Haroon Shaikh May 5, 2009
#1 Posted by pavocavalry on May 6, 2009 8:42:42 am
a utopian view which is far away from quality of pakistani politicians and generals.
my analysis is as following :--
While it is still debatable that 9/11 was a deliberate conspiracy to justify a US occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq or an act of Al Qaeda,the United States of America inherited a historical situation in shape of 9/11 and made use of it to justify launching of a major Neo Operation Barbarossa to occupy the fertile the east !
This article is based on my experiences of 13 years service in the army , 34 years of study of military history including three stints as editor of three journals in Afghanistan and Pakistan and three years of continuous and many more years of interrupted stay in Afghanistan.During the course of my last continuous stay in Afghanistan from 2004 till 2008 I worked as sub contractor with many donor agencies and repeatedly came into contact with many NATO and US military officials.My projects were located in the heart of Taliban country i.e Kandahar,Ghazni,Helmand,Farah,Zabul and Kunar.
With the stated experience my perceptions of Afghanistan may be different in finer aspects from many other views,which may be outwardly neat and logical but lack the solid conviction and finnesse stemming out of an exhaustive study of military history and an on ground experience not depending on what you may read or hear from the print or the live media.
There is one similarity in US and USSR invasion of Afghanistan.Both happened because of an apparently third party action which were used by policy makers in both countries to justify an attack.Here the similarity ends.The USSR entered Afghanistan in a bipolar world where major powers decided to oppose the USSR tooth and nail and with equal and subsequently greater might.The USA entered Afghanistan in a unipolar world when no major power supported anti US insurgents.Further the USA entered Afghanistan with long term strategic plans while the USSR entered Afghanistan to support a leftist regime with whom it had a treaty of cooperation.The USSR did not enlarge its offensive after Afghanistan but the USA is continuously enlarging its offensive with the major Phase Two being the 2003 invasion of Iraq and the ongoing 2007-9 mysterious upsurge in Pakistan.Mysterious I maintain because of what I saw in Afghanistan from 2004 till 2008 and till to date.
The USA was lucky to have in Pakistan on the eve of its arrival a military tinpot dictator who was ready to sell his soul to even the devil to preserve his illegitimately won seat of power.
In retrospect as I analsyse now the US Afghan war followed the following distinct phases :--
1-An initial arm twisting manoeuvre of Pakistans illegitimate military regime to secure ground,aerial and logistic passage.This happened from October 2001 and continues till to date.
2-Pressurising the illegitimate Pakitsani military regime into launching operation in Waziristan when there was no insurgency in Waziristan from 2002 till 2006 thus destablising a most strategically sensitive region of Pakistan and internally dividing Pakistan.
3-Strengthening US military presence in Afghanistan in terms of constructing permanent air bases for possible future long term use to dominate the region including Pakistan,Iran,Central Asia,Chinese Singkiang and India.
4-Creation of an intelligence operation base from where third party penetration operations could be mounted to infiltrate any extremist or ethnic group in conflict with its parent countrys federal government.The prime immediate target being Pakistan,while Iran,China,Central Asian States may possibly be later phase targets.This phase started from November 2001 and continues till to date.
5-Forcing the illegitimate Musharraf military regime to mount another military operation in Mohmand and Bajaur thus destabilisng another strategically sensitive region of Pakistan and to discredit the Pakistani armed forces.This started from 2005 and continues till to date.
A dispassionate reader may form his own conclusions from the following observations that I have:--
1-At no stage from 2001 till to date did the US or NATO forces mount any major military operation inside Afghanistan against Taliban.Actually the force ratios of US and NATO forces does not allow this in any case.
2-All major US Army and USAID and NATO construction contracts were sub contracted at third and fourth tiers to contractors who were Taliban after sunset and contractors after sun rise.All this happened with US military officials in full knowledge.
3-While major Taliban infiltration from Pakistan to Afghanistan takes place in the 1400 km tract in between Gomal River and Chaghai Hills the US Government at no stage pressurised the Pakistani illegitimate military regime of Musharraf to interdict this influx !
4-All the US pressure on Pakistan was to take military action in Waziristan from where hardly 10 % of influx into Afghanistan was taking place ! Later the US pressure also expanded to include Bajaur and Mohmand who have a very short less than 300 km border with Pakistan.
5-Thus while major Taliban attacks were taking place on US and NATO forces in Helmand,Kandahar and Zabul who have no border with Waziristan , all along the US Government was pressusrizing the Pakistani Government to attack the Taliban in Waziristan which accounts for less than 5 % damage to any US or NATO forces in Afghanistan in terms of length of border contagious with provinces where maximum US and NATO casualties took place !
6-Till 2007 I could travel from Kabul on one end to Herat on the far end via Kandahar in a private car without any weapon safely.But not after 2007.Suddenly everything changed and USA and NATO forces took no action from 2007 till to date to secure this area !
7-Despite the fact that no major US casualties took place in Khost and Paktika provinces adjacent to Wazisristan and Kunar and Nigrahar Provinces adjacent to Khyber Agency,Bajaur and Mohmand and Dir/Swat the USA spent a fortune on bases and infrastructure building in these provinces.Construction profits were made by the very tribes fighting the Pakistan Army in Waziristan,Khyber,Bajaur and Mohmand.
8-No container taking supplies to NATO at the height of Taliban operations in Afghanistan was attacked in any area of Pakistan in bewteen 2001 and 2008 but in 2008 mysterious attacks started !
The deductions are as following :--
1-The USA did not come to Afghanistan to defeat the Taliban.
2-The USA by design destabilised Waziristan ,Khyber ,Bajaur and Mohmand to create a war like situation to justify international action to denuclearise Pakistan.
3-Pakistan needs to drastically revise itsforeign policy making a clean break with USA and NATO and making peace with India,alliance with Russia and China and Iran while preserving its nuclear deterrent.
Lastly its worthwile to quote a US statesman.To be a friend of USA is one thing but to be its friend is deadly !
The USA is part of Pakistans problems.Friendship with USA is not the solution.But who will bell the cat.Who will make the resolute decision ! No peace in sight till Pakistans statesmen and generals stop sleeping with the devil !
Agha Amin
my analysis is as following :--
While it is still debatable that 9/11 was a deliberate conspiracy to justify a US occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq or an act of Al Qaeda,the United States of America inherited a historical situation in shape of 9/11 and made use of it to justify launching of a major Neo Operation Barbarossa to occupy the fertile the east !
This article is based on my experiences of 13 years service in the army , 34 years of study of military history including three stints as editor of three journals in Afghanistan and Pakistan and three years of continuous and many more years of interrupted stay in Afghanistan.During the course of my last continuous stay in Afghanistan from 2004 till 2008 I worked as sub contractor with many donor agencies and repeatedly came into contact with many NATO and US military officials.My projects were located in the heart of Taliban country i.e Kandahar,Ghazni,Helmand,Farah,Zabul and Kunar.
With the stated experience my perceptions of Afghanistan may be different in finer aspects from many other views,which may be outwardly neat and logical but lack the solid conviction and finnesse stemming out of an exhaustive study of military history and an on ground experience not depending on what you may read or hear from the print or the live media.
There is one similarity in US and USSR invasion of Afghanistan.Both happened because of an apparently third party action which were used by policy makers in both countries to justify an attack.Here the similarity ends.The USSR entered Afghanistan in a bipolar world where major powers decided to oppose the USSR tooth and nail and with equal and subsequently greater might.The USA entered Afghanistan in a unipolar world when no major power supported anti US insurgents.Further the USA entered Afghanistan with long term strategic plans while the USSR entered Afghanistan to support a leftist regime with whom it had a treaty of cooperation.The USSR did not enlarge its offensive after Afghanistan but the USA is continuously enlarging its offensive with the major Phase Two being the 2003 invasion of Iraq and the ongoing 2007-9 mysterious upsurge in Pakistan.Mysterious I maintain because of what I saw in Afghanistan from 2004 till 2008 and till to date.
The USA was lucky to have in Pakistan on the eve of its arrival a military tinpot dictator who was ready to sell his soul to even the devil to preserve his illegitimately won seat of power.
In retrospect as I analsyse now the US Afghan war followed the following distinct phases :--
1-An initial arm twisting manoeuvre of Pakistans illegitimate military regime to secure ground,aerial and logistic passage.This happened from October 2001 and continues till to date.
2-Pressurising the illegitimate Pakitsani military regime into launching operation in Waziristan when there was no insurgency in Waziristan from 2002 till 2006 thus destablising a most strategically sensitive region of Pakistan and internally dividing Pakistan.
3-Strengthening US military presence in Afghanistan in terms of constructing permanent air bases for possible future long term use to dominate the region including Pakistan,Iran,Central Asia,Chinese Singkiang and India.
4-Creation of an intelligence operation base from where third party penetration operations could be mounted to infiltrate any extremist or ethnic group in conflict with its parent countrys federal government.The prime immediate target being Pakistan,while Iran,China,Central Asian States may possibly be later phase targets.This phase started from November 2001 and continues till to date.
5-Forcing the illegitimate Musharraf military regime to mount another military operation in Mohmand and Bajaur thus destabilisng another strategically sensitive region of Pakistan and to discredit the Pakistani armed forces.This started from 2005 and continues till to date.
A dispassionate reader may form his own conclusions from the following observations that I have:--
1-At no stage from 2001 till to date did the US or NATO forces mount any major military operation inside Afghanistan against Taliban.Actually the force ratios of US and NATO forces does not allow this in any case.
2-All major US Army and USAID and NATO construction contracts were sub contracted at third and fourth tiers to contractors who were Taliban after sunset and contractors after sun rise.All this happened with US military officials in full knowledge.
3-While major Taliban infiltration from Pakistan to Afghanistan takes place in the 1400 km tract in between Gomal River and Chaghai Hills the US Government at no stage pressurised the Pakistani illegitimate military regime of Musharraf to interdict this influx !
4-All the US pressure on Pakistan was to take military action in Waziristan from where hardly 10 % of influx into Afghanistan was taking place ! Later the US pressure also expanded to include Bajaur and Mohmand who have a very short less than 300 km border with Pakistan.
5-Thus while major Taliban attacks were taking place on US and NATO forces in Helmand,Kandahar and Zabul who have no border with Waziristan , all along the US Government was pressusrizing the Pakistani Government to attack the Taliban in Waziristan which accounts for less than 5 % damage to any US or NATO forces in Afghanistan in terms of length of border contagious with provinces where maximum US and NATO casualties took place !
6-Till 2007 I could travel from Kabul on one end to Herat on the far end via Kandahar in a private car without any weapon safely.But not after 2007.Suddenly everything changed and USA and NATO forces took no action from 2007 till to date to secure this area !
7-Despite the fact that no major US casualties took place in Khost and Paktika provinces adjacent to Wazisristan and Kunar and Nigrahar Provinces adjacent to Khyber Agency,Bajaur and Mohmand and Dir/Swat the USA spent a fortune on bases and infrastructure building in these provinces.Construction profits were made by the very tribes fighting the Pakistan Army in Waziristan,Khyber,Bajaur and Mohmand.
8-No container taking supplies to NATO at the height of Taliban operations in Afghanistan was attacked in any area of Pakistan in bewteen 2001 and 2008 but in 2008 mysterious attacks started !
The deductions are as following :--
1-The USA did not come to Afghanistan to defeat the Taliban.
2-The USA by design destabilised Waziristan ,Khyber ,Bajaur and Mohmand to create a war like situation to justify international action to denuclearise Pakistan.
3-Pakistan needs to drastically revise itsforeign policy making a clean break with USA and NATO and making peace with India,alliance with Russia and China and Iran while preserving its nuclear deterrent.
Lastly its worthwile to quote a US statesman.To be a friend of USA is one thing but to be its friend is deadly !
The USA is part of Pakistans problems.Friendship with USA is not the solution.But who will bell the cat.Who will make the resolute decision ! No peace in sight till Pakistans statesmen and generals stop sleeping with the devil !
Agha Amin
#2 Posted by muqaddam on May 6, 2009 8:53:03 am
China is a communist state where the Communist party dictorship runs the lives of its people. Its citizens do not enjoy freedom or fundamental rights.
China poses that it is close to Pakistan purely because it wants to check India's rise in Asia.
China is not the correct example for the Pakistanis to emulate.
China poses that it is close to Pakistan purely because it wants to check India's rise in Asia.
China is not the correct example for the Pakistanis to emulate.
#3 Posted by bilal843 on May 6, 2009 9:18:13 am
The third conclusion drawn by Mr. Agha Amin is what should have been from the 1st day of inception of Pakistan, we must align ourselves with our neighbors rather than powers which are very distant such USA or even Middle-East.
#4 Posted by Pew_Research on May 6, 2009 10:14:52 am
I think that Pakistan should be renamed the Great Peoples Socialist Islamist Republic, and the Jamaat and other religious parties should discard the Koran in favor of Mao's Little Red Book. I think that this article which is so persuasive will compel Pakis to do that in a heartbeat.
#5 Posted by PabloGanja on May 6, 2009 11:06:30 am
"Get over the hangover that the white man is the master. He is not. We are the masters of our own destiny, as China has demonstrated."
++++++
I found this really comical. First of all in the implication that Pakistan and China are a 'we', united against the big horrible white monster-man. The desperation of it all. And secondly the way in which, without any self-awareness, the author posits China as his new master, whilst railing against the mastery of an outsider.
Does the author just want Pakistan to be submissive to someone, anyone? And why the zero sum game, putting all the eggs in one basket mentality?
Why not be friends with, and seek investment and co-operation from everyone?
++++++
I found this really comical. First of all in the implication that Pakistan and China are a 'we', united against the big horrible white monster-man. The desperation of it all. And secondly the way in which, without any self-awareness, the author posits China as his new master, whilst railing against the mastery of an outsider.
Does the author just want Pakistan to be submissive to someone, anyone? And why the zero sum game, putting all the eggs in one basket mentality?
Why not be friends with, and seek investment and co-operation from everyone?
#7 Posted by bhairav on May 6, 2009 9:25:40 pm
Of all peoples in the world, East Asians are the most dis-passionate about religion. Among the East Asians Chinese and Japanese are the most liberal and the Koreans with their Christian Moonies are most religious. Unlike Semitic religions like Islam where people live (and die or commit suicide or get killed) for religion, East Asians are one of the smartest people who use religion to make their daily living easier and better (similar to brushing and flossing teeth) and if inconvenient simply discard it from their daily living.
If you had a scale from 0 to 100, with 0 being absolute atheist society and 100 being a absolute totalitarian religious society where every action of your life had to follow a strict religious code, China would be 5 and Pakistan 105
Chinese think they are very backward when they compare themselves to Japan, US and Europe. And they don’t want any Pakistani influence on their muslims especially the Uighurs in Xinjiang.
So before embracing Chinese, 1st question to ask is - With 1000 lb Godzilla monster baggage of Islam, can Pakistan follow China model? Then do Chinese want to embrace you?
In last 60 years China went from moderately Buddhist/Taoist society to almost absolutely atheist society. And in the same 60 years Pakistan went from moderately strong Islamic society to rabidly fundamentalist Talibanist Jihadist society. In the last 60 years, all big landlords in China lost their land to peasants and in Pakistan most big landlords became wealthier, stronger and powerful. In China, though they follow caplitalism now, socialism and communism is still respected whereas in Pakistan, socialism/communism are dirty words. In 60 years, Chinese have achieved near universal literacy and Pakistan has less than 50 % literate population. There is almost a difference of 100 -150 years between Chinese and Pakistani societies, their values and their thinking.
Don’t wish to rain on your parade but proposing Pakistan to emulate China is similar to asking the dwarf Mini-Me (from Austin Powers movie) to shoot hoops like Michael Jordan.
If you had a scale from 0 to 100, with 0 being absolute atheist society and 100 being a absolute totalitarian religious society where every action of your life had to follow a strict religious code, China would be 5 and Pakistan 105
Chinese think they are very backward when they compare themselves to Japan, US and Europe. And they don’t want any Pakistani influence on their muslims especially the Uighurs in Xinjiang.
So before embracing Chinese, 1st question to ask is - With 1000 lb Godzilla monster baggage of Islam, can Pakistan follow China model? Then do Chinese want to embrace you?
In last 60 years China went from moderately Buddhist/Taoist society to almost absolutely atheist society. And in the same 60 years Pakistan went from moderately strong Islamic society to rabidly fundamentalist Talibanist Jihadist society. In the last 60 years, all big landlords in China lost their land to peasants and in Pakistan most big landlords became wealthier, stronger and powerful. In China, though they follow caplitalism now, socialism and communism is still respected whereas in Pakistan, socialism/communism are dirty words. In 60 years, Chinese have achieved near universal literacy and Pakistan has less than 50 % literate population. There is almost a difference of 100 -150 years between Chinese and Pakistani societies, their values and their thinking.
Don’t wish to rain on your parade but proposing Pakistan to emulate China is similar to asking the dwarf Mini-Me (from Austin Powers movie) to shoot hoops like Michael Jordan.
#9 Posted by RiazHaq on May 7, 2009 8:22:07 am
Deng succeeded only because a Mao preceded him. Pakistan needs a Mao first, then pursue a Deng to follow him.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide
#10 Posted by HaroonEllahi on May 7, 2009 8:28:56 am
Ladies and gentlemen, I have not said that Pakistan should emulate everything Chinese - I have merely expressed my readiness to display the fact that our parliamentary form of democracy has failed. Upon this realization, I have merely attempted to find inspirations for new systems which could work in Pakistan.
Deng Xiaopeng thought is profound because it introduces a form of socialism which takes its central tennets from communism while embraces it with free market policies.
Pakistan needs to be 'pulled' into the right orbit of development, growth, economic progress, technical capacity, and social stability. These are the ideals which would ensure that the rising aspirations of the Pakistani people can be met.
You can defeat feudalism without having to actually bring the sort of revolutionary land reforms which came in China.
China's renegade province Taiwan achieved land reform without hostile take over of lands controlled by dynastic families. They created a state-supported land investment fund which would buy out agricultural and rural land using government funds and then provide that land to landless peasants on interest-free long term loans.
This is the process which Pakistan could use to ensure a gradual reversal of the feudalistic conditions which prevail.
However, the principal challenges to such a fund would be to ensure a.ensuring accountability and b. ensuring corruption does not get in the way.
Now we can look to the mainland for a solution to this problem and thats simple - we need to create a series of disincentives which will be too costly for someone to engage in corruption. People engage in corruption because they have greed and dishonesty and they are unable to withstand the pressure of this incentive. If this incentive can be made too costly, i.e negated with more pressure by a disincentive, then we could stamp out coruption.
Yes, I am refering to capital punishments or extreme forms of punishment for engaging in corruption.
Deng Xiaopeng thought is profound because it introduces a form of socialism which takes its central tennets from communism while embraces it with free market policies.
Pakistan needs to be 'pulled' into the right orbit of development, growth, economic progress, technical capacity, and social stability. These are the ideals which would ensure that the rising aspirations of the Pakistani people can be met.
You can defeat feudalism without having to actually bring the sort of revolutionary land reforms which came in China.
China's renegade province Taiwan achieved land reform without hostile take over of lands controlled by dynastic families. They created a state-supported land investment fund which would buy out agricultural and rural land using government funds and then provide that land to landless peasants on interest-free long term loans.
This is the process which Pakistan could use to ensure a gradual reversal of the feudalistic conditions which prevail.
However, the principal challenges to such a fund would be to ensure a.ensuring accountability and b. ensuring corruption does not get in the way.
Now we can look to the mainland for a solution to this problem and thats simple - we need to create a series of disincentives which will be too costly for someone to engage in corruption. People engage in corruption because they have greed and dishonesty and they are unable to withstand the pressure of this incentive. If this incentive can be made too costly, i.e negated with more pressure by a disincentive, then we could stamp out coruption.
Yes, I am refering to capital punishments or extreme forms of punishment for engaging in corruption.
#11 Posted by tahmed32 on May 7, 2009 8:37:21 am
Haroon: Why not follow the US model instead? Thus, in China they may execute corrupt officials - but it is the US regulatory system that caught the shoddy goods (lead-tainted food products e.g.) that escaped the Chinese system.
#12 Posted by RiazHaq on May 7, 2009 8:50:43 am
Re: # 10: "China's renegade province Taiwan achieved land reform without hostile take over of lands controlled by dynastic families. They created a state-supported land investment fund which would buy out agricultural and rural land using government funds and then provide that land to landless peasants on interest-free long term loans."
Couple of points to remember here:
1. The original natives of Taiwan constitute only 2% of the population. The rest are Han Chinese from mainland who moved in and took over the island of Formosa after the Communist revolution. The 2% aborigines are heavily discriminated against.
2. Taiwan industrialized first and very rapidly under a dictatorial regime of Ching-Kai Shek. That's what led to a more democratic arrangement. Chiang Kai-shek started a personality cult and stamped out political dissent, two most conspicuous features of dictatorship. He had people worship him as one like ancient China’s sage king and the savior of the entire Chinese nation. One best-known case of suppression was the arrest and trial of his former secretary Lei Chen in 1961.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide
Couple of points to remember here:
1. The original natives of Taiwan constitute only 2% of the population. The rest are Han Chinese from mainland who moved in and took over the island of Formosa after the Communist revolution. The 2% aborigines are heavily discriminated against.
2. Taiwan industrialized first and very rapidly under a dictatorial regime of Ching-Kai Shek. That's what led to a more democratic arrangement. Chiang Kai-shek started a personality cult and stamped out political dissent, two most conspicuous features of dictatorship. He had people worship him as one like ancient China’s sage king and the savior of the entire Chinese nation. One best-known case of suppression was the arrest and trial of his former secretary Lei Chen in 1961.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide
#13 Posted by nkg on May 7, 2009 6:17:41 pm
Re: #7
mahadev (Bhairav) tistha...
To achieve higher technical and scientific competence, the country may not follow chinese/communist model of universal education. With almost 15% to 20% literacy rate, British India (only couple of provinces) better quality engineers,doctors and scientists during late 19th century and early 20th century. Post British period, India's clout in science and technology is declining, though the literacy rate and number of university increased drasticaly....
mahadev (Bhairav) tistha...
To achieve higher technical and scientific competence, the country may not follow chinese/communist model of universal education. With almost 15% to 20% literacy rate, British India (only couple of provinces) better quality engineers,doctors and scientists during late 19th century and early 20th century. Post British period, India's clout in science and technology is declining, though the literacy rate and number of university increased drasticaly....
#14 Posted by nkg on May 7, 2009 6:36:58 pm
contd...
mahadev...
though, quantitatively,Cuba produces more doctors, their contribution in medical science is quite negligible....
Regarding Pakistan...
As a parasitic nation, Pakistan got enough support and help from USA. Without US help, quality of Pakistani higher education etc. would have been like that of Somalia/Libiya etc... and there is no basic difference between these countries.....
What Pakistan got from USA vis a vis China?
During 1971 war, if Indira Gandhi spared Sindh, it was due to the pressure from USA ( via USSR), which kept Indira Gandhi on hold....
China did not sent a single soldier to support Pakistan or utterred single word....
During 1998/1991 war in Kargil, the mis-adventure was primarily initiated at the behest of China. But when, Pakistani soldiers were started getting nice thrashing, NS had to fly to US to beg to Clinton. Vajpayee responed to the request (or better order) from Clinton after continuing assault for couple of weeks. China lost nothing....
http://www.nypost.com/seven/05042009/postopinion/opedcolumnists/j ust_walk_away_167489.htm
I think, US should get rid of Pakistan and take away all the US$ they wasted on Pakistan.....
Let the chinkus invade Pakistan to chinkuise (the way beduin invaders beduinised Pakistan by loot, plunder and rape. Lathon ka bhoot.....) people living in Pakistan.....
mahadev...
though, quantitatively,Cuba produces more doctors, their contribution in medical science is quite negligible....
Regarding Pakistan...
As a parasitic nation, Pakistan got enough support and help from USA. Without US help, quality of Pakistani higher education etc. would have been like that of Somalia/Libiya etc... and there is no basic difference between these countries.....
What Pakistan got from USA vis a vis China?
During 1971 war, if Indira Gandhi spared Sindh, it was due to the pressure from USA ( via USSR), which kept Indira Gandhi on hold....
China did not sent a single soldier to support Pakistan or utterred single word....
During 1998/1991 war in Kargil, the mis-adventure was primarily initiated at the behest of China. But when, Pakistani soldiers were started getting nice thrashing, NS had to fly to US to beg to Clinton. Vajpayee responed to the request (or better order) from Clinton after continuing assault for couple of weeks. China lost nothing....
http://www.nypost.com/seven/05042009/postopinion/opedcolumnists/j ust_walk_away_167489.htm
I think, US should get rid of Pakistan and take away all the US$ they wasted on Pakistan.....
Let the chinkus invade Pakistan to chinkuise (the way beduin invaders beduinised Pakistan by loot, plunder and rape. Lathon ka bhoot.....) people living in Pakistan.....
#15 Posted by nkg on May 7, 2009 7:33:51 pm
Re: # 10
haroon...
Parliamentary form of democracy is not a burden to anything...It is the beduinistic approach of viewing life, that is budern....
a nice example....
http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.php?id=214605
haroon...
Parliamentary form of democracy is not a burden to anything...It is the beduinistic approach of viewing life, that is budern....
a nice example....
http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.php?id=214605
#16 Posted by pmishra2 on May 7, 2009 11:53:49 pm
best thing would be to invite china to take over the country. The would eliminate every jihadi within 15 days (china has higher number of executions in the world) and send your elite class packing off to their homes in US and Europe.
Just like the tibetans, the job of pakistan would be to provide raw materials and market for chinese industry. Tens of thousands of Chinese supervisors, teachers and engineers could be settled in pakistan within armed camps to train the primitive local people.
This is an exact fit for pakistan, as it has no real positive ambitions or goals - other than being not-India or maybe even hate-India. And the chinese would not object to this aspect of the culture, so the pakistanis would still be happy :-)
I think this is a marriage made in heaven !
Just like the tibetans, the job of pakistan would be to provide raw materials and market for chinese industry. Tens of thousands of Chinese supervisors, teachers and engineers could be settled in pakistan within armed camps to train the primitive local people.
This is an exact fit for pakistan, as it has no real positive ambitions or goals - other than being not-India or maybe even hate-India. And the chinese would not object to this aspect of the culture, so the pakistanis would still be happy :-)
I think this is a marriage made in heaven !
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