Lashes to lashes, dust to dust

or whether...

I have submitted an article to chowk staff titled "Who are the Power Elite?"

If they censor it they will again rob you of information that is not only very relevant to understanding your world, it is your right to access such info. Let us see how much concern they have for members of whether they are going to spit in your face like they have in the past.

TNITC masadi

Chowk staff removed my posts that were a slam dunk victory over the BS of this article, they were no doubt pressured by Shandana who when defeated resorts to censorship, as does YLH and the rest of the thugs that roam these streets...

TNITC masadi

#241 Posted by bulleya on April 11, 2009 12:32:29 pm


......if pakistan stops usa's logistics and stops patrolling the border, i think the game is over for the usa.


you've told us an IT company can't survive without paki management skills...why don't you pakis organize a mass boycott of the IT industry..without your managerial talent, the whole US IT industry will collapse...

that should teach the US a lesson...

anil #: "With a determination of 1,000 years of eating grass. The above is not impossible, and never was. There is something systemic that now hated Americans reached inside and into neighbors. Please think about it."

regarding your point on there being systemic about americans reaching into pakistan, and getting what they want.......you are correct....the reason is lack of an established democracy in the country.....

.....i don't know of any country in the world, where another country is so hated, i.e. usa......yet the later's leadership has so much influence in the first country.....if there was a clear vote on cutting ties with the usa, today, i can make a bet it would be well over 90% in favor........

if pakistan continues to cling onto the americans, i think it is doomed......taliban will take over much of it......if it cuts ties, it may have major macro-economic problems in the short term (assuming china does not bail it out), but its long term outlook will be much better.......

there is huge amounts of public pressure on the govt. to cut ties with the usa.......let's see what happens, and whether this public pressure turns into a wave, like that for the judiciary.....

....having said that, i think the afghan war may be much more complicated than imagined......there is talk of why the usa strikes everywhere, but rarely in waziristan - the hq of taliban.......and never targets baitullah mehsud.....

anil #: "America has already committed $8 or $9 billion, why not show performance with it and then go for more, if necessary."

...i don't think anyone in pakistan is interested in the aid......this is why the usa is quite apprehensive of true democracy taking root in pakistan......the day that happens, it will become nearly impossible for the usa to get any pakistani leader to do its bidding in afghanistan.....

......usa faces a huge problem in afghanistan....it has lost in iraq, and is about to lose in afghanistan......hillary clinton has offered talks to taliban which mullah umar has rejected!!......imagine.......

......the usa, desparately, needs troops in afghanistan.....it is unwilling to stop anyone from afghanistan crossing into pakistan.....even though as the occuppier of afghanistan, it has the responsibility of contorlling the borders......people crossing from afghanistan into pakistan have caused large problems for pakistan.......

......the usa was able to control musharraf and get him to do the dirty work on the afghanistan border......this has caused heavy damage to the pakistan society; much like being a usa ally in the first afghan war.....

.....it was able to get zardari in the driver's seat as well......and he was ready to do the us bidding also.....however, he is also out now.......there is, really, no one else left who can do the usa's bidding......

......if pakistan stops usa's logistics and stops patrolling the border, i think the game is over for the usa......in afghanistan......no other country is going to keep their troops there......there are only two countries fighting in this war......usa and pakistan.......with pakistan losing most of the troops.....

.....the general consensus amongst pakistanis, overwhelmingly, is that the usa has no intention to help pakistan.....in surveys it is considered a bigger threat than india......it is, now, quite hated in pakistan and afghanistan......

.....the public pressure is mounting on the current ppp govt. to cut ties with the usa......as this alliance is considered the cause of the suicide bombings and rise of taliban in pakistan......there were no taliban or suicide bombings prior to this afghan war in pakistan......

......the aid you have mentioned never reaches the common person......so he is least bothered.....pakistan loses out much more due to its alliance with the usa........if the resultant violence subsides, after cutting ties with the usa, arabs and china will invest much more than any usa aid.....

...the govt., of course, and the army, want the aid, as it benefits them the most.....however, now it will become more and more difficult for them to stand against public pressure.......

......unfortunately, pakistan's macro economic situation is such that it is stuck with loans to stablize its economy......however, if it is able to transition from dumping the usa and moving towards other options, while simultaneously keeping its macro economic situation stable, it should be fine.....perhaps china can assist in the short term.....

i think most americans are in a state of denial.....about afghanistan and iraq and the impact it has had on their nation.....as well as how unpopular they are in this region......even us embassy staff here are clueless.....

........there will be a wave of anti-usa sentiment in the near future......let's see what impact it has on the ppp govt.....

as i said earlier, pakistanis want the usa out and the taliban out....they want them to fight their battles in afghanistan.......not in pakistan.....

the public has generally been correct, in pakistan.....it didn't want pakistan to join the usa in the first afghan war, and train the jihadis.....and it didn't want pakistan to join the usa in the second afghan war and bomb the jihadis......

........pakistan is an interesting test case.....it is a muslim country, with a huge population and nuclear deterence and good human resource base, which is moving towards genuine democracy.....if it reaches it (before it self-destructs), it will be a big headache for the usa.....as the people are extremely anti-usa from all ranges of the spectrum......

iran is another muslim country, moving in the same direction......though no nuclear weapon, but a more stable system with oil......

if both these countries become established democracies, then i think the usa's strategy in the region will have to change......which is why i think this whole talk of promoting democracy is an eyewash......having a democratic region would go against us interests as the populations are very anti-usa in pakistan, iran and afghanistan.....

Re: # 238

Bulleya:

"......pakistanis, simply want americans to leave them alone......"

With a determination of 1,000 years of eating grass. The above is not impossible, and never was. There is something systemic that now hated Americans reached inside and into neighbors. Please think about it.

Bulleya:

If outsiders are to be blamed, then why insiders don't let them in. After all a famous Pakistan said they would eat grass for 1,000 years if need be to get bomb. What more of the resolve in needed. With that determination, even Bhagwan or Jesus cannot enter or remain.

If there was no love for this tumor then there was no need for strategic depth, and develop "civilian precursors" to inflict 1,000 cuts etc; and self convince a need for it. Did you not shared a roadmap here, where once things are put in order, this tumor would be unleashed in Kashmir again?

Would you disagree that all the talent and resources could have been deployed to become Korea of middle east?

Afterall, even according to you, there was a brief Ayub period of economic success. Can you imagine if that had continued, what Pakistan would be like today?

Is it not possible for a terminally ill patient to fall in love with the cancerous tumor to see prominent surgeon and beautiful nurses? Please do not be so certain in depression and frustration response can be often unusual.

Is this disease that Pakistan has not systemic?

anil #: "Somehow I think, Pakistan enjoys this dramabaazi of now Pakistani Tabilan, almost as if, the cancer patient has fallen in love with his tumor, because it gets attention of the finest surgeon on the block."

....quite a sickening comment.....americans are getting sicker by the day......including expat americans.....

it is quite legitimate for pakistanis to blame usa for the afghan problem.....both during first and second afghan war......pakistanis, simply want americans to leave them alone......

tahmed:

"(the first thing hindus - even educated ones like Dost Mittar - do when a muslim tries to say what you said above is to pick certain selected verses from the Quran as "proof"."

I rarely quote from the Quran; in any case any quotation from any book has to be selective, the important thing is that the quotation should not be out of the context or misleading.

#226 Posted by tahmed32

" i dont doubt it. After all, you were Made in India and cant help being communal"

Let us have it straight. Communalism started in India when islam raised its head in India. The Government and the politicians of India by playing votebank politics blindly supported the policy of appeasing the muslims, without realising that this creed would kill its own father to access the throne.

RSS, vhp etc came into existence only to balance this anomaly.

it does not enters into tahmed's head that the so called crimes against females in India does not have the sanction of religion nor does the government supports it whereas in muslim countries, all the crimes against women are committed in the name of that black book.

In this context, the 'peace proposal' of tahmed in #224 is ridiculous and naive

Re: # 221

Hasho:

It is not about “mad or outraged population�. It is about that Pakistan has been pregnant with it for so long and not yet delivered it. It is the depression and frustration of that of the couple who have been at it for so long but not able to deliver it. This inability is systemic and that is what prevents delivery from this pregnancy. It is systemic because Pakistan Army or civilian leaders are not outsiders. Due to the systemic issues, this blame game to blame outsiders has gone on for too long that Pakistani awam (pregnant couple) are unable to see the systemic nature of the problem. This is almost as predictable as a scripted dialog in a C grade bollywood movie. No one comes to help out of goodness of the heart alone, really no one. So why would someone accept first and abuse later. This is a behavioral issue, symptomatic and not the diagnosis of the disease and root causes of the disease. The disease is depression and frustration, and root causes are not even known. No one probably cares to know.

Now, the next hawai qila is $30 billion Marshall Plan. It is beyond my belief at least, does Pakistan now want to put Taliban gun to its temple, and say $30 billion Marshall Plan or shoot itself. America has already committed $8 or $9 billion, why not show performance with it and then go for more, if necessary. Somehow I think, Pakistan enjoys this dramabaazi of now Pakistani Tabilan, almost as if, the cancer patient has fallen in love with his tumor, because it gets attention of the finest surgeon on the block.

Adam, Tahmed, BJ,
I have to go but will come back and respond to all the posts.

Re: # 232

No, your blood-drinking habits (if any) or the "merit" of arguments (again, if any) are not the issue. I redflagged those posts of yours which I thought were in bad taste.

bjkumar #229 great job, kumar sahib. a red flag is not an argument though. what exactly do you disagree with?? (excuse me if i dont respond right away, but i have to go and drink some blood which as you know we muslims need as an essential part of our diet).

Hasho:

NWFP crying out for justice and finally taking a stand in Swat,

What stand has the NWFP taken in Swat?