It's Yet Another Pakistani Nuclear Anniversary Today

Goldfinger #419 true about Ahmed Shah Bereilly. but he was not the "original demon" - there was a flock of the same demons who opposed with their usual fatwas of "kafir" attempts by Sir Syeds at getting muslims to stick their heads out of the sand and get education. Lesser known, but equally prevalent, were the mullahs of the middle east - from the ones who chased ibn sina out of town to the mullahs of istanbul who opposed the abolishment of slavery in the mid-19th century in the Ottoman empire, saying this was a trick by the British against Islam.

Then there were the mullah clowns of early 20th century India - the Maulana Ali brothers, one of whom spent 4 years in jail for preaching for the retention of the king, aka caliphate, as well as other "aalims" like Hasrat Mohani and Maulana Abul Kalam Azad. While heroes to muslims at that time, and even to many muslims even today - time has shown these "aalims" to be total ignoramus's even on the very issue they talked so loudly about - i.e., unkown to these fools, the Turks themselves decided that they had had enough of the corrupt Caliphate and got rid of it.

As time has passed, it has also become clear that it was the Brits - who transformed India into a democracy by introducing proper education and democratic institutions like a written Constitution with checks and balances and grooming a middle class that gave rise to the great Indian political leaders like Nehru. And these "aalims" of the Indian muslims were dead wrong in supporting the Caliphate.

And today - the taliban are the fringe group calling for a "muslim caliphate" while the vast majority of Pakistanis have rejected autocracy and embraced democracy and basic rights. As they say - the fool ultimately does the same thing as the wise man, but only much later and after incurring much greater cost by learning the hard way. So today, only the most primitive and the most ignorant are saying what the "aalim faazils" were saying a century ago in the "muslim world".

Maintaining an army is not a luxury a democratic and poor country can afford. India has had to upgrade its defence preparedness since it faces two adversaries who have already attacked it before.
If the Chinese return Aksai Chin and Pakistan withdraws from Kashmir occupied by it, India would definitely scale down its force levels.

I have talked about generally accepted development models of economies.

Indonesia is not even discussed / taught as a model of economic development whereas the others are, at least while I was studying in earli 90s. I do not know much about Indonesia.

I know Pakistan and South Korea were mentioned, but BiGE (Big Government and Economies class) Professor dropped Pakistan, if I remember correctly because its growth lacked value creation and was not export oriented in late 50s - early 60s, and late 90s spurt was due to consumerism.

India was not been discussed, and till early 90s data was not regarded as reliable and hence ignored. Chinese data was also suspect, but China is being discussed only lately as the model for economic development.

Even today there is no consensus among all economists that Indian economy can grow into regional of world economy, if region is beyond South Asia. Historically too, Chinese and Indian economies were complementary to each other and rarely competed with each other for markets in Europe.

50% of India's GDP (in 90s, may be more now for some states) is controlled at the state level. This 505 is not easy to reform. This includes power generation, and surface transport. Apparently nuclear power will be separate and not at state level. That is why there is uneven growth, Gujrat on one hand at W. Bengal on the other. It is the economic success (hardly because of Modi) that keeps him in power. Inter state commerce generates revenues for states who are reluctant to simplify.

Re: # 421

Taiwan is too small, and it was mainly propped up by US against mainland China, even given a perm seat on UN Security Council that was a joke. ASEAN, with Indonesia, is closer in terms of size, poverty and agrarian roots of the subcontinent.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Re: # 420
Thanks Pew,

I have read the book and written a blog post about it last year.

Here's the part I like about it:

If the Asians can manage their relations peacefully, it will not only help China make a successful transition to the world's great superpower, but a strong Indian performance might succeed in lifting people out of poverty throughout the whole subcontinent, including Pakistan and Bangladesh. The self-confidence that such an outcome would foster would make it easier for the three main powers (China, India, Japan) to work together and, with the rest of Asia, to create a true single economy along the lines of the European Union.

But my own thinking is that there is too much mistrust among Asians, and too many forces arrayed against Asian Union, most of all the United States and Europe.

BTW, Prof Aggarwal of Berkeley is a strong advocate of Asian Union, by making SAARC and ASEAN more effective and then combining the two. I like the idea, but again, given the SAARC experience, I have low hopes for it.

Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Re: # 415

Masadi:

You have no knowledge, all you have is rhetorics and nonsense. Your brain is fried from 7th century and Mills, so you cannot even learn. You imagine and brag (4 year funding for Ph.D. at Univ. of Edinburgh - where Ph.D.'s are completed in three), if that does not work then you abuse.

Re: # 416

Taiwan and Korea both had repressive dictators. Korea the development are through five large corporations, whereas in Taiwan it was more entrepreneurial.

Re: # 416

Riaz:

ASEAN model is the same as Taiwan model.

Re: # 399 Riaz

Check out this book:

"Rivals: How the Power Struggle Between China, India, and Japan Will Shape Our Next Decade" by Bill Emmott

Re: # 361

tahmed...well said...however your statement: "our military has turned the taliban from "unbeatable warriors" whom even Britain when it was a world power could not beat (as rogue generals like hamid gul never tired of reminding us) in the 19th century, nor the world superpower soviet union in the 20th..." needs a slight correction...this bearded scourge is only a 20th century manifestation...they did not exist in the times when the Brits were haggled by Afghans in the 19th century...of course during the 1800's a fore-runner of these bearded fanatics had ascended upon the people of the Northwest from the Indian city of Bareilly under the leadership of a Maulana Ahmed Shah Bareilly whom the people tolerated for a while, but when he started becoming a nuisance to them like his present day reincarnation the bearded demons, on a preset signal of a fire on a hill, all the people rose against him as one, and he had to run away with with a handful of his followers. He and his followers were killed by the Sikhs near Balakot, Hazara, in a last desperate battle. Thus came to an end the very brief first incarnation of the Reign of The Bearded Demons.

President Obama Zindabad!!
Pakistan Zindabad!!
USA Paindabad!!

Masadi Murdabad!!
Masadi, the Peon of the Taliban, Murdabad!!

#415 hmmmmm...masadi was so furiously red-flagging my posts he flagged his own post as well. Could this be considered a case of friendly fire??

Re: # 410
You forgot my preferred development model: The ASEAN model, which is closer to home. Powerful and benevolent, and sometimes repressive, executive that pushes the human development forward, and brushes aside all obstacles in its path. In the end, you lose a few people who challenge the strongmen, which is regrettable, but you save many more millions that would have otherwise died from poverty, hunger and disease.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Anil writes "There is just no short cut."

Yes there is, throw your computer away and don't waste our time with this BS. Tell that to Obama who just in a few days sunk $20 B of the public's money when GM declared bankruptcy, and then he wants to put $30B more into a negative net worth company, tell that to him, he and his corporate sponsors think that fleecing the public to resuscitate failing capitalism is a 'short cut' to success...

TNITC masadi

a red flag? that friendly advice bothered you, Comrade Mersadis??? OK, keep foaming then. Just dont say no one told you when your keyboard goes dead - then you will have nothing left to live for.

masadi #411 dont go commie on me, Comrade Mersedis.