Hindu Mathematics – How Original Was It?
Pervez Hoodbhoy June 15, 2009
#249 Posted by Goldfinger on June 17, 2009 8:50:13 pm
Re: # 248
harish...I'm not telling you that all Hindus are demonic...I'm just saying that everything is not perfect even in India vis a vis your statement that the mistreatment that was doled out to Dr. Salam because of his religious differences with the junta of the time in Pak could never ever happen in India...my response was that if government orchestrated pogroms could be undertaken by elected officials who are still in power in India, everything was possible...just wanted to say that great problems exist even in India which need to be taken care of before many of your country men could sit on their high horse and point fingers at their neighbors...while I say this I know that Pakis bowl is full to the brim with worms of sundry character, and that we too can not point fingers at any one. It is quite stupid for each to say that you have such and such problems when we all miss three of our own fingers pointing at ourserlves. Have a good day.
harish...I'm not telling you that all Hindus are demonic...I'm just saying that everything is not perfect even in India vis a vis your statement that the mistreatment that was doled out to Dr. Salam because of his religious differences with the junta of the time in Pak could never ever happen in India...my response was that if government orchestrated pogroms could be undertaken by elected officials who are still in power in India, everything was possible...just wanted to say that great problems exist even in India which need to be taken care of before many of your country men could sit on their high horse and point fingers at their neighbors...while I say this I know that Pakis bowl is full to the brim with worms of sundry character, and that we too can not point fingers at any one. It is quite stupid for each to say that you have such and such problems when we all miss three of our own fingers pointing at ourserlves. Have a good day.
reply to this interact
write a new interact
add to favorites
flag objectionable content
#248 Posted by harish_hyd on June 17, 2009 6:54:24 pm
#172 by Goldfinger
...however since there is such a huge population of the Muslim minority in India it goes to their credit that a very few talented ones do manage to rise to the top...I have heard that during times when political tensions between the stupid ones of indo-Pak rise, people like Dilip Kumar etc are threatened with dire consequences...generally the Muslims, the former rulers of India, now rank even below the so-called lowest castes...and they say they live their lives in sort of fear and try to conform to a sort of politically correct behaviour...thus how many more talented must be going by the wayside?
GF yaar, you're only seeing what you want to see. If Hindus were as demonic as you imply they are, couldn't Hindus have stopped the Muslim population from growing to what it is, either through forced conversions or simply eliminating them (as has happened in Pakistan)? And if indeed Muslims are so oppressed as you think they are, wouldn't they have resorted to taking up arms against the state as has happened in several countries where Muslims are a far smaller minority than they are in India?
Yes, Muslims are threatened by Hindu rioters when violence occurs, but believe me, I live in Hyderabad, one of the most communally sensitive cities in India and I've seen several Hindu families who shift base to calmer areas when violence occurs because they were threatened by Muslim rioters, so its not as one sided as you seem to believe.
...however since there is such a huge population of the Muslim minority in India it goes to their credit that a very few talented ones do manage to rise to the top...I have heard that during times when political tensions between the stupid ones of indo-Pak rise, people like Dilip Kumar etc are threatened with dire consequences...generally the Muslims, the former rulers of India, now rank even below the so-called lowest castes...and they say they live their lives in sort of fear and try to conform to a sort of politically correct behaviour...thus how many more talented must be going by the wayside?
GF yaar, you're only seeing what you want to see. If Hindus were as demonic as you imply they are, couldn't Hindus have stopped the Muslim population from growing to what it is, either through forced conversions or simply eliminating them (as has happened in Pakistan)? And if indeed Muslims are so oppressed as you think they are, wouldn't they have resorted to taking up arms against the state as has happened in several countries where Muslims are a far smaller minority than they are in India?
Yes, Muslims are threatened by Hindu rioters when violence occurs, but believe me, I live in Hyderabad, one of the most communally sensitive cities in India and I've seen several Hindu families who shift base to calmer areas when violence occurs because they were threatened by Muslim rioters, so its not as one sided as you seem to believe.
#247 Posted by Goldfinger on June 17, 2009 6:25:24 pm
Re: # 234
major,
you are coming up with shameful excuses and trying to justify the wanton murder of some of your "Shining India's" mammoth minorities...some of your elected leaders are murdering thugs who with government connivance orchestrated ethnic cleansing, loot, arson and plunder...and who are still ruling the roost...what is more outrageous than that? Meanwhile the Pak Army is doing a great job, and the local people are helping it in the shape of armed posses, in rooting out the criminals in the Frontier...criminals are now on the run...meanwhile peruse the following to be able to see the mirror:
/india-facts.com/news/20090108127/atrocities-on-kashmiris-a-catalogue/
Ra pe and Molestation of Women
Presently, the situation in Kashmir, according to international organiasations & global media has not changed yet very much. It is still alarming and sparking flames in South Asia, that more then seven hundred thousand Indian army deployed in a small 40 -80 square miles area is the heaviest concentration in human history, and its all without any moral, political and legal code. 92 thousand Kashmiris have been killed by the Indian army in 17 years.
Since January 1989 to April 30, 2007:
Total killing. 91,865
Custodial Killing 6,899
Women gang raped & Molested 9,708
Civilian arrested 113,798
Structures arsoned /Destroyed 105,353
Children orphaned 106,930
Women widowed 22,530
The International NGO’s Amnesty International, Human rights watch, Asia watch, Red Cross, Medicine sans frontier and others are not allowed to visit Kashmir. Torture is widespread, particularly in the temporary detention centres; methods of torture include electric shock, prolonged beatings and sexual molestation of innocent women.
Kashmir is a disputed territory. Presently, the ceasefire line between the forces of India and Pakistan has divided Kashmir into two parts. One part is under Indian occupation: this comprises 63% of the whole territory and includes the Vale; it has a population 7.5 million. The other part, with approximately 3 million people, includes Azad Kashmir and the Northern region of Gilgit and Baltistan and is administered by Pakistan. About 1.5 million Kashmiris are refugees in Pakistan, some 400,000 live in Britain, and about 250,000 are scattered around the world. The present arbitrary bifurcation of Kashmir has resulted in the division of thousands of Kashmiri families.
Kashmiris living there have no life safety and human honour. Women are degraded and humiliated, almost 10 thousands women are raped; not only adult women but even eight year old girls are victimised.
Since the Indian government crackdown against Kashmiris in the disputed territory of Kashmir began in earnest in January 1990, security forces and Indian army have used rape as a weapon: to punish, intimidate, coerce, humiliate and degrade. Rape by Indian security forces most often occurs during crackdowns, cordon-and-search operations during which men are held for identification in parks or schoolyards while security forces search their homes. In these situations, the security forces frequently engage in collective punishment against the civilian population by assaulting residents and burning their homes. Rape is used as a means of targeting women to punish and humiliate the entire community. Rape has also occurred frequently during reprisal attacks on civilians. In many of these attacks, the selection of victims is seemingly arbitrary and the women, like other civilians assaulted or killed, are targeted simply because they happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Women who are the victims of rape are often stigmatised, and their testimony and integrity impugned. Social attitudes which cast the woman, and not her attacker, as the guilty party pervade the judiciary, making rape cases difficult to prosecute and leaving women unwilling to press charges.
Government authorities have failed to bring the culprits on record. The normal trend of the Government during these years is to hide the atrocities committed by the Indian armed and paramilitary forces in order to dodge the Amnesty International and the world Human Rights Organization.
Various NGOs and human rights organisations are working for feminism and other civil & social rights, but in my opinion no satisfied work regarding Kashmiri women’s safety and modesty. Women and Children are the victim of the worst human rights violations in this area of armed conflicts and ethnic war. It is crystal clear that sexual violence, which was used to subjugate and destroy a people as a form of ethnic cleansing, was an abhorrent and heinous war crime. These persistent and gross abuses, flagrant denials of the human rights of women and their right to life itself, demanded an urgent response from international human rights bodies.
According to data maintained by a media portal of United Kingdom (UK) on reported cases of rape and molestation in which security forces were allegedly involved, nearly 500 women were raped in various parts of Jammu and Kashmir between1990-1994. Media portal maintains that it has compiled the reports from what was reported by state media. The portal maintains that non-governmental organisations (NGO) hardly took interest in documenting the plight of these silent sufferers of Jammu and Kashmir.
According to a 1994 United Nations publication from 1990 to 1996, 882 women were reportedly gang-raped by security forces in Jammu and Kashmir. But Social Stigma associated with word “Rape� has made work of human rights and women NGOs cumbersome. They say that women are reluctant to come forward. Extra Judicial killings, rapes, custodial killings, kidnappings, burning of houses by Indian security forces within IHK remain a common practice. The whole IHK has risen against the Indian Army and the Armed Forces Special Powers Act AFSPA and POTA that enables the Indian Army to arrest and kill anyone, anytime, anywhere, in a bid to suppress the ongoing Kashmir liberation movement, the Indian authorities have laid a network of torture cells to practice human rights violations. In these torture cells, the worst repressive means such as electric shocks, ironing of sensitive parts of body, are practised against the innocent Kashmiris without caring for the age and health conditions. Besides, the female folk are also taken to these centres where they are reportedly gang-raped for protesting against the Indian brutalities or filing complaints against terrorising of their near and dear ones.
This poverty struck women have nothing to feed their children. Their husbands went missing and they could not even wail over their missing husbands.1000 widows, whose husbands have disappeared but not been proven dead. Their children were killed in front of their eyes and yet they are doing rounds of the government offices to prove that their children were killed in cold blood. The dreaded attack by soldiers and an assault on their honour and body remains in the minds of every woman in Kashmir. The young widows and teenaged orphan girls are facing more problems due to their youth as they are always at danger of getting molested or raped. It is matter of concern that most of the married women face the problem of miscarriages, which is one of the fastest growing problem in the rural and border areas of Kashmir.
These happenings are not confined to Muslims. In the last 16 years the women of Kashmir have had to bear male vengeance in silence and they have been unable to find spare to transcend that. Estimates given by various organisations place widowS between 30 000 to 40 000 and Orphans between 50 000 to 80 000.the raped women are doubly victimised and have to live the rest of their carrying to stamp of stigma in silence.�
The peace process began three years ago between India and Pakistan on Kashmir, and there has been dozens of talks for 60 years, three wars in 1947, 1965 and 1971, thousands of innocent peoples from both sides have been killed. But the end is no where in sight. The United Nations had 6 resolutions passed time to time but justice, and implementation of these resolutions have been delayed.
It is imperative that the United Nations, European Union and Organisation of Islamic Conference and other powers to start the negotiation and mediation with Kashmiri leadership and influential organisations from both sides of Kashmir. Because both countries Pakistan and India have got nuclear capacity because of Kashmir. Political pundits predict cloud of nuclear war is seeing on sky of South Asia clearly. In these difficult circumstances, this dress code edict is simply misplaced, if not a deliberately planted red herring. More pain for the Kashmiri women, thousands of whom have already lost their husbands, sons and loved ones to the bullets and atrocities of the marauding Indian soldiers and many of whom have also fallen victim to sexual defilement.
The European parliament has adopted MEP Emma Nicholson report titled “Kashmir; Present situation and future prospects� on May 25, 2007, by an overwhelming 522 votes in favour to 19 votes against. The report recognised Kashmiris right to self-determination, deploring massive human rights abuses in Jammu & Kashmir, encouraging the Peace process between India and Pakistan and emphasising inclusion of Kashmiris in the Peace process. The Amnesty International released a latest Global report 2007 said in that there is many violence, torture, custodial deaths enforced disappearances and extra-judicial executions continued in Jammu & Kashmir in the year 2006.
Rape in war is not merely a matter of chance nor is it a question of sex. It is rather a question of power and control which is `structured by male soldiers’ notions of their masculine privilege. Kashmir is rising flame, which is increasing speedily. If United Nations, European Union and other world wide NGO’s do not succeeded in finding an acceptable solution with the participation of kashmiris, it will cause disaster for this part of South Asia. World powers and Global Institutions need to understand this burning issue.
The people of Kashmir demand an end to the military occupation of their land. Because they demand what they have been pledged by both India and Pakistan and guaranteed by the United Nations Security Council with the unequivocal endorsement of the United States, demilitrisation of Kashmir and a free plebiscite vote organised impartially.
Every Kashmiri is waiting anxiously for somebody to help attain freedom for them. I am a women so I understand feelings and emotions, inner voice of every Kashmiri woman.
major,
you are coming up with shameful excuses and trying to justify the wanton murder of some of your "Shining India's" mammoth minorities...some of your elected leaders are murdering thugs who with government connivance orchestrated ethnic cleansing, loot, arson and plunder...and who are still ruling the roost...what is more outrageous than that? Meanwhile the Pak Army is doing a great job, and the local people are helping it in the shape of armed posses, in rooting out the criminals in the Frontier...criminals are now on the run...meanwhile peruse the following to be able to see the mirror:
/india-facts.com/news/20090108127/atrocities-on-kashmiris-a-catalogue/
Ra pe and Molestation of Women
Presently, the situation in Kashmir, according to international organiasations & global media has not changed yet very much. It is still alarming and sparking flames in South Asia, that more then seven hundred thousand Indian army deployed in a small 40 -80 square miles area is the heaviest concentration in human history, and its all without any moral, political and legal code. 92 thousand Kashmiris have been killed by the Indian army in 17 years.
Since January 1989 to April 30, 2007:
Total killing. 91,865
Custodial Killing 6,899
Women gang raped & Molested 9,708
Civilian arrested 113,798
Structures arsoned /Destroyed 105,353
Children orphaned 106,930
Women widowed 22,530
The International NGO’s Amnesty International, Human rights watch, Asia watch, Red Cross, Medicine sans frontier and others are not allowed to visit Kashmir. Torture is widespread, particularly in the temporary detention centres; methods of torture include electric shock, prolonged beatings and sexual molestation of innocent women.
Kashmir is a disputed territory. Presently, the ceasefire line between the forces of India and Pakistan has divided Kashmir into two parts. One part is under Indian occupation: this comprises 63% of the whole territory and includes the Vale; it has a population 7.5 million. The other part, with approximately 3 million people, includes Azad Kashmir and the Northern region of Gilgit and Baltistan and is administered by Pakistan. About 1.5 million Kashmiris are refugees in Pakistan, some 400,000 live in Britain, and about 250,000 are scattered around the world. The present arbitrary bifurcation of Kashmir has resulted in the division of thousands of Kashmiri families.
Kashmiris living there have no life safety and human honour. Women are degraded and humiliated, almost 10 thousands women are raped; not only adult women but even eight year old girls are victimised.
Since the Indian government crackdown against Kashmiris in the disputed territory of Kashmir began in earnest in January 1990, security forces and Indian army have used rape as a weapon: to punish, intimidate, coerce, humiliate and degrade. Rape by Indian security forces most often occurs during crackdowns, cordon-and-search operations during which men are held for identification in parks or schoolyards while security forces search their homes. In these situations, the security forces frequently engage in collective punishment against the civilian population by assaulting residents and burning their homes. Rape is used as a means of targeting women to punish and humiliate the entire community. Rape has also occurred frequently during reprisal attacks on civilians. In many of these attacks, the selection of victims is seemingly arbitrary and the women, like other civilians assaulted or killed, are targeted simply because they happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Women who are the victims of rape are often stigmatised, and their testimony and integrity impugned. Social attitudes which cast the woman, and not her attacker, as the guilty party pervade the judiciary, making rape cases difficult to prosecute and leaving women unwilling to press charges.
Government authorities have failed to bring the culprits on record. The normal trend of the Government during these years is to hide the atrocities committed by the Indian armed and paramilitary forces in order to dodge the Amnesty International and the world Human Rights Organization.
Various NGOs and human rights organisations are working for feminism and other civil & social rights, but in my opinion no satisfied work regarding Kashmiri women’s safety and modesty. Women and Children are the victim of the worst human rights violations in this area of armed conflicts and ethnic war. It is crystal clear that sexual violence, which was used to subjugate and destroy a people as a form of ethnic cleansing, was an abhorrent and heinous war crime. These persistent and gross abuses, flagrant denials of the human rights of women and their right to life itself, demanded an urgent response from international human rights bodies.
According to data maintained by a media portal of United Kingdom (UK) on reported cases of rape and molestation in which security forces were allegedly involved, nearly 500 women were raped in various parts of Jammu and Kashmir between1990-1994. Media portal maintains that it has compiled the reports from what was reported by state media. The portal maintains that non-governmental organisations (NGO) hardly took interest in documenting the plight of these silent sufferers of Jammu and Kashmir.
According to a 1994 United Nations publication from 1990 to 1996, 882 women were reportedly gang-raped by security forces in Jammu and Kashmir. But Social Stigma associated with word “Rape� has made work of human rights and women NGOs cumbersome. They say that women are reluctant to come forward. Extra Judicial killings, rapes, custodial killings, kidnappings, burning of houses by Indian security forces within IHK remain a common practice. The whole IHK has risen against the Indian Army and the Armed Forces Special Powers Act AFSPA and POTA that enables the Indian Army to arrest and kill anyone, anytime, anywhere, in a bid to suppress the ongoing Kashmir liberation movement, the Indian authorities have laid a network of torture cells to practice human rights violations. In these torture cells, the worst repressive means such as electric shocks, ironing of sensitive parts of body, are practised against the innocent Kashmiris without caring for the age and health conditions. Besides, the female folk are also taken to these centres where they are reportedly gang-raped for protesting against the Indian brutalities or filing complaints against terrorising of their near and dear ones.
This poverty struck women have nothing to feed their children. Their husbands went missing and they could not even wail over their missing husbands.1000 widows, whose husbands have disappeared but not been proven dead. Their children were killed in front of their eyes and yet they are doing rounds of the government offices to prove that their children were killed in cold blood. The dreaded attack by soldiers and an assault on their honour and body remains in the minds of every woman in Kashmir. The young widows and teenaged orphan girls are facing more problems due to their youth as they are always at danger of getting molested or raped. It is matter of concern that most of the married women face the problem of miscarriages, which is one of the fastest growing problem in the rural and border areas of Kashmir.
These happenings are not confined to Muslims. In the last 16 years the women of Kashmir have had to bear male vengeance in silence and they have been unable to find spare to transcend that. Estimates given by various organisations place widowS between 30 000 to 40 000 and Orphans between 50 000 to 80 000.the raped women are doubly victimised and have to live the rest of their carrying to stamp of stigma in silence.�
The peace process began three years ago between India and Pakistan on Kashmir, and there has been dozens of talks for 60 years, three wars in 1947, 1965 and 1971, thousands of innocent peoples from both sides have been killed. But the end is no where in sight. The United Nations had 6 resolutions passed time to time but justice, and implementation of these resolutions have been delayed.
It is imperative that the United Nations, European Union and Organisation of Islamic Conference and other powers to start the negotiation and mediation with Kashmiri leadership and influential organisations from both sides of Kashmir. Because both countries Pakistan and India have got nuclear capacity because of Kashmir. Political pundits predict cloud of nuclear war is seeing on sky of South Asia clearly. In these difficult circumstances, this dress code edict is simply misplaced, if not a deliberately planted red herring. More pain for the Kashmiri women, thousands of whom have already lost their husbands, sons and loved ones to the bullets and atrocities of the marauding Indian soldiers and many of whom have also fallen victim to sexual defilement.
The European parliament has adopted MEP Emma Nicholson report titled “Kashmir; Present situation and future prospects� on May 25, 2007, by an overwhelming 522 votes in favour to 19 votes against. The report recognised Kashmiris right to self-determination, deploring massive human rights abuses in Jammu & Kashmir, encouraging the Peace process between India and Pakistan and emphasising inclusion of Kashmiris in the Peace process. The Amnesty International released a latest Global report 2007 said in that there is many violence, torture, custodial deaths enforced disappearances and extra-judicial executions continued in Jammu & Kashmir in the year 2006.
Rape in war is not merely a matter of chance nor is it a question of sex. It is rather a question of power and control which is `structured by male soldiers’ notions of their masculine privilege. Kashmir is rising flame, which is increasing speedily. If United Nations, European Union and other world wide NGO’s do not succeeded in finding an acceptable solution with the participation of kashmiris, it will cause disaster for this part of South Asia. World powers and Global Institutions need to understand this burning issue.
The people of Kashmir demand an end to the military occupation of their land. Because they demand what they have been pledged by both India and Pakistan and guaranteed by the United Nations Security Council with the unequivocal endorsement of the United States, demilitrisation of Kashmir and a free plebiscite vote organised impartially.
Every Kashmiri is waiting anxiously for somebody to help attain freedom for them. I am a women so I understand feelings and emotions, inner voice of every Kashmiri woman.
#246 Posted by RiazHaq on June 17, 2009 5:07:03 pm
Re: # 243
For those of you interested in facts rather than spin, please take a look at this link: http://www.friendsofsouthasia.org/textbook/TextbookEdits.html
The edits attempted by Hindutva groups were by no means minor. That's why they were so hard fought.
What was being attempted was insertion of a set of white lies about the very origins of Hinduism in India, the fact that Hindus in India are as foreign as Arabs, central Asians and Muslims in India and there were attempts to whitewash systematic discrimination against and humiliation of dalits and women etc. etc.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide
For those of you interested in facts rather than spin, please take a look at this link: http://www.friendsofsouthasia.org/textbook/TextbookEdits.html
The edits attempted by Hindutva groups were by no means minor. That's why they were so hard fought.
What was being attempted was insertion of a set of white lies about the very origins of Hinduism in India, the fact that Hindus in India are as foreign as Arabs, central Asians and Muslims in India and there were attempts to whitewash systematic discrimination against and humiliation of dalits and women etc. etc.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide
#245 Posted by Regards on June 17, 2009 3:06:12 pm
#Kulharee Let us finish this Hindu/ muslim discussion once for all which I hijacks all reasonable dialogue.
Call your self Hindu and be still a Kalima recital Muslim as long you accept my right to have my eyes open and opinion on everything, as Quran itself tells all Muslims to do. I'll try persuading all the Hindu fellows admit that you can be Hindu too while being Muslim. If any Hindu on the Chowk has objections, please come forward now. Be my guest for dinner and explain me why it is not possible.
I feel the problem is that you can not do the same for me, however open minded you're with Muslims, even with great erudites of Chowk. I won't even dare attend the dinner, lest the dinner is me.
Call your self Hindu and be still a Kalima recital Muslim as long you accept my right to have my eyes open and opinion on everything, as Quran itself tells all Muslims to do. I'll try persuading all the Hindu fellows admit that you can be Hindu too while being Muslim. If any Hindu on the Chowk has objections, please come forward now. Be my guest for dinner and explain me why it is not possible.
I feel the problem is that you can not do the same for me, however open minded you're with Muslims, even with great erudites of Chowk. I won't even dare attend the dinner, lest the dinner is me.
#244 Posted by Kulharee on June 17, 2009 2:35:30 pm
Referring to Indian Mathematics as Hindu Mathematics is about as dumb as calling Quran the Muslim Flight Manual.
#243 Posted by fullyautomatix on June 17, 2009 1:41:52 pm
This ul-faq keeps harping on the California textbook case. I doubt whether he has read the edits and seen what was accepted or not. Basically, the demeaning portrait of Hinduism has been corrected. Most of the "edits" that were turned down were things like:
"Women had less rights than men in ancient India"
versus
"Women had different rights..."
Numerous rejected edits had to do with replacing "Brahman" as the supreme being with the word "Bhagawan", which even I agree with since "Bhagwan" is a Hindi-centric word, while Brahman is the word used in Sanskrit texts.
Finally, there were edits related to the issue of the Aryan invasion theory, which is also controversial to say the least.
None of this has anything to do with the theology of Hinduism. Most of the egregious and offensive misinterpretations of the theological and mythological aspects have been corrected. Only some of these historical and cultural aspects are in contention. And none of it has anything to do with muslims or islam, so not sure why this ullu is getting his knickers in a twist over it. Besides, the case isn't over yet; there is an appeal that is still ongoing.
In any case, the trend is clear. Hindus are slowly taking over the discourse on Hinduism and ancient India. Sankrant Sanu's Sulekha article on the Encarta nonsense was a watershed. The days of white men (and women like Wendy Donniger) who are outsiders to the faith dominating its narrative are numbered. Just as one sees many more Indian political commentators now for matters pertaining to India(Ashley Tellis, Samit Ganguly, Zakharia, Parag Khanna, Kapil Komireddi etc), the same will be true of Indian history, culture, and religion in another decade or so. The days of the Wolperts, Witzels, Wendys, and Courtrights are numbered. Once this racist and patronizing hierarchy is overthrown, the new inductees will play by the rules of the culture they are studying.
"Women had less rights than men in ancient India"
versus
"Women had different rights..."
Numerous rejected edits had to do with replacing "Brahman" as the supreme being with the word "Bhagawan", which even I agree with since "Bhagwan" is a Hindi-centric word, while Brahman is the word used in Sanskrit texts.
Finally, there were edits related to the issue of the Aryan invasion theory, which is also controversial to say the least.
None of this has anything to do with the theology of Hinduism. Most of the egregious and offensive misinterpretations of the theological and mythological aspects have been corrected. Only some of these historical and cultural aspects are in contention. And none of it has anything to do with muslims or islam, so not sure why this ullu is getting his knickers in a twist over it. Besides, the case isn't over yet; there is an appeal that is still ongoing.
In any case, the trend is clear. Hindus are slowly taking over the discourse on Hinduism and ancient India. Sankrant Sanu's Sulekha article on the Encarta nonsense was a watershed. The days of white men (and women like Wendy Donniger) who are outsiders to the faith dominating its narrative are numbered. Just as one sees many more Indian political commentators now for matters pertaining to India(Ashley Tellis, Samit Ganguly, Zakharia, Parag Khanna, Kapil Komireddi etc), the same will be true of Indian history, culture, and religion in another decade or so. The days of the Wolperts, Witzels, Wendys, and Courtrights are numbered. Once this racist and patronizing hierarchy is overthrown, the new inductees will play by the rules of the culture they are studying.
#242 Posted by laddu on June 17, 2009 1:25:47 pm
Regards ji,
I have already made claims to be the best of all the muslim submitters compared to any of the pakhandi Pakistanis!!
I have already made claims to be the best of all the muslim submitters compared to any of the pakhandi Pakistanis!!
#241 Posted by laddu on June 17, 2009 1:23:36 pm
Re: # 236
"Infact I am convinced that Laddu is far from being an idolator as he professes publicly. It is simply a provocation towards the inability for a muslim to say anything which Quran says. Infact muslim alumnus Riaz simply plays to muslim gallery and does'nt seem to know more than whatever he collects from net. So in such cases it is necessary that someone silences him."
quite perceptive. well understood regards ji!!
"Infact I am convinced that Laddu is far from being an idolator as he professes publicly. It is simply a provocation towards the inability for a muslim to say anything which Quran says. Infact muslim alumnus Riaz simply plays to muslim gallery and does'nt seem to know more than whatever he collects from net. So in such cases it is necessary that someone silences him."
quite perceptive. well understood regards ji!!
#240 Posted by laddu on June 17, 2009 12:58:40 pm
Tslking about text books I have show this shameless, bigotted Islami Jehad Alumni World wide president how his apologia for Islamism is the cause of Jehadi curriculum in Pakistani schools.
The bigoteed manner he is ignoring the SDPI report on the "Pakistan's Hate Curriculum" cleary shows his horrible Agenda of Hallalification of the muslim identity !!
The bigoteed manner he is ignoring the SDPI report on the "Pakistan's Hate Curriculum" cleary shows his horrible Agenda of Hallalification of the muslim identity !!
#239 Posted by laddu on June 17, 2009 12:53:47 pm
Re: # 233
"India is groping now for a national identity that would allow it to approach Pakistan with confidence, but there is no consensus on how to mesh India’s identity with that of Pakistan’'
It is like saying the American identity is as confuses viz-a-viz the Paki Islami identity.
This shows the confusion in Amaerican foreign policy of trying to see identities in through religious identities only.
as per this analyses american identity would be even more confusing viz-a-viz Pakistan. Atleast it is NOW with respect to many Islami countries like Iran , Iraq etc.
"India is groping now for a national identity that would allow it to approach Pakistan with confidence, but there is no consensus on how to mesh India’s identity with that of Pakistan’'
It is like saying the American identity is as confuses viz-a-viz the Paki Islami identity.
This shows the confusion in Amaerican foreign policy of trying to see identities in through religious identities only.
as per this analyses american identity would be even more confusing viz-a-viz Pakistan. Atleast it is NOW with respect to many Islami countries like Iran , Iraq etc.
#238 Posted by laddu on June 17, 2009 12:47:22 pm
Re: # 221
Goldfinger ji,
I am not saying something new. these news about atrocities on Pakistani Hindus and the de-sacriligement of theirreligious icons are all reported in the papers.
If you turn a blind eye towards them and support rabid Islamists like Riaz-ul-haq who is trying to promote sunnah complaint HALAL-Politics, then I can only fear for your ommission!!
Goldfinger ji,
I am not saying something new. these news about atrocities on Pakistani Hindus and the de-sacriligement of theirreligious icons are all reported in the papers.
If you turn a blind eye towards them and support rabid Islamists like Riaz-ul-haq who is trying to promote sunnah complaint HALAL-Politics, then I can only fear for your ommission!!
#237 Posted by khamkhwa on June 17, 2009 11:54:09 am
Riaz Haq sahab...please explain:
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide
iss ka matlab kya hai?
Thanks.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide
iss ka matlab kya hai?
Thanks.
#236 Posted by Regards on June 17, 2009 11:49:42 am
#225 tahmed32 I thought respons to your query Whether laddu can be considered a Hindu was implied in my respons that Hindu traditions accept that you may keep a different belief as long as you don't get in others ways so he very much Hindu. At least as much as any muslim in India who respects others. You can fully well criticize, discuss, though not as vehemently as on Chowk. Infact I am convinced that Laddu is far from being an idolator as he professes publicly. It is simply a provocation towards the inability for a muslim to say anything which Quran says. Infact muslim alumnus Riaz simply plays to muslim gallery and does'nt seem to know more than whatever he collects from net. So in such cases it is necessary that someone silences him.
Masadi is often right in political matters but gets emotional and forgets that most Americans (including you and Hamidm and many of family and friends) are doing what is good for your the safety of oyur own environment. They are not part of a concept like Ummah or communism to make sure that Pakis or Indians or progressing or not.
Now what we can do can be discussed, let us discuss on another thread in current affaires. Let us leave this to a very rate kind of subject on Chowk : Maths in old times in S. Asia and specially where we have from Afghanisatn till Kerala.
All Hindus/Indians and muslims/ Pakistanese, please take a serious note. If immediatley YOu don't leave this threat to a discussion on maths, I'll all become an atheist laddu or communist Masadi and start trashing you all. I've grduges as old as 40+ years. You can't beat me on that.
Unless of course pervez Hoodbhoy gets into his role of author and takes the thread forward in discussion. (Please stop looking for increasing number of interacts which is easy on Chowk on all subjects India vs Pakistan)- Regards
Masadi is often right in political matters but gets emotional and forgets that most Americans (including you and Hamidm and many of family and friends) are doing what is good for your the safety of oyur own environment. They are not part of a concept like Ummah or communism to make sure that Pakis or Indians or progressing or not.
Now what we can do can be discussed, let us discuss on another thread in current affaires. Let us leave this to a very rate kind of subject on Chowk : Maths in old times in S. Asia and specially where we have from Afghanisatn till Kerala.
All Hindus/Indians and muslims/ Pakistanese, please take a serious note. If immediatley YOu don't leave this threat to a discussion on maths, I'll all become an atheist laddu or communist Masadi and start trashing you all. I've grduges as old as 40+ years. You can't beat me on that.
Unless of course pervez Hoodbhoy gets into his role of author and takes the thread forward in discussion. (Please stop looking for increasing number of interacts which is easy on Chowk on all subjects India vs Pakistan)- Regards
#235 Posted by VRV on June 17, 2009 11:47:38 am
#228
I lost the argument? Yeah, in ur world.
As for Hindutva changing history, u quote California textbooks, since u cant Indian textbooks. Very educated argument, Pak Alumni Worldwide.
As for 233, U seem to have some comprehension problems. Lol!
Yeah, there's no uniform Hindu identity but there's this uniform world Muslim identity, moron.
I lost the argument? Yeah, in ur world.
As for Hindutva changing history, u quote California textbooks, since u cant Indian textbooks. Very educated argument, Pak Alumni Worldwide.
As for 233, U seem to have some comprehension problems. Lol!
Yeah, there's no uniform Hindu identity but there's this uniform world Muslim identity, moron.
#234 Posted by major on June 17, 2009 11:28:54 am
Re: # 223 GF
My point was simple to begin with - you pakis should save your outrage regarding condition of muslim lives in india or elsewhere - because you pakis are THE worst offenders in that department even though pakiland supposed to be have been created for muslims only... As far as I can see - muslims are better off in india than pakiland...
Deciding Right/Wrong and Riding moral high horses is a paki pastime - I usually stay away from such excercises...
As for Kashmir - We are defending against a brutal jihad... It's a war and in a war people die - civilian and otherwise... All I can say is - this is a war that has been thrust upon us and we have fought it with as best as possible under the circumstances...with as much caution and restraint as possible under the circumstances... we don't use gunships, we don't use fighter planes, we don't use white phspherous... you pakis do...
If you compare similar wars around the region - you can see that we have done comparatively well - 30K casualty over 20 years is not bad - americans killed 500K in iraq in 5 years, about 100K in afagnistan... and you pakis have surpassed all numbers combined...
So - save the outrage...
My point was simple to begin with - you pakis should save your outrage regarding condition of muslim lives in india or elsewhere - because you pakis are THE worst offenders in that department even though pakiland supposed to be have been created for muslims only... As far as I can see - muslims are better off in india than pakiland...
Deciding Right/Wrong and Riding moral high horses is a paki pastime - I usually stay away from such excercises...
As for Kashmir - We are defending against a brutal jihad... It's a war and in a war people die - civilian and otherwise... All I can say is - this is a war that has been thrust upon us and we have fought it with as best as possible under the circumstances...with as much caution and restraint as possible under the circumstances... we don't use gunships, we don't use fighter planes, we don't use white phspherous... you pakis do...
If you compare similar wars around the region - you can see that we have done comparatively well - 30K casualty over 20 years is not bad - americans killed 500K in iraq in 5 years, about 100K in afagnistan... and you pakis have surpassed all numbers combined...
So - save the outrage...
Interact Index
Latest Interacts
- bulleya: anil#: ...can you define... Uneven Democracy : The
- harish_hyd: Today's Pakistan IS Jinnah's... I Want Jinnah's Pakistan
- harish_hyd: If Karzai is a... Crowning of a Crony
- Pardesi: #36 - Your health... Uneven Democracy : The
- harish_hyd: #16 Posted by Goldfinger I... The Jehadi Frankenstein
- SPY: Re: # 49 ahmedmadani:... I Want Jinnah's Pakistan
- bhs75: well if NAB was... NRO Is Just a
- bhs75: Re: # 96 let me... The Strange Case of
