Lashes to lashes, dust to dust

#231 Adam Khan
NWFP crying out for justice and finally taking a stand in Swat,
What stand has the NWFP taken in Swat?

Adam Khan
The stand clearly is against the establishment. Unfortunately, ANP lacked the political will to support the people and left the field open for the Islamist. The Islamists control of Swat in NWFP is deplorable but when the legitimate political parties decide to cut the deals instead of going to the people, someone else fills the vacuum. Right now the Islamist have filled the vacuum but not for long. The struggle to take the initiative back from the Islamist has begun but it will take its time before people are able to overcome the lax and opportunistic approach of ANP that practically threw the people to the wolves.

Re: # 257

Arjun:

"...masadi...santayana said those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

OTOH, those who are overly obsessed with history are guaranteed to have no future..."

Very beautifully put.

What do you have to say Masadi sahib?

Re: # 254

Arjun:

I do not know much about Islam.

My issue is the hypocracy of Masadi, the state of mind that it reflects. This state of mind is present in all belief systems.

Masadi:

There is a saying "water over ducks feather". Stay with your intellectual honesty.

You are on record here to acknowledge presence of elite in Islamic society, but you refused to denounce it as much as you do in among the others. Why don't you denounce that too, or it truly is my baloney is not baloney?

When will you produce proof positive evidence of God that you claim you have?

Bring your ego in line with your abilities and get over it.

masadi...santayana said those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

OTOH, those who are overly obsessed with history are guaranteed to have no future...

#255 Posted by masadi on April 11, 2009 4:22:14 pm

why don't you post it as an ilog and see how many hits you get...after all, the awesome power of your writing should help you get over little hindrances like chowk staff refusing to post your article the front page..

fwiw..as much as i disagree with you, I think your article will be much better than most of the crap on fp that can be summarized as "woe is pakiland..we're innocent victims...jihadis(who we had absolutely no hand in creating) are going to flog us..bad india..bad US.."

Anil my article was not written for those lost in history or those that are functionally illiterate. Since you belong to both categories please don't bother reading that article when/if it gets published.

TNITC masadi

#252 Posted by anil on April 11, 2009 4:17:23 pm

now he'll accuse you of islam bashing...anything less than obsequious characterization of islam is islam-bashing..

#250 Posted by masadi on April 11, 2009 3:45:42 pm

I'm not into that kind of thing..anywhoo...i'm busy writing an iphone app for a government client in my spare time....i don't get much time to read..I do read james bamford...he usually releases a book every 2-3 years...

Re: # 244

Masadi Mian:

"Who are the Power Elite?"

I hope you had the honesty and integrity to include "the power elite" in Islam too. This will most certainly include everyone from Muhammad down. Can you be that courageous, I doubt it.

To you, your baloney (power elite) is not baloney (power elite). Isn't that bigotry then what it is?

Bulleya:

“......the day that happens, it will become nearly impossible for the usa to get any pakistani leader to do its bidding in Afghanistan.....�

Why do you think it is so important for America to do its bidding in Afghanistan? America’s shorter term interest in Afghanistan was to get OBL and destroy AQ, so that it cannot attack America and western interests. Now, its short term interest is to get itself out of there. It will try doing so either by investing in Pakistan or investing to develop a chaotic buffer and maintaining it. A healthy economy and democratic government in Pakistan is the best bet. Free and fair elections have proven that however defective it may, just as in case of India, democratic government in Pakistan can never be in Islamic Terror business.

It is not “aid� of yesteryears, but investments is how Pakistan needs to look, after all it is now talking of $30 billion Marshall Plan for it. Therefore, “I don’t think anyone in Pakistan is interested in “aid�� is an honest statement. Need transcends, even Masadi Mian needs it. For a long time, this has been the case with us humans. I suppose when the first currency was put, and first surplus was generated. If you are saying that Mehsud is not attacked by America, and if I understood your statement correctly, then I would say that even he needs “aid. This clearly is the example for I have been saying that American money will go in more hands than just the military or civilian government, because someone has to create chaotic buffer also.

If America has huge problems in Afghanistan, then don’t you think you are over analyzing it as a Pakistan? Need for troops is shorter term, much as need to be present in there is short term. What replaces it is more important. If the state of affairs in Pakistan remains as it is then exit would be through chaotic buffer.

“It was able to get Zardari in driver seat�, is systemic weakness in Pakistan that I am pointing. Earlier “it was able to get a general installed�, who knows tomorrow, it = Taliban. Then it would said that “it was able to install Mehsud�. Pakistan is unable to act, or respond according to the will of its people. Why, if it is not for the systemic problem that makes it depressed and frustrated?

Arjun: the other one they stock is "White Collar"- both penned over 50 years back but still extremely relevant. Buy them both, give chowk a rest and do some reading this summer.

TNITC masadi

Bulleya:

“…if Pakistan continues to cling onto the Americans, i think it is doomed......Taliban will take over much of it......if it cuts ties, it may have major macro-economic problems in the short term (assuming china does not bail it out), but its long term outlook will be much better.......�

Even the above statement has “blame outsideness�, as if Pakistan is outside and “Taliban (another outsider) will take over…� Whether Pakistani Army takes over, it is from the within; if Taliban takes over, it is from the within; or if Americans are there, it too has support from within (I know you would not like this last part). If LeT is there it is also from within, whatever the reasons or explanations. Even reasons and explanations are Pakistani. It is Pakistan that is making it possible, whether there is some grass root level support, or mid level support, or at top level support.

Therefore, the blame is to outsider, and then you say that “assuming china does not bail out�. This bailout is outsider too. This is my core point; it is “outsider� whichever way you look at it. But why? About time, Pakistan owns its destiny. Vietnam was more devastated after the war, America deliberately stayed out, Europeans stayed out, and Chinese fought a war with Vietnam. Look where Vietnam is is today, all on its own.

#245 Posted by masadi on April 11, 2009 2:16:04 pm

masadi..i was at barnes and noble and saw mills' "the power elite" on a shelf somewhere...there was some other book by mills..can't recall the name..

Bulleya:

It is everybody's fault but yours. It is USA/India's fault that your country chose to fight the Afghan war. It is India's fault that your country propped up and supported the Taliban. It is my fault that the Palestinian's rejected the original UN Palestine Partition Plan. It is my fault that you suffer from dementia.

Get the drift?