The Gentle Power of the Sufi Tradition

By the way, that descripion of dais as religio-poplitical propagandists is not mine. It is from "Medieval Islamic Civilization" By Josef W. Meri, Jere L Bacharach Routledge, 2005

But the concept of dais as evangelists to the cause of Imams who claimed all religious and political authority, in fact, a LOT more, as we shall see is well understood.

[In general, I will not worry about too many references at this point in time. I am just typing things in a draft form.]

Sorry, that wasn't a question, but an inviolable truth over which people fought, killed, and died.

In THAT person must reside all temporal and religious authority.

PART IV: NOW GOING REALLY TO THE BEGINNING!!

To begin at the begining would require us to go to the very earliest days of Islam. But, if you are a Muslim, did I warn you to skip this? This is the view of non-believer. If you insist on reading further, please do so at your own risk. We shall treat everyone as simply humans like you and I. You are forewarned.

The HISTORY is breath-takingly complex. But if you are a non-believer it can be mindnumbingly simple.

Interneicine fighting is continuous. It's always about the same thing, repeatedly. Who is the True inheritor of Muhammad? What did he REALLY preach? In THAT person must reside all temporal and religious authority? What he preached must the sole truth. Beyond any one individual or his group, warfare must, most often, be the deciding factor.

So first, there were Shias and Sunnis. For this case, we will focus on shias now. Given Murad Baig bhai's efforts, that may be more immediate for us o understand that anyway.

From among shias there were the Twelvers and Ismailies.

Then there were Nizaris.

Then Bohras, Khojas, Tayyabs etc etc.

Each of these folks, at all times, had their own Imams. Within the physical person of the Imam lay all political and religious power and wisdom and authority.

These Imams established their own Dawah - evangelism. Again, Is that a dirty word? Hopefully not. This evangelism was carried out by what were known as Dais - politico-religious propagandist whose job was to create commitment to and total belief in the Imam as Allah's Face on earth. More on this later.

It is these dais who are our heroes in this story.

One more thing that this is not. Think of these as rough notes that I am typing in real time. We wouldn't worry about exact dates and precise spelling of arabic, persian or whatever names etc. I want to tell you the story, as objectively as possible.

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PART III: (IN INDIA) BUDH SAID TO HINDUS- GO TO MAHOMET (and "what the heck is budh avatar?")

From Granth Budh Avtar written by an Islamili Evangelist (is that a bad word?)

1. The Ninth Divine Manifestation was Budh
He appeared in the guise of a Mughol

3. He was equipped with a knife, a dagger, a sword
A bow and an arrow ready to be used

7. (At the place) where the Pandaw are accomplishing their religious ceremonies (Hom Jagan)
The Brahmins, seated, are reciting the Vedas.

8. At that moment started the Kaljug, and the Duapurjug ended The angels as well as the faithful deserted this world.

9. Since the Kaljug would be containing too many sins
The angels preferred to leave.

25. (Of the noisy place) where the Brahmins were reciting the Vedas. Shri Budh came to the door

34. The Brahmins are reading our Vedas
And your ugliness will cause harm

35. Then Shri Budh said:
Let Me tell you what is a damned.

36. The Divine aspect has left the Brahmins
And has taken the form of Prophet Muhammad.

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Re: Budh Avatar of Ismaili Imam

What the heck is Budh Avatar? Is it a book?

by Above Average Bohra on Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:08 am
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3471

So, my friends, this is the story of India's partition, of the loss of millions of lives.

How it all REALLY began, how it came about, and to what end.

Next insallment in a little while.

DM, the differences between Torah and Quran are quite vast in details, imo.

Quranic commandments regarding who a Muslim may marry; what food is allowed; details of qibla, inheritance, fasting, zakat, and pilgrimage; claims of universality of teachings; requirement of writing down financial contracts; 4 witnesses as proof of wrongdoing; 100 lashes for adultery etc. … are at variance from what is found in Torah.

In principle one may wonder if distortions in Torah explain the difference between Torah and Quran. I think a more plausible explanation may be that Quranic teachings updated the details, while abrogating earlier laws.

Ok, friends, I am beginning to type the story in. Those of you who are interested in understading this complex tale of 600 years got to be patient a bit.

Indic people, read it. Hopefully, You will be as fascinated, as I had been. I will post it in parts as I type those parts down.

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Part 1: WHAT THIS IS NOT.

None of this IS addressed even remotely to any Muslim of any kind. Please ignore it completely.

It also does not answer what 'might have been'. Nor does it provide psychological evaluations of all actors involved at all times. So it is not to be confused with a moving picture of people's intentions.

Finally, it does not answer the question of 'every single' one, since it presents only one major case. It will not, for example satisfy those whose vision of Sufism contains solely of Kabir and Bulley Shah.

I will be describing things as they happened, as objectively as possible, and Indic peoples can reach their own conclusions.

PART II: JINNAH AND GOOD MUSLIMS

"It is extremely difficult to appreciate why our Hindu friends fail to understand the real nature of Islam and Hinduism. They are not religions in the strict sense of the word, but are, in fact, different and distinct social orders, and it is a dream that the Hindus and Muslims can ever evolve a common nationality, and this misconception of one Indian nation has troubles and will lead India to destruction if we fail to revise our notions in time. The Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs, litterateurs. They neither intermarry nor interdine together and, indeed, they belong to two different civilizations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions. Their aspect on life and of life are different. It is quite clear that Hindus and Mussalmans derive their inspiration from different sources of history. They have different epics, different heroes, and different episodes. Very often the hero of one is a foe of the other and, likewise, their victories and defeats overlap. To yoke together two such nations under a single state, one as a numerical minority and the other as a majority, must lead to growing discontent and final destruction of any fabric that may be so built for the government of such a state."

Muhammad Ali Jinnah, an Isamili Khoja, delivering All India Muslim League Presidential Address at Lahore, on March 22–23, 1940

"I know a girl who is a Khoja. I never heard of it, when she told me. Than she explained to me than they came from India......It;s seems that she is a good girl, and praticing islam in a good way."

ShiaSister at Shiachat, Forum A Lesson On Khojas

Althou im not a Khoja, but i have been really impressed by thier vast knowledge! Alhumd.
And trust me, we, Pakistanis, really respect Khojas alot.

LoveAhleBayt at Shiachat, Forum A Lesson On Khojas

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=234947709

Jang
What gets into collective memory and folklore is interesting in itself. For instance in Bengal (apparently) it's bad omen to have cotton balls blowing around in front of your house. This is traced back to strict punishment that the Brits handed out to weavers and fabric merchants there dealing with indigenous cotton fabric.

omp, the way it works is like this. if its a one-off event, it typically gets forgotten or lost in a sarkari gazette. if its a systematic shyte, it remains in a collective memory. one can offcourse have have systematically inculcated and preserved ideas of victimhood (or us-and-them ness) which are passed from one generation to the next and these are typically regarded as real history.

hopefully the violence against sikhs will fall in one of a kind and remain historically true but forgotten from collective memory..that is moving on.

om_prakash#382:

I thought I was quite clear. If no documentary evidence is available, then one may take into account people's collective memory, especially if that memory is consistent with contemporary reality. pmishra in his post#373 gave an example of contemporary reality in the case of Afghanistan.

sattar bhai

I have not the smallest problem if a Muslim believes so. That is a matter of faith, and there is always a whole range of possibilities beyond human understanding and proof (isn't that what faith is about? :)

My objective is (or will be) solely to present facts as objectively as possible to Hindus and Indic peoples alone so they can make their own judgements as to the process and goals of the people involved.

But give me a little time. I will get to it only later this afternoon. Putting it all together will require me to focus a bit. Thanks.

dost_mittar

According to your theory, IF there were no written accounts of '84 or Jallianwalah bagh, then contemporary reality would indicate such incidents did not happen.
Or do you mean something else?

sattar:

Couldn't one say that the differences between the Quran and Tohra/Bible are indeed the distortions that have crept into the earlier revelations?

om_prakash:

What Mehmood Ghazanavi did or the Hindu mobs did to Sikhs are part of documented history, but where there is no documentary evidence, one can fall back on people's collective memory or what you call cultural myths, at least when they are consistent with contemporary reality.

Kaal, here’s an absurd thought …

I understand that compressing centuries of history into a few paragraphs would inundate and bore the reader, esp. one who is not familiar with the topic (presumably a Hindu). Hence, reluctance on your part …

Could the same principle be extended to the sufis? That they were reluctant to share details of the Islamic framework of their teachings … as these details would inundate and overwhelm those not familiar with the topic?

Admittedly, a case can be made that a seeker (or target convert, as the case may be) has to know a little something beforehand, in order to make sense of more intricate concepts. I am wondering if this principle may have something to do with what you are suggesting …

I don’t know the details or any answers; I am only tossing around possibilities. This discussion may continue over time …

Om bhai, I understand and appreciate. I will be glad if other Hindus can find your views reasonable and non-fascist. Best.