Islamabad Nagging

Re: # 119 Bulleya

"..the saving grace of pakistan will be or can be if this average pakistani has a third outleft from where he/she can come up.."

OR, IF GEN KAYANI discharges his professional responsibility/duty as COAS and meets this threat head on as recommended by the Indian Army COL in the open letter to him.

BUT, he won't.

The fact that the fixed frequency, fixed location and fixed tiem FM transmitter in Swat could not be put out by the Pak Army Signal Corps indicates that the Army is supportive of the Taliban agenda.

Bulleya, you are correct about urstruly being in Michigan, the tales of him returning to Pakistan are BS. You are incorrect however about the average Pakistani not having internet access. These ideas filter through to the average Pakistani through newspapers and the media that has internet access. As far as voice goes the average American doesn't have much of a voice let alone the average Pakistani. On the other hand how you have tapped into what the average Pakistani wants remains a mystery, care to elaborate?

TNITC masadi

the following interaction explains why the taliban may succeed and why they may fail:

"Urstruly#: you are not verily fukked yet. abhi poora mohalla jab tumhari cheekhain sunnay ga tou tab pata challay ga ke you are being verily fukked. It is just a matter of time now."


"Hamidm mian #: ..... the rise of the taliban has nothing to do with their ability to win elections..... they will come to power because the unwashed washes are scared to stand up to them not only because they fear losing their lives"

...two expat americans fighting their pakistani wars from the comforts of the usa.......the reason the taliban are succeeding is because those who want to fight them are too scared, and have run off to michigan.......and are urging others to fight them......

......the reason the taliban may fail is because those who support them, don't want to live in a country ruled by them, and have migrated to the usa also (and not to afghanistan).......

........the taliban and the urban westernised elite that opposes them have a great deal of hypocrisy in them......both will fall, in the long term.......just depends who falls first and is fallen by whom.......

......the average pakistani (none of whom have internet access and are not on chowk) does not support either of them......the saving grace of pakistan will be or can be if this average pakistani has a third outleft from where he/she can come up........

the following interaction explains why the taliban may succeed and why they may fail:

"Urstruly#: you are not verily fukked yet. abhi poora mohalla jab tumhari cheekhain sunnay ga tou tab pata challay ga ke you are being verily fukked. It is just a matter of time now."


"Hamidm mian #: ..... the rise of the taliban has nothing to do with their ability to win elections..... they will come to power because the unwashed washes are scared to stand up to them not only because they fear losing their lives"

...two expat americans fighting their pakistani wars from the comforts of the usa.......the reason the taliban are succeeding is because those who want to fight them are too scared, and have run off to michigan.......and are urging others to fight them......

......the reason the taliban may fail is because those who support them, don't want to live in a country ruled by them, and have migrated to the usa also (and not to afghanistan).......

........the taliban and the urban westernised elite that opposes them have a great deal of hypocrisy in them......both will fall, in the long term.......just depends who falls first and is fallen by whom.......

......the average pakistani (none of whom have internet access and are not on chowk) does not support either of them......the saving grace of pakistan will be or can be if this average pakistani has a third outleft from where he/she can come up........

the following interaction explains why the taliban may succeed and why they may fail:

"Urstruly#: you are not verily fukked yet. abhi poora mohalla jab tumhari cheekhain sunnay ga tou tab pata challay ga ke you are being verily fukked. It is just a matter of time now."


"Hamidm mian #: ..... the rise of the taliban has nothing to do with their ability to win elections..... they will come to power because the unwashed washes are scared to stand up to them not only because they fear losing their lives"

...two expat americans fighting their pakistani wars from the comforts of the usa.......the reason the taliban are succeeding is because those who want to fight them are too scared, and have run off to michigan.......and are urging others to fight them......

......the reason the taliban may fail is because those who support them, don't want to live in a country ruled by them, and have migrated to the usa also (and not to afghanistan).......

........the taliban and the urban westernised elite that opposes them have a great deal of hypocrisy in them......both will fall, in the long term.......just depends who falls first and is fallen by whom.......

......the average pakistani (none of whom have internet access and are not on chowk) does not support either of them......the saving grace of pakistan will be or can be if this average pakistani has a third outleft from where he/she can come up........

the following interaction explains why the taliban may succeed and why they may fail:

"Urstruly#: you are not verily fukked yet. abhi poora mohalla jab tumhari cheekhain sunnay ga tou tab pata challay ga ke you are being verily fukked. It is just a matter of time now."


"Hamidm mian #: ..... the rise of the taliban has nothing to do with their ability to win elections..... they will come to power because the unwashed washes are scared to stand up to them not only because they fear losing their lives"

...two expat americans fighting their pakistani wars from the comforts of the usa.......the reason the taliban are succeeding is because those who want to fight them are too scared, and have run off to michigan.......and are urging others to fight them......

......the reason the taliban may fail is because those who support them, don't want to live in a country ruled by them, and have migrated to the usa also (and not to afghanistan).......

........the taliban and the urban westernised elite that opposes them have a great deal of hypocrisy in them......both will fall, in the long term.......just depends who falls first and is fallen by whom.......

......the average pakistani (none of whom have internet access and are not on chowk) does not support either of them......the saving grace of pakistan will be or can be if this average pakistani has a third outleft from where he/she can come up........

DM (#110), thanks for saving the day … for a moment it felt like I was living a bad dream (I think hamidm got it, but perhaps others didn’t.)

+++

nkg (#103), majority of pakis believe in elections … in that they believe that elections are held periodically, one gets to goof off at work that day, and if lucky, one may even get a free pencil. However, I am not sure if they think elections are necessarily going to make any damn difference … but those are minor details.

Overall, they treat elections as a mujra of sorts … and based on what I have seen so far, I happen to agree. But don’t tell tahmed I said this … he’s already very upset with me …

+++

hamidm, shankar, I agree … but the voice of god keeps pointing to the elections (and how ahmadis are violating the central message of Quran – [rolling my eyes]). And this is from the self proclaimed rational muslim … no wonder ummah is going to the dogs …

+++

SR (#84), ok, seriously this time: excellent write-up … written with heartfelt convictions and corroborated with common sense observations … all from the bowels of hell …

Jihadi fanaticism as an ugly pyramid of sorts: On the top is a small number of lal masjid types – hateful, violent, uncompromising. These in turn are supported by an expanding lower level of those who are less hateful, but nevertheless believe that Islamic jihad is incumbent … all the way to the base of the pyramid … to common abdul … who is getting screwed so badly that he is willing to try anything different …

… far away from this pyramid, tahmed is filling out the election ballot at a polling station … reminding himself that democracy is taking hold and good things are about to happen. And this is just another example of how google can be a very dangerous thing ...

Chowk staff:

With all my differences with Masadi, I want to state that this essay deserves more respect than deleting it.

Power Elite is something that transcends all systems, religious to religious less. Power Elite is as basic as laws of society. People have views and so does Masadi. I fail to see why his essay should be deleted.

I also state that Chowk should be in a position to separate ideas from abuses. Censor abuses not ideas. Blank out abusive words, I am certain you have ability to do so.

Anil

Pew writes from the Indian colonel "Gen Niazi surrendered in Dhaka to a professional army that had outnumbered and outfought him. No Pakistani has been able to get over that humiliation..."

How did the dimwit colonel (most military officers are downright dimwitted bas*****) make this translation from a dictatorial military to "no Pakistani has been..." Pakistanis were not interested in the Pakistan military shenanigans what kept them 'interested' was the Pakistan Army wanting to make itself relevant to Pakistan and the lives of its people and the Indian Army helped them do that. They might claim to be arch foes but they are closer to each other than you might think, much like the US and the Taliban, where another group of irrelevant swines is kept relevant because it fulfills the agenda of the bigger thugs....As far as jamming radio stations goes, isn't that called censorship?, so it is damned if you do and damned if you don't! And let us talk about the condition of women in India, the aborted female fetuses that have resulted in an abnormal sex ratio- unique in the world, before we even begin talking about the flogging in Swat.....morons

TNITC masadi

nemesis3: there are two kinds of posters - those who can carry on a civilized, rational discussion. and those who cannot. dont blame me if indians are disproportionately represented by the latter.

#101 Posted by tahmed32

Was he discussing India? The pig only looks for shit and so do you. Can't you be a bit serious now and start worrying about your internal affairs, for a change?

If you have an answer to #100, come out with it. Just don't behave like another musla who begins to scamper around when faced with an indefensible situation.

Remember, your this attitude of India baiting has brought you to this pass

shankar, hamidm, nkg:

You guys missed the sarcasm in Sattar's post#85. Read what he has in parenthesis.

SR #105
Here is the letter to GEN KAYANI published in The News:


Open Letter To General Kayani From Indian colonel


View from the other side Col (retd.) Harish Puri

Dear Gen Kayani,

Sir, let me begin by recounting that old army quip that did the rounds in the immediate aftermath of World war II: To guarantee victory, an army should ideally have German generals, British officers, Indian soldiers, American equipment and Italian enemies.

A Pakistani soldier that I met in Iraq in 2004 lamented the fact that the Pakistani soldier in Kargil had been badly let down firstly by Nawaz Sharif and then by the Pakistani officers' cadre. Pakistani soldiers led by Indian officers, , he believed, would be the most fearsome combination possible. Pakistani officers, he went on to say, were more into real estate, defence housing colonies and the like.

As I look at two photographs of surrender that lie before me, I can't help recalling his words. The first is the celebrated event at Dhaka on Dec 16, 1971, which now adorns most Army messes in Delhi and Calcutta. The second, sir, is the video of a teenage girl being flogged by the Taliban in Swat -- not far, I am sure, from one of your Army check posts.

The surrender by any Army is always a sad and humiliating event. Gen Niazi surrendered in Dhaka to a professional army that had outnumbered and outfought him. No Pakistani has been able to get over that humiliation, and 16th December is remembered as a black day by the Pakistani Army and the Pakistani state. But battles are won and lost – armies know this, and having learnt their lessons, they move on.

But much more sadly, the video of the teenager being flogged represents an even more abject surrender by the Pakistani Army. The surrender in 1971, though humiliating, was not disgraceful. This time around, sir, what happened on your watch was something no Army commander should have to live through. The girl could have been your own daughter, or mine.

I have always maintained that the Pakistani Army, like its Indian counterpart, is a thoroughly professional outfit. It has fought valiantly in the three wars against India, and also accredited itself well in its UN missions abroad. It is, therefore, by no means a pushover. The instance of an Infantry unit, led by a lieutenant colonel, meekly laying down arms before 20-odd militants should have been an aberration. But this capitulation in Swat, that too so soon after your own visit to the area, is an assault on the sensibilities of any soldier. What did you tell your soldiers? What great inspirational speech did you make that made your troops back off without a murmur? Sir, I have fought insurgency in Kashmir as well as the North-East, but despite the occasional losses suffered (as is bound to be the case in counter-insurgency operations), such total surrender is unthinkable.

I have been a signaller, and it beats me how my counterparts in your Signal Corps could not locate or even jam a normal FM radio station broadcasting on a fixed frequency at fixed timings. Is there more than meets the eye?

I am told that it is difficult for your troops to "fight their own people." But you never had that problem in East Pakistan in 1971, where the atrocities committed by your own troops are well documented in the Hamoodur Rahman Commission Report. Or is it that the Bengalis were never considered "your own" people, influenced as they were by the Hindus across the border? Or is that your troops are terrified by the ruthless barbarians of the Taliban?

Sir, it is imperative that we recognise our enemy without any delay. I use the word "our" advisedly – for the Taliban threat is not far from India's borders. And the only force that can stop them from dragging Pakistan back into the Stone Age is the force that you command. In this historic moment, providence has placed a tremendous responsibility in your hands. Indeed, the fate of your nation, the future of humankind in the subcontinent rests with you.

It doesn't matter if it is "my war" or "your war" – it is a war that has to be won. A desperate Swati citizen's desperate lament says it all – "Please drop an atom bomb on us and put us out of our misery!" Do not fail him, sir.

But in the gloom and the ignominy, the average Pakistani citizen has shown us that there is hope yet. The lawyers, the media, have all refused to buckle even under direct threats. It took the Taliban no less than 32 bullets to still the voice of a brave journalist. Yes, there is hope – but why don't we hear the same language from you? Look to these brave hearts, sir – and maybe we shall see the tide turn. Our prayers are with you, and the hapless people of Swat.

The New York Times predicts that Pakistan will collapse in six months. Do you want to go down in history as the man who allowed that to happen?


The writer is a retired colonel of the Indian army who lives in Pune

Re: # 106
beduin32...
at least, you would have benefitted once...during 1971.... But how about putting money on capturing Kashmir through Jihad?

Re: # 102 The point I thought was obvious - that the problem is not just Musharraf (as you seem to think it is), but that every Pakistani leader since Jinnah down has chosen confrontation with India. Unless you correctly diagnose the problem, you wont be able to come up with a solution.

(Jinnah, as you know, used the tribals from FATA for the Kashmir invasion in'48 to gain plausible deniability. Musharraf and his successor have not ceased cultivating the Taliban. The Pakistan parliament or 'civil government' has simply ratified the arrangement in Swat with an overwhelming majority)

Regards #104 If I had a penny for every time an Indian has predicted the break up of Pakistan, I would be able to finance the entire US budget deficit.