Martyred for Speaking Out Against the Taliban

Re: # 49

TehsinA

How can we give up what we have not? Pakistan was created as a result of the political (not an Islamic one) movement of Political Muslims of India who wanted to have a separate homeland for the Muslims (of the Muslim majority areas of India, of course). The sectarianized, divisive 'deene fassad', called Islam by the Mullah, was never an issue at all for the Muslims who struggled for Pakistan. It is this 'Zarraari' deene mullah which we must discard to save the Muslims and their homeland.

Your yahodi and saudi pitthoo land cruiser molvies and taliban has exposed now.
you can't cover them with your false propaganda.
If this is america war,than tell me how many American did taliban killed in Pakistan so far????

This is yahodi made conspiracy who has switched the suicide attacks from their region to Pakistan,Afghanistan and Iraq.

Your propaganda game is over.

Billion dollars of funding to Taliban is going to be Unveil

#52 Posted by seekers14

They may be loosing for now but in the end they will be victorious because they are true Muslims unlike the Amrikan pithoo army, the enlightened moderation crowd or the sarkari maulvis who in their hearts know where the truth lies. You can never be an effective fighter if you are not convinced in the veracity of your cause. So the choice is quite clear either you say, hey! I am for humanity and if this barbarism is Islam then I don’t want any part of it otherwise get ready to be mowed down because the other side does not take prisoners only slaves.

Re: # 51
taliban commanders are now fleeing with sh...ing in their own Capri shalwars.
sooner they would join their suicide attackers in hell.

#50 Posted by seekers14


No Sir! This is the Islam of Allah and Rasool Allah and imposed by talwar (kalashinikov) but cowards do not have the guts to accept it for what it is. They start shi…ing in their pants and in the end will be slaughtered like docile lambs.

No more exploitation! This is not Islam which are imposing on Kalashnikov by Taliban: coward suicide attacks,destroying schools,cutting throats,punishing women.......
This is their own made islam ,not ISLAM of Allah and Rasool Allah(SAWW).
I have never had accepted this taliban made fake islam,so their is no question about give up.
Yes! Pakistan want to get rid these savage taliban to save both Islam and Pakistan.

#48 Posted by seekers14

Question: Are you ready to give up Islam to save Pakistan?

Re: # 11
Naqshbandi! Your advice is need of time but can't be implement because of saudi sponsor of 12000 whabi madresa out of total 17000 madersa(of all sects madersa) in punjab only.
Taliban paid supporters are doing their job in all important postions.They keep them alive in society with all available tools.But table has turned after failure of "Nizamae Adal" agreement due to violated acts of taliban and expose of their "islamic saharia".
These paid people are now going out of picture,but some shameful persons like imran khan still sticking on his foolish idealogy.
These people are surrounding us in ulema,politices,media,govt.departments and amazingly in Law and order Forces too.
Journalist and ulma soo are worst of them who are doing brain washing of nation and keep justifying the suicide attacks and coward attacks of terrorism by taliban.
Nobody has notice that taliban and their religious allies is doing target killing and suicide attacks against Shia for last Two decades.Thousand of shias people and ulema has been martyr by this savage taliban.
Certianly all madersa of deobandi are grass roots of terrorism because they taught that every other Muslim sect is mushrik and must be killed.
Billions of dollars is spending on this big game of terrorism but time is come when Nation should awake and strongly protest and stop this conspiracy.
This is the Last chance!

Pakistan's corrupt pro-western social and fouji elite spare no occassion to insult and degrade the self-respect of the common citizen of Pakistan. Mufti Naeemi chose to die protecting this system that degrades and insults human being as a natural and only way of life.

THE NEWS: Updated at: 1615 PST, Saturday, June 20, 2009 ISLAMABAD: Mismanagement marred the walk-in interviews for the recruitment of school teachers organized by Federal Directorate of Education Islamabad.

The process of walk-in interview was adopted for the recruitment of school teachers this time as a result of which, thousands of women candidates reached at FG Girls Model School G-9 III.

The officials of federal directorate threw forms from upper storey on the candidates that created rumpus among the crowd. Ladies police carried out baton-charge to control the crowd as officials of directorate flee from the scene.

Women candidates blamed directorate officials for issuing forms after taking bribe. When contacted, DG Federal Directorate of Education told Geo News that local candidates came for interview should return to their homes and forms will be issue from interview centers within two to three days.

#45 Posted by malikrashid

The only reason I was avoiding a conversation on religion ‘about mazhab’, about how you achieve salvation here was to restrict the agenda here. A broad subject like this could be free wielded into anything and I wanted the focus to remain on political Islam which is what Pakistan is suffering from the most today. But, you are absolutely right a conversation on religion is absolutely essential if we wish to have an unfettered debate on Islam. Like I said, I am not avoiding that just postponing it to another board that is all.

This board is almost done so although I would have liked to move our discussion to your article on front page but maybe a more appropriate board for this conversation would be “Science and Enlightenment, East and West�. We could continue there if you like.

Re: # 44
"I am not calling for a religious state, just for an unfettered debate on Islam,"
A debate on Islam means a debate on religion or a debate on politics. Pl. refer to your interact#36 where you avoided a conversation on religion. You wrote:
"the discussion here is about political Islam. The organization of a Muslim polity, of how a Muslim state should function, its economy, its politics etc."

I am not calling for a religious state, just for an unfettered debate on Islam, so that once and for all we determine what is good, what is right, what should be followed and what needs to be discarded. This is essential to avoid cycles of orthodoxy and liberality. That’s all.

Re: # 42
Dear TehsinA
I think you are saying that there should be a religious state but it should not chop hands. The necessity of imposing religion arises for moral and legal functions, you said.
Legislation is something that is temporal and necessitated by circumstance. Wearing seat-belt is a law because many people ride cars. Religion could not change anything there.
Is it necessary to impose religion to build moral character? Is it blasphemy to encourage all sources of moral correctness? Like other religions and non-religious sources starting from education to psychiatric well-being.
Would religion could safely survive if it is dealt as an individual affair rather being administerd by the state?
Respect. Thanks.

#39 Posted by malikrashid

“Should there be a religious state?�

Isn’t that a debate worth having? It has profound consequences and the whole nation if not the whole Ummah needs to participate in it. Khilafat is a uniquely Muslim phenomenon and the basis of a Muslim state. For a state like Pakistan whose basis is Islam it is even weightier. Should Shariat be the law of the land, should the economy be based on banking which is ribaa or should their be graven images like what modern media is all about. Can harming somebody (like chopping of ones hand) no matter what their crime is called justice?The main purpose of justice is to help people be the best they can be. Justice is what a father wants for his children. No matter how bad his kids may be, his intent always remains to do whatever is best for them. These are all questions that need resolution once and for all.

The thing is that no art, science or sport can develop to its fullest if the best and brightest do not feel that they have legal and moral sanction for their pursuits. It is extremely important that they feel that what they are doing is good and righteous, in fact they should feel that they are doing God’s work because in its essence all work is prayer.

Naqsh,

Are you suggesting that your ullema do not support religious hatred and violence? What are their views on blasphemy, apostasy, and adultery? What about their views on Ahmadis and Mirza Sahib??

You used to insist that blasphemers should be executed, period. You cited works of esteemed islamic scholars (Qazi Ayad?) in support. Also, you have repeatedly made derogatory comments about Mirza Sahib and Ahmadis. Are you now trying to disown your past??

You and your ullema have supported religious hatred and violence … and are now getting burnt by the fire they started. Re-read #38 with a clear head.

ahle sunnat ulama never supported the taliban.
it was--and is--a purely deobandi-wahabi phenomenon.

Re: # 36
Should there be a religious state?

Urstruly (#35), thanks for making your views clear, once again.

Naqsh, your problem is your own brother Urstruly here. Your ullema facilitated the rise of taliban by condoning religious hatred and violence. And now this violence has come full circle to haunt your ullema. You can’t simply disown your past and claim innocence.

Tahir miaN, stop worrying about qadiyyanis. You should first get your own house in order before pushing mirzai conspiracy theories ...

#35 Posted by Urstruly

“to protect the system in Pakistan that feeds on human life, blood, and dignity�

Arey Sahib! You are giving too much credit to Pakistanis for having created this system. The system was created in the latter part of the reign of Khulfa e Rahidun and remains in effect in every Islamic state today. Come on! We could explore further depths of degradation. How about fratricide, when it was declared the LAW in the Ottoman Empire, that the Sultan had the right to kill any relative who may pose a threat to his ability to retain the crown.

Just think about it, what sort of justice would you expect from someone who murdered, his father, mother, brothers, brothers in law, sons, nephews etc. They didn’t even remain loyal to their race most of them were white because their mothers were all white and over the generations they had very little Ottoman blood left in them. These were our heroes who got us Constantinople, and Serbia and would have taken over Vienna, but there is a God who prevented triumph of tyranny, to let hope stay alive, to give us life and human dignity which you in the end opted for yourself. So stop kicking the hand that feeds you and started licking it like the rest of us.

#34 Posted by malikrashid

This article you referred to is about Sufism. It is about fana fil arz. A philosophy developed in conquered lands by people who tried to bring semblances of their previous religious and philosophical traditions into Islam.

I do not wish to discuss here whether Sufism is Islamic or not, that could be a debate for another board but the discussion here is about political Islam. The organization of a Muslim polity, of how a Muslim state should function, its economy, its politics etc. that is what we are discussing here. Please don’t turn it into a debate over how we achieve salvation.

I do not know much about Mufti Naeemi, therefore, I will refrain from speculating on the reasons why he switched his sides. But regardless of whether he changed his sides because of the prospects of getting a part of $1.5 billion annual bllod money or because a new revelation dawned on him on definition of Islam, the fact remains that it was his own vhice to go over to the side of Dajjal. It was his choice to become the foot soldier of Dajjal. He was the one who chose to protect the system in Pakistan that feeds on human life, blood, and dignity. It is that system that has snatched basic human dignity and self respect from Pakistan. It is that system which has turned Pakistanis into pye dogs who are kicked around by everybody in this world and yet they don't hesitate to lick the hands that feed them. It is that system which has stolen the dream of a better Pakistan from Pakistanis and has forced them to accept corruption, complacency, and indignity as the only way of life. It is that system that has made Pakistanis lose faith in Allah and themselves and forced them to prostrate before the worst of human beings. As sad as Naeemis death may be as a human being, but that is what he chose. It was his choice to join hundereds and thousands of those cowards and compliant wretched souls who have no courage to change this cruel and oppressive system, even when they have the chance. He chose to be the foot soldier of this cruel system that flourisehs by the massacre of Muslims and human beings. He chose to live by sword, so he died with sword. No one dare cry for him.

http://www.muslimcanadiancongress.org/20060612.html
THE POVERTY OF FANATICISM
Please follow the above thread to enlighten yourself on Islam. Religion cultures the Ruh(spirit) and Nafs(self), therefore it is called Mazhab, as in Tehzeeb. Barbarism by definition is opposite of religion. Munazra(debate) could be conducted between peaceful humans looking to find the truth of a matter.

#32 Posted by tahir

I would like to answer your whole post and not dodge any of the points you have made.

“How, by slaughtering who they think deserve to be butchered in a way that even Muslims wouldn't follow for sacrificial animals?�

So I guess a daisy cutter, or a drone from afar or an artillery shell lobbed over a mile is perhaps more humane way of killing. Just because you don’t become so upclose and personal with your victims does not take away from the barbarity of your act. Being swayed by u tube images hardly qualifies a mature approach.

“What have these hill-billies achieved in terms of education, inventions, science, or to serve pure and simple Islam?�

These hill-billies are exactly the same in the tradition of the Khulfa e Rahidun, who conquered for Hadrat Umar Farooq the vast khilafat that he ruled over. It was the greatest empire that the Muslims established in hisory. Yes sir! And it was the same hill-billies who gave the ummah the power and the strength so that it was possible for education, inventions and science to germinate in Muslim lands.


“Take a vote, how many dozen people in Pakistan want the Tall-eban brand of Islam?�

Vote is nothing more then popular opinion at a particular time, which could be entirely wrong. Look what happened in America in 2003 everyone was in favor of attacking Iraq, everybody in the world (including Russia) were convinced that Iraq had WMDs. A few months later everybody was against the war in Iraq. So this barometer is entirely devoid of any objectivity.


“Throughout history these fighters have been used--after getting paid of course.�

Yes they have been used exactly the same way. The beduin who joined Umar’s armies was not going out to spread Islam or any such esoteric ideal. He was going out on campaign to get maal e ghanimah. “Agar jeet gaye tau ghazi aur agar mur gayee tau shaheed� has been a potent formula for success from day one.

More over they have not done anything that could be construed against sharia.

Re: # 26
"The Taliban are sacrificing their lives in their cause to establish Sharia in Pakistan"

How, by slaughtering who they think deserve to be butchered in a way that even Muslims wouldn't follow for sacrificial animals?

What have these hill-billies achieved in terms of education, inventions, science, or to serve pure and simple Islam?

Take a vote, how many dozen people in Pakistan want the Tall-eban brand of Islam?

Throughout history these fighters have been used--after getting paid of course.

Naqsh miaN,

You are trying to have it both ways.

If aqaids are the issue, feel free to tell us what Ahmadi aqaids do you find repugnant. I recall you making derogatory comments, repeatedly and vehemently, about Ahmadis as well as Mirza Sahib. What did I miss …??

Furthermore, your own aqaids condone hateful violence. Go back and review your comments on why blasphemers should be executed. What about apostates and adulterers? Feel free to share with us your aqaids.

Your own brother Urstruly has turned on you and fully supports the Taliban. Is he no longer your brother in faith? Did something happen on the way to heaven??

Feel free to comment. It seems you are trying to have it both ways and, as punishment, should be forced to have sex with Madeline Albright …

#29

Naqshbandi Sahib:

Leaving labels aside, which of their aqaids are you calling unIslamic?

Tehsin,

Do you know the horrendous aqaid of the Taliban who are Deobandis and or Ahle Hadith?

In addition to #21

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20096\18\story_18-6-2009_p g7_5

Between breaks in their memorisation, a cluster of students at the Jamia Naeemia said suicide attacks were un-Islamic. But several said they also hoped to die for Islam.

Regards

What do the Beards say now?

http://www.chowk.com/ilogs/72452/30139

Naqshbandi:

“The Taliban are not Muslims. It was about time someone had the guts to say so.�

What bold faced liars and hypocrites you and your ilk really are. Just because you feel embarrassed by Taliban action today you have the temarity to change the definition of what it means to be a Muslim. Shame on you, and shame on those like you spineless worms. The definition of Muslim is simple, direct and unchanging, which has been there from day one and will continue to remain so till eternity despite your munafiqats. Muslim is anybody who recites the kalima bears witness in the unity of God and Muhammad being his prophet. All that is required is that he believes it in his heart.

The Taliban are sacrificing their lives in their cause to establish Sharia in Pakistan and you and the sarkari maulvis call them non Muslims. Of course they should blow all of you up, because you have no clue as to who a Muslim is.

Naqsh,

Martyr has positive connotation in Islam. Why bother if he's martyred? Tell us if he's assassinated.

"The reality is the real ulema of Haqq have been anti Taliban since the beginning. '

The question is who is goiong to decide who are the real Ulema??

Is there going to be a voting for that??

In Islamic duel it is the sword that decides the "truth' of some one's message and interpretation!!

If Mehsud wins the war through his terror - he would only be emulating the Prophet who declared victory of his message by killing the mushriques and munafiques!!

each fatwa has its own context and cannot be compared to another or in isolation.

those who are anti-Islam will always find an excuse to have a go at the 'mullahs'. People first complained that the ulema were not raising their voices against the Taliban and now when someone gives their life in the anti-Taliban cause jokers and islam haters like teshah still criticise.

Nevertheless people like Naeemi Sahib -alayhi rahmah--do it only for the pleasure of ALLAH and the good of Islam and want no worldly reward.

The reality is the real ulema of Haqq have been anti Taliban since the beginning.

Ahmadies would be laughing indeed finding them grouped with the Taliban terrorists. What a joke these beards are!

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@KHYBER,
some people are so out of touch. For example KHYBER, the defeat of Mousavi in Iran is akin to defeat of BJP in India. All the urban middle classes were shocked but the defeat was handed by rural and lower income masses which BJP as well as Mousavi ignored....

@Naqshbandi Sb,
Sometimes we act so naively in our rift of Barelvis and Deobandis. Naeemi sb was on record saying that US is behind these so called Talibans. Secondly he said that where is the evidence that a certain attack was carried out by Taliban. Just because you receive a call, does not mean the person on the other side is telling the truth.

I am going to miss logical Naeemi sb but in mourners he left behind naive people.

You know he and his ilk are responsible for coultless death of innocent Hindu and Skih people in contemporary Pakistan and Bangladesh it boils my blood to see that these guys have any pleasure in their life. The nation that was built on innocent deaths should be destroyed if there is any allah ordained justice in this world.

Those who live by the sword die by the sword. When some mullahs got together and outlawed suicide bombing a few years ago, this man protested saying that the move would benefit enemies of Islam like India and the US. Ironically, but deservedly, this man has now fallen victim to the very suicide bombing which he was defending not too many years ago.

"I believe that was the last straw and led to the Istihkam e Pakistan conference. If we analyse what was said it is significant:

1. The Taliban are not Muslims. It was about time someone had the guts to say so.
2. The Army's action is a jihad. This point was emphasised.
This means, in Sunni jurisprudential language--and remember it was leading Sunni jurisprudents who said this-- it is the religious duty of every Muslim to fight againt these Taliban.
3. There status under Islamic Law is that of 'baaghis' (rebels against the Islamic State) and so fighting them is justified.

The implications could be profound."

Yes, it means that Islam is cannibalizing itself now!!

I'm praying to Allah to let Talibs and Jamatis take over Pakistan especially for the living pleasures of the mohajirs. So help me god.

Re: # 14malik..good point,thats what i was thinking,the problem is no one did anything when these criminals were growing strong and challenging state writ.
http://pukhtunkhwatimes.blogspot.com/

We learnt of the tragic terrorist incident on TV and read about it. Could you please enlighten us about Mawlana Naeemi's political views? Did he support imposing of Islamic sharia in Pakistan? Thanks.

I am Proud of the people of Iran......they did not stand back and allow the stealing of an election to go unchallenged,same thing people in Pakistan should do,to be united and stand together against thugs,criminals,killer Taliban.
http://pukhtunkhwatimes.blogspot.com/

Kawish-- coming together is nice in theory but how do you come together with people who think you are a kaafir if you have a different view of islam than them and who are willing to even do suicide bombs inside mosques and other holy places?!

Well,you need to be tough with rebels (baaghis).

I think the government should go further and close down forcibly ALL Deobandi/Salafi/Ahle-Hadith/Jamaat Islami madrassahs too which preach this extremist and heterodox branch of Islam (except for the Tablighis who, though Deobandis too, are moderate and more focused on self-improvement.)

Wow!...that was one tough article!...I wish we could all just throw away our differences and come together. About the Talibans not being Muslims, I think that is a bit risky, but by and all terrorism and coercion are strangers to basic Islam. And basic Islam is basically to love thy neighbour and tolerate differences of opinion, while refraining from harsh language and slander. Both of which our society as a whole cant practise.

Naqshbandi sahib
Sorry about that, its my error that I misconstrued your writing, reading over againg I got it this time around.
Hope you will forego my oversight.

interesting

r786,

I don't know. Though they have always been opposed to the Taliban strain of Islam, I think that the shock of the Taliban takeover of Swat and then the continuous attacks finally forced their hand. Sunni ulama generally are not involved in politics.

Zaman sahib, if you read my article carefully I didn't say that the martyrdom wasn't reported I said the Istihkam e Pakistan Conference in which the anti-Taliban comments were made wasn't reported widely.

Janab-e Naqshbandi sahib
It seems that you are not familiar with the media of Pakistan be it English or Urdu,
A learned person of your stature should at the least take their time to research about what you intend to write on.

"An amazing event happened earlier this month in Rawalpindi, Pakistan yet it was glossed over by the Urdu media and not mentioned at all in the English media in Pakistan"

Introduction of above brings about an altogether different innuendo to surface, An educated scholar of Dr. Naeemi's level would not even care if his name receives the respecitve honorable mention in the media or not, while it is not quite that easy to replace a martyred scholar just like this, while tossing around other agendas in the cover of one's condolence is the most inappropriate and lowest of all acts.
Only one of the Pak media that operates both in English & Urdu has published some thing pertaining Dr. Naeemi's demise more than 20 times while links to this limited selection appears below.
Not sure what else you may be seeking from the media.
The bottom line is that a sholar of the honor & intellect of Dr. Naeemi would never have complained or protested so for the lack of coverage should this have been the case in real, while the importance of recognizing the vacuum created by his demise remains in the same proportion regardless.

All of the following links lead to coverage of one type or another pertinent to Dr. Naeemi's martyrdom while it all is only from one single media source that shares it's publication in print and electronically and in both English as well as Urdu. Not sure how you could have missed all this and more?



www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=182986

www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=183108

www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=182776

www.thenews.com.pk/daily_de tail.asp?id=182753

www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=22712

www.th enews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=80539

www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=1827 78

www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=182791

www.thenews.com.pk/daily_ detail.asp?id=182871

www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=80393

www.thenews.com.pk/news.asp?cat_i d=5&page=2

www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=182888

www.thenews.com.pk/updates. asp?id=80384

www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=22748

www.thenews.com.pk/news.asp?cat_id=5

www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.as p?Id=22723

www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=22759

www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=80434

www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.a sp?id=182766

www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=183107

www.thenews.com .pk/print1.asp?id=183106

www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=183089

www.thene ws.com.pk/print1.asp?id=182898

www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=182757



www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=182884

www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=80542

www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id =80186

www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=80185

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What do the Beards say now?

http://www.chowk.com/ilogs/72452/30139

Dear Asif Sahib

Why did the moderate Barelvis wait for so long to react?