Too Good To Be True

Was Abraham a Muslim?

Was God a cannibal or a mental guy to seek the sacrifice of humans?

If God is formless how can have a Will?

[The sheep that was sent by God symbolizes the ''reality'' which is beyond the illusion of appearance]

Why was He bloodthirsty in the first place?

Sacrifice of Prophet Abrahim(pbuh): A philosophical Exposition

Topic started by philosopher on Dec 10, 2008 9:02:34 am

Eid ul adha is the commemoration of the sacrifice of the Prophet Ibrahim(pbuh). This sacrifice shows a very significant dimension of religious epistemology. Not only does it explodes the idea of the 'ethical interpretation of religion' it also shows that religion does not hold an abstarct concept of ethics rather moralities have derivative value in the whole scheme of the religious philosophy. According to religious epistemology ,God is the source of all moralities. Moralities are there only to play a role of guidance for the person involved in the religious activity. According to the Quran, development of perception plays a very important role in intellectual and spirtual development of man. Religious moralities show you the path in the complexity and illusion of appearance to comprehend the reality beyond that. A religious person has always in veiw that commitment to those guidance and will of God. He reaches to the point where he starts comprehending the hitherto unreaveled meaning of the religious language which no lexicographical meaning could possibly reveal.

God put Abraham to a most difficult trial, the details of which are described in the Quran. ?O my Lord! Grant me (Abraham) a righteous (son)! So We gave him the good news of a boy ready to suffer and forbear. Then, when the the son reached the age to work with him, he said: O my son I see in a vision that I offer you in sacrifice: Now say what is your view!? (The son) said: ?O My father! Do as you are commanded: You will find me if God so wills, one practising patience and constancy! So when they had both submitted their wills (to God), and he had made him prostrate on his face (for sacrifice), We called out to him: O Abraham! You have already fulfilled the vision! Thus indeed do we reward those who do right. ?For this was obviously a trial and We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice: and We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times: (37:100-109).

This is the origin of the Islamic precept of sacrifice in fulfilment of Gods command provided in the Quran: ... to your Lord turn in prayer and sacrifice. (108:2).
The aim of sacrifice, like all other fundamentals of Islam, is to imbibe piety and self righteousness. It also promotes the spirit of sacrifice for a right cause. To explain its purpose, God says in the Quran. It is not their meat, nor their blood, that reaches God, It is their piety that reaches God: (22:37)

Prophet Ibrahim(pbuh) reamaind patient and commited despite his natural love for his son. It shows that real 'momin' has got to see everything with perspective of the will of God. There is a saying of the Holy prophet muhammed(pbuh) '' be ware of the wisdom of the man of faith because he sees with the light of Allah''. At that point you remain patient and commited to the guidance. The sheep that was sent by God symbolizes the ''reality'' which is beyond the illusion of appearance. This shows that the 'Truth' can be found only by following the commands of the God.

[Wrong! Sara was the numero uno wife and she is the one who GAVE Abraham her ‘hand maiden’ to sleep with so that he could have babies.]

Tehsin, It's like the photocopy calling the original fake. LOL!

hamidm #107 So abraham was going to kill his own son because he heard "voices". that is bizarre. maybe you would prefer hazrat Noh then...whose story AFTER the flood (at least per christian literature) is even more interesting than his adventures on the ark..

Re: # 106

bewakoof tehsin,

..... you should not believe everything you read in the koran and other worthless books ....... trust me, i know the inside story ...... next thing you will be telling me that abraham tried to kill ishaq and not our own ismail - that's what the jews say ...... let me tell you, this man abraham was not only a fornicator but he was also schizophrenic - imagine trying to kill your own children .......... every time his name is mentioned i think of charles manson!

#105 Posted by hamidm2

Your senility and lack of trips to the mosque have obscured this essential myth from your brain. So let me try to revive it into your neurons.

“abraham was a real man - he had his way with hagar (and many other concubines) and then got rid of her to stop his other women from nagging him ....... i am sure he found a darn good replacement for hagar .....�

Wrong! Sara was the numero uno wife and she is the one who GAVE Abraham her ‘hand maiden’ to sleep with so that he could have babies. The poor man had no choice and by the way there is no mention of any other concubines. Next when the hand maiden (Hager) had a son, she became uppity and Sara went O Yay? Abraham get rid of her!!! And what did Abraham do? He dutifully as a zun mureed like you, abandoned his only son and his mother to the desert.

“i am sure he found a darn good replacement for hagar�

He didn’t find any replacements for her, no more concubines for him just the 90 year old Sara and guess what, she got pregnant and that is when Ishaq was born and that is where the troubles of Banu Israel started. So forget your lament about company of sissies even your foundational myth is of sissies.

Re: # 104

...tehsin bewakoof! .... it is not my definition of male virtue - it is a description of real men .... abraham was a real man - he had his way with hagar (and many other concubines) and then got rid of her to stop his other women from nagging him ....... i am sure he found a darn good replacement for hagar ..... real men don't have any 'virtue' ..... just look at our future president, newt gingrich - the man was running around with a twenty year old while his wife wad dying of cancer ...... unlike the wimpy john edwards, he dumped his dying wife to get what he wanted ......... if only i had grown up in the company of real man like newt instead of sissies like you i would have had a life worth living .......

#98 Posted by hamidm2

“remember poor hagar? ...... her husband left her to die in the desert just because his new girlfriend was jealous of her!�

What the heck are you talking about, is that your description of male virtue? Moreover it wasn’t his new girlfriend, it was his old wife!!!! Abey! woh bhi zun mureed tha.

Re: # 102

tehsin gaddhay!

..... i hold you personally responsible for my present predicament ...... if i had grown up in the company of 'real' men like jack the zipper welch and shabaz sharif, i would have been a 'real' man too ...... instead i had the misfortune of growing up with sissy boys who grew up to be girlie men like you ..... now we are both living inglorious pathetic lives with women who yell at us for not taking out the trash while other men - real men - are ruling the world surrounded by beautiful women who they throw out for eating crackers in bed ! ............ my misery is your shame .........

#93 Posted by Abee

I think the point of equality is a bit tricky and I thought I had addressed it but it is hard to explain. Men and women are equal and in the domestic scene and in their interpersonal relationship definitely so. But from an external point of view as they present themselves as a unit to society and the world at large, that is where their relatives spheres tend to show the dominance of one over the other. The man in his role as in charge of the external world gives this appearance, he may totally reflect the needs and desires emanating from the home (his wife) the internal universe but it does give that appearance.

I want to reassure you that I am totally convinced about the equality of men and women despite Hamid’s pronouncements. Fact of the matter is that I am convinced that on God’s green earth there is no badmash, lucha, lufunga, terrorist, CEO, vadera, or mullah who does not have a matching woman for him. For each of these super bad macho men there would be a woman who would not only equal them but reduce them to nothing more then diaper duty and grocery shopping. Don’t listen to Hamid and his admiration of his list of HE men, for himself (and let me tell you, I know) begum kay samney kusakta nahin hay. Aur pucho tau baysharmi say kehta hai “why should I rock the boat when things are going well�.

lucky you...!!!

Re: # 99

... not just us but the whole world

Re: # 98; hamidm sahib

[[ hagar ... her husband left her to die in the desert just because his new girlfriend was jealous of her! ]]

and that's what caused all this bother we had to go though!

tehsin mian,

..... let me remind you that your hero, plato, liked boys and was all for pederasty even though he was against homosexuality ........ so was my hero, babur who, had all the women in the world but whose true love was the doe-eyed boy named baburi ........ that is why gilmans are permitted in islam - i am sure you have seen the kohl eyed boys with silk handkershiefs around their necks holding hands with the rich shopkeepers in the bazaars of bannu and mardan ...... powerful and successful men do not like to be told what is proper moral bahaviour - they make the rules! ..... i am sure you know all about edgar j hoover, the most powerful lawman of all times - the man was a cross dressing homosexual who cheated on his boyfriend roy cohn (one of the leading lawyers of his time).......

...... poor abee is in for a rude awakening when she meets a real man ........ as we both know, men are like animals who can be domesticated with offers of biryani and mediocre sex, but can never be trusted .......... remember poor hagar? ...... her husband left her to die in the desert just because his new girlfriend was jealous of her!

and Ms Bokhari ... I don't think hamidm sahib's advice was as 'unethical' as you made it sound ... by constantly reiterating the "i am an old fashioned good girl" routine (which I don't doubt for a second)

Regards

I reckon these notions of romantic love are a bit overrated ... yes it does exist but usually not a lifelong sustainable force

... may be there is a hint in there!