If God is the Same then Why is God Different?

Masadi sahib:

"...If it stays at the animal level like 99% of Chowk members then it is no different than a baboon or a rock, a mere consumer and therefore morally underdeveloped...."


Good to know that you included yourself in it too, as there are really not 100 people who write or post at Chowk. Welcome Masadi sahib.

Re: # 40
Our universe is not the universe we would would expect if there is a "personal god". A personal God who is in love with his creation would not take around 10 billion years to produce the condition necessary for carbon based life. It should have been a universe full of life and very friendly as well. but what we find is a universe 99% filled with "lethal to life " radiation and universe in with 99% of the matter is used up in creating black holes ( a perfect black hole generator) not life bearing worlds. This is exactly the universe we should expect if there is no "personal God". Moreover we have no good reason to believe in a personal force as all the forces of nature that we know are impersonal.

I agree with Hegel, the conscious being (man/woman) links God to its creation but only if it uses its consciousness potentialities, realizing its 'species-being' through its creativity potential, realizing yourself through transforming nature. If it stays at the animal level like 99% of Chowk members then it is no different than a baboon or a rock, a mere consumer and therefore morally underdeveloped.

Nature necessitates God, no questions about that. The initial conditions that led to a particular type of universe evolving and the evolution of life on earth reveals conscious 'monkeying' with the constants, there is no way they could have happened by chance unless you have a infinite number of universes where all odds are tried- a conclusion that is a violation of occam's razor and scientifically speaking plain gibberish.

TNITC masadi

Saima
I am glad to find someone with a natural explanation. Religion came natural to humans, as an endeavor to understand and come to terms with the world around us. It was never meant to be a intellectual exercise, as it was all about social justice. Nobody doubted the existence of God because it self-evident. the problem was which God to go for. For the Jews Yewah turned out to be the better god as he led Moses out of the exile. Abraham's God was a friendly God , which would sometimes come down and wrestle with Him. We see a different nature of God with Yewah(moses' god) as he is quite remote. Allah was always a reality for Arabs. The problem was to accept Allah as the only God, so the existence of God, as such, was never a problem.There were no concept of " modern atheism" at the time of Prophet Mohammad. In old days whoever use to have different belief was considered a "non-believer" by others. The domain of religion is different from the domain of science, its about creating an just society. The problem occurs when one religion claims to be the only true religion. Either all of them are true or all of them are false. As for me , I think prophets were very sensitive people and wanted to create a just society.
It would be very time consuming at pointless to discuss the arguments "for or against the existence of God". I think the poor homo-sapiens is incapable of understanding it. I am more comfortable accepting the fact that humans have limited knowledge than to believe in a supernatural being, to fill that gap.

Saima:

The idea of God differs from region to region depending upon the inclination of the region's people. The Asian concept of God is very different from that of the Abrahmic God which is very different from the Indic God.

The Abrahmic God also differs somewhat from its various adherents: The God of New Testament is a kind entity which sent his son to earth to suffer and be crucified for the sake of his other children. The God of old testament is a very angry God; the Islamic Allah is in the same mould but he is also extremely jealous; he can't bear the thought of his children worshiping anyone else and is prepared to send him to eternal hell for so doing; he can be merciful and forgiving but only if you repent your earlier act of worshiping others. He is also very unjust; he seals some people's ears from receiving his message and then sends them to hell for listening to the message against which he had sealed their ears.

It is difficult to describe the Indic god or gods because they are all over the place. But most of the adjectives used for him - pita, kripalu, dayalu, sanghi, sahai, etc. are generally benign. But there is also the concept of the destructive Shiva who destroys the whole world with his Tandav dance; although he is also depicted as simpleton (bhola) who is the easiest to please and gives easy boons not only to good guys but also to the bad guys (rakshas) who pray to him.

In general, the above proves the saying that man created god and, in different regions and different periods, man has created gods in his own respective image.

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Re: # 34
is in response to regards #32

Re: # 34
is in response to regards #32

hank u very much for enlighetening my dark soul sir.I find words to poor to express the joy of Intellect that your post has brought to me.

ladies and gentlemen...have u noticed that one of the greatest intellectual discoveries in the history of ideas has just been witnessed in the interact #32 on this board??

Now be hopefull....Now the age old intellectual questions would get their answers. Now the dark human minds will see the light of Knowledge.#32 has solved the greatest mystry of human knowledge. Now nothing can stop man from conquering the forces of Nature.

Ilam ka ya charagh jo roushan huaa hai oos se jahliaat ka ikhtamaam ho ga.aur insaan fitrat kee quwaaton ko musakhar kernay ke liye uth khara ho ga.

Kiya tum insaan se maayoos ho? tau aayo #32 parh lo,aur jaan lo ke insaan kiya kuchh ker sakta hai.

aisay hee nabgha roazgaar hastioon ke aisay hee ilmi kaarnamon ke baray mein iqbal ne farmaya tha ke;

urooj-e- aadam-e khaaki se anjam sehmay jaatay hain.

#32 has provided the starting point in the devolopment of the latest paradigm and the methodology of the epistemological structre.it proves what man is capable of doing if he keeps pursuing the truth.

aayen...hum sab mil ke #32 ke ilaam ki azmat ke hazoor jhook jaain.

This is the historical moment...catch it.remeber it.you are lucky enough to tell ur future generations that u had witnessed this great intellectual discovery with ur own eyes.feel proud and privileged to be here.

subhannallah

testing

#25,#26,#27,#28,#30
Bla bla bla... of speculations, a hundred years old at least.

Philosohpy and world has moved on. Please update your logic

And also please spare us more...

Our Gods are not same. Indic and bedu gods has as much in common with each other as fire and water. We, as people, are not same either. You guys have so much noor about you that we can easily distingish between an Indian and Pakistani.

Re: # 28 khurram
Absolutly brilliant.You never disappoint me.I wish i had enough time to be on board.I have got only 30 minutes.more on it tomorrow.

anyways...welcome back..i would be glad if PM and masadi also join this debate tomorrow.It would bring back the golden memories of the past debates,among four of us.

"Personal God" is the God whom you love like your lover!

Your relationship with him at purely 'personal' level. He cares for you and takes care of your personal needs, he is the ultimate sobbing shoulder. He takes away your pains, he fulfils your desires. He does not demand anything from you. You just love him like you love your lover. And you cry when you find him/her removed for any reason. He also does not demand any loyalty from you- he just wants you to open yourself to him and communicate in pure love.

This is the "personal God" .

Read more about it in Narad's "Bhakti Sutra".

"God is a metaphor ......."

What is the reality behind the metaphpor that is being symbolized?

"a person’s concept of their highest self" is an inadequate description. One must also pay attention to the attributes of the metaphor - Transcendent, Infinite, Unconditional.

Re: # 25 in addition to that;

Sometimes later, i would discuss other issues and questions that u have raised in your article such as"If God is the Same then Why is God Different?" this kinda quetsion is the result of the misunderstood concept of the "oneoness" of God.Quran has never suggested this "oneness" in the mathmatical or analogicalsense.more on it tomorrow.