Obama's Af-Pak Strategy

TrichMir#542 Fair enough. The question one needs to ask is: why did the army "fail to vanquish" the taleban in Swat? clearly, it wasnt due to lack of capability (given its air control, armor, vast disciplined, well-equipped manpower, not to mention legitimacy), as is obvious with the way just a couple of brigades are being used to knock the turbans off the taliban right now. The answer is, from what I have heard - musharraf ordering the troops to step back when they took on the taleban in 2007.

Next logical question: Why did Musharraf not launch an all-out offensive against the taleban the way the democratic government has done? I think the answer is obvious. By pointing fingers at one another (ANP, army) for allowing the Swat mess, there is a need for a proper trial of musharraf (where his dirty, self-serving role in Swat will be just another example of the many damaging things he has done to Pakistan, and the thousands of lives lost as a result.

Re: # 540 tahmed32

Please read Hasho's post #360 to know why did I mention only Pashtun casualties in my post that has apparently exasperated you.

The ANP government of Pashtunkhwa was left no other option but to strike a peace deal with the Talebans after the army had failed to vanquish them.

Read this article if you want to know who are the real friends of arby bais and the Talebans.
http://tinyurl.com/Talibanisation-Musharraf

New York Times reader comment on India going to the polls, "The world's biggest exercise in democracy"



April 15, 2009 It is truly the greatest show on Earth, an ode to a diverse and democratic ethos, where 700 million + of humanity vote, providing their small part in directing their ancient civilization into the future. It is no less impressive when done in a neighbourhood which includes de-stabilizing and violent Pakistan, China, and Burma. Its challenges are immense, more so probably than anywhere else, particularly in development and fending off terrorism -- but considering these challenges and its neighbours, it is even more astounding that the most diverse nation on Earth, with hundreds of languages, all religions and cultures, is not only surviving, but thriving.

The nation where Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism were born, which is the second largest Muslim nation on Earth; where Christianity has existed for 2000 years; where the oldest Jewish synagogues and Jewish communities have resided since the Romans burnt their 2nd temple; where the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan government in exile reside; where the Zoroastrians from Persia have thrived since being thrown out of their ancient homeland; where Armenians and Syrians and many others have to come live; where the Paris-based OECD said was the largest economy on Earth 1500 of the last 2000 years, including the 2nd largest only 200 years ago; where 3 Muslim Presidents have been elected, where a Sikh is Prime Minister and the head of the ruling party a Catholic Italian woman, where the President is also a woman, succeeding a Muslim President who as a rocket scientist was a hero in the nation; where a booming economy is lifting 40 million out of poverty each year and is expected to have the majority of its population in the middle class, already equal to the entire US population, by 2025; where its optimism and vibrancy is manifested in its movies, arts, economic growth, and voting, despite all the incredible challenges and hardships; where all the great powers are vying for influence, as it itself finds its place in the world. Where all of this is happening, is India, and as greater than 1/10 of humanity gets ready to vote, it is an inspiration to all the World.


- V Mitchell, New York, NY

TirchMIr: And who exactly gave "hospitality" to these animals..I mean "fellow muslims", "arby bhai"... responsible for killing 3000 innocent people on 9/11 when the US security forces came after them? Until, i.e., these "guests" turned upon their "hosts"?? And who claimed that the "Swat deal" was an internal matter between pakhtoons, and the Pakistan government should not come in the way? That's right - ANP. The same ANP whose workers you say have been killed by the taliban - but the thousands of Pakistanis killed by suicide bombings in cities across Pakistan by these animals are nowhere mentioned by you.

So stop blaming the "establishment". The "establishment" that pushed for deals was your own elected ANP - the "pakhtoonkhwa" party.

Re: # 536
Likewise the Uzbeks must consider it an an insult to see a missile being named after Babur.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Why should they consider it an insult? Babaur was not an uzbek and Uzbeks were no friends of Temurids - those who chased Babur out of Farghana were none other than Uzbeks themselves.

Hasho,

The Talebans are not the only criminals. I, personally, consider the Pakistani establishment far bigger evil between these two.

Almost 150 ANP workers, more than 500 pro-government Maliks in the TAs and thousands of anti-Taleban Pashtuns have been killed at the hands of Talebans and the establishment did absolutely nothing to save their lives. Enough blood of anti-Taleban Pashtuns has been shed so I would say keep away from this ugly war which is being fought between these two evils, let them butcher each other.

I feel sorry for the civilian population of the whole Malakand division though who has lost everything and the future of their children looks bleak if this war spreads to other areas of Frontier and lasts few years which is quite possible.

Re: # 534 Tahmed

"...reality, there are in fact very few resentments between pakistani and indian panjabis over 1947 (apparent even on chowk, where Indians not suffering from Pakistanphobia are largely panjabi in fact - pardesi, stuka etc.)..."

That's a great viewpoint. I think that the Internet blogs (e.g. Chowk) have a downside - they bring out the worst tendencies amongst some people because they can hide behind anonymity (like in a mob) and not accept responsibility for their actions or words. It also has the effect of providing a platform for some of the looney ideas that would be laughed off offline.

Perhaps, Chowk should be used to outline what the future vision all have of India-Pakistan relations and what each of these countries should look like. Once people document this, I think that one will have a basis on which to build an understanding. What do you think?

What do think the future of Pakistan should look like? India? India-Pakistan relations?

Re: # 401
One often wonders why desi Pakistanis invoke foreign names for their missiles e.g. Ghauri, Ghazani and Babur. Do they expect that the missiles will become more deadly if named after the marauders like Ghazani and Ghori whose hordes looted and raped the Hindu great great-great-great-great-great-great grandmothers of the present day Hindus-turned-Muslims-turned-Pakistanis, or is it that by naming the missiles after these haramis they think they would become closer to their Western and Northern neighbours.
Likewise the Uzbeks must consider it an an insult to see a missile being named after Babur. He is famous in Uzbekistan even today as a great poet. An Uzbek's heart warms up when you talk to him about Babur and India. Uzbeks often say that before the Russians came to them and the English came to India there were no borders between the two countries. Never a mention of Pakistan in the dialogue.
Could the Pakistanis not think of names like Allah Ditta or Kallu Mian for their missiles? These names would be closer home.

#533 nkg

[I still feel, India should seel Kashmir valley to Pakistan via Saudi Arabia and other arab countries...what Pakis beduinoids have to do is to convince their arab masters...
thats all....we will gift 1 crore musla from india...buy kashmir, get 10mn musla free.... ]

I would agree with you, except for the fact that they will immigrate back. Muslims know that they have the best time in non-Muslim lands - they can have all the rights as anybody else and keep demanding special status and keep whining constantly about a million things, while depriving minorities of basic rights in their own lands.

All countries with musla populations will be regretting the day they let the first one in. France is regretting it already. Britain is as well. As are Netherlands and Germany. Greece is not on speaking terms with Turkey - they know hwt it's like.

When oil becomes irrelevant, Westerners will take action, and make it difficult for Muslims to operate the way they usually do.

#531 Spy: You should not go by such simplistic assumptions (i.e. that there are eternal hatreds due to partition riots), since reality is stranger (i.e. more complex) than fiction (i.e. these simplistic assumptions).

If you look at reality, there are in fact very few resentments between pakistani and indian panjabis over 1947 (apparent even on chowk, where Indians not suffering from Pakistanphobia are largely panjabi in fact - pardesi, stuka etc.). And I should know something about the Pakistan side - being the son of muslims who had to leave their ancestral home behind in India, and bring terrible memories with them to Pakistan. Not once did I hear anything negative about hindus or sikhs, and pictures of a couple of female hindu friends in college were kept in the family album by my late mother for years. Even though she barely escaped getting killed herself in the train to Pakistan.

So, those who play the "victim card" the most are not the victims themselves. But the lowlife seeking an outlet for whatever personal miseries afflict them.

Re: # 530
I still feel, India should seel Kashmir valley to Pakistan via Saudi Arabia and other arab countries...what Pakis beduinoids have to do is to convince their arab masters...
thats all....we will gift 1 crore musla from india...buy kashmir, get 10mn musla free....

Re: # 177 Khyber: "Indians should not be so optimistic."

This is the only statement for which most Indians will have a different view. Rest all your comments are on target and we are working on it.

Re: # 526 tahmed32: both these nut jobs mentioned in #525 were from South India. So much for "except for the very few in the North Indian states bordering Pakistan."

While in North india you will find many families affected by partition and having faced its consequences directly to have their own opinions and personal feelings, there are hardly any in the remaining parts of India.

The examples you mentioned could be more of an exception. The number of such persons could be increasing due to the Pak adventurism and the increased media exposure.

Also as majumdar (#527) put it that it also true.

#515 Miyan Madani : "The time will come when India is disintegrating to attack at proper time tosnatch, even better is to wait for ripe fruit falls in our lap then just go and pick it up and put in bag. Patience is virtue. Presently the strategic blunder of starting three wars and hidden enemy usa who wants to snatch crown jewels like aopportunistic chief, this is wrong policy and wrong policy also takes time to get posionous fruits. Presently will be wise to declare peace on India and go after Ts."

Your bedouin culture of Islam took birth and can survive only in times of war. Peace at the borders means infighting among your muslim tribes. You really have no choice other than fighting some one. Habits dont disappear. Especially when Quran is there to remind.

As you correctly assessed, India- Hindu culture, is based on peaceful living. Like an elephant, some minor wars here and there do not make it loose its intent and temperament. Using force and intimidation does not go far. On the contrary it enhances the resolve to withstand them.

Many here, including Hamidm, who know only force, may never realize that the only time people in India thought of letting Kashmir go was when recently there was a peace movement and a discusion on the status of Pundits was seriously mooted.

Our way of doing things is different. Indian culture finds its strength in discussion not in show of force. You may have to wait well after muslim states have disappeared to see India disintegrate.

I do care not only for AllahRakhis but also Dr. Gyan Prakash of Mingora. If we care for Bakiland, it's because of those innocent AllahRakhis and her progeny and well meaning folks like Dr. Gyan Prakash.

Bhola,

"guru dev,

{{India needs to evaporate these Anglicized Talibs in Pindi and I'bad first.}}

Yeah right...& then when we proceed to dip our lingums in the irradiated Ganges, we will all become sterile---population problem solved."

Bholanath Aap to Bade Candle Kisser Nikale!

"get out of this dangerous delusion that a nuclear war can be "won".

the scary part is there are enough buttheads like you on both sides that believe that.."

Yeh ButtHead Kya Hota Hain! Did you mean Head Bhat ie Anglicized or Shero Shayari Karanewala Bamanya? Please tell me if we can develop like Neutron Bum, a Bum to kill all the Anglicized Gandu Baman Gopi's progeny like our dear Dimwit Gandu selectively. We should drop the bum early in the morning when the Poorbi winds are flowing. What do you think?

Yes I do care for the innocent AllahRakhis and RamPyaris and their progeny. Real devil incarnates are Anglicized gandus in I'bad and Pindi.

Since you are such a good Kandle Kisser, India should not just drop the bum but good for nothing kandle kisser bums also from 40K ft height. Picture yourself coming down from that height with bum in hand, whisky peg on your head and a lighted candle in your butt-hole. Which candle do you prefer green or white? Long or thick bhindi? We will make sure that to receive you on the ground in I'bad there will be folks like Suzanne Roy and Sardesai. Don't worry, the candle flame in your butt Hum Boozane Nahi Denge - just keep your butt on the west. Would you pl do that?

Arre Sala Hum bhi Shero shayari Main Kum Nahi! Hum ne bhi kuch to sikh liya reciting Saare Jahan Se Achha. That also was penned by Arabized Bamanya.