Chaos – Thy Name is Pakistan

An inspiring article indeed that gives a balanced view of the issues on the one hand and on the other it increases the feeling that how ill-informed, unaware, and un-focussed we are as a nation. While in this thick soap, we still lack crisp thinking and dispassionate and critical analysis of the situation and taking a clear-n-bold stance as we did in case of restoration of judiciary. Our opinion leaders are equally guilty of this charge.

The enormous desire of masses to see Pakistan as a true Islamic state throws mouth-watering opporunity to those who, in the name of "pure Islam" were first able to successfully subjugate people in their own land and now busy exporting their brand in other countries through their nasty ways. And being naive, as we are, we continue to see them as our saviors who will, one day, deliver us freedom and peaceful Islamic state. Not a chance!

If you dig little deep into the heart of the matter you start seeing their tentacles spread all around us.

If we were united in rejecting these "fascism importers", who create split in our ranks, we would have formed a strong defense against other enemies.

United we stand!

Re: # 151 teshah: "IDPS, who are highly indoctrinated and motivated, I am afraid, may ultimately prove to be more dangerous politically than the Taliban. It is therefore imperative that they should be kept away from the big cities, espesially Islamabad, in camps."

teshah - I guess you might have better knowledge of the ground realities and reasons for your views, but I have different views which are very simple and clear:
- There is something seriously wrong that various sections/communities of the Pak society in that region such as the IDP, Pathans, Talibans, Punjabis etc. are always at loggerheads. There are lot of interacts indicating lot of mistrust between communities for various reasons - misused/abandoned etc. It is high time that the community level suspicions, grieviences are resolved permanenetly, without attributing to external reasons America, Russia, India etc.
- "IDP are highly indoctrinated and motivated and worse than Talibans" It beats me who is against whom and what benefit anyone is trying to get by controlling that region that is mountaneous and barren.
- "should be kept away from the big cities". For an effective integration within a country free movement of people needs to be allowed.

#134 Nichiro, #135 Muqaddam: Dont be so pessimistic.

Historically the Pakis/muslims although had grudge against the British for the demise of mughals, but were lesser active during the freedom struggle. They did not really go through the grind of struggle for freedom, so they do not value it as much as the Indians/hindus did. The actual struggle and sacrifices was done by the indians/Hindus while the Pak/Muslims got it gratis. The majority of muslims were busy fighting the Congress rather than the Brits and more interested in post-independece scenarios of hindu domination and TNT theory. The Indians / hindus had enough reasons for gaurding their freedom by evolving democratic institutions, while there were no such compelling reasons for the Pak/muslims.

But that is all past. Even now the things can be improved in Pak and the onus is on the common people to set the agenda what they want, can accept, cannot accept etc. rather than remain passive. Have strong faith in democracy and given sufficient opportunity and time period it has enough self-correcting mechanisms to provide a good governance and betterment of the common people. The recent Indian polls have demonstrated that.

Re: # 150

SPY

As pointed out by aft at #131 the IDPS, who are highly indoctrinated and motivated, I am afraid, may ultimately prove to be more dangerous politically than the Taliban. It is therefore imperative that they should be kept away from the big cities, espesially Islamabad, in camps.

Re: # 131 afat: I have not come across such nice, clear, concise, unbiased observations as you have made of the historical events and the future possibility, both rolled in one interact, about the north-western part of the sub-continent.

Afat - "By the way I am baffled, a nation such as punjabis which have gone though so much invasions in history ...still has no vision for future.......and fells again and again in traps set by others...
it baffles me...and they have not wisen up , just look at the way they are falling for another invasion from the North West in form of Talibans.
By the way some one told me, the core of these Talibans consist of Chechins, Uzbeks,...and people from central asia....... locals are just cannon fodders....is it true..
So are we witnessing another ...... historical invasion.into the sub-continent .... only this time the route is not to Panipat , but Karachi or Gawadar...."

I would differ about the statement "trap laid by others". While this could have been true in olden days, but not in today's context, it needs to be stated as the "falls in own trap".

It is well known that Pakistan had raised the Talibans to gain the "strategic depth" and ultimately use them against India. But they had never factored in the American involvement in A'tan, the Talibans going out of control, the world getting the so senstive to the use of terrorism as a state policy by Pakistan (eg mumbai reaction), forcing it to do a U-turn on its policies and control the Talibans/Jihadis within its own territory. It is being forced to consume the same poison that it created for use against India.

@md.gill

A good and timely topic but not a good article as one would have expected from you.

You call Bharat, a Hindu India. How can you say that? Would not you then call Pakistan 'Muslim India' and Bangladesh, as 'Bangali India' (which they certainly are)? But Bharat by no stretch of imagination be called 'Hindu India' as it is a truly secular state and that is its secret of stability with democracy.

It is pity that some of our intellectuals also think that Pakistan's very existence depends on religious hatred against Hindus. But it is this very hatred which has now given rise to Talibans who are bent upon destroying Pakistan and massacring its people. "Afala tafaqqaroon" (Why don't you think?).

test

I found the following comment on the NYT blog and it stinks of Kulharee, even the nick signed at the end:

-----

Pakistan is a nation founded on the basis of a conspiracy theory. Is it any surprise that day in, day out, it continues to produce more of them? How else would it justify itself? Whatever Pakistan was, came to an end in 1971, when the majority seceded in the form of Bangladesh. Now the Punjabi Army and Punjabi landowners just hang on for dear life.
— Axeman

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THE NYT blog FLAK control. Tries to counter the facts (not conspiracies) that are well understood by Pakistanis regarding US support of the Taliban and the creation of the mess and humanitarian disaster in pakistan

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/12/a-grand-conspiracy-theor y-from-pakistan/?ref=world

This is to inform you that our friend Tahir has been illegally detained by Chowk staff and might be subject to water boarding because of the following post:

From: chowkstaff
To: tahir
Date: May 13, 2009 Wed 07:10 pm

Your following post was filtered for objectionable content. For the next 24 hours all your posts will be reviewed before they appear on Chowk. Failure to follow Interact Guidelines may result in your account being suspended.

Padesh,
Are you the same \'Miss Mrikan Bhai\' who is now acting as Padesh? Business sure is bad these days.....

and interestingly there's a website

www.islamabadobserver.com

showing beheading of Pakistani Regular Soldiers!

Re: # 142 cwrightmills2
((that was 170,000,000 not billion ))

Don't worry, ver soon it will be.

that was 170,000,000 not billion

As u can see the national agenda of Pakistan has once again been aligned with US agenda of fighting its wars without end, and the fate and livelihood, food and health of the 170+ million people of Pakistan, once again tied to fighting America's wars where an army of 700,000 is fighting a 4000 strong band of thugs, keeping 170,000,000,000 impoverished as a result...and then they want proof of how the Taliban are supported by the USA....

CWM2

nkg writes "whether Jinnah wanted or not, Pakistan is a lovely concept to Indians (to get rid of large number of muslas)...\"

That is why that other right wing lunatic majumdar (with apologies) adds pbuh whenever he mentions "Jinnah". Their hatred for Muslims knows no bounds and MAJ weakened the Muslims by opportunistically using Islam for purposes of division both numerically in India as well as through backlash factor and then condemned through such division our rule by the Pakistan Army and being a whore of the imperialists for the major part of our history.

CWM2

#124 Hasho, while I agree with much of your post your assertion about division into nationalities as a cure for minority grievances, I completely disagree with. Division is no cure for grievance especially when that division has been used to pit groups against each other for for ruling through division as the colonialists of old perfected. What happened in India post partititon cannot be taken as proof of what would have happened were no partition to take place, that is all circumscribed by the events of the partition. What would have become, might have become or happened is all speculation. This nationality and nationalism business is quite similar to racism as phenomenon and its purpose is not to fix grievances but to create them in order for the few to dominate the rest by binding a group to a system/structure and alienating another.

You need to get over your belief that Manto will amount to something. The guy is a charlatan and a spineless one at that. Have a nice day and take it easy,

CWM2