Abdul Arif April 29, 2009
#5 Posted by rifai on April 30, 2009 11:01:52 pm
Assalam to every1
hey i'm a new member here at chowk & i'll be sorry if i m going to offend u by giving comments at this matter.so plz excuse me & be kind.
first of all u stated some Hadith along with their references. now i don't know that from where have u read them i mean from which book because in good books by good scholars they write & explain the background, situation, reason & its implementation today.so if u will check it u normally don't have a doubt.
secondly matter is that when we have a doubt about a hadith with an authentic reference, we normally questioned about its authenticity.actually the problem is that we don't really know the position of Hadith in Islam, its background,its compilation (which my dear fellow said that hadith were compiled after 200 years & the truth is that many companions e.g Hazrat Ali RA has a collection of hadith with them in the life of Hazrat Muhammad PBUH).further details & references will be provided if u r interested.
the role of women in a society which sorry to say we don't know & realize. a women is stated as a key to ultimate success (ticket to Jannah)as "a mother", a key to very peaceful & successful life in the world as "a wife", a blessing of Allah Talah for both the lives (this & the other) as "a daughter" but their is no status of women as a friend,girlfriend,prostitute, mistress,legal partner (lesbian),blah blah blah...i can provide u further details on the role & significance of women in Islam & its role in building a strong moral structure of a society & in its destruction. but keep in mind that the responsibility of a women is on four men (father,brother,husband & son)so man is also held responsible & will face the consequences if not fulfilling his responsibilities & duties.
i have to go but i can provide further details at this topic.
forgive me if i have offended u in any way
Allah Hafiz
hey i'm a new member here at chowk & i'll be sorry if i m going to offend u by giving comments at this matter.so plz excuse me & be kind.
first of all u stated some Hadith along with their references. now i don't know that from where have u read them i mean from which book because in good books by good scholars they write & explain the background, situation, reason & its implementation today.so if u will check it u normally don't have a doubt.
secondly matter is that when we have a doubt about a hadith with an authentic reference, we normally questioned about its authenticity.actually the problem is that we don't really know the position of Hadith in Islam, its background,its compilation (which my dear fellow said that hadith were compiled after 200 years & the truth is that many companions e.g Hazrat Ali RA has a collection of hadith with them in the life of Hazrat Muhammad PBUH).further details & references will be provided if u r interested.
the role of women in a society which sorry to say we don't know & realize. a women is stated as a key to ultimate success (ticket to Jannah)as "a mother", a key to very peaceful & successful life in the world as "a wife", a blessing of Allah Talah for both the lives (this & the other) as "a daughter" but their is no status of women as a friend,girlfriend,prostitute, mistress,legal partner (lesbian),blah blah blah...i can provide u further details on the role & significance of women in Islam & its role in building a strong moral structure of a society & in its destruction. but keep in mind that the responsibility of a women is on four men (father,brother,husband & son)so man is also held responsible & will face the consequences if not fulfilling his responsibilities & duties.
i have to go but i can provide further details at this topic.
forgive me if i have offended u in any way
Allah Hafiz
#4 Posted by rashid_s on April 30, 2009 9:52:22 pm
Arif Mian( a term of endearment)
Let us define “Religion�-- Set of spiritual dogmas pertaining to theology propagated by the Priests and Clergy of that particular religious “Church� (Church is a generic term).
Hence every Religion has its own Church.
Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists etc all have their own Churches, and Muslims (People of all sects and denominations) huddled under the cover-name of Islam, that is of Quranic teachings, have their various churches as well.
BUT ISLAM HAS NO CHURCH AND HENCE NO PRIESTHOOD (Quran Ref. 10-35,36)
It is obvious that you have quoted from various Hadis, the corpus of apocrypha from Central Asia compiled two centuries after Quran.
Any body with slight knowledge of Quran knows that what ever ‘God Said’ came down to the believers through ‘inspiration’ to Muhammad and ALL that is in his Risaalah called Quran, and that is why he is a Rasool.
Out side his Risaalah there is no room for any other hadis. “Then in which hadis will they then believe in ( Quran Ref 45-6, 7-185).
When talking about gender issues in Islam, one should quote the original and not the ‘Number Two’- a term one is given to understand, commonly used in the sub-continent for every thing “Naqlee�. But Quran is “the best Hadis for Believers it says. (Ref 39-23�).
Now the matter under discussion—MAN is afraid of the ‘disease in his own heart’ and for example, to restrain himself transgressing the accepted norms of civilized society has put the whole burden of his protection on the Female, so much so that the mere sight of her clad-body excites him and so he has covered her from tip to toe ( often in black or blue in Afghanistan). To enforce this he has taken the prop of “Religion� by giving the apocrypha you quoted, the holy status! In doing so he has forgotten the fact that God “….covers all evil doers as it were, with pieces from the depth of the darkness of night…� (Ref 10-27). So MAN in his haste has opted to punish the female in advance through hadis—traditions, customs, falsehood etc!!
Iqbal had said—dil soz say khaalee hai, nighaa paak nahin
Heart is insensitive, glances are shifty!
Phir iss may ajab kiya hai keh tu bebaak nahin
It is not strange then that you are not forthright and open!!
Let us define “Religion�-- Set of spiritual dogmas pertaining to theology propagated by the Priests and Clergy of that particular religious “Church� (Church is a generic term).
Hence every Religion has its own Church.
Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists etc all have their own Churches, and Muslims (People of all sects and denominations) huddled under the cover-name of Islam, that is of Quranic teachings, have their various churches as well.
BUT ISLAM HAS NO CHURCH AND HENCE NO PRIESTHOOD (Quran Ref. 10-35,36)
It is obvious that you have quoted from various Hadis, the corpus of apocrypha from Central Asia compiled two centuries after Quran.
Any body with slight knowledge of Quran knows that what ever ‘God Said’ came down to the believers through ‘inspiration’ to Muhammad and ALL that is in his Risaalah called Quran, and that is why he is a Rasool.
Out side his Risaalah there is no room for any other hadis. “Then in which hadis will they then believe in ( Quran Ref 45-6, 7-185).
When talking about gender issues in Islam, one should quote the original and not the ‘Number Two’- a term one is given to understand, commonly used in the sub-continent for every thing “Naqlee�. But Quran is “the best Hadis for Believers it says. (Ref 39-23�).
Now the matter under discussion—MAN is afraid of the ‘disease in his own heart’ and for example, to restrain himself transgressing the accepted norms of civilized society has put the whole burden of his protection on the Female, so much so that the mere sight of her clad-body excites him and so he has covered her from tip to toe ( often in black or blue in Afghanistan). To enforce this he has taken the prop of “Religion� by giving the apocrypha you quoted, the holy status! In doing so he has forgotten the fact that God “….covers all evil doers as it were, with pieces from the depth of the darkness of night…� (Ref 10-27). So MAN in his haste has opted to punish the female in advance through hadis—traditions, customs, falsehood etc!!
Iqbal had said—dil soz say khaalee hai, nighaa paak nahin
Heart is insensitive, glances are shifty!
Phir iss may ajab kiya hai keh tu bebaak nahin
It is not strange then that you are not forthright and open!!
#3 Posted by nb on April 30, 2009 8:29:02 pm
This is a highly complex topic, and not one that can be covered in one article.
It is obvious to all those but the most blinded that religion is one of the most effective fetters of women, and that much organised religion was only founded to keep women under control. The rest is just so much window dressing,
It is obvious to all those but the most blinded that religion is one of the most effective fetters of women, and that much organised religion was only founded to keep women under control. The rest is just so much window dressing,
#2 Posted by malikrashid on April 30, 2009 9:59:39 am
"Could it be that we are afraid of our own taboo lust and amorous desires?"
It is obvious that sex is one issue that humans have been trying to grapple with. The power of sexual lust subjugates the warrior. Civilization until now has not learnt to be ambivalent to it like they are with other anatomical necessities. Sexual morality of medieval times still prevail in the sense that satiating sexual desire could accompany guilt. We are still conditioned in the old ways.
It is obvious that sex is one issue that humans have been trying to grapple with. The power of sexual lust subjugates the warrior. Civilization until now has not learnt to be ambivalent to it like they are with other anatomical necessities. Sexual morality of medieval times still prevail in the sense that satiating sexual desire could accompany guilt. We are still conditioned in the old ways.
#1 Posted by KHYBER on April 30, 2009 8:52:09 am
A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." --Albert Einstein
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