Chaos – Thy Name is Pakistan

Re: # 49 Manto

Ayesha Jalal's book is not an easy read, but it has lots of good information. BTW, I recommend you see the Indian movie 'Sardar' which is based on the life of Sardar Patel. The book is consistent with the account of the Partition negotiations in the movie. Both acknowledge that Partition was not on Jinnah's mind (or at least the Partition of Punjab/Bengal - although he would have accepted unpartitioned Punjab/Bengal), it was the Congress (both Nehru and Patel, and not just Nehru) who threw in the towel and asked for Partition rather than accept the groupings.

That said, I think that Jinnah miscalculated on at least two accounts according to Jalal:

a) he thought that Congress would never accept Partition and continue to negotiate on groupings, not realizing that any communal formula was anathema to the Congress

b) he thought that he had ample time to work this out, whereas Mountbatten advanced the timetable for Independence

He also never defined what 'Pakistan' meant to keep all factions of the League in his tent, but that also meant that when Partition came suddenly, Pakistan had no well-defined vision.

Re: # 88 harish
[...he wants us to believe that Jinnah's very same "personal secular beliefs" were enough to guarantee safety to the Hindu-Sikh minorities in Pakistan...]

Ha ha... and moreover, J-man was of "Muslim" League party...

A secular Congress is bad for muslims, but a Muslim League party, which expressly says it's for muslims, will good for other minorities...

Man - These pakis are so stupid...

#61 by MantoLives

In other words... whatever Nehru's personal secular beliefs... this meant a total domination of Hindu majority in New Delhi on areas which were Muslim majority.

OK, so Yasser believes despite Nehru's personal secular beliefs, Hindus would have dominated Muslims in India. Yet, he wants us to believe that Jinnah's very same "personal secular beliefs" were enough to guarantee safety to the Hindu-Sikh minorities in Pakistan. How balanced!

Re: # 47 Pew
[...MAJ did not desire Partition...]

Man - that little "revelation" cracks me up - after 60 years of pakis going blue on face on TNT and Hindooo domination and waht not - it turns out that the "father of the nation" dude himself didn't even want a separate pakiland... it was congress who made pakiland... LOL

another propaganda says that "diobandis" and "ahmadis" were created by the british to create a confusion between the muslims so they could deviate from "jihad". I don't buy that,no mater who has proven it or written about it.

similarly there are mullas who have written stuff which does not make sense at all !!! tahir says "faith starts where science ends", science is not alone, the "neem hakeem" of our time are really hurting the religion bad.

well to my point of view, Jinnah was "used" to create pakistan on a base which even Jinnah would have gone like "I dunno guys!!!".

He spent his whole life in england and they convinced him to make a "muslim" state. the idea was a great but the approach was wrong. religion was used to get a piece of land but it was all about a group of people having a ground so they can get thier "powerplay" on!!! and it happened !!! look back and it's all clear, look now and it's even clearer !!!

problem is that we are not honest to the land,we got it, took it for granted.picked people who screwed it over and over and the land kept smiling,we leave it,get a different nationality,but when we die,she takes us back.the values which had made it are all lost.the system has gone so corrupt that a voice goes quite before it's even raised.

As for Ahmadis, they are not a british creation, it's a part of the propaganda to link them with british. it's a sect based on faith and that is all to it. I know atleast 3 people who were ahmadis,

1. Allama Iqbal - most people may not know this but he was,the reason he was quite was due to the pressure which was to come from the mullahs (javed iqbal says he does not know that), search youtube for dr. shahid masood's interviews.
2. Chaudry Zafar Ullah Khan (a key activist)
3. Dr. Abdussalam (nobel prize winner)

they were good human beings,so stop this hatred for sects and forgod sake be humble.my dad is a hardcore maudodi follower,he's got a thing for it as well, anyone who carries a name "mirza", he be like "is heee??" and i am like "relax dad".

irony is that most of us don't even pray 5 times or have not openend quran in ages but we are so fired up to declare anyone whatever we want to. let me ask you, when you die will you be asked about ahmadis or shia etc etc? only what you have done and that is it !!! Do Allah care if you are a shia or a sunni? then what the hell (with respect) is wrong with us all? why are we stuck in this sect war? we label this islam? how?

coming back to britian, isn't that where everyone else runs off to? benazir, itlaf, nawaz, hell I got half of my family living in UK, they all went there and seeked asylum when bhutto was hanged, whoever gets a boot in Pakistan, ends up in UK, so do not point out a single entity.

peace.

Re: # 82 tahir, you here as well

http://www.chowk.com/unplugged/3

curious, as it has your hall marks!

Re: # 42

That is exactly the point I am trying to make.

The apology came too late; I'd already pressed the CONDEMNED button after carefully reviewing the file of the vile evidence.

Re: # 78
Manto Dead,

By half-heartedly admitting that you don't possess this or that passport, you stood on a pedestal, by mentioning my mother with your foul mouth, you've shown your true colours.

I have reason to believe that YOU are the one who abused my family posing as PEON OF THE WEST.

May the worms happily feed upon your tongue (in a dark Rabwah grave) for uttering filth against my family. Real men don't drag one another's mother into a fight unless they're hopeless barristers or sinisters.

Don't bother explaining or apologizing.

Anyway... this is the problem with this website. It causes one to behave in an undignified manner.

I retract my last unparliamentary comment to tahir with due apology and beg leave from this horrible website.

Mr. F. thinker,

While we're at it, let me object to the title of the piece.

17 crore people live here daily, some die too. So?

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Re: # 76
Maj,

"ML is a part of the Lawyers movement."

A while back someone did insist that Her Majesty's (lack of) Intelligence-5, were dishing out Ponds and Pennies for this apparently useful movement.

Tahir mian,

Our friend Mantolives is as you have rightly suspected a Mirzaee. But to the best of my knowledge he holds no foriegn passport he is based in Isloo and is a part of the Lawyers movement.

Regards

Re: # 67
Manto (does he really live?),

"I challenge tahir and the entire furry-haired brigade to provide one rational verifiable piece of evidence anywhere that shows that Ahmadis/Quadianis are a "British creation"."

For how many decades have you been asleep? I won't put my foot over this Q-trap this time as I've said enough already long ago. You do a good job of provoking one into a uselss discussion; do you have a British passport? Once the Q-types are done licking their wounds, I might get the axe out again.

To begin with, read:

The Ahmadiyya Movement (British-Jewish Connection) by Bashir Ahmad.

Then come back here for more.

Are you a 'Q-type'?