placed in afghanistan in the whole expanse.khalqi pashtuns and the parchamis who have penetrated and intermixed as northern alliance and hekmatyar or taliban pashtuns.the common ethos is hatred of USA.even the real founder of taliban Mullah Borjan allegedly assasinated by pakistani intelligence was a leftist khalqi officer initially.
many memories unite these elements:--
1-desire to avenge frrom USA the 1978-92 dirty war.
2-hatred against a particular pakistani punjabi establishment for destroying afghanistan in 1978-92 for US dollars.
its a complicated affair.
Agha Amin
#14 Posted by pavocavalry on March 30, 2009 11:51:32 am
this is a matter of opinion .i have held since october 2001 that the real targets are Russia and China.
Iran may collapse sooner than later . the mullahs are not as strong as they were 10 years ago. but it is debatable how soon or how late.
anyhow sir all these are speculations.
Agha Amin
Iran may collapse sooner than later . the mullahs are not as strong as they were 10 years ago. but it is debatable how soon or how late.
anyhow sir all these are speculations.
Agha Amin
#15 Posted by tahir on March 30, 2009 12:04:56 pm
Obama is welcome to target my neighbour's dog's reproductive organ as the 'high-profile target'; the animal barks too much at night.
Damn the Am-policies.....
Damn the Am-policies.....
#16 Posted by tahir on March 30, 2009 12:06:46 pm
May the American police-stations suffer the same fate as that of Iraqi and now Pakistani ones.
The destructive pattern remains most identifiable!
The destructive pattern remains most identifiable!
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